Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Xcore]

There you go Xcore, I fixed your statement for you.

 

Level 49 Marauder here. Still no delay or clunky feeling at all. In my opinion, the game runs great, and very responsive. I do hope they clear up your issue. I sincerly do. I want you guys to experience SWTOR just like the rest of us.

 

Welcome back Klarick, it isn't actually an opinion that a car with an Input delay and pulling to the left feels sluggish and unresponsive... sorry.

 

 

 

 

You've been away for a little while, please go back a few pages and reply to my posts picking them apart as they are not only full of logical fallacies but I also (painfully clearly) have a personal agenda to be popular and simply refuse to give up my 15 minutes of fame.

 

Also, I am a troll (as you no doubt already know)... All of this was a huge troll mission lol! There never was anything wrong with SW:TOR... There Is no such thing as "Ability Delay", SW:TOR was always far more responsive and felt far better than WoW.

 

 

Through your unwavering, righteous justice. Klarick, you have brought me down... exposed me for the fraud that I am... I thank you, for now I am at peace.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Xcore

[Mortalha]

Keep in mind though that your very example of Street Fighter in fact illustrates the difference between "ability delay" and "animations". If you execute a Shoryuken with Ryu (using a Fierce punch,, you have committed to that attack. You cannot decide 0.05 seconds later that in fact you wanted to do a low sweep instead - you must wait for the attack to finish.

 

That said, the misleading aspect of SW:TOR is that it has both "animation lock" and "GCD lock". In my opinion (and at least one other person mentioned it already) SW:TOR really does need to settle on either one or the other - not both. If they want to be a GCD-based game, fine. They can do that as long as the animations fit within that GCD and that if your animation is 0.5 seconds, then your ability should be marked as having a 0.5 second cast. Alternatively they could use an animations-based system and the game would possibly resemble a fighting game instead. But trying to do both is a responsiveness nightmare - the UI does not give enough proper feedback to either GCD-based or animation-based combat for anyone to be satisfied with either. Essentially, the player doesn't know if he should listen to the GCD, or if he should instead watch animations. Since the GCD viewpoint is predominant, the player expects that he can take a next action after the GCD is finished. He cannot. Hence, ability delay.

 

But, I think that animation-based is a perfectly valid design as well (though probably not for TOR).

 

Pretty much this...

 

Tho, if they want keep animations. Give instant abilities a cast time (duration of the animation) and make them "castable" while runing. That should fix it.

keep all animations and people just learn to play with "instants" with 0,5 secs cast and 1 sec etc

 

Keep the GCD for the REAL instant abilities, if theres any.

[Terko_Koslah]

I was reading another thread and got to thinking the cause of the ability delay. And it somehow seems convenient that Bioware has made strategy roleplaying games and in those games the responsiveness doesn't have to be as instant as in any modern mmo or a fps and so we have some kind of clunky system here...

[Xcore]

Pretty much this...

 

Tho, if they want keep animations. Give instant abilities a cast time (duration of the animation) and make them "castable" while runing. That should fix it.

keep all animations and people just learn to play with "instants" with 0,5 secs cast and 1 sec etc

 

Keep the GCD for the REAL instant abilities, if theres any.

 

This imo would be a terrible system for an action based MMO... It takes away speed, reflex and reaction times... clutch twitch reactions. I think the combat system itself (based on GCD not animations) is the reason WoW has had such a success in precision and competitive PvP such as MLG Tournaments etc.

 

But also i think the combat system being as described above is generally a more successful one for MMOs. I think greater immediate control is important, I would never be happy being "locked", as in because im "casting x ability" I cannot move for .5 seconds etc.

 

This just leads to a feeling of disconnect from my Avatar to the point that I feel like I am "playing" or "directing" my Avatar instead of "being" him/her. I think people need to realize this entire topic, OP and threadline is essentially about the feeling of absolute and seamless connection to the avatar.

[Trucegore]

The point is in street fighter and any fighting game responsiveness is huge, near complete perfection. When you hit a button it happens... Immediately... there Is no .2 delay. You're not understanding the threadline and arguement. It isnt about the Grenade "immediately" hitting the targer without traveltime...

 

Yes it is if you want how wow does it. Damage is applied completely detached from any animation. They also do not have a unique animation per ability.

