Let's compare early WoW with early TOR

[Barathos]

"This is 2012..."

 

Combat logs keep people busy? UI customizations?

 

Those things would be NICE. But they're not NECESSARY. I'd rather have a sweet legacy system or a more polished space combat system. Your priorities seem a bit... Off.

 

*Facepalm*

 

Well it is missing one of the most basic features that most people would take for granted. /roll

 

This is ANNOYING when you're raiding and you have a master looter. You basicly have to play "pick a number" to get your item. =/

[ApocDream]

I guess it's acceptable for all first year car models to be *** because the pinto blew up with it first came out, right?

[kevlarto]

why and who cares, played wow in the early years, bored me to tears moved on../shrug

[lordgracy]

"This is 2012..."

 

Combat logs keep people busy? UI customizations?

 

Those things would be NICE. But they're not NECESSARY. I'd rather have a sweet legacy system or a more polished space combat system. Your priorities seem a bit... Off.

 

*Facepalm*

 

Sure they dont keep people busy but its what people are used to and want. You could have car with no doors, no AC no radio no powerlocks no antilock brakes no power brakes, but hey you can still drive it. Why should you expect more then that!!?? When you pay for the deluxe model(AAA mmo) you expect it to be feature full. I enjoy the gameplay of SWTOR and thats why im still here but if a lot of these features arent added in the next few months its doubtful Ill still be here.

Edited January 23, 2012 by lordgracy

[PHPer]

Why oh why, should i want to compare a 2004 game with a 2011 game ?

 

I dont compare the pc i used back then, with my iPhone ! Why, because my phone wins.

 

Swtor is a good ok first attempt, that imo should still be in beta, but i guess someone needed the money now. That being said, Biowares constant fail in focus is the most scary part tbh, having a account system that literaly stealts peoples money, and then ignore it all together. That shows where biowares focus is.

 

Blizzard are greedy, but atleast you get what you order.

[Offended]

None of you have really provided constructive criticism. That would actually help make the game better. You know, going into the threads the mods have designated for suggestions? How about the suggestions forum?

 

Don't read the forums much do you?

 

Hundreds of posts about each of a feature that should be (and is in most) MMO's was left out of Swtor because of the lack of intelligence on biowares part.

 

Then, you have the thousands of posts about the Combat Ability issue which as i gather from beta testers, was reported nearly a YEAR ago.

 

Hell, bioware even created a suggestions forum because there was so many posts.

 

Concise, well written posts outlining the need for xyz feature and how it helps the game and not hurts it.

 

However, what happens in most, if not all of those posts?

 

You have these idiotic swtor fanboys come in and say "NO CAUSE IT WILL BE LIKE WOWS AND THIS ISNT WOWS THIS IS BETTER THAN MMO IN THE WORLDS!!!" trying to make the case that warcraft should be for bad players, yet they're against the things that make players good at the game?

 

 

There was another post that i saw, where the author of the post said something along the people that don't like wow that move to another MMO and complain about the MMO when it moves to become more feature rich like wow, then pack up and leave are the ones that kill the MMO.

[Vaegaknight]

Oh god, car analogies, huh? Have we really started those again?

[Vaegaknight]

Don't read the forums much do you?

 

Hundreds of posts about each of a feature that should be (and is in most) MMO's was left out of Swtor because of the lack of intelligence on biowares part.

 

Then, you have the thousands of posts about the Combat Ability issue which as i gather from beta testers, was reported nearly a YEAR ago.

 

Hell, bioware even created a suggestions forum because there was so many posts.

 

Concise, well written posts outlining the need for xyz feature and how it helps the game and not hurts it.

 

However, what happens in most, if not all of those posts?

 

You have these idiotic swtor fanboys come in and say "NO CAUSE IT WILL BE LIKE WOWS AND THIS ISNT WOWS THIS IS BETTER THAN MMO IN THE WORLDS!!!" trying to make the case that warcraft should be for bad players, yet they're against the things that make players good at the game?

