Aussircaex Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 It was great....... in 1992. It was the entire game. This is a completely optional minigame. It adds something to do that took relatively little dev time because yes, the concept is 20 years old. Same reason Zork I is in CoD: Black Ops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 It was the entire game. This is a completely optional minigame. It adds something to do that took relatively little dev time because yes, the concept is 20 years old. Same reason Zork I is in CoD: Black Ops. Yeah, as I said it's ok for what it is. But it gets very boring with repatition. However the thing with Star Wars is that it is at least as much about "space" as it is about anything else. Do you really think SWTOR would have been all it could have been with an massive space side and a way of the exploding fist lightsaber mini fight game for all the rest? No, not a chance. SWTOR needs expanded space combat, and at this point pretty much anything they do will both expand it and make it better. Arguing for the status quo is plain strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussircaex Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Yeah, as I said it's ok for what it is. But it gets very boring with repatition. However the thing with Star Wars is that it is at least as much about "space" as it is about anything else. Do you really think SWTOR would have been all it could have been with an massive space side and a way of the exploding fist lightsaber mini fight game for all the rest? No, not a chance. SWTOR needs expanded space combat, and at this point pretty much anything they do will both expand it and make it better. Arguing for the status quo is plain strange. I don't think I was arguing that the combat should remain in its status quo, I'd love it expanded. The topic of the thread was whether BW went backward in design with the combat, which would be true IF it wasn't essentially a minigame throwback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I don't think I was arguing that the combat should remain in its status quo, I'd love it expanded. The topic of the thread was whether BW went backward in design with the combat, which would be true IF it wasn't essentially a minigame throwback. It is a step backward from SWG though, as the OP says. It does somethings better than SWGs did (but then so did Star Fox [1992]), but a lot isn't and over all it certainly isn't. Even without taking the current games off the rails an awful lot could be done. But basially if SWTOR only ever has the current railed space combat, it will have been a massive step back from the last SW MMO (SWG) and frankly a massive step back from almost any SW based space combat game. Like I said a reskinned flash Barbarian with lightsabers wouldn't have been a step forward from SWG, even if SWTORs space side had been utterly amazing and expansive. I wouldn't mind so much, but they haven't even out Star Foxed the orginal Star Fox in all ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightblaster Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I think it would have been better for BioWare had they not included it at launch and added a more fulsome version later, like SWG did. I knew when they caved to pressure and included it in a bare-bones way at launch, that was going to be a problem for them, because the comparisons to SWG would be rampant (and it was clearly not going to compare with SWG's standalone space expansion pack). Trying to do an MMO that is fulsome on land and in space is tricky. SWG did it by devoting an entire expac to it. EVE still hasn't managed it, now nine years into the game (and are now redirecting that into the Dust project). Here, they threw in a very basic minigame as space combat, and I just knew that wouldn't fly, quite literally, with many players after what SWG had. It would have been better to put up with the complaints about "*** no space???" than the complaints about this, because at this point, although space will be improved, in no way do I see it developing into what people saw in SWG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidanLightwalker Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I don't see what people are so up in arms about, really. Space combat in SWTOR is basically exactly as it happened in the movies. SWG was farther from what Star Wars depicted than SWTOR is. What do we see of space in Star Wars? People standing on ships, jump to light speed! What do we see of space in SWTOR? People standing on ships, jump to lightspeed to destination! What do we see of space combat in Star Wars? A mostly linear, mission driven pathing following the main characters in the midst of a hectic battle. What do we see of space combat in SWTOR? A mostly linear, mission driven pathing following the main characters in the midst of a hectic battle. What do we see in SWG? Random blank space, fly through space, encounter fighters that just happen to be patrolling infinitely. How is that better? What? Because you can cruise around in your ship? I don't remember the part in Star Wars where Luke and Han just decided to take a pleasure cruise. The only time you really saw anything about it in Star Wars was during the mission-oriented flight scenes or the jump to lightspeed. Which is basically the same stuff we get in SWTOR. I also don't recall the part where Luke flew his x-wing out into space and farmed random pirates that seemed to have no home base and an infinite supply of fuel. OMG, as a long time Galaxies player, you hit it right on the head. SWTOR gives me the parts I like and feel iconic and cut out all the BS. I'm all for adding to it a little, but not like galaxies. Maybe like starfox multiplayer? The battle type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutherus Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I love this game to death and have a lot of faith in Bioware that they will fix a lot of the problems present but I can't help but say that the space combat in this game gets lame after 3-4 times...It feels like Star fox which is great but whoever wanted this to be the main space combat in the game should be spanked with the EA paddle. What happened to SWG space combat where I could enter my ship (ON THE PLANET) then fly straight up into the Atmosphere to were I could explore and fly in any direction I wanted...If only SWTOR had that then maybe it would be an excellent game, but for now its only good because I want to feel like I'm playing Star Wars. I'm skipping everything else in this thread to say that Bioware doesn't want space combat in its current implementation to be the only space combat. The day before early access began, there was a live online Q&A via Best Buy with the devs in which James Ohlen said they are "working on a secret project to expand the space experience." So there you have it. There's more to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupieFoxtail Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Star Wars: Battlefront 3 MAKE IT HAPPEN, SOMEONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbara Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 i actually enjoy the space missions. i know they are just for fun and not like Freelancer pvp in spaceships. but i still think its pretty fun stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