 

You damage before you throw the punch.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Trucegore

[Xcore]

I was reading another thread and got to thinking the cause of the ability delay. And it somehow seems convenient that Bioware has made strategy roleplaying games and in those games the responsiveness doesn't have to be as instant as in any modern mmo or a fps and so we have some kind of clunky system here...

 

Yes, that is obviously the logical conclusion... For the same reason I can comfortably guarantee that Project Titan will feel just as responsive as WoW or even moreso...

 

It's ok to make mistakes for Bioware in their first MMO and perhaps first game that fosters serious, competitive levels of PvP... as long as they are able and willing to correct and change based on more experienced people/players feedback and suggestions.

[DirtyDozen]

There you go Xcore, I fixed your statement for you.

 

Level 49 Marauder here. Still no delay or clunky feeling at all. In my opinion, the game runs great, and very responsive. I do hope they clear up your issue. I sincerly do. I want you guys to experience SWTOR just like the rest of us.

 

Georg has acknowledged the issue exists. And he has credited the input, feedback, and videos for nailing down the problem. Where do you think that came from? It came from this thread.

 

All you have done in this thread is attack Xcore. It's not helpful and you're just trolling this thread. You should just stop reading it if you have no problem.

 

I'm glad the people that have helped get this problem recognized haven't given up.

[Xcore]

Yes it is if you want how wow does it. Damage is applied completely detached from any animation. They also do not have a unique animation per ability.

 

You damage before you throw the punch.

 

Yes and this Is how SW:TOR works, is trying to work but failing a bit... The Grenade does its damage before it hits example.... etc.

 

I wish people would realize that SW:TOR is not trying anything fancy new in terms of combat, it is exactly WoW combat... only due to some developer inexperience and still trying to work things out AND the attempt to make combat look a bit better through more elaborate animations it failed a little... and Is being corrected to be more "fun" as is widely being reported already (more fixes needed and coming though)

 

WoWs animations are rather simplistic and crappy, also same animations for many spells and abilities. However, WoWs combat is amazingly responsive AND they mask the "ugly" animations through elaborate particle effects and sparkles etc.

[Xcore]

Georg has acknowledged the issue exists. And he has credited the input, feedback, and videos for nailing down the problem. Where do you think that came from? It came from this thread.

 

All you have done in this thread is attack Xcore. It's not helpful and you're just trolling this thread. You should just stop reading it if you have no problem.

 

I'm glad the people that have helped get this problem recognized haven't given up.

 

Never giving up because like you, I love SW:TOR too much and want It to be my home for years and years. If all goes well it'll be the biggest MMO within 3 years or so.

 

I'll see Klarick in Thread 9 or 11 or 100 again gladly if that is what it takes to make SW:TOR as amazing as it has the potential to be

Edited January 26, 2012 by Xcore

[novaace]

I don't know why people say it is gone. It is in fact worst than before. It is not the animation. The most obvious description is that you sometimes don't die after you are dead for a few second. To the server, you are dead and therefore you can't move or do anything, but the client stills see you are alive as the server has not signal the client that you are dead until some seconds later.

 

The happens to ability too, and it is a nightmare for gunslinger. Cover followed by an ability that requires cover fails often. To top that off, cover triggers "charge shot" to be instant, but it never works unless you wait for .5 second before you use charge shot. In other words, it is more like "make your next or next next charge shot to be instant."

 

Cover followed by rapid fire will trigger the animation and channel bar to play, but no damage done or trigger its CD. Because the animation is played, user will think that it has been fired where it is not. Spamming rapid fire will fix it, but the channel bar will be off as it is based on the first rapid fire trigger, not the one that actually fired.

 

Cover followed by aim shot is the worst, as the animation as 2 parts, the charge and the shot as well as the cast bar. The charge and the cast bar was played immediately, but the shot animation is never played as the shot won't get fired. This is worst than rapid fire because you spamming doesn't fix it as you can't use another ability while you are casting one. Unfortunately, the casting bar was incorrect as the ability was never triggered at the server side, meaning that to others, you simply covered and did nothing for the duration of the rapid fire.

 

Illegal mods (as well as abilities from relics) takes a long time(like 0.5 second, sometimes longer) before it kicks in. This is visible as your immediately spell is not likely to be an instant spell.

