GHeissi Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) I don't know if it was posted yet, but the target modifier key now works. Before the patch you could not chain skills with it and had to wait additional ~250ms to be sure that the chained skill will affect your focus target (and not your active target). Now you can chain skills with the modifier key, my healer now became much more usefull in PvE instances, because I can target an enemy and do some damage/spell interrupts and heal my tank at the same time (I now heal the correct target and not myself). This bug was known since early beta (saw some post on reddit), finally it's gone. I think this had to do with the animations now starting when you press the button, but I'm not sure. Edited January 25, 2012 by GHeissi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archifikoss Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Just wanted to say... It's not just the very skilled, hardcore players that felt this ability delay. Even casual, average players like myself felt it, though it affected us less and we probably couldn't pin-point it as accurately as a hardcore player - at least I couldn't, it just felt more sluggish (apart from annoying misfires). I still feel that the combat could be smoothed up even more, but the patch has been a big step in the right direction as my Sniper's abilities flowed much better and felt quite a bit more responsive. It gives me hope that Bioware is taking their game very seriously, and will only improve it hugely from here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonvore Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) For all the people saying that they dont notice issues with Ability Delay or character responsiveness let me point out an easy example of this for anyone that has a smuggler. Take the ability Dirty Kick. Now simply stand in front of any NPC or PC (in a pvp setting) and use this ability. Now immediately after you press the key for this abillity try to move around behind the target. Surprise! You can't. Your character is stuck there for half a second to a second before you can move. I know this because i have a scoundrel and i constantly use Dirty Kick on opponents to stun them then move around behind them to get a Back Blast off. One of the effects of Dirty Kick is that it stuns the target for 4 seconds. Sweet!!! However its actually only like a 3 second stun because for almost a second you are locked in place and cannot move. Some may say "Oh big deal so you can't move for a second" but in PvP every second counts. This is just a simple example of what Xcore is talking about. Xcore thanks for all your time and efforts to bring this glaring issue to the forefront in the hopes that this will indeed be fixed!!!! Its the effort of people like you that bring clear, concise, substantiated issues and very succinctly present them to the user base as well as to the dev's that leads to the improvement of the games that we love!!!! Edited January 25, 2012 by Talonvore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeoHTime Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Out of interest, how many of the people reporting dramatic improvements are playing the smuggler/operative archetype? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archifikoss Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 For all the people saying that they dont notice issues with Ability Delay or character responsiveness let me point out an easy example of this for anyone that has a smuggler. Take the ability Dirty Kick. Now simply stand in front of any NPC or PC (in a pvp setting) and use this ability. Now immediately after you press the key for this abillity try to move around behind the target. Surprise! You can't. Your character is stuck there for half a second to a second before you can move. I know this because i have a scoundrel and i constantly use Dirty Kick on opponents to stun them then move around behind them to get a Back Blast off. One of the effects of Dirty Kick is that it stuns the target for 4 seconds. Sweet!!! However its actually only like a 3 second stun because for almost a second you are locked in place and cannot move. Some may say "Oh big deal so you can't move for a second" but in PvP every second counts. This is just a simple example of what Xcore is talking about. Xcore thanks for all your time and efforts to bring this glaring issue to the forefront in the hopes that this will indeed be fixed!!!! Its the effort of people like you that bring clear, concise, substantiated issues and very succinctly present them to the user base as well as to the dev's that leads to the improvement of the games that we love!!!! True this, I play a sniper but still use Debilitate (our version of dirty kick) liberally. On my Feral Druid in WoW TBC (post nerf), I'd learned to time my abilities well enough in both PvP and PvE so that I could take advantage of my talented Pounce opener and pull off a full FFF/Mangle/Shred (if I remember correctly - it's been a loooog time since I played WoW and let alone PvP'd in it) rotation before the stun ended because my Pounce would be "fire and forget"... This would not be the case in TOR at least pre-patch - and even if it's meant so by design, it still takes away from the "feeling" of the game. Still, it's improving! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHeissi Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) . By the way, you evil person with your damn dead pixel immitation. Edited January 25, 2012 by GHeissi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archifikoss Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 By the way, you evil person with your damn dead pixel immitation. Gone, but not forgotten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iResist Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) For all the people saying that they dont notice issues with Ability Delay or character responsiveness let me point out an easy example of this for anyone that has a smuggler. Take the ability Dirty Kick. Now simply stand in front of any NPC or PC (in a pvp setting) and use this ability. Now immediately after you press the key for this abillity try to move around behind the target. Surprise! You can't. Your character is stuck there for half a second to a second before you can move. I know this because i have a scoundrel and i constantly use Dirty Kick on opponents to stun them then move around behind them to get a Back Blast off. One of the effects of Dirty Kick is that it stuns the target for 4 seconds. Sweet!!! However its actually only like a 3 second stun because for almost a second you are locked in place and cannot move. Some may say "Oh big deal so you can't move for a second" but in PvP every second counts. This is just a simple example of what Xcore is talking about. Xcore thanks for all your time and efforts to bring this glaring issue to the forefront in the hopes that this will indeed be fixed!!!! Its the effort of people like you that bring clear, concise, substantiated issues and very