Is it just me or does Bounty Hunter Healing need a buff for PvE

[Shammus]

I don't know the answer to this, but healing groups as a bounty hunter doesn't feel as viable as say operative and sorcerer

 

I could be wrong, maybe its just me, maybe groups I'm playing with suck, maybe I suck as a bounty hunter healer... but there have been several fights I've been in where I feel that healing a group through is absolutely impossible.

 

Maybe I'm being over dramatic, I don't really know the answer to the question.. bounty hunters feel like extremely good solo person healers, maybe kolto missile should heal a little bit more or have a HoT added to it or maybe alacrity rating needs to affect the rate at which heat dissipates

 

Do any other bounty hunters agree? I mean rapid shots is nice as well but can't be used to heal yourself...

 

Maybe its not bounty hunter healing that needs a buff maybe its tanks threat, all mobs are ranged sometimes it gets frustrating in groups as the ranged mobs always go for the healers.

 

What are other healer mercenaries feeling? I would imagine that this applies to commandos as well.

 

We have no in combat rez, as well as no interrupt while I don't necessarily feel we need an interrupt I've often taken a look @ the sorcerer class and felt I could heal a group MUCH better as a sorcerer. Maybe BH's who roll merc need to be able to generate more heat

 

These are all suggestions, please discuss how bounty hunter healing is for yourselves.

 

 

It just feels that in a heated situation a bounty hunter won't be able to keep its group alive compared to the sorcerer class.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Shammus

[Goobmeister]

BHs aren't supposed to be pure healers. Roll sorc/sage if that's what you want to do. You can be a very good healer but you should not neglect your ranged attacks for if things go really bad. In fact I'm going to try out the build in this thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=5847 where you can switch roles between healer or ranged dps depending on the team. Edited January 22, 2012 by Goobmeister

[Shammus]

well if bounty hunters aren't supposed to be pure healers, then why give them heals? or a talent tree for it

 

I'm disagreeing with the above, if they aren't viable healers then I will roll a sorc, but I think for pve healing bh need a buff.

[Goobmeister]

They can be viable healers but only as pocket or single target healers not for groups.

[Kinediks]

They can be viable healers but only as pocket or single target healers not for groups.

 

You really are a Goob. Bodyguards are very capable group healers. Yes other classes aoe heal with less effort, but with supercharged gas our aoe heals are very strong when you factor in the added shield effect from Kolto Missle. Typically it's better to single target heal because they're very strong, but predicting damage and applying Kolto's shield will help immensely.

 

That being said, i'd welcome a Kolto Missle buff.

[Ravagexe]

I dont know what your problem is...

I have a bodyguard healer and Im doing perfectly fine in almost everything.

Sure maybe Sage does better but Bodyguard can still heal through everything?

[SideshowLucifer]

I'm a healer and I heal groups just fine. We have all the tools we need, you just need to learn how everything interacts together and learn which heals to use and when.

[Bastionhawk]

I noticed that as a bodyguard I don't have any issues healing a group in hardmodes when the group is working as it should. If the tank is doing his job and the DPS is doing their job then my job is easy.

 

If a group doesn't have it together, it can be nigh on impossible to heal them as a bodyguard, in my experience.

[metalfenix]

The only two things that bother me is that we don't have a combat rez move, and our kolto missile healing could be stronger. Other than that, I've done well as far as I've played.

[Puzzlybox]

I haven't had an issue in any HMs, barring bashing head against bugged encounters.

 

Raids I'm not too sure.

[DarthVarrak]

In Roles section of the Class forums, select the Healing sub-forum. There is a great guide describing the healing pros and cons of each healing class (Operative, Mercenary, Sorceror). Based on that guide, the Mercenary comes out as being a Single Target healer. This does not mean we can't heal groups as well. This simply means that, end-game content, we end up being better uitlized as Tank healers. Throw the kolto shield up on the tank and heal, while spot healing the group. This makes us good in FP too since the Tank should be taking the heavy damage while the group takes the spot damage, if any. I consider this class sorta like the Resto Shaman, which I played for several years.

 

Operatives are classified as being very good multi-target healers. I don't really remember why. I consider them kinda like the Resto Druid.

 

Sorcs have so much utility that they are the only Toolbox Healer in this game (along with their mirror the Sage). This is your basic Disc Priest/Holy Priest minus the Lightwell.

 

Figure out which type of healing you are better at/enjoy more then roll that class, or try to improve your current role in the healing foodchain.