 

All of the above can be easily reproduced, and rapid fire doesn't trigger CD sometimes after 1.1b, meaning that the animation is played, but no damage done when it is used after another ability as the ability is ready to use on client side at the time user use it, but to server, it isn't ready yet.

[veevito]

I think the issue is getting muddied again.

 

I'm not sure that anyone is arguing for an unresponsove, sluggish etc system as is sometimes alluded to. There are certainly issues that need to be tightened up still in TOR. Perhaps coming up with new naming conventions for skills since some of them don't adhere to what some consider to be true instant abilities. Basically giving the players a better understanding of how their system is intended to work. What is actually unintended delay that is being worked on and what isn't.

 

However, I think it is useful to point out that a system that includes full length animations, even roots or locks that adhere to either GCD or cast timers, doesn't inherently make that game bad or not worthy of a competetive environment. It only makes it different. It becomes an issue if it isn't implemented very precisely, is buggy in that it doesn't apply to all players (mirror classes) or is confusing to players because they don't know what takes priority on any given skill, the CD or animation etc...

 

That type of system, animation locking, can certainly support competitve play as long as the rules apply to all players consistently and everyone understands those rules going in. And, yes, I think interrupts are the exception to this in that they should always fire when needed. It may be slower paced and less twitchy (not intended as a negative), and that may make it a game that doesn't suit your tastes and that's fine, but that's about where it ends.

 

A good example is the smuggler video that is in the OP, not sure if it's still there. The whole charged burst > thermal grenade issue if I remember correctly....maybe someone else just brought it up as an example elsewhere. Anyway, It was posted as an example of how the game is broken because you have to wait for CB to finish its animation before a thermal grenade can be thrown. I'm not so sure that's unintended. Maybe it is, but it seems like a good example of a different style of play rather than something that is broken. Thermal grenade isn't an interrupt, so why should it interrupt CB? you've commited to CB, so see it through. Some don't like it though and that's their opinion.

 

A big problem arises if the gameplay design intent isn't communicated clearly for players to understand before they go into the game. Because they WILL be coming in with preconceived notions of how things should be and be royally pissed and call your system broken when they find out it's different.

 

The only reason I made this post was because I think the waters are getting a bit muddied again by lumping legitimate delay issues that need to be addressed in with "possibly" intended game mechanics(animation lock that some don't like) and calling the whole thing broken. When in reality, half of the criticism is true and needs to addressed, but the other half is pure opinion spewed out as fact.

[Mortalha]

I think the issue is getting muddied again.

 

I'm not sure that anyone is arguing for an unresponsove, sluggish etc system as is sometimes alluded to. There are certainly issues that need to be tightened up still in TOR. Perhaps coming up with new naming conventions for skills since some of them don't adhere to what some consider to be true instant abilities. Basically giving the players a better understanding of how their system is intended to work. What is actually unintended delay that is being worked on and what isn't.

 

However, I think it is useful to point out that a system that includes full length animations, even roots or locks that adhere to either GCD or cast timers, doesn't inherently make that game bad or not worthy of a competetive environment. It only makes it different. It becomes an issue if it isn't implemented very precisely, is buggy in that it doesn't apply to all players (mirror classes) or is confusing to players because they don't know what takes priority on any given skill, the CD or animation etc...

 

That type of system, animation locking, can certainly support competitve play as long as the rules apply to all players consistently and everyone understands those rules going in. And, yes, I think interrupts are the exception to this in that they should always fire when needed. It may be slower paced and less twitchy (not intended as a negative), and that may make it a game that doesn't suit your tastes and that's fine, but that's about where it ends.

 

A good example is the smuggler video that is in the OP, not sure if it's still there. The whole charged burst > thermal grenade issue if I remember correctly....maybe someone else just brought it up as an example elsewhere. Anyway, It was posted as an example of how the game is broken because you have to wait for CB to finish its animation before a thermal grenade can be thrown. I'm not so sure that's unintended. Maybe it is, but it seems like a good example of a different style of play rather than something that is broken. Thermal grenade isn't an interrupt, so why should it interrupt CB? you've commited to CB, so see it through. Some don't like it though and that's their opinion.

 

A big problem arises if the gameplay design intent isn't communicated clearly for players to understand before they go into the game. Because they WILL be coming in with preconceived notions of how things should be and be royally pissed and call your system broken when they find out it's different.

