Do you report offensive behavior that occurs in general chat?

[fourarrows]

If you break the posted rules that you agreed to when you installed the game, you should not be surprised or annoyed if/when you get reported for breaking the rules. Why is it up to the people not violating the terms of service to look away when offensive material is said in general chat?

 

Just because you bought the game and pay your monthly fee does not give you the right to say what you want when you want. It means you get to play the game in the way, and within the rules intended by the designers.

 

I can remove people from a group for offensive language or behavior, people can be removed from a guild for offensive language or behavior, why not remove them from general chat for the same things by reporting them.

 

I do agree with the OP that we should not nit pick every single word, or try and be the word police. But blatant and repeated violations do and will continue to be reported. I feel that if more people did this that one of two things would happen in the SWTOR community.

 

1) Offensive players would learn that that type of language should be kept in channels other then general and we would not see it as much.

 

2) Offensive players would get tired of being banned and roll on a server that does not monitor chat.

 

Either solution is fine with me.

[Kabjat]

Original poster, I'm sorry to say it but you are one of those 'busy bodies.' You are also not laid back.

 

So speaking one's mind on a topic makes one a busy body? Speaking out against filth in public makes one uptight?

 

Wanting people to follow the rules in a game that they AGREED to do so makes me a killjoy? (someone else earlier in the thread called me that...I guess being told to stop spewing hate speech ruins someone's fun)

 

Riiiight. If that's the case, I really don't care if I ruin their 'fun'.

[Uluain]

I'm on an RP server so generally /1 is pretty good. People actually use it to socialize and they type properly "not lyk dis". Alot of people tend to take unkindly to people with names like "awesomedude" and report them, and they also jump down the throats of people that show even the slightest bit of troll in them (which is kinda good in a way)

Well, I play on an RP server as well, but remember that even on RP servers there are no special naming guidelines. Awesomedude may get put on my /ignore list, especially if he is talking trash, but I don't report the name.

 

So far, I have not submitted a single ticket. Not because I don't do that when warranted, but because so far, when I have politely asked folks to avoid a phrase that does get right under my skin and make me seethe (namely, using "gay" as an all-purpose pejorative), people have actually responded.

 

That polite request is always the first step. Making it, and then seeing the problematic behavior continue, is when I submit a ticket.

 

Things to note in a ticket: The issue, the time, channel, server and instance (Coruscant 1 or what have you), the character login(s) of the offender(s), and that one requested politely the the offender desist, that the request was ignored (or mocked, or trolled) and that one understands and is using /ignore.

 

That gives Bioware the info they need to find the incident in the logs and to evaluate it accordingly.

 

I do recommend RP servers to mature players whether they RP or not as having in general a more polite community. No one is required to roleplay. All that is required is that those who do roleplay are allowed to do so without harrassment.

 

And you better believe that the moment I encounter RP griefers on my RP server, it will in fact be reported.

[Kabjat]

I again ask you to please outline the TOS and EULA that states being offensive is against those terms.

 

Alas! Someone has pointed them out!

There's the thing though, sexist, and racist. Other comments are of free reign, no? So since you are not specifying what comments these are, then how are we to suppose that those comments are racist, and/or sexist? What if these people using these "derogatory" comments were they themselves, that race speaking to another of that race? The list goes on, and on.

 

Examples

 

the "C" word is derogatory for what it stands for, yet it is an appropriate part of the feminine body however it is not in any way sexist.

 

the "N" word is derogatory for what it stands for towards a certain race, yet those of that race use it freely between one another.

 

the "B" word is "derogatory" for what it stands for towards a woman, however it's not sexist it simply stands for again something "Derogatory" but in real life it's simply a dog in heat.

 

These are all examples that have different meanings, that users take out of context because they decide to do so, and thus find it offensive.

 

Now granted this is all TOS, and EULA related sure, but the two words related to a female are in no way sexist, or racist. So the nitty gritty is what's so offending that is violating those terms?

 

@fourarrows

 

So basically the grammar police would roll on Server A, holding 25% of the SWTOR population, and the offensive brothers in arms would roll on Server B, holding 75% of the SWTOR community.

 

I serve in the U.S. Navy there are many a thing you've never seen, heard, or done that those of us will. That includes fighting for these freedoms we are debating.

 

 

You miss the point. Again.

 

If there's a question of whether or not your statement may be construed as inflammatory why would you even say it?

 

If you wish to engage in this type of behavior, do it in a private channel. I am seriously grasping at how else I can explain it so you will understand.

