Op/scoundrel nerf not happening. (the way they purposed it to)

[Pappus]

As i read the purposed nerf to ops/scoundrels i couldn't help to facepalm and think of how made up those numbers seemed. For example 1.5 sec stun from stealth and full resolve bar? a 1.5 sec stun isn't worth it. Classes have an out of stealth stun that completely ignores resolve(sorc electrocute) <-- i'd say that's gamebreaking sirs ..oh and it lasts for 5 secs. with a 1 min cd.

 

I know that ops/scoundrels are the least played class atm. I know they get alot of hate for being accused of "terrible healers. terrible dps" in pve and pvp (healing). they used to do alot of damage..now they don't why? because they're facing lvl 50's with expertise. I asked someone where they got these 8k -10 crit #'s from. He/she (most likely he) pointed me to this vid where this Operative named Chris was buff stacking(doesn't exist anymore). He would pop a relic/adrenal/stim/pvp buff and use hidden strike on lvl 10's. I laughed ..and said this is your proof? Any lvl 50 with expertise and buff stacking can do this(not at once), but major damage to a lowbie.

 

Now as i think about how fast this purposed nerf came. I have come to the conclusion that BW(mythic) does not play the same game we do. They highly favor keeping the "majority" happy. That majority are lightsaber classes exp the sorcs/sages and warrior class. Yep trop/bh and operative/scoundrel get the short end of the stick. Some of you might say "wait BH and Tropper Missle spam" well anyone who playes those classes now can tell you that they nerfed heat. No more missle spam for them. Where are the fixes to Warriors doing 6k aoe hits on fully expertised lvl 50's ? That one aoe ability is completely broken. Electrocute is broken and doesn't effect resolve. My point is a huge player base plays the lightsaber and a minority playes blasters.

 

Soundrels/ops BH/troopers are not well represented on the servers. We can't report reason when we're outnumbered by broken lightsaber classes who keep whining over us.

 

That one guy called himself the "observer" well have you observed that not all of us play jedi? That maybe the class that 70% (hey i can throw imaginary #'s around too) of your gaming population is broken too? Please look into the abilities that ignore relsolve bar and look into warrior aoe ****. thanks

 

Inquisitor stun lasts 4 seconds and fills the resolvebar. To be precise it fills it to the point, that the next cc within short time will trigger resolve. Although people talked about a bug with electrocute.

 

The knockdown triggering a full resolvebar has to be a bug. It will likely end as the assassins knockdown and fill a bar.

[Beeteel]

Full

 

Resolve

 

Bar

 

See why the nerf doesn't work?

 

Here's the deal, no matter how you slice it,

 

OP is a PvP class, reliant on control and burst to be competitive. No gap closer, no mobility, no real ranged damage. It's surprise you're dead or surprise I'm dead. Out of stealth, ops are dead.

 

If a geared op catches you alone, without CDs, then you should die immediately, within the length of the stun. If you don't die, then you cannot be stunned or snared again before you can destroy the op.

 

Now, post nerf, an op cannot kill you. A well played 50 op cannot kill another 50, unless the other player is extremely low on health or an idiot.

 

So, how does this work? We jump out of stealth and knock you down for 1.5 secs, we stab you, you get up with 80% health and crush us or we restealth and run. How does this represent what OPs are supposed to be?

 

The nerf is reactionary and idiotic because there was no quid pro quo in sustained damage. They should have made it half resolve bar or significantly buffed ranged damage potential.

 

 

Im on your side man

[wraithghost]

The reason they all want us nerfed is because we are the ones that kill them when they think they are safe.

 

I for one will go round the back look for someone low and kill them, any class would do this as quick but its the fact they don`t see us coming, also the fact that I bet most of the time we knock someone down in the middle of huttball their are about 4 others attacking them too because on my own unless they suck I cant burst any 50 with good gear down in 3 secs.

[ArmoredJuneBug]

Coming from an Operative myself I have to say that yes, Operative openers were by far too good and they still are.