 

The only reason I made this post was because I think the waters are getting a bit muddied again by lumping legitimate delay issues that need to be addressed in with "possibly" intended game mechanics(animation lock that some don't like) and calling the whole thing broken. When in reality, half of the criticism is true and needs to addressed, but the other half is pure opinion spewed out as fact.

 

Yes it is broken... Having to press one skill for over 5 times, even not spaming and respecting the gcd each time, the skill isnt performed, no dmg no nothing.

Does the animation, like 3 secs channeled, after 3 seconds you realise it didnt work, repeat 5 times, its 15 sec + each gcd. Almost half minute trying to use a skill and not working is unacceptable.

 

Uninstaled it today. After geting a mission to take off some bombs some bad guys were putting in boxes in the midle of the street, and people were dying because of that. I go to the mission spot and what I see. Boxes with bombs but with the bad guys standing near the boxes. IF THERES BAD GUYS THERE, PEOPLE WOULDNT EVEN GO AND USE THE BOXES DUDES. So no one would die, aka mission not needed.

Whatever.. my english sucks but this game sucks more.

 

Burned out...

 

See you guys in Diablo 3

[Xcore]

That type of system, animation locking, can certainly support competitve play as long as the rules apply to all players consistently and everyone understands those rules going in. And, yes, I think interrupts are the exception to this in that they should always fire when needed. It may be slower paced and less twitchy (not intended as a negative), and that may make it a game that doesn't suit your tastes and that's fine, but that's about where it ends.

 

A good example is the smuggler video that is in the OP, not sure if it's still there. The whole charged burst > thermal grenade issue if I remember correctly....maybe someone else just brought it up as an example elsewhere. Anyway, It was posted as an example of how the game is broken because you have to wait for CB to finish its animation before a thermal grenade can be thrown. I'm not so sure that's unintended. Maybe it is, but it seems like a good example of a different style of play rather than something that is broken. Thermal grenade isn't an interrupt, so why should it interrupt CB? you've commited to CB, so see it through. Some don't like it though and that's their opinion.

 

A big problem arises if the gameplay design intent isn't communicated clearly for players to understand before they go into the game. Because they WILL be coming in with preconceived notions of how things should be and be royally pissed and call your system broken when they find out it's different.

 

The only reason I made this post was because I think the waters are getting a bit muddied again by lumping legitimate delay issues that need to be addressed in with "possibly" intended game mechanics(animation lock that some don't like) and calling the whole thing broken. When in reality, half of the criticism is true and needs to addressed, but the other half is pure opinion spewed out as fact.

 

Firstly, why doesn't a Bioware employee clear these things up and tell us what system Is really Intended?

 

Secondly, I disagree, a system where you are "locked" up because of animation cannot be competitive in an MMO environment on the levels that a system such as WoW can be.

 

Just because both parties lag, are locked up, cannot see colors but only black and white... the screen goes black for 3 sec every 10 sec or whatever else... does not make It equal and able to be competitive.

 

 

You need to understand that In a system where everyone lags or abilities are delayed or people are unable to perform actions because they're locked into an animation... it lowers the overall skill cap amd Introduces frustration and RNG factors.

 

In this type of environment, a bad player and an amazing player are very close together in terms of potential. In a system that is 100% responsive to input without limitations and everything is smooth, a bad player has no hope against an amazing player, thus WoW is able to introduce MMOs to eSports and no other MMO can.

 

Just because everyone has to deal with the same flaws in the system does not make It so that its an even playingfield. The better players are artificially brought down by a slow, unreliable, unresponsive system while at the same time this benefits and elevates players who are not so good.

 

The issue discussed here is on many levels damaging, one is the potential for complexity In PvE Endgame, one is the SkillCap in PvP amd yet another is the feeling of connection and immersion In RP... everything is affected by this foundation of Avatar Responsiveness and Gameplay Feel.

 

Saying that its all good as long as the system is equal for everyone is false and does not go deep enough into all areas of repercussions.

[Adam_Nox]

Are some of you saying you should be able to interrupt a moves animation that you've already benefitted from it's effect in order to do another move? That's stupid. CoH has much more precise system than WoW, just as responsive, and instead of a GCD each move has an animation time balanced against other powers. It's called damage per activation.

 

Now I'm not saying they intended to do that here, or have balanced things around it, but they can. And WoW probably didn't WANT people to interrupt animations, that mechanic was likely accidental as it is in most mmos where animations can be cancelled.