 

Read the Rules of Conduct. If you cannot differentiate offensive and unacceptable from speech that is acceptable then you probably shouldn't be using the internet.

 

it's all outlined right here. Please. Read it. http://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/rulesofconduct

Edited January 24, 2012 by Kabjat

[Subatia]

Well, I play on an RP server as well, but remember that even on RP servers there are no special naming guidelines. Awesomedude may get put on my /ignore list, especially if he is talking trash, but I don't report the name.

 

So far, I have not submitted a single ticket. Not because I don't do that when warranted, but because so far, when I have politely asked folks to avoid a phrase that does get right under my skin and make me seethe (namely, using "gay" as an all-purpose pejorative), people have actually responded.

 

That polite request is always the first step. Making it, and then seeing the problematic behavior continue, is when I submit a ticket.

 

Things to note in a ticket: The issue, the time, channel, server and instance (Coruscant 1 or what have you), the character login(s) of the offender(s), and that one requested politely the the offender desist, that the request was ignored (or mocked, or trolled) and that one understands and is using /ignore.

 

That gives Bioware the info they need to find the incident in the logs and to evaluate it accordingly.

 

I do recommend RP servers to mature players whether they RP or not as having in general a more polite community. No one is required to roleplay. All that is required is that those who do roleplay are allowed to do so without harrassment.

 

And you better believe that the moment I encounter RP griefers on my RP server, it will in fact be reported.

 

Also, tell them you screen shotted the offense, even if you didn't.

 

First couple reports I put in the droid said they wanted SS's. The last couple, I mention that I have SS's and am willing to upload/email/post them and nothing was ever mentioned about them.

 

I guess they assume that if you didn't ss it, it must not bother you too much.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Subatia

[Jalyra]

The post by the OP specifically spoke toward the fact that "bad words" do not offend them. What the discussion is and should really be about is the TOPICS discussed and in the manner they are discussed within General Chat.

 

I will give examples:

 

I have heard discussions of bodily excrement, the use of bodily excrement in intimate relations, intimate relations with animals, the death of people by tragic shootings, natural disasters, government oppression

 

These are merely examples that I give for reference. These are the kinds of topics that definitely can be discussed in a civilized manner, as I attempted above to use better language to describe the references. However, most times, these topics are discussed in an offensive, desultory manner, with little respect for the victims. This is what I believe the OP was referring to. (If this incorrect, please correct me, OP.)

 

This is not a discussion about "naughty words", however, I will indulge in a reply to your post below.

 

I again ask you to please outline the TOS and EULA that states being offensive is against those terms.

 

Alas! Someone has pointed them out!

There's the thing though, sexist, and racist. Other comments are of free reign, no? So since you are not specifying what comments these are, then how are we to suppose that those comments are racist, and/or sexist? What if these people using these "derogatory" comments were they themselves, that race speaking to another of that race? The list goes on, and on.

 

Examples

 

the "C" word is derogatory for what it stands for, yet it is an appropriate part of the feminine body however it is not in any way sexist.

 

It is not an appropriate part of the feminine body. There is another name for it that has less offensive connotations. It has been, and is usually used to demean women and describe their value as just one part of their anatomy. It is sexist.

 

the "N" word is derogatory for what it stands for towards a certain race, yet those of that race use it freely between one another.

 

This word, though used between those of the race it was used in such a hateful manner describe, is still a hateful word. Many people, either of the race it is used by, and those not of that race, find it offensive and hateful.

 

the "B" word is "derogatory" for what it stands for towards a woman, however it's not sexist it simply stands for again something "Derogatory" but in real life it's simply a dog in heat.

 

This word has been used to describe a woman in a manner that is used as an insult. "In Real Life" it is also an offensive word to describe a woman.

 

These are all examples that have different meanings, that users take out of context because they decide to do so, and thus find it offensive.

 

Now granted this is all TOS, and EULA related sure, but the two words related to a female are in no way sexist, or racist. So the nitty gritty is what's so offending that is violating those terms?

 

See above for the reasons why it is considered sexist and/or racist.

 

@fourarrows

 

So basically the grammar police would roll on Server A, holding 25% of the SWTOR population, and the offensive brothers in arms would roll on Server B, holding 75% of the SWTOR community.

 

I serve in the U.S. Navy there are many a thing you've never seen, heard, or done that those of us will. That includes fighting for these freedoms we are debating.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Jalyra

[DarthChagras]

You miss the point. Again.