succinctly present them to the user base as well as to the dev's that leads to the improvement of the games that we love!!!! That's not a bug or an ability delay, that is a feature of that ability.... how lame would it look to have your character sliding around with 1 leg on the ground while the other leg is in the air kicking? That is essentially what you want, to make the animation look incredibly awkward so you can move while the animation is playing. No matter how you try to re-work that animation, if you make it so that you can move while that animation plays, you will be sliding around with only 1 leg on the ground. Edited January 25, 2012 by iResist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WimploMartin Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 im a vanguard tank saw the patch was excited just for giggles thought they fixed everything like they said i tryed mortar volley.... i get 2 second delay for first reaction then 1 second delay off cast timer AFTER its finished thats 3 seconds and i play the game at 90+fps no lag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archifikoss Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 im a vanguard tank saw the patch was excited just for giggles thought they fixed everything like they said i tryed mortar volley.... i get 2 second delay for first reaction then 1 second delay off cast timer AFTER its finished thats 3 seconds and i play the game at 90+fps no lag That has to do with the ability's animation... To be fixed in a later patch I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stejo Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) That's not a bug or an ability delay, that is a feature of that ability.... how lame would it look to have your character sliding around with 1 leg on the ground while the other leg is in the air kicking? That is essentially what you want, to make the animation look incredibly awkward so you can move while the animation is playing. Yes, this is correct. Utility has precedence over aesthetics when it comes to gameplay. It's infinitely better to clip the animation and proceed to the next action instantly than standing there waiting for a useless animation to finish. You may think otherwise and not mind playing a sluggish game as long as the animations look pretty and there's nothing rushing you to perform the next action. At which point ppl will rightfully tell you that you're not playing at a competitive level. Then in turn you'll call them elitists and point them to WoW if they wanna be playing competitively. And then someone else will join the thread saying he never noticed any ability delay and the cycle shall continue. Edited January 25, 2012 by Stejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knockerz Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I don't know if they fixed it or not, but I been having problems with the cd animations not matching the actual cd timers. In game the cd animations for the buttons show it's ready, but when I try to activated it nothing happens and it's actually still on cd. In short, the button cd animations is not synchronized with the actual cd timer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeoHTime Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 That's not a bug or an ability delay, that is a feature of that ability. That's a really cool feature, they should give that feature to the Sith mirror class too. We don't want them to feel left out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyfeld Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 lol sounds about right. See, the problem with animation delay is that not all animations are created equal. If you create an ability that forces a delay in gameplay due to its animation, then on another character you create an ability that is functionally identical but has a shorter animation delay, you effectively create a disparity in the quality of each character's high tier play; one class becomes innately better than the other, whether it be in raiding or pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelKage Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Today, after i've read about the ability delay changes i have renewed my canceled subscription and boy i was surprised. Xcore, you should put a bigger sign, Bioware deserves it, the ability delay has been, for the majority of it and most of cases, FIXED. Yes this is a different game, pvp feels fluid and silky smooth 90% of the time. Even in the extreme low fps ( read 3 fps) environment of Ilum, abilities work instantly and without a hitch, even clicking on world objects ( example: speeder on Alderan Civil War faction ship ) resolves instantly and gets you on your merry way. There are still things to be addressed, some who are well written here by the op, some in other posts: - some abilities not activating at all for several key presses (ex: gunslinger's defensive skills while in cover , in hectic pvp environments) - inability to get in cover ( via crouch ) and the following error message "unknown effect result" (ex: taking cover while on ALL ledges, via crouch skill) - some animations not matching cast times Most if not all of the above, are acknowledged and are on their way to be fixed. Good job Bioware, the improvements in ability response times are great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calimwulf Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Yes, this is correct. Utility has precedence over aesthetics when it comes to gameplay. It's infinitely better to clip the animation and proceed to the next action instantly than standing there waiting for a useless animation to finish. You may think otherwise and not mind playing a sluggish game as long as the animations look pretty and there's nothing rushing you to perform the next action. At which point ppl will rightfully tell you that you're not playing at a competitive level. Then in turn you'll call them elitists and point them to WoW if they wanna be playing competitively. And then someone else will join the thread saying he never noticed any ability delay and the cycle shall continue. Sorry, but I don't PvP. I like the aesthetics. Maybe they'll chop the animation and make it all ugly for just you competitive types. That isn't 'sluggish' gameplay at all, from my perspective. It is one of the things that makes the game 'fun' for me because it makes sense. My toon just kicked a guy in his junk. It's balancing on one leg. I can understand that from your perspective you actually don't want any animations at all, but that's just plain, boring and ugly. The fact that your only 'stuck' there for a fraction of a second honestly doesn't make that toon competitive? That seems like a bit of a cop out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxPetexX Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I still have ability delay. It appears to be slightly less freqent but I still get it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stejo Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Sorry, but I don't PvP. I like the