 

Saying you can't have a competitive game where different moves have different activation times that root or disable you from doing anything else is really really dumb. It makes things more competitive and tactical.

 

If this isn't what you are saying, then disregard.

[veevito]

Firstly, why doesn't a Bioware employee clear these things up and tell us what system Is really Intended?

 

Secondly, I disagree, a system where you are "locked" up because of animation cannot be competitive in an MMO environment on the levels that a system such as WoW can be.

 

Just because both parties lag, are locked up, cannot see colors but only black and white... the screen goes black for 3 sec every 10 sec or whatever else... does not make It equal and able to be competitive.

 

 

You need to understand that In a system where everyone lags or abilities are delayed or people are unable to perform actions because they're locked into an animation... it lowers the overall skill cap amd Introduces frustration and RNG factors.

 

In this type of environment, a bad player and an amazing player are very close together in terms of potential. In a system that is 100% responsive to input without limitations and everything is smooth, a bad player has no hope against an amazing player, thus WoW is able to introduce MMOs to eSports and no other MMO can.

 

Just because everyone has to deal with the same flaws in the system does not make It so that its an even playingfield. The better players are artificially brought down by a slow, unreliable, unresponsive system while at the same time this benefits and elevates players who are not so good.

 

The issue discussed here is on many levels damaging, one is the potential for complexity In PvE Endgame, one is the SkillCap in PvP amd yet another is the feeling of connection and immersion In RP... everything is affected by this foundation of Avatar Responsiveness and Gameplay Feel.

 

Saying that its all good as long as the system is equal for everyone is false and does not go deep enough into all areas of repercussions.

 

I agree BW should clear it up and tell me i'm wrong or you're partially right or whatever regarding what's intended for their animation "cinematic" combat which I like.

 

But you did it again. You ascribed things to me that i never said. You're equating my position on animation lock with me being ok with lag, delay, black and white colors you said? ok...

 

You do that sometimes. It is your opinion that twitch and only twitch can be competitive or the most competetive. That's an opinion, not a fact as you so often claim. I don't know how else to say it to you. I know you will disagree.

 

Lag, inpout delay, syncing animations to cast bars etc... all must be cleaned up, but animation lock for abilities does not fall into those categories. And some of the animations can be broken out of by moving if you want.

 

Once again, I guess i'll leave it at that.

[venifacus]

problem is fixed. Edited January 26, 2012 by venifacus

[Mandrax]

problem is fixed.

 

It isn't. It's slightly improved, but it definitely isn't fixed.

[Eighthook]

It isn't. It's slightly improved, but it definitely isn't fixed.

 

He knows that he's just a troll

[Xcore]

I agree BW should clear it up and tell me i'm wrong or you're partially right or whatever regarding what's intended for their animation "cinematic" combat which I like.

 

But you did it again. You ascribed things to me that i never said. You're equating my position on animation lock with me being ok with lag, delay, black and white colors you said? ok...

 

You do that sometimes. It is your opinion that twitch and only twitch can be competitive or the most competetive. That's an opinion, not a fact as you so often claim. I don't know how else to say it to you. I know you will disagree.

 

Lag, inpout delay, syncing animations to cast bars etc... all must be cleaned up, but animation lock for abilities does not fall into those categories. And some of the animations can be broken out of by moving if you want.

 

Once again, I guess i'll leave it at that.

 

No, don't get me wrong I agree 100% that the sync issues, input or execution delay etc. are completely separate from animations locking the avatar down...

 

But I disagree that animation lockdown or animation > player Input is a system that can offer competitive play. My reasoning behind listing the black/white, screen blackout, delay, lockdown all together Is to showcase that although completely different issues, they all are flaws in supporting competitive gameplay in an MMO and just because "all players" suffer these, it does not make It equal...

 

As i continue to explain further in my previous post, just like a screen blackout every 10 sec or just being able to se in black/white or everyone having 2000 ping or input delay etc. etc. these issues, drag down better players artificially and elevate lesser players artificially as the skillcap is reduced severly.

 

This is why I am against animation lockdown and prioritization... it doesn't equally affect good amd bad players even if both type of players have to deal with It. Furthermore it lowers the SkillCap In PvP and PvE for that matter.