 

If there's a question of whether or not your statement may be construed as inflammatory why would you even say it?

 

If you wish to engage in this type of behavior, do it in a private channel. I am seriously grasping at how else I can explain it so you will understand.

 

Read the Rules of Conduct. If you cannot differentiate offensive and unacceptable from speech that is acceptable then you probably shouldn't be using the internet.

 

it's all outlined right here. Please. Read it. http://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/rulesofconduct

 

I'm afraid I don't miss the point. I get your point that you find it offensive, and don't want to see it in general chat but you do NOT list what it is that is indeed being said, so I can only assume. Going off of the things Jalyra listed most are not violating the TOS/EULA.

 

bodily excrement, the use of bodily excrement in intimate relations, intimate relations with animals, the death of people by tragic shootings, natural disasters, government oppression

 

According to the TOS/EULA

"Behavior that is always considered harassment includes derogatory and/or hateful comments that are sexual, racist, religious, or related to gender or creed."

 

Speaking of bodily excrement, the death of a person, natural disasters, and government oppression is NOT a violation. The only violation listed would be of the sexual nature.

 

 

@Jalyra

the bold is the offensive portion, notice how article 1 is commonly used when referring unless again you take offense, and are unintelligible.

1. the vulva or ******.

2. Disparaging and Offensive .

a. a woman.

b. a contemptible person.

3. sexual intercourse with a woman.

[Subatia]

gibberish snippish

 

So basically the grammar police would roll on Server A, holding 25% of the SWTOR population, and the offensive brothers in arms would roll on Server B, holding 75% of the SWTOR community.

 

I serve in the U.S. Navy there are many a thing you've never seen, heard, or done that those of us will. That includes fighting for these freedoms we are debating.

 

 

Your server A/B example would never happen. If it did, both servers would probably be rather nice, since the the main reason peeps engage in such abhorrent behavior is to get a rise out of the 'squares.'

 

Thank you for your service, but any 'freedoms' end as soon as you click "I Agree" to the rules.

[-Aarioch-]

I am struggling with a good way to write my thoughts on this topic, please bear with me.

 

The hardest part about freedom of speech is recognizing that the freedom is only real if you can tolerate something you despise. please don't take this out of context and try to apply it to physical harm or similar analogies, I am being specific to verbalization and the written word. While I happen to agree that people should take the more vulgar or degrading conversations to a more private channel ( I actually think this game will allow you to create and invite multiple people to a private channel?), I don't expect them to nor do I think they need to do so. General Chat is a public domain space and as such the d-bags have just as much right to use it for whatever they are saying as you or I.

 

At the same time I see where you are coming from and get the idea of 'why should most suffer for the sake of a few...' well honestly we don't have to suffer they are only words, spouted by people we don't even know (most likely) about stuff I doubt we really care about in the figurative sense that they are 'sharing' it in.

 

With all that said.. if I see chatter about potentially malicious acts or aggressive/abusive dialog coming from a couple sources I will absolutely report it, but that has more to do with the way things can escalate.

 

Anyway I hope this makes sense.. and it's not that I disagree with what you are feeling, I just disagree with acting as though "rules" and "laws" are equivalent and somehow translate into some entitlement or rights situation.

[Jalyra]

According to the TOS/EULA

"Behavior that is always considered harassment includes derogatory and/or hateful comments that are sexual, racist, religious, or related to gender or creed."

 

Speaking of bodily excrement, the death of a person, natural disasters, and government oppression is NOT a violation. The only violation listed would be of the sexual nature.

 

 

@Jalyra

the bold is the offensive portion, notice how article 1 is commonly used when referring unless again you take offense, and are unintelligible.

1. the vulva or ******.

2. Disparaging and Offensive .

a. a woman.

b. a contemptible person.

3. sexual intercourse with a woman.

 

I admit I am unsure what you're trying to say with the second part that you aimed at me. Please explain?

 

As for the first part, we can never be specific in what is a violation of the TOS/EULA because we, as the players are not the final judge. The employees of Bioware/EA that have been given that power are. What we, (those that agree with the OP) are merely saying is we have the power to report behavior we may think is in violation. If it turns out that it isn't and the suspected offender is not found in violation, that's fine with me. I merely have the power to point it out, which is all I ever do.