Edited January 23, 2012 by DarthVarrak

[Shammus]

well I wasn't ruling out the possibility of healing, but I can tell you from a raid standpoint there are times where it gets heated and bounty hunters get concerned while healing worrying about heat, etc..etc..

 

whereas sorcerers may never get concerned at all

 

It very well could be the heal style.. I never considered myself a good healer when it came to classes like the mystic / defiler, (reactive heals) two kolto shells are nice, and I am not saying I can't heal hard modes, just that bounty hunter healing can't pull the group out of a hairy situation like sorcs can.

 

I don't think kolto missile heals enough, maybe this could all be balanced out if all of our heals had a hot on them?

 

I'm not sure kolto would be nice if it hit more then 3 targets you can't really use kolto to reliably heal anyone and i'm damn sure not going to shoot a kolto if the tank is taking heavy damage.

 

the problem is when two people start taking heavy damage, maybe its the gruop maybe its me I've already decided to roll a sorcerer healer anyway, but I just felt that personally the bounty hunter needed a buff to healing maybe add a heal over time on the kolto missile that works like your one heal does maybe add a talent for it.. it really doesn't matter, but def a suggestion

 

 

We also cannot heal targets who are not pvp flagged if you are with kolto missile (bug reported this) So say you have o ne person in the group who is pvp flagged you heal him and inherit a flag, and can't heal anyone with kolto who isn't flagged.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Shammus

[DarthVarrak]

You might wanna check the healing guide somewhere in this thread. Supercharged Gas, which is on a short cooldown, vents 16 heat. Not a lot of heat, I know, but it is great to use as often as you are comfortable with because the cd is so short.

 

For times of heavy aoe healing you can pop SG to increase all healing done by 10%, then throw down your aoe which will increase healing to those targets by an additional 5%. SG also gets rid of the cooldown on our fast heal, Healing Scan, so right after your aoe you should be spamming this on your party members, which (if talented correctly) will also give them a small hot. I believe it would go something like this:

 

Healing Scan (to put it on cd), SG (removes heat just caused by HS and buffs healing done, etc), Kolto Missile, HS, HS, HS (party member one, two, and three respectively) if you have time for a fourth one use it on yourself, otherwise just use your 15% health regen cd or your blue shield (always forget the name).

 

Your party member's health should be at a manageable point when this is done and you can degen heat while Rapid Shot healing your party to spot heal until your heat is at a manageable position.

[Shammus]

You might wanna check the healing guide somewhere in this thread. Supercharged Gas, which is on a short cooldown, vents 16 heat. Not a lot of heat, I know, but it is great to use as often as you are comfortable with because the cd is so short.

 

For times of heavy aoe healing you can pop SG to increase all healing done by 10%, then throw down your aoe which will increase healing to those targets by an additional 5%. SG also gets rid of the cooldown on our fast heal, Healing Scan, so right after your aoe you should be spamming this on your party members, which (if talented correctly) will also give them a small hot. I believe it would go something like this:

 

Healing Scan (to put it on cd), SG (removes heat just caused by HS and buffs healing done, etc), Kolto Missile, HS, HS, HS (party member one, two, and three respectively) if you have time for a fourth one use it on yourself, otherwise just use your 15% health regen cd or your blue shield (always forget the name).

 

Your party member's health should be at a manageable point when this is done and you can degen heat while Rapid Shot healing your party to spot heal until your heat is at a manageable position.

 

 

 

Oh I've looked at the guide... supercharged gas isn't on a short cooldown you have to have 30 stacks of combat support cylinder to use it

 

that's 5 heals that cost 25 heat each.. or 10 shots of rapid shots thats actually 10 pressed each press gives you three.

 

So supercharged gas isn't really a reliable way to depend on or vent heat, not only that but while supercarged gas is active it doesn't build stack from combat support cynlinder.

 

I mean i'm disappointed I really am we are clearing normal modes with two bounty hunter healers, but I'd hate to see how hard the heals would be to keep up with in the harder modes.. I may just be speculating and guessing but I've got a full set of gear with lvl 56 mods in it. I have 3 set pieces of pve heal gear, my aim is over 1700 unbuffed without a stim. But if I have a sorc who wants to come and heal, I'm the first one to spec dps, not because I like to dps but because I feel like the sorcs heals are better.

 

 

I am also fully aware of how supercharged gas works, and all it really allows you to do is overheat faster.. same with alacrity I've almost been tempted to try giving up alacrity altogether just to test it, because shorter cast times = more healing done = more heat.