 

This isn't a game of headshots, thus things must change.

 

There's a lot of things exacerbating this problem, however.

 

 

• Scoundrel/Op attacks are Tech attacks. Thus can't miss, be dodged or procs shields. This makes sense for some types of attacks, not all.
  
• Stealth is only a balanced mechanic as long as you don't have ridiculous openers. I'd rather the opener be fixed than the stealth mechanic nerfed.
  
• Too many abilities and skills buff the opener.
  

 

 

Hidden Strike on its own is quite balanced overall I feel. However, add in 16% crit, 30% extra crit damage, a knockdown, a strong dot and a strong armor debuff (armor being the only defensive mechanic, save active damage reduction abilities, that protect against Scoundrel/Op melee attacks) and you have a disaster on your hands.

 

Personally I feel that most, or even all, of these skills should be re-purposed to buff other aspects of the class rather then nerfed to oblivion because they all buff the stealth opener.

 

Also, I'd rather play a tactically versatile class than a one-trick pony. But that's just my opinion, of course.

 

Will the Scoundrel/Op have to be buffed in other ways if the opener is reigned in? Maybe.

 

That's a completely separate issue, however, and one I'm sure BioWare will monitor as closely as they have this issue.

[Nowyourdead]

No, operatives need to be nerfed. Any class that can take down another player from 100% to 0% without them being able to respond is overpowered.

 

I guess you should also want every other class nerfed that can kill you 1 on 1 as well right?

 

Start crying more about BH and tanks, get them nerfed while you are at it so no other class is viable or useful anymore. Nerf warriors too while we're at it, wouldn't want any useful classes except casters.

 

Oh and make casters invincible while the stand still and spam, that way they can't die at all so 50% of the playerbase is happy.

[AlexisSteel]

I am not number cruncher, nor am I big on PVP. I can tell you I don't see lot complaints about how Scoundrels are over powered in PVE. The fact this nerf soul reason is to reduce the Scoundrels/ops pvp performance urks the ever loving day lights out of me.

 

I played this class because the utility it offers, a little bit everything so I can help my guild in several capacities. In PVE I don't think we over perform or under preform. With on level solo stuff I have to set up my fights use the right companions or get my butt handed to me. If it's a long fight it gets pretty tough. If I was so OP then I should just be rolling through stuff it would seem to me. I still have to find partners for Heroics on level at 42. Certainly one the things I relied on was being able to remove at least one the mobs quickly with my burst damage then slogging through the rest. Mobs are always that mobs/groups so thinning them out with one quick kill was my main go to strategy. So yes this nerf seems really heavy handed to me.

 

If it's problem with PVP, why not just reduce the damage/stun/duration it dose to other players. For the love of pete I get so tired of PVP tromping all over PVE when comes to these sort of changes.

[VashsEden]

This has got to be one of the dumbest things I've seen a dev do in an MMO. I get it. Operatives burst with the old pvp rules of combining expertise was stupid. Not we can't do that. Hrmmm, NOW our 5k+ opener is 4k now and we can only use ONE ability afterwards? So mayyyyybe we can hit you for like 8k one a good day and with your 17k+ health you can turn around and kite/CC/ruthlessly murder us b/c now we are screwed. Burst is gone, resolve already gives us problems in long fights after an opener and if it's a healer we are trying to drop, forget it. Just run up to him/her outta stealth just so you get more interupts? *** is with this? I can't believe they gave into QQing little *********** scrubs that havn't even geared up in PVP yet..... and I wanted to like this game... Not even going to start on how screwed we are in PvE...

[Thotor]

I know that ops/scoundrels are the least played class atm.

In WZs ? I think not. In our server, Op are starting to pop everyday to a point that is has become unplayable for tanking class.

It is the same as biochem, if bioware nerf it, it's because too many people are starting to rolling Op/Scoundrel and that they have metrics that shows they take down too fast targets.

 

That's a fact.