 

I also wanted to reply back to the last line of your post, about fighting for the freedoms we're discussing. Most certainly, Sir, you ARE fighting for many of our Freedoms and those around the world indirectly. I would never deny that. However, it is not the "Freedoms you've fought for", IE Freedom of Speech that I am having an issue with. It is merely, we believe some discussions and behavior are in violation of the TOS/EULA and we are exercising our right, as customers to report them.

 

I am no judge of my fellow man. Never have been, never will be. None of us should be, really. I can only offer up my view to those that have the legal right to judge, Bioware/EA employees that have been granted this power to enforce the TOS/EULA.

[Iret]

im playing rebel on Nadds Sacophagus and happy to say ive hardly seen any inappropriate players saying racial slurs and flat out flaming one another. Also worth noting to whoever joins our guild, we politely remind them from refraining from any racial slurs as a few or our guildies are black.

[Subatia]

I am struggling with a good way to write my thoughts on this topic, please bear with me.

 

The hardest part about freedom of speech is recognizing that the freedom is only real if you can tolerate something you despise. please don't take this out of context and try to apply it to physical harm or similar analogies, I am being specific to verbalization and the written word. While I happen to agree that people should take the more vulgar or degrading conversations to a more private channel ( I actually think this game will allow you to create and invite multiple people to a private channel?), I don't expect them to nor do I think they need to do so. General Chat is a public domain space and as such the d-bags have just as much right to use it for whatever they are saying as you or I.

 

At the same time I see where you are coming from and get the idea of 'why should most suffer for the sake of a few...' well honestly we don't have to suffer they are only words, spouted by people we don't even know (most likely) about stuff I doubt we really care about in the figurative sense that they are 'sharing' it in.

 

With all that said.. if I see chatter about potentially malicious acts or aggressive/abusive dialog coming from a couple sources I will absolutely report it, but that has more to do with the way things can escalate.

 

Anyway I hope this makes sense.. and it's not that I disagree with what you are feeling, I just disagree with acting as though "rules" and "laws" are equivalent and somehow translate into some entitlement or rights situation.

 

1- There is no "Freedom of Speech" in a private game. Everybody agrees to follow the rules.

2- General Chat is not "public domain space." It is a small part of a private game.

3- The only entitlement going on in here is that people think they are entitled to say whatever they want to, with out any consequences.

 

You really can get on chat and say whatever you want to. You may get reported and, if you are, you may get a suspension.

 

If you don't want a suspension, don't be a moron in public.

[Brosephiine]

1- There is no "Freedom of Speech" in a private game. Everybody agrees to follow the rules.

2- General Chat is not "public domain space." It is a small part of a private game.

3- The only entitlement going on in here is that people think they are entitled to say whatever they want to, with out any consequences.

 

You really can get on chat and say whatever you want to. You may get reported and, if you are, you may get a suspension.

 

If you don't want a suspension, don't be a moron in public.

 

 

Quoted for truth.

[DarthChagras]

I don't expect them to nor do I think they need to do so. General Chat is a public domain space and as such the d-bags have just as much right to use it for whatever they are saying as you or I.

 

well honestly we don't have to suffer they are only words, spouted by people we don't even know (most likely) about stuff I doubt we really care about in the figurative sense that they are 'sharing' it in.

 

I just disagree with acting as though "rules" and "laws" are equivalent and somehow translate into some entitlement or rights situation.

 

^End all be all

[Brosephiine]

Well said. The first part, at least.

 

Frankly, the image that comes to mind when reading the OP is of an old Southern Gent, his monocle flying energetically from his eye socket while he indignantly grumbles "Oh my! Well I never! I do declare, how rude!".

 

I'm afraid, OP, that not everyone shares your sentiments, and if anything is offensive here, it is the fact that you feel you have the right to judge other people and indeed, to deprive them of access to the game, simply for that reason.

 

I laughed, hard, at the episode of Mock the Week where Frankie Boyle made fun of Richard Hammond's struggle to recover his faculties after his car crash. You would likely consider that unacceptable. Despite being quite well educated, and possessing a fairly extensive vocabulary, I swear, and often. Why? Because swear words have a purpose, that being to express a typically negative sentiment with more brevity than would otherwise be the case, and they do that job admirably. I do not find words to be inherently offensive, nor do I consider some words to be more inherently offensive than others(I have absolutely no issues with using "the C word", for example), it is the intent of the speaker which makes speech offensive.

 

You speak about "slipping" in front of a child, but we are not on the whole children, we are adults, and while that may not speak to any particular individual's level of maturity, it absolutely does speak to the level of protection against "naughty words" to which we are entitled; none whatsoever.