 

 

another thing to consider with kolto missile is you have to ground aim it, people can run out of it trying to avoid mechanics etc..etc.. it would be nice if you could just target the main person you want to heal and it shoots, healing that person for the majority with splash heals to others.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Shammus

[DarthVarrak]

Oh I've looked at the guide... supercharged gas isn't on a short cooldown you have to have 30 stacks of combat support cylinder to use it

 

that's 5 heals that cost 25 heat each.. or 10 shots of rapid shots thats actually 10 pressed each press gives you three.

 

So supercharged gas isn't really a reliable way to depend on or vent heat, not only that but while supercarged gas is active it doesn't build stack from combat support cynlinder.

 

I mean i'm disappointed I really am we are clearing normal modes with two bounty hunter healers, but I'd hate to see how hard the heals would be to keep up with in the harder modes.. I may just be speculating and guessing but I've got a full set of gear with lvl 56 mods in it. I have 3 set pieces of pve heal gear, my aim is over 1700 unbuffed without a stim. But if I have a sorc who wants to come and heal, I'm the first one to spec dps, not because I like to dps but because I feel like the sorcs heals are better.

 

 

I am also fully aware of how supercharged gas works, and all it really allows you to do is overheat faster.. same with alacrity I've almost been tempted to try giving up alacrity altogether just to test it, because shorter cast times = more healing done = more heat.

30 stacks of CSC are easy to keep up. I shoot people with Rapid Shot just because I'm bored and it keeps it up. And the cooldown itself for SG is incredibly short lol. No offense man, but you must be doing something really weird if you have a hard time building stacks of CSC.

 

Also, as already been mentioned, Mercs are meant to be Tank Healers, as emphasized by the restriction of Kolto Shell being on only one target. To run with two of them and expect to not be lacking in raid heals is just bad. My advice, but the other Merc on the backup team and invite a Sorc or Operative healer.

[Shammus]

30 stacks of CSC are easy to keep up. I shoot people with Rapid Shot just because I'm bored and it keeps it up. And the cooldown itself for SG is incredibly short lol. No offense man, but you must be doing something really weird if you have a hard time building stacks of CSC.

 

Also, as already been mentioned, Mercs are meant to be Tank Healers, as emphasized by the restriction of Kolto Shell being on only one target. To run with two of them and expect to not be lacking in raid heals is just bad. My advice, but the other Merc on the backup team and invite a Sorc or Operative healer.

 

 

 

Ok, so I issue you a challenge... go single heal bonethrasher in a normal 8 man raid

 

both a sorc, and an operative can do this.

 

A bounty hunter cannot.

 

I never claimed to have issues building the stacks, but in heavy healing situations you're only going to get a chance to use it once, because your pve set increases its duration (which means with the extended time you CANNOT build stacks) and people are going to start falling quick from trying to heal the group up.

 

Again I'm not here claiming i'm playing the class perfect.. but I do have many years experience healing in other games.. there are a few things I'm going to try in the guide, but reading them haven't changed my concerns about pve healing as a bounty hunter.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Shammus

[Shammus]

I mean all you have to do is compare the abilities

 

Sorcerers:

 

Resurgence costs 30 force to use a sorc has 600 force if they pick up the extra force in the lightning tree.

 

Resurgence lasts for 9 seconds and can be talented to 15 seconds providing the same armor buff as bounty hunters proactive medicine which lasts for 9 seconds

 

Taking force regen and everything out of the equation a sorc could use this ability 20 times before running out of force.

 

As a bounty hunter I could cast a very similar ability 6 times. and it only lasts 9 seconds each.

 

Throw in consumption on a crit above for sorc and one of those will be absolutely free. A sorc could heal forever regenerating 48 force every 10 seconds. the only thing that costs more then 48 is dark infusion, dark heal, and their aoe which is 100 force.. 100 force is roughly what all of their abilities would have to cost in order to put them on par with bounty hunters ability to heal. lets not forget that force bending cuts revivication by 30 points making it cost 70 and that dark heal is also cut in half.

 

 

So now lets compare sorcs resurgence to our healing scan both 9 seconds cooldown, both increase armor.. resurgence for 15 seconds +hot healing scan 9 seconds + hot.

 

Rapid scan can be cast 6.25 times before we overheat removing anyway to eliminate heat.

Resurgance costs 30 force and can be cast 20 times before a sorc cannot heal.