 

They are not nerfing because people whine about it. I am sure they couldn't care less about it.

 

 

Now wether the current nerf is justified is an other story.

People should make remarks on what should and should not be changed instead of blindly refusing any nerf. Because in the current state, this class is OP and you all know it.

 

Also remember that in every MMO class have ups and downs. If you quit playing your class because it got nerf, than it only means that you play it because it was powerfull.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Thotor

[Carbonated]

Your so full of crap its not even funny

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRtEeMg2YJ4&feature=youtu.be

 

Watch that video. that is a completely naked jugg, and the op has 403 expertise.

 

Buff stacking is GONE like how it use to be. Ops can no longer come close to the burst damage they once had....so stop living in the past.

 

Sick of people like you causing my class to get nerfed, making it worthless for Pve due to stupid forum qq. Which is whats happening

 

Yeah cuz the juggs not getting any reduction from anywhere else ammirite? and the dot it applies ? yeah needs to be buffed...

 

Show us the other melee classes hitting for 5k in the opening shot.

[Ljungen]

Smugglers have taken down my 50 juggernaut in T1/2 PvP gear several times during knowckdown/stun.

Incase they don´t manage to kill me I usually have so little HP left that it doesn´t matter.

 

Not to say that it always happen but often enough.

[DirtyDiggler]

I have never played an OP but have battled them pre and post 1.1 and I never thought they were that groundbreaking OP. They use to get me alot of times as I play a soc and stay near the back spaming lightning so I was easy pickings for them.

 

but its all strengths and weaknesses. The main problem in this game was relics and buff stacking ect. I remember before using them my soc would struggle and I use to think alot of classes were better then mine. Could never land big hits ect....

 

Then I got the good relics for power and crit hit, would stack them with reck and aren ect and then I started murdering people. I would imagine it was the same for ops, they didn't need a nerf the class will be destroyed Bioware just made buffs to OP

[Tiaa]

 

I know that ops/scoundrels are the least played class atm.

 

Judging by the amount of people complaining about the nerf on this forum, I don't think OPs are the least played class.

 

 

Mainly because they knew they were a FOTM class and PvP easy mode for the most part.

 

Probably the same people that picked up Slicing, BioChem and Sorc class

 

Scoundrels aren't played much yes, but Empire has a ton of OPs. This is why you see most people complaining about "OP and Sorc" nerfs.

 

Getting knocked down and killed in three seconds every now in then is ok. But when it happens most of the match...anyways... I think stealth is the lamest mechanic ever to put in games to begin with.

 

It was lame in Ultima Online, it's lame now.

[Aisar]

I am so glad I am heal spec with my Operative so I can easily justify getting completely OMGWTFPWNDLOL and still do meh dmg. I mean my dmg is ok, but I can't kill much.

 

But I am heal spec, so I heal reel good. Which is all that matters because i can last for quite a while 1v1 if I just heal myself nonstop. There is no end result but death for me since I can't heal and dps but it's fun to heal lots and lots.

 

lots and lots and lots..lots..lots..and lots..

Edited January 23, 2012 by Aisar

[Pherenice]

Control check

Burst check

Sustained damage check

Stealth check

reset combat check

Heal check

^-----The above is all putted in 1 Advanced class witch is quite OP.

 

If it was so in pvp that you at max health i perhaps could counter some damage / control

But the fact is a good Ops / Soundrel takes you down from 100 to 0 and hops onto the next target like we dint excist.

 

Nerf incomming as no class should have to be this OP.

[Rinkitink]

Smugglers have taken down my 50 juggernaut in T1/2 PvP gear several times during knowckdown/stun.

Incase they don´t manage to kill me I usually have so little HP left that it doesn´t matter.

 

Not to say that it always happen but often enough.

 

What a load of crap. I run around with my friend who's a scoundrel all the time, yes he can do a good chunk of damage in the knock down, but it's nowhere near their full health bar. The only reason he kills them fast at all is because I'm helping. Once he gets past the knock down/opener damage, his sustained damage is AWFUL. So now you want to nerf the only real damage they have?