 

What really gets to me about these sorts of passive-aggressive complaints is; I'm not an unreasonable person. I may privately consider you a prude or a killjoy for it, but if you make to me an earnest request to moderate my behaviour because you don't like it, I would most likely do so. But such requests are rare, I had previously supposed because it wasn't a major issue, although after reading this thread I'm beginning to suspect it's because quite a few people would rather resort to twisting sensible rules designed to stop bullying behaviour in order to silence those with different opinions.

 

 

My issue with this post is that the OP has said multiple times that they don't mind that kind of talk, they don't mind "naughty words" in general chat so much, their issue is some of the topics discussed or the way they are discussed. If I see someone talking about how they like ****** women, which I have seen, I'm going to report them. I'm fairly certain this is more what the OP is talking about (along with other derogatory/harmful comments such as racism and sexism -- excluding sammich making comments in my own opinion), not necessarily cursing.

 

This is a T rated game and some colorful language is to be expected. I don't care about cursing in general chat, there's a filter for that if people don't like it. But as I said, if you're talking about ****** wimminz and molesting small children or putting batteries in the butts of the mentally retarded, I'm going to report you.

[Subatia]

^End all be all

 

Actual end all is BW

 

They say no harassment.

 

http://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/roc

C-2 Harassment consists of misuse and/or abuse of game mechanics and verbal harassment with the intention of distressing and offending other players.

 

Don't like it? Don't play.

 

Go back to that other game where they tolerate your level of maturity.

[sosolidshoe]

My issue with this post is that the OP has said multiple times that they don't mind that kind of talk, they don't mind "naughty words" in general chat so much, their issue is some of the topics discussed or the way they are discussed. If I see someone talking about how they like ****** women, which I have seen, I'm going to report them. I'm fairly certain this is more what the OP is talking about (along with other derogatory/harmful comments such as racism and sexism -- excluding sammich making comments in my own opinion), not necessarily cursing.

 

This is a T rated game and some colorful language is to be expected. I don't care about cursing in general chat, there's a filter for that if people don't like it. But as I said, if you're talking about ****** wimminz and molesting small children or putting batteries in the butts of the mentally retarded, I'm going to report you.

 

Uhu, except the OP did not use those very specific examples, they simply used terms like "sexist" and "offensive" and "hate speech".

 

This is why I feel the replies to my post trying to claim this is all just about being a good little boy and following the rules are so prima facie disingenuous, because this has nothing to do with what the rules are, but what a person considers to fall under them in practice.

 

I am white, my friend is also white, if he and I were to greet each other in General with "whuzzup ma n***r!"(not that I'd ever use such poor grammar you understand ), is that racist behaviour? To one person and one CS rep it absolutely is, to another person and another CS rep, it is not. Why should you, or the OP, have the right to judge? Why should you, or the OP, have the power to roll a dice to see whether this other paying customer gets a CS who can grasp irony? If a statement is not directed at a particular individual who plays the game, and is not a general statement of bigotry, I question why anyone would feel the need to make a report.

 

Lets try another one, the word "c**t"; to me and thousands of others, simply a swear word, one covered by the filter which anyone can turn on at will, no worse than "f**k" or "crap" or "damn it". Yet I've seen passionately written essays decrying it as the most sexist word in the English language, and that to use it in any context at all is an insult to all women. Is using that word, not even in reference to a woman, sexist? More pertinently; does the very fact that some uptight players report its use as sexist mean the CS team will treat it as such?

 

This is the nuance that several of you appear to be missing in your hurry to type the word "rules" as often as is grammatically possible. You demand that players with a certain sense of humour show restraint, at all times, on the off chance that someone might find their behaviour unacceptable. I would say that perhaps you(collective, nonspecific) should show restraint, and only use the report feature when someone is being a troll or a bully, rather than simply making a joke you find to be inappropriate.

 

Context is everything.

 

EDIT:

 

Aha, now we come to it;

 

Actual end all is BW

 

They say no harassment.

 

http://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/roc

C-2 Harassment consists of misuse and/or abuse of game mechanics and verbal harassment with the intention of distressing and offending other players.

 

Don't like it? Don't play.

 

Go back to that other game where they tolerate your level of maturity.

 

Now, lets try putting a different emphasis on those words shall we, and see how it changes the meaning(by the way, it's considered good form to put "emphasis mine" down when you do so, in order to indicate to people that you may have altered the original meaning).