 

 

There was another post that i saw, where the author of the post said something along the people that don't like wow that move to another MMO and complain about the MMO when it moves to become more feature rich like wow, then pack up and leave are the ones that kill the MMO.

 

The great, VAST majority of posts are not concisely written constructive criticisms. They are blatant, "Wah I didn't get this so I'm unsubbing and you're all stupid for playing this unfinished game derp a der." So please. Don't give me that crap.

 

I commend the well written suggestions. I've given a couple of them myself. But the incessant WHINING is what kills the entire forum experience for me.

 

You do know the difference between whining and constructive criticism, don't you? Because that's the crap I'm attacking. I am all for improving this game. I am not for people without a clue, who think their opinions is everyone's opinion, who think they know best, who think the world needs to KNOW that they're quitting.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Vaegaknight

[Mobiwang]

Why oh why, should i want to compare a 2004 game with a 2011 game ?

 

I dont compare the pc i used back then, with my iPhone ! Why, because my phone wins.

 

Swtor is a good ok first attempt, that imo should still be in beta, but i guess someone needed the money now. That being said, Biowares constant fail in focus is the most scary part tbh, having a account system that literaly stealts peoples money, and then ignore it all together. That shows where biowares focus is.

 

Blizzard are greedy, but atleast you get what you order.

 

Proper grammar and punctuation would do wonders for the credibility of such posts. Just sayin'.

[Avrose]

Here's the difference:

Blizzard prioritized functional mechanics first, before content updates and expansion.

 

I'm sure that 20 days of downtime within the first 30 days had nothing to do with functionality.

 

Oh god, car analogies, huh? Have we really started those again?

 

I know rite? Cause everything is comparable to a car that is something you can buy.

 

No one possibly buys things and expects it to get better as you go like seeds, racing colts, houses for flipping and I'm sure there are others.

 

Nope everything is like a car.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Avrose

[Garbald]

Early WoW isn't on the market.

 

Compare TOR to established WoW.

 

If you go with that then every single mmo that will ever be released in the future will be an utter disappointment to you.

Development is expensive, creating content takes time...

 

No company can afford creating a game with the content (and polish) of ~3-5 years initial and then 7 years of continual development... that is 10 to 12 years of development time lol...

 

I would suggest to give up mmos completely in your case

Edited January 23, 2012 by Garbald

[Aghar]

I seem to remember vanilla wow being totally unplayable for about a week after release. Falling through floors, being unable to cross zone lines, and quests bugging out more than they do in swtor. But that is just my vanilla experience.

[Draksen]

Blizzard are greedy, but atleast you get what you order.

Haha, hahaha.

That was funny, mate

[Kinrain]

SWTOR has WoW beat for me due to its philosophy.

 

WoW is a grind. Do meaningless quests no one ever reads the details of to get better gear, so you can do instances to get better gear, that lets you do raids that give better gear, so you can do more raids to get better gear. Repeat forever or until you wise up and realise your on a treadmill where the only change is the design of the loot pinata your whacking away at.

 

SWTOR is not a grind, you play from 1 to 50 experiencing well written and compelling stories that are enjoyable. After 50, well I think i've got plenty of levelling to do with all those stories to experience and BW will have plenty for me to do when i'm ready for it.

 

Because I got off the treadmill and am enjoying a real game.

[sol_]

Lets not, its the better part of a decade later and technology is advancing constantly.

[Pvtcarnage]

I played WoW on release, and although it did have some bugs it didn't have nearly as many problems as SWTOR does. SWTOR problems include everything from light rays shooting through the world, becoming invincible in combat by dancing, glitching mana to have infinite healing, duping items in your mail box, all combat actions delayed by half a second, having high-res textures vanish, etc.

 

There is a difference between having some bugs and having a BROKEN, UNFINISHED GAME.

 

What the Bunny said

[Pamael]

Here is my take on comparing early wow and early TOR.

