Why make excuses For MMO's at launch?

[smartalectwo]

a better UI 8 years ago in 2004?

 

A better UI in 2004? Are you sure? At the very least, SW:TOR's UI makes an attempt at being central. WoW's UI was all over the place! Health bars and target at the top of the screen, party display down the side, map in the top right corner, buttons along the bottom - you had to look all over the place to get an idea of what was going on. Map didn't include enemy dots. World map didn't allow you to look inside buildings. You couldn't move anything without a third-party mod. Inventory was split over 5 different bags.

 

I think SW:TOR's learned more lessons than you think in this regard.

Edited January 22, 2012 by smartalectwo

[Setanian]

As opposed to WoW, which was still just as buggy five years after launch?

 

The same bugs or different bugs due to expansions and enhancements? There is a difference.

 

The simple fact! is this game is built on the gut soy a 2005 engine that was incomplete and then modified to work for a game being launched in 2011.

 

There is no going back, what you have with this engine is what you see. You can pull statistics out of your pants all night, but they will not negate the fact that this engine is not up to the game and will never be without a radical overhaul which will costs many more millions.

 

And there-in lies the huge problem. With a known problem like this engine, you cannot afford to rebuild it. 30% of the incoming subs are paid to the IP. Before they can even begin to think about tweaking it, they'll need to recoup the original outlay, and that is going to take a long time.

 

Add to all that on the horizon, are, GW2 (which will pull many players from all existing MMOs), D3 which will decimate some MMOs and Blizzard's own in development MMO which I think it is fair to say will be an MMO killer.

 

The only thing paying the ToR way forward is subscriptions. I don't believe there will be enough to make this game the game, it should have been.

 

You don't have to agree with me.

[Raventhorpe]

 

People are faulting it for its core design flaws, for a terrible engine choice, for gamebreaking issues, population imbalance, incompetent 1.1 patch that broke pvp, and all the beta bugs still being in the game after being repeatdly pointed out to the devs during BETA.

 

This is for a game that cost 200$ million dollars, that saved money on QA by outsourcing it to India? ROFL

 

People are faulting it for its core design flaws, for a terrible engine choice, for gamebreaking issues... This is people saying the game is bugged/broken because it is not what I had imagined it would be. Purely opinoin and as such irrelevant.

 

population imbalance - Sure it's the Devs fault that pops are imbalanced. Because the fact the players want to roll a particular faction is entirely a game design fault.

 

and all the beta bugs still being in the game after being repeatdly pointed out to the devs during BETA. Well this here is you saying you know the full list of fixes they need to make and the priority order they have.

[Volksworgen]

As opposed to WoW, which was still just as buggy five years after launch?

 

While I take a break from my homework I jump in here and read some nonsense and gibberish. There are mature posts too, but the previous trumps the latter. Anyways to make it easy for you to think or ANYONE else posting on these forums. Pretend like WoW never existed and then talk about how good or bad this game is. Try it and you will surprised, because with or without WoW's existence, this game is not in great shape at the moment. Can improve later on, but I personally, expected more from a $300 million game and company such as Bioware. Bringing other MMO's to compare or protect this game is getting old now and not very effective. Look at the game itself. Do you think is that what you should be playing in the year 2012?

[Tronics]

No, but are you, and were you able to get to lvl 50 without game breaking issues? seems you may have, so that means you must have played through swtor to get to lvl 50, how can there be game breaking issues if you've managed to get to lvl 50, or do you mean you came across some bugs, but they didn't stop you playing on to lvl 50, or do you mean at level 50 there are bugs that stop you playing. My point sir is there is no bugs that have stopped me being able to play or to stop others reaching level 50, so using the term game breaking is hardly appropriate, but thats just my opinion.

 

Are you lvl 50 yet?

[failr]

A better UI in 2004? Are you sure? At the very least, SW:TOR's UI makes an attempt at being central. WoW's UI was all over the place! Health bars and target at the top of the screen, party display down the side, map in the top right corner, buttons along the bottom - you had to look all over the place to get an idea of what was going on. Map didn't include enemy dots. World map didn't allow you to look inside buildings. You couldn't move anything without a third-party mod. Inventory was split over 5 different bags.