 

C-2 Harassment consists of misuse and/or abuse of game mechanics and verbal harassment with the intention of distressing and offending other players.

 

Emphasis is, obviously, mine. Now again, why should your judgement be the one to place a player into a lottery? They might get a CSR who thinks that their joke was funny, or one who considered it in bad-taste but lacked "intent", or they might get someone as uptight as yourself and have their account banned.

 

My interpretation of the rules -and since interpretation is possible at all there exists ambiguity in potential applicability- is that I can use any language, make any joke, discuss any topic I like, providing my intent is not to distress and offend. I would further contend that unless a person is specifically and obviously directing their comments towards another player or engaging in some long and hateful rant against a specific group, only the most prudish pedant would attempt to apply rules designed to protest people against victimisation and abuse.

Edited January 25, 2012 by sosolidshoe

[Caldus]

This problem is not just limited to WoW, it is the internet in general.

 

I really don't see a solution, but I support the decision to report them.

 

Would be nice if a certain number of reports within a set amount of time got you auto-transferred to an "under the bridge" server and they could all troll the bot farmers and cred sellers together.

 

The problem with leaving the solution up to the company is that they don't want to lose subscriptions, the problem with leaving it to the masses is that it would get abused.

[Caldus]

In all honesty, it's kind of violating the freedom of speech amendment even if this is the internet in which case it should be enacted even more as it has no government. I should be allowed theoretically to say whatever I want, regardless of whether or not it offends someones parents, or child. The same in a public place, I hate it when I pay my hard earned dollars to go to a sporting event only to sit next to one of those parents with those kind of children. Fact is children will grow up and learn to swear, be vulgar, rude, obnoxious, etc. from middle school, and high school. Sheltering isn't the way to prevent those kinds of things either.

 

Now in no way am I trying to be an ******e, or indecent but honestly If you can't take what some people say in general chat, then maybe you're a bit insensitive. I've got 2 people on my ignore list since day 2 of early access, and that's simply because they're griefers. Unless you're playing on some **** hole of a server, with some **** hole of a population then I'm not sure how you'd fill your entire ignore list up in one night...unless again referencing the insensitive part.

 

And as such I wouldn't think you could suspend me because your TOS violates my amendments. Just saying. However it does seem we are further and further away from a democracy all the time.

 

Your constitutional rights only protect you from government infringement.

 

Even those rights don't protect all speech.

 

You also contract many other rights away with your EULA and TOSA.

 

A private company like EA/BioWare/Blizzard can revoke your license to play for pretty much any reason according to the language in those agreements, and if they choose to do so for your choice of language, feel free to go speak to a lawyer and get laughed out of his office.

 

Will they do this? No, its bad for business. Could they? Yes, absolutely.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Caldus

[Subatia]

Uhu, except the OP did not use those very specific examples, they simply used terms like "sexist" and "offensive" and "hate speech".

 

This is why I feel the replies to my post trying to claim this is all just about being a good little boy and following the rules are so prima facie disingenuous, because this has nothing to do with what the rules are, but what a person considers to fall under them in practice.

 

I am white, my friend is also white, if he and I were to greet each other in General with "whuzzup ma n***r!"(not that I'd ever use such poor grammar you understand ), is that racist behaviour? To one person and one CS rep it absolutely is, to another person and another CS rep, it is not. Why should you, or the OP, have the right to judge? Why should you, or the OP, have the power to roll a dice to see whether this other paying customer gets a CS who can grasp irony? If a statement is not directed at a particular individual who plays the game, and is not a general statement of bigotry, I question why anyone would feel the need to make a report.

 

Lets try another one, the word "c**t"; to me and thousands of others, simply a swear word, one covered by the filter which anyone can turn on at will, no worse than "f**k" or "crap" or "damn it". Yet I've seen passionately written essays decrying it as the most sexist word in the English language, and that to use it in any context at all is an insult to all women. Is using that word, not even in reference to a woman, sexist? More pertinently; does the very fact that some uptight players report its use as sexist mean the CS team will treat it as such?

 

This is the nuance that several of you appear to be missing in your hurry to type the word "rules" as often as is grammatically possible. You demand that players with a certain sense of humour show restraint, at all times, on the off chance that someone might find their behaviour unacceptable. I would say that perhaps you(collective, nonspecific) should show restraint, and only use the report feature when someone is being a troll or a bully, rather than simply making a joke you find to be inappropriate.