 

Knee jerk reactions like this to balance are pretty ridiculous.

[Goretzu]

Yeah, these days we get to toss 2 instant abilities in before we're dead. ALL FIXED. WORKING AS INTENDED. Derp.

 

Any class like that always gets nerfed, I dunno why people think they won't.

[Suntar]

Fact is nobody like being jumped from stealth and getting little time to react before being dead.

 

Lack of combat logs mean people assume all damage they are taking is from that op/ scoundrel when in reality they are taking damage from multiple sources.

 

However how would you beat an equally gear tank or healer without those abilities? The problem its a very tough thing to balance.

 

Please please please don't let the PVE op/ socundrel dps suffer with these changes.

[Mandrax]

In-game metrics to which we don't have access.

/thread

 

Indeed.

[Palaine]

Can we at least have abilties in PvP function independently of PvE gameplay, please? I'm tired of MMOs where the neverending nerf-fest perpetuated by the ever-complaining PvP segment carries over to the rest of the game without a thought given on how this will impact class performance in group and solo play.

 

After all, we're not talking super-intricate mechanics here, but issues that could be resolved by things like "IF warzone = 1 THEN stun for 2 seconds ELSE stun for 3 seconds".

[Gomla]

The only time I had a problem with Operatives/Scoundrels was when I tried to to be a solo hero on my Sorc and run along the platforms in Huttball or take a beacon in Alderaan on my own.

 

They are the slaughters of stragglers who's sole purpose was to pick of undefended healers, solo heroes and other unlucky types.

 

I have never had a problem with them on my Commando medic purely because I try and stay close to a tank who, more often than not, slaps guard on me.

 

I can honestly say I didn't think they needed a nerf.

 

If I died to one when I was running off on my own then it was my own damn fault.

 

If you stay with a couple of people then there is less chance of them getting the drop on you. If they do get the drop on you then you at least have someone watching your back.

[Ljungen]

What a load of crap. I run around with my friend who's a scoundrel all the time, yes he can do a good chunk of damage in the knock down, but it's nowhere near their full health bar. The only reason he kills them fast at all is because I'm helping. Once he gets past the knock down/opener damage, his sustained damage is AWFUL. So now you want to nerf the only real damage they have?

 

Knee jerk reactions like this to balance are pretty ridiculous.

 

Have never stated anything regarding what I think about the nerfing.

I just stated what has happened to me at several occasions.

[LogicalPremise]

Can we at least have abilties in PvP function independently of PvE gameplay, please? I'm tired of MMOs where the neverending nerf-fest perpetuated by the ever-complaining PvP segment carries over to the rest of the game without a thought given on how this will impact class performance in group and solo play.

 

After all, we're not talking super-intricate mechanics here, but issues that could be resolved by things like "IF warzone = 1 THEN stun for 2 seconds ELSE stun for 3 seconds".

 

Absolutely not , brother. If we suffer, you suffer with us, it's the only we hope of not being thermonuclear nerfed into the ground,

[MightyHalo]

i couldn't have made it shorter ..possibly read that part with the youtube video i watched ..where 100%-0% only happens to lvl 10's with buff stacking. all those problems are gone now ...thanks

 

At 50 with 400+expertise health only drops to 10%.

[MightyHalo]

It is funny since the nerd was announced the typical OP's and scoundrels re-rolled to troopers.

 

Always following the OP classes.

[rzrknight]

As i read the purposed nerf to ops/scoundrels i couldn't help to facepalm and think of how made up those numbers seemed. For example 1.5 sec stun from stealth and full resolve bar? a 1.5 sec stun isn't worth it. Classes have an out of stealth stun that completely ignores resolve(sorc electrocute) <-- i'd say that's gamebreaking sirs ..oh and it lasts for 5 secs. with a 1 min cd.

 

I stopped here ... since when does electrocute ignore resolve?