 

dark heal after resurgence is cut to 50 percent costing 25

so dark heal + resurgence costs 55 force meaning a sorc can do this combination 10 times before running out of force

 

a bounty hunter can do this combination 4 times before they have 100 percent heat, even if they vent heat they may get 2 more for a total of six

 

 

 

I'm sure there is some math genius out there who can do the math and figure in global cooldowns etc..etc.. but when a bounty hunter reaches max heat with no way to vent it THEY ARE ****ED and that's the nicest way I can put it.

 

oh if I'm lucky on kolto missile I may hit 1 out of 3 targets for 2k, the rest will be around 1200 the 5 percent is absolutely nothing at a 4k heal if you get a 5 percent from the residue which last for 15 seconds keep in mind losing valuable time trying to aim this on a 5k heal you're going to get what an extra 250? last time I checked that's not even a dent in a mobs damage. and I don't even get 5k heals I see low 4k's but thats after that is already factored in.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Shammus

[Yazule]

i dont heal, but i have a friend that does, his complaints are

 

1) no battle res

 

2)poor aoe healing

 

the koto only grabs three targets which in raid is poor at best, but then again that healing buff makes them awsome support for a class that has better aoe healing

 

i think battle res would be enough to get them back where they want to be, but what do i know, i am a dumb dps.

[All_Under_Heaven]

They can be viable healers but only as pocket or single target healers not for groups.

 

So by your logic, any group that has a full-spec'd Bodyguard will also need at least another full-spec'd Bodyguard or half-spec'd Sorcerer/Operative?

 

Do you think before you type?

 

Bioware has certainly implemented some incredibly stupid class "balances," but to infer that they purposely hamstringed an entire class/spec role is flat insanity. If you truly believe that this is true, you should look into other games.

 

In regards to TC's problem, practice is the only solution. Just heal, everything.

 

And as previous posters have stated, one or more of our abilities could use a slight buff. I personally wish for a Bodyguard talent that would allow another one of our damage abilities to be used as a heal, in the vein of Rapid Shots.

[Nkryptd]

I'm a BH merc healer and I am probably the strongest healer in our guild for PvE, specifically single target tank heals but I do fine healing the raid as well.

 

Also in PvP I crush other healers normally. I am consistently above 300k and I pull 450-480 in a good match.

 

Heat management separates the men from the boys with BH merc healing.

[Fizbanic]

They can be viable healers but only as pocket or single target healers not for groups.

 

So far from the truth that your grand-children's children will not get to it.

 

Watch any of the video's http://www.youtube.com/user/Angeryn and then try to come back here and say that.

 

The video's are from a BH healer.

[Nkryptd]

Ok, so I issue you a challenge... go single heal bonethrasher in a normal 8 man raid

 

both a sorc, and an operative can do this.

 

A bounty hunter cannot.

 

 

That is a valid point. BHs are weakest at healing multiple target damage. I will try to single heal next time and see.

 

I have a challenge for you, take an under-geared tank into pretty much any tank and spank fight and see how long a sorc or operative can keep him up after enrage timer. Now see how long you can do it with Merc.

 

I've found that I can manage it much longer than our sorc or operative healers personally. IE Paladin vs Priest and Druids.

[Fizbanic]

Ok, so I issue you a challenge... go single heal bonethrasher in a normal 8 man raid

 

both a sorc, and an operative can do this.

 

A bounty hunter cannot.

 

 

 

 

There you go one BH Healing Bonethrasher.

 

I have watched this guys videos over the past week when I started my second BH and went heals.

 

Angeryn shows that a BH can heal HM's as well OP's pretty good.

[Xerks]

They can be viable healers but only as pocket or single target healers not for groups.

 

So wrong, you obviously do not know the BH class.

[Epicfael]

I do feel like kolto missle could use a slight buff, as in applying the increased healing buff to everyone hit in the targeted area. The heal itself hitting 3 people is okay to deal with, and the 10% damage reduction to the healed targets is fine as well.

 

I've healed all the hardmode flashpoints and normal/hardmode ops 8 man with an operative as the 2nd healer. Even though we don't have a ton of AOE heals, we can still keep up with raid damage pretty well, even to the point where I can pop in some dps with fusion missile/railshot/rapid shots.

 

Even without any buffs, I still think were strong healers. It's just managing heat, knowing when to pop vent heat and use your CSC charges. It also helps to have my tanks and dps in Vent so I can tell them when they should start thinking about popping medpacs because I'm running high on heat with no heat dissipation ability up.

 

What really helped me was understanding the basic rotations and how effective they are for certain situations. Now, I'm not saying that you stick to rotations all the time, but knowing what they are and do can help you in specific situations.