 

Context is everything.

 

The defense of racists and sexist everywhere.

 

If it is censored by the filter, 99% of the time it is legitimate and BW has decided those words have no place in their game.

 

You keep using words like irony and nuance, but I don't think you actually know the meaning of those words.

 

If you think it is ok to go around in public yelling those words at the top of your lungs, do it. Someone may decide to correct you or they may beat the crap out of you.

 

A freedom of speech does not entail a freedom from repercussions from your twisted speech.

 

Want to be racist? Take it private.

 

Want to the sexist? Take it private.

 

Want to do it in public chat? Take your medicine when BW swings the ban hammer at you.

[Kabjat]

I'm afraid I don't miss the point. I get your point that you find it offensive, and don't want to see it in general chat but you do NOT list what it is that is indeed being said, so I can only assume. Going off of the things Jalyra listed most are not violating the TOS/EULA.

 

 

 

According to the TOS/EULA

"Behavior that is always considered harassment includes derogatory and/or hateful comments that are sexual, racist, religious, or related to gender or creed."

 

Speaking of bodily excrement, the death of a person, natural disasters, and government oppression is NOT a violation. The only violation listed would be of the sexual nature.

 

 

@Jalyra

the bold is the offensive portion, notice how article 1 is commonly used when referring unless again you take offense, and are unintelligible.

1. the vulva or ******.

2. Disparaging and Offensive .

a. a woman.

b. a contemptible person.

3. sexual intercourse with a woman.

 

 

I apologize if I neglected to specify the topics that I would find offensive or hateful or otherwise inflammatory in my original post. The fact that I linked the rules of conduct is a clear indication where I stand and what exactly my complaint is. Yet I can see it was naive of me to assume that it would be obvious to most people what would constitute the nature of my complaint. I can't help thinking you are being nit picky on purpose, though I do appreciate the dialogue and the fact that you offer your opinion.

 

The violations of which I am referring are almost ALWAYS sexual and sexist in nature or are a racial slur. The fact that you are dissecting the actual and literal definitions of what exactly those things are tells me that while you understand perfectly where I am coming from, you don't much appreciate my viewpoint.

[sosolidshoe]

The defense of racists and sexist everywhere.

 

If it is censored by the filter, 99% of the time it is legitimate and BW has decided those words have no place in their game.

 

You keep using words like irony and nuance, but I don't think you actually know the meaning of those words.

 

If you think it is ok to go around in public yelling those words at the top of your lungs, do it. Someone may decide to correct you or they may beat the crap out of you.

 

A freedom of speech does not entail a freedom from repercussions from your twisted speech.

 

Want to be racist? Take it private.

 

Want to the sexist? Take it private.

 

Want to do it in public chat? Take your medicine when BW swings the ban hammer at you.

 

I do indeed know what irony is, you have just demonstrated it in spades.

 

I should congratulate you to be honest, I don't think I've seen anyone so spectacularly miss the point since the last time I watched Hitch(God rest him, arf arf ) debate some babbling creationist. Anyway, I'm going to bow out now, because if we're at the point where the opposition in a discussion is going to adopt the position that anyone who views the matter as anything other than an absolutist dichotomy is a racist, the discussion is pretty much over.

[Kabjat]

I am struggling with a good way to write my thoughts on this topic, please bear with me.

 

The hardest part about freedom of speech is recognizing that the freedom is only real if you can tolerate something you despise. please don't take this out of context and try to apply it to physical harm or similar analogies, I am being specific to verbalization and the written word. While I happen to agree that people should take the more vulgar or degrading conversations to a more private channel ( I actually think this game will allow you to create and invite multiple people to a private channel?), I don't expect them to nor do I think they need to do so. General Chat is a public domain space and as such the d-bags have just as much right to use it for whatever they are saying as you or I.

 

At the same time I see where you are coming from and get the idea of 'why should most suffer for the sake of a few...' well honestly we don't have to suffer they are only words, spouted by people we don't even know (most likely) about stuff I doubt we really care about in the figurative sense that they are 'sharing' it in.

 

With all that said.. if I see chatter about potentially malicious acts or aggressive/abusive dialog coming from a couple sources I will absolutely report it, but that has more to do with the way things can escalate.

 

Anyway I hope this makes sense.. and it's not that I disagree with what you are feeling, I just disagree with acting as though "rules" and "laws" are equivalent and somehow translate into some entitlement or rights situation.