 

I started playing wow 3 months after US release and by then it had very little bugs. Just some server stability problems and sometimes server lag.

 

But what matters much more than bugs is that to me wow was an epic adventure, I spent almost a year playing non-stop. I made new friends online with whom I leveled. It took us months to get to 60 and I still remember lots of it like grinding satyrs in desolace for the first level 40 mount, running scarlet monastery to try to get illusionary rod for my mage, or getting ganked in eastern plaguelands.

 

SWTOR was fun, but I hit 50 in what, 3 weeks? Am already decked in epic t2 gear, with 2.5million credits and little reason to keep the subscription. The story was nice and overall I enjoyed it but the overall experience was not even remotely comparable to the excitement of my early wow days. Nothing seems particularly memorable. I guess it all happened too fast and required too little effort to really make an impact.

[Offended]

SWTOR has WoW beat for me due to its philosophy.

 

WoW is a grind. Do meaningless quests no one ever reads the details of to get better gear, so you can do instances to get better gear, that lets you do raids that give better gear, so you can do more raids to get better gear. Repeat forever or until you wise up and realise your on a treadmill where the only change is the design of the loot pinata your whacking away at.

 

SWTOR is not a grind, you play from 1 to 50 experiencing well written and compelling stories that are enjoyable. After 50, well I think i've got plenty of levelling to do with all those stories to experience and BW will have plenty for me to do when i'm ready for it.

 

Because I got off the treadmill and am enjoying a real game.

 

so when you level your second character and you do the exact same quests all over again, and you level a 3rd, and then a 4th, is it not a grind then?

 

Since you only have one path to level up, you will always do the exact same quests over and over.

 

Talk to guy and make choices that do not effect the world.

Tells you he needs power converters and tells you that the gunarks took them.

You go to the area and you kill a mob. Now your given a bonus quest to kill 30 gunarks.

ok so you kill 30 gunarks because you can't abandon the quest. after this one it tells you to collect 10, 12 or 15 of random items or destroy weapon caches. by the time you get this quest all the mobs you killed already are all respawned so you kill another 30 gunarks.

 

now you complete that one and it tells you to kill an elite in a different part, so again you clear through multitudes of mobs to get to the elite. you kill it and now you go to your main quest objective and when you return to the quest giver, the guest giver says "omg those gunarks, they must be stopped!" and asks you to kill 30 gunarks.

 

repeat on every planet, two or three times, while you level to 50 on all 8 of your characters.

[asundrus]

Let's not.

[nezroy]

But what matters much more than bugs is that to me wow was an epic adventure, I spent almost a year playing non-stop.

 

The real question is, was WoW the first MMO that you dedicated yourself to playing? (this means that, sure you may have installed and tried EQ for 2 days or something, but you didn't ever really get into it).

 

The reality is that NO MMO will ever recapture that epic feel of your first MMO. People who got hooked on EQ had the same epic feeling about EQ and the same "kinda meh" about WoW.

 

Something fascinating about TOR is just how many people I see playing who have never played an MMO before. It has attracted in a non-MMO audience in the exact same way that WoW did. For that influx of MMO virgins, I expect they will get all of that epic feeling out of TOR that you felt in WoW, and nothing will ever compare to it again for them either.

[Offended]

The story was nice and overall I enjoyed it but the overall experience was not even remotely comparable to the excitement of my early wow days. Nothing seems particularly memorable. I guess it all happened too fast and required too little effort to really make an impact.

 

Some of the places in the old world before cataclysm were amazing when you first went to them. then they added weather effects and tanaris had sand storms, it snowed in everlook and dustwallow marsh was covered in fog.

 

I was just thinking though, on how long it'd be before something like.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWgW3ogaV84 is made from swtor?

Keep in mind that blizzard actually promotes and has contests for the best warcraft videos.