 

 

I love SW:TOR animations and wish they could make it as smooth as WoW while keeping superior animations but of any such choice "ever" has to be made, gameplay should always win because gameplay is the basis of potential for everything that follows... while animations after a while are meaningless.

[Uuhwee]

slightly improved? Hmm i didnt recognize a slight improvement.

 

What i recognized is that even the players pictures are extremly delayed when you switch targets.

 

I got a BH as target and then i switch to a sith sorcerer (for example).

It takes about 2-3 secs until the picture is "updated".

 

Sorry but this is bul.l.s.h.it!! And no its not my system, its the engine or what ever.

Im getting tired of it.

[Putok]

Thats bad, its shows a lack of animation sync... It gives of a clunky feeling...

 

I agree. Animations still need a lot of work. I was just demonstrating that animations are not prioritized over ability execution in this case.

 

I think a lot of the residual clunky feeling at this point is the result of poor animation/SCT/sound feedback to the player.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Putok

[Xcore]

I agree. Animations still need a lot of work. I was just demonstrating that animations are prioritized over ability execution in this case.

 

I think a lot of the residual clunky feeling at this point is the result of poor animation/SCT/sound feedback to the player.

 

Yes, but I am actually quite confident that although laborious, its easier to address. Animations/Sound and Effect Sync needs to be perfect to avoid the weird bad feeling that contributes to unresponsivness.

 

I really want to emphasize what you mention here, SCT (Combat Text), currently it Is sometimes way off (especially on channeled abilities and rotations). This is an important fact to the feeling, of must be precise... please note In my video how incredibly precise WoW is in terms of Animation/Sound amd Effect Sync as well as SCT accuracy... (especially noticeable in the rotations parts with mage, hunter).

[Putok]

Yes, but I am actually quite confident that although laborious, its easier to address. Animations/Sound and Effect Sync needs to be perfect to avoid the weird bad feeling that contributes to unresponsivness.

 

I really want to emphasize what you mention here, SCT (Combat Text), currently it Is sometimes way off (especially on channeled abilities and rotations). This is an important fact to the feeling, of must be precise... please note In my video how incredibly precise WoW is in terms of Animation/Sound amd Effect Sync as well as SCT accuracy... (especially noticeable in the rotations parts with mage, hunter).

 

Typo there, I meant "are not" instead of "are".

 

I've played WoW since it released, and raided seriously in vanilla, and more casually ever since. I'd kill to have combat that polished in this game.

 

One thing I want to say, is that a lot of people have criticized WoW's animations, some even claiming that they are out of sync with damage done. That is ABSOLUTELY NOT the case. WoW's animations very consistently provide absolutely superb feedback to the player. I have to spend a lot more time looking at my action bars and buffs/debuff in this game than I do in WoW, simply because some of that feedback is missing. Rather than being able to watch my character's animation to know whether or not abilities have worked properly, I have to look at his action bars, and buff/debuff bars.

 

I definitely can be fixed. No one is asking for animations to be removed, or made irrelevant. In fact, I think they should be made MORE relevant to combat than they currently are. At the moment, sounds and animations do not provide good feedback to the player in most cases, which is definitely a contributor to the feeling of clunky gameplay, and something that should be high up on the list after technical issues causing responsiveness problems (delay, abilities not firing, cast bars being wrong, GCD being wrong, "stuttering" causing abilities to fail, "effect condition failed", etc) are rectified.

[Putok]

Here is a demonstration of SCT lag. Vicious Slash is an especially bad culprit. If you look at target HP bars, it often deals damage as much as a second before SCT indicates the damage happening. The "stutter" bug with retaliation is also seen near the end of the video.

 

[Mutica]

Here is a demonstration of SCT lag. Vicious Slash is an especially bad culprit. If you look at target HP bars, it often deals damage as much as a second before SCT indicates the damage happening. The "stutter" bug with retaliation is also seen near the end of the video.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0m9A...ature=youtu.be

 

The stutter bug is absolutely game breaking for me as a shadow dps... shadow strike constantly stutters. Honestly, the stutter happen for me fairly often. I'm glad they are paying attention to it now... but for the life of me I can't understand how you release a game with these types of playability issues. I am trying very hard to be optimistic, but I think they really blew an opportunity during their first month of 'meet and greet', I think this may just end up being another niche mmo... I really wanted this to be the next big thing and a huge success for Bioware.