 

Thank you for your thoughts. I can totally see where you are coming from and I'm afraid I may have come off as a bit rigid and high handed in my original post.

 

I do not have an issue with swear words in chat nor do I have an issue with people using gratuitous swear words in guild chat. I myself am guilty of it. I'm not some goody goody who tries to foist her morals and values on everyone.

 

My problem is when chat turns into something that the majority are likely offended by, to varying degrees.

 

It's just since the launch of SWTOR have I begun to get fed up with the community on my server. It was constant. I keep seeing people in this thread saying I haven't been specific about the offenses that get under my skin so much. Since I never SS anything, I'll give you a few examples of what I'm talking about.

 

"Hey Suchandsuch, why the hell did you kick me from the group?!?"

"****, noob, learn to heal. You're probably American, ."

"I was healing, but everyone was on different targets, taking damage..."

"Just like spoiled rotten Americans, expecting everything to be handed to them...go kill yourself, loser."

"**** you, ***-hole"

 

and so on and so forth and it just escalates. At this point, you have several players getting in on the discussion, ripping into Americans, making the environment even more hostile.

 

That is just one example, though hating on certain national groups is pretty commonplace. How can something like that be taken out of context?

 

Can anyone honestly tell me that this type of behavior should be allowed to continue without consequence when the developers themselves outlined specifically that it is NOT ALLOWED?

[Brosephiine]

Uhu, except the OP did not use those very specific examples, they simply used terms like "sexist" and "offensive" and "hate speech".

 

This is why I feel the replies to my post trying to claim this is all just about being a good little boy and following the rules are so prima facie disingenuous, because this has nothing to do with what the rules are, but what a person considers to fall under them in practice.

 

I am white, my friend is also white, if he and I were to greet each other in General with "whuzzup ma n***r!"(not that I'd ever use such poor grammar you understand ), is that racist behaviour? To one person and one CS rep it absolutely is, to another person and another CS rep, it is not. Why should you, or the OP, have the right to judge? Why should you, or the OP, have the power to roll a dice to see whether this other paying customer gets a CS who can grasp irony? If a statement is not directed at a particular individual who plays the game, and is not a general statement of bigotry, I question why anyone would feel the need to make a report.

 

Lets try another one, the word "c**t"; to me and thousands of others, simply a swear word, one covered by the filter which anyone can turn on at will, no worse than "f**k" or "crap" or "damn it". Yet I've seen passionately written essays decrying it as the most sexist word in the English language, and that to use it in any context at all is an insult to all women. Is using that word, not even in reference to a woman, sexist? More pertinently; does the very fact that some uptight players report its use as sexist mean the CS team will treat it as such?

 

This is the nuance that several of you appear to be missing in your hurry to type the word "rules" as often as is grammatically possible. You demand that players with a certain sense of humour show restraint, at all times, on the off chance that someone might find their behaviour unacceptable. I would say that perhaps you(collective, nonspecific) should show restraint, and only use the report feature when someone is being a troll or a bully, rather than simply making a joke you find to be inappropriate.

 

Context is everything.

 

 

I agree, context is everything. If someone were to say that in general chat, I'd gloss over it. If someone where to say that in a derogatory manner and proceed to completely degrade the person they were talking to, I'd take serious offense and I'd report them. However, if someone were openly talking about sex in a very graphical manner, I'd also report them. Again, the use of tact in public should be common courtesy imo.

[Kabjat]

The post by the OP specifically spoke toward the fact that "bad words" do not offend them. What the discussion is and should really be about is the TOPICS discussed and in the manner they are discussed within General Chat.

 

Thank you for pointing this out. I will edit my original post to reflect that it's the topics that come up in chat, and not really the use of bad language.

 

I will give examples:

 

I have heard discussions of bodily excrement, the use of bodily excrement in intimate relations, intimate relations with animals, the death of people by tragic shootings, natural disasters, government oppression

 

These are merely examples that I give for reference. These are the kinds of topics that definitely can be discussed in a civilized manner, as I attempted above to use better language to describe the references. However, most times, these topics are discussed in an offensive, desultory manner, with little respect for the victims. This is what I believe the OP was referring to. (If this incorrect, please correct me, OP.)

 

You are spot on, Jayla. There have been a few references to 'context' when evaluating whether or not something is offensive. I am most definitely referring to the otherwise innocuous words and phrases being discussed in a desultory manner.

This is not a discussion about "naughty words", however, I will indulge in a reply to your post below.

 

I've answered your post in green