 

or this,

Edited January 23, 2012 by Offended

[Baracca]

I played WoW on release, and although it did have some bugs it didn't have nearly as many problems as SWTOR does. SWTOR problems include everything from light rays shooting through the world, becoming invincible in combat by dancing, glitching mana to have infinite healing, duping items in your mail box, all combat actions delayed by half a second, having high-res textures vanish, etc.

 

There is a difference between having some bugs and having a BROKEN, UNFINISHED GAME.

 

Oh really? SWTOR unfinished? Well you obviously don't remember 2004 WOW. After reaching the mid to high 40s in wow you had to "camp grind" mobs in order to level to 50. There were no more quests. That sounds pretty unfinished to me. Other bugs or bad design was the hunter class. Pets were so slow you could out run them and barely did anything. Shaman only needed one button hotkeyed since it was so OP (frostshock). Hours of queue times only to get disconnected and start over in queue. I'm sure many others I'm forgetting. Oh yea, no LFG finder (stupid stone things in the middle of nowhere.)

Edited January 23, 2012 by Baracca

[undeniablyjeff]

I played WoW on release, and although it did have some bugs it didn't have nearly as many problems as SWTOR does. SWTOR problems include everything from light rays shooting through the world, becoming invincible in combat by dancing, glitching mana to have infinite healing, duping items in your mail box, all combat actions delayed by half a second, having high-res textures vanish, etc.

 

There is a difference between having some bugs and having a BROKEN, UNFINISHED GAME.

 

Quoted for truth.

[lrage]

The real question is, was WoW the first MMO that you dedicated yourself to playing? (this means that, sure you may have installed and tried EQ for 2 days or something, but you didn't ever really get into it).

 

The reality is that NO MMO will ever recapture that epic feel of your first MMO. People who got hooked on EQ had the same epic feeling about EQ and the same "kinda meh" about WoW.

 

Something fascinating about TOR is just how many people I see playing who have never played an MMO before. It has attracted in a non-MMO audience in the exact same way that WoW did. For that influx of MMO virgins, I expect they will get all of that epic feeling out of TOR that you felt in WoW, and nothing will ever compare to it again for them either.

 

 

I don't agree with that. I had played EQ since closed beta. When WoW came out it wasn't "meh".

 

To some it was too easy and cartoony. But WoW gutted EQ for a reason. It wasn't "eh".

 

To give an impression of how WoW felt as an EQ player I'll give a few examples.

 

Flightpaths. Holy crap that's awesome.

In-game mail? That's sweet!

 

I can tell who has a quest for me by an icon over their head? That's awesome.

 

Holy crap mounts?

 

LOOT LOOT LOOT.

 

In EQ I started a beastlord when Luclin came out and managed to get an RBB on it from killing Vox in an open group. Was EPIC, right? I felt I had more epic loot in WoW by the time I was level 25 and had some blues then I ever had in EQ.

 

Rest EXP? Nice. Hearth? Nice. Skill trees >>> AA's.

 

There was a ton of stuff compared to EQ that WoW just nailed. I actually HATED instances at first. Felt non-MMOish to me. Totally loved them by the end of WoW beta.

 

Now, i'm not a WoW fanboi. I can't wait for someone else to come along and finally make the "next" one. With about 500 minor/major tweaks SWTOR has that potential. But it starts with the combat/lag and crap loot for me. It right now lack the "polish" that WoW had at release for me. The stuff to do etc.

 

Besides, SWTOR isn't a world. I don't see level 50's while I'm leveling. There's no moment where you're doing quests right next to a zone that's meant for 10+ levels above you and you can't wait to be able to kill those things. SWTOR is a tunnel. WoW didn't give a ton of choices of where to go quest/level for any given level but they gave you some. SWTOR I'm playing a single player linear game. And in some way I hope that fails because I don't like linear in my MMO's. WoW's in grey area enough for me as is, SWTOR is 10x more linear.

[Taekoma]

for the 1 millionth time....SWTOR is not competing with early WoW....it is competing with current WoW. The demise the SWTOR is due to them not seeing that now. This game will have 250-300k max at end of 2012.