aesthetics. Maybe they'll chop the animation and make it all ugly for just you competitive types. That isn't 'sluggish' gameplay at all, from my perspective. It is one of the things that makes the game 'fun' for me because it makes sense. My toon just kicked a guy in his junk. It's balancing on one leg. I can understand that from your perspective you actually don't want any animations at all, but that's just plain, boring and ugly. The fact that your only 'stuck' there for a fraction of a second honestly doesn't make that toon competitive? That seems like a bit of a cop out. Ok, let me get slightly more technical then. You got an ability that is marked as instant. Yet when you use it, it plays a 0.5 sec animation and then fires it (or some times doesn't fire it at all). Why is this happening? The game is "cheating" during the animation time to communicate with the server, doublecheck with the recipient of the ability and if all checks out at the end of the animation the ability actually fires off and it registers. If something doesn't check out the ability won't fire off and depending on the order things happened it might trigger a gcd regardless or not. This is a technical limitation and frankly I have no clue how blizzard does it, it's a kind of magic. In any case, if pretty lengthy animations were a conscious design choice, then instant abilities should be firing off instantly and then let the animation play out before you can move on to the next ability while you're waiting for the gcd anyway. As it is now, there really is no excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairless Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The problem isn't fixed. It's only partially improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rendekar Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) A little bit offtopic maybe but animations still stutter like crazy. My first thread on this issue is now forgotten (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=82842) but I would like to remind you that not only animations are not in sync with casting but also some of them stutter. Here it is : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQmhYjkUqOU I am waiting for this to be removed before I level a JK or SW. Edited January 25, 2012 by Rendekar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonvore Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 That's not a bug or an ability delay, that is a feature of that ability.... how lame would it look to have your character sliding around with 1 leg on the ground while the other leg is in the air kicking? That is essentially what you want, to make the animation look incredibly awkward so you can move while the animation is playing. No matter how you try to re-work that animation, if you make it so that you can move while that animation plays, you will be sliding around with only 1 leg on the ground. No not at all. A kick animation should'nt take 1 or 2 seconds to play out. If you watch a boxing match or kick boxing when someone throws a punch or a kick it is lighting fast and you can miss it in the blink of an eye. That is from extension to retraction of the blow. There is no reason why you should have to stand there for a second rooted, it almost defeats the purpose of the ability for some people. You can have a fairly lighnting fast kick animation that doesnt require a full second afterwards for you to be able to move your character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samborino Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 What are you talking a about? This thread is the reason this is getting fixed at all... How was this already fixed? Today was the first day of "fixing", this thread has been around for over 3 weeks... raising awareness and attention to it... This thread gave this entire Issue a name... Ability Delay and Character Responsiveness would not even be terms used by Bioware right now... How can you say thousands of people voicing their thoughts, opinions, analysis, rage, advise has been a waste? How can you claim it was already fixed? Why would you say that its over now, just because Bioware made a statement? Why would you not continue to be critical and evaluate objectively? I don't understand you, how can you slap thousands of people in the face, people trying to make this game better for everyone... Objectively better... With clear minds and true knowledge and experience . I wish i could show you where this game would be and this patch would be without this threadline and all the support it has had... Also I with we could look into the future 1-2 years, one future with this threadline and one without. People like this are so ******* frustrating.... I think you might be taking just a tad too much credibility there. I appreciate all the work this thread has done, but if i was using an ability in the game, and i noticed there was a delay i would call it an ability delay and people talk about character responsiveness in lots of games. These arent terms you made up and im sure they would be terms bioware would have used if they had noticed the problem themselves (and they very well may have). I know your proud of your thread, i can see it in your signature, but come on you didnt coin these terms for the mmo community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papzz Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Think the ability delay is an issue in PVP? Try tanking in PVE and see how frustrated and angry you get when sometimes dodging an attack (annimation kicks in) stops you from using any ability (instant or otherwise) e.g. charge, interrupt, taunt etc for anything upto a few seconds. Imagine being in a situation where you are rotating interrupts with another player and then suddenly cant because you've dodged. Imagine trying to taunt a mob off a healer or another player and cant because you've dodged an attack. This issue is compounded by the fact that the dodge annimation doesnt always cause a problem. So i can dodge 1 attack and be fine and then dodge another attack and then have the issue. Hell, its not as if i can predict when im going to dodge an attack and plan accordingly. Talk about being screwed by RNG. As it stands, this particular issue is completely out of the hands of the player and doesnt appear to be tied into another ability. It needs addressing urgently and i hope for the sake of this games integrity that bug fixes are going to take priority before new content or classs nerfs due to PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrecklessMEDIC Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Some people will just never be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eighthook Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 @Xcore Please ignore all the other @Xcore posts as they eat up your time and effort that you put forth to see this issue get fixed. Most of them are just trolls and should be flagged for spam/rude comment. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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