va_wanderer Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I love this game to death and have a lot of faith in Bioware that they will fix a lot of the problems present but I can't help but say that the space combat in this game gets lame after 3-4 times...It feels like Star fox which is great but whoever wanted this to be the main space combat in the game should be spanked with the EA paddle. What happened to SWG space combat where I could enter my ship (ON THE PLANET) then fly straight up into the Atmosphere to were I could explore and fly in any direction I wanted...If only SWTOR had that then maybe it would be an excellent game, but for now its only good because I want to feel like I'm playing Star Wars. Actually, it's more like a minigame. And it reminds me of this: http://www.arcade-museum.com/images/118/1181242172201.jpg Heck, it reminds me of the old vector graphics game. It's an optional shooter-on-rails, although I really wouldn't mind seeing them put areas in the game that take something like this to arrive at as an optional mission, sort of like the initial Flashpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneeve Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) If ya'll want SWG's space combat, go play the EMU. I personally like the battle atmosphere put into the space battles of SWTOR even if a few are recycled old missions. If this was a swg style space combat, you'd have garbage pilots whining and having bad parts. Now it's just pilots with bad parts (and a few who still manage to suck.) The problem with SWG's system was there were good pilots who had a hard time getting good parts. On here, they're not too hard to come by, and the low grade store bought parts actually do the job to the minimal. Edited January 23, 2012 by Oneeve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJediKnight Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Yeah, the space combat is a mess. Most true gamers hold out hope that it is a placeholder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidice Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 name one ground and space based mmo with free flight. Didn´t Star Trek have that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHoodedFang Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Star Trek Online. STO does not have free flight lol, I suggest you educate yourself as to what free flight actually is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Yeah, SWG space combat....that didn't exist until 16 months after the game released in the form of an expansion pack! Wait, you want to feel like you're playing Star Wars? Have you seen Star Wars space combat? SWTOR Space Combat looks more like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKWt0485uc4 then SWG ever did. Ya, this looks a great deal like SWTOR's space combat. Quick, lots happening, generally looks like an epic space battle. And this is only the beginning- I for one love the space combat and am a bit disappointed now that I've beaten every mission I'm going to have to wait a while for more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESBravo Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I agree with this. It seems that SWTOR could have offered so much more in terms of PVP. Running around swing your lightsaber, or shooting your guns is fun and all, but for me, it gets old pretty quickly. I would have liked to have seen spaceship combat as well, or perhaps more options as it relates to game types offered in verses. Also, for those of us who are not married to this game, and don't have time to play it 10 hours a day, it is frustrating to join a PVP where the majority of players are so much more powerful than you are. Unlike a typical shooter, where a bullet to the head can overcome a vast level difference, in SWTOR, battles are mostly determined who has the most powerful weapons and the strongest armor. A guy at level 18 has no chance whatsoever of defeating a guy who is level 50. This big level difference can make for very frustrating PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Well, as an advocate for having as much variety and options for players as possible, I too agree that space combat could be so much more. The current form of space combat is of decent quality in terms of things like graphics, sounds and music. But, the gameplay can only be considered "good" if you happen to be a fan of Tunnel Shooters. Which, in itself, isn't a bad thing. It's just that a Tunnel Shooter is extremely limited in what it can offer in terms of variety and depth in gameplay in an MMO. Other forms of spaceship combat are able to offer more that is in line with expectations and standards regarding spaceship combat. Personally speaking, I think that the Tunnel Shooter should remain in the game for people who like that kind of thing (no use throwing it out for a the sake of it), whilst a more "enriched" form of full control space combat could be introduced and expanded upon over time. Edited January 25, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Just as a reminder, don't forget that James Ohlen previously hinted that Bioware are working on something concerning space "gameplay", but refuse to give details: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=287 Space Combat – We will continue to add missions to the space game. We also have a special project going on right now that will expand space gameplay in a significant way... for now the details will have to remain under wraps. What this "special project" involves is anyones guess. Bioware's definition could be vastly different to our own. Edited January 25, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamsterkill Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I've mentioned this before, but I expect the space combat to get improvements as content is added. The rail missions will likely always be there but new missions may offer boss fight interludes that occur in bubbles. Also, small PvP dog fights in bubble space may be getting looked at too. The space game is pretty clearly inspired by Starfox, so I would be surprised if some of the features of Starfox64 didn't creep in eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scilarion Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I actually like the Space Battles. I'd love to see a more free-form kind of space combat/sim/exploration/whatever, as long as it doesn't hinder the progress and development on the CORE FEATURE of the game, which is story-based questing/missions and such. The space battles remind me of Rogue Squadron and the arcade machines I used to play. :3 A fun diversion to be sure. Moanmoanmoan. It's frankly meaningless other than some vanity items at the moment and some exp so if you don't do it, you aren't missing anything. *shrugs* Move on, kiddies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottinks Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Ya . . . E&B was seriously ahead of it's time, and EA pulled the plug on it way too soon. It was WoW in space before WoW was ever released. Great game that TOR could take some lessons from I think. Still have my EA/Net-7 Activation ID lol. A Canadian indie tried resurrecting it and porting it to the newer OS's with the Earth & Beyond Emulator, but the program died out when it was announced that Crytpic picked up the STO license from Perpetual. I freakin' LOVED E&B, the raids, the crafting, the Vrix storyline, "the fish bowl" that never got the chance to get to its full potential. I really miss that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamoldmill Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Tie Fighter was done what, 15 years ago, on a few floppy disks? Plenty of drama, narrative, completely open space combat and it was one of the best games ever. Not too hard to take that and run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Tie Fighter was done what, 15 years ago, on a few floppy disks? Plenty of drama, narrative, completely open space combat and it was one of the best games ever. Not too hard to take that and run. Yeah it's surprising they didn't do something a bit closers to SW (that SW had already done), rather than Star Fox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lularapio Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I can fully control my ship in my imagination lol'd hard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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