 

I think SW:TOR's learned more lessons than you think in this regard.

 

WOW UI was customisable with addons at the start, how about SWTOR? Yes wow had a better UI at launch.

[Setanian]

A better UI in 2004? Are you sure? At the very least, SW:TOR's UI makes an attempt at being central. WoW's UI was all over the place! Health bars and target at the top of the screen, party display down the side, map in the top right corner, buttons along the bottom - you had to look all over the place to get an idea of what was going on. Map didn't include enemy dots. World map didn't allow you to look inside buildings. You couldn't move anything without a third-party mod. Inventory was split over 5 different bags.

 

I think SW:TOR's learned more lessons than you think in this regard.

 

Except, the killer, you are stuck with the UI now unless they recode the thing. You must remember, back then 2004? UI placement was a learning curve. WoW started that curve and even added the ability to modify it to your own liking. One would expect any MMO there-after to have a modifiable UI.

 

But the 2011 game of the planet, the most anticipated game for years, launched with a UI that cannot be tailored and is buggy to boot.

[SamuraBob_Fl]

The same bugs or different bugs due to expansions and enhancements? There is a difference.

 

The simple fact! is this game is built on the gut soy a 2005 engine that was incomplete and then modified to work for a game being launched in 2011.

 

There is no going back, what you have with this engine is what you see. You can pull statistics out of your pants all night, but they will not negate the fact that this engine is not up to the game and will never be without a radical overhaul which will costs many more millions.

 

And there-in lies the huge problem. With a known problem like this engine, you cannot afford to rebuild it. 30% of the incoming subs are paid to the IP. Before they can even begin to think about tweaking it, they'll need to recoup the original outlay, and that is going to take a long time.

 

Add to all that on the horizon, are, GW2 (which will pull many players from all existing MMOs), D3 which will decimate some MMOs and Blizzard's own in development MMO which I think it is fair to say will be an MMO killer.

 

The only thing paying the ToR way forward is subscriptions. I don't believe there will be enough to make this game the game, it should have been.

 

You don't have to agree with me.

 

That's a gross over-exaggeration. The whole "hero-engine suxxorz" thing was created out of thin air a couple weeks ago when the haters started grasping for straws.

 

This game has a major problem with ability delay, that's about it. This game is as buggy as every MMO is, and will be. It has bugs now, and it will have bugs for as long as it stays open.

[failr]

People are faulting it for its core design flaws, for a terrible engine choice, for gamebreaking issues... This is people saying the game is bugged/broken because it is not what I had imagined it would be. Purely opinoin and as such irrelevant.

 

population imbalance - Sure it's the Devs fault that pops are imbalanced. Because the fact the players want to roll a particular faction is entirely a game design fault.

 

and all the beta bugs still being in the game after being repeatdly pointed out to the devs during BETA. Well this here is you saying you know the full list of fixes they need to make and the priority order they have.

 

No, my friend, you can say that ability delay is my imagination all you want.

 

I d just like you to take your pink glasses off and go youtube some ability delay videos instead.

[Setanian]

People are faulting it for its core design flaws, for a terrible engine choice, for gamebreaking issues... This is people saying the game is bugged/broken because it is not what I had imagined it would be. Purely opinoin and as such irrelevant.

 

Wrong! Go read about the engine, the state it was in when bought, and the problems with it now. Please don't state opinion to someone else when you are ignorant of the facts.

[dangerusdave]

Anyone with any knowledge of what to expect from a released game, should realize that this is not a finished product.

a bug here, and a bug there, No problem.

But as someone said earlier, this game is so full of flaws that its embarrasing.

 

Having mirrored classes that differ 50% in cooldowns.

The ilum f-up

They could have saved themselves a ******** of trouble by activly looking at what happened with ilum, and actually done something about it, but decided to act about 24hours too late.

 

And to not mention incompetent CS personel, i remember seeing a ss of some gm asking if bla bla was a flashpoint, for example. (could have been fake, but i doubt it)

 

weekly quests not completing.

such a simple thing as not beeing able to abandon quests.

 

these arent flaws. these are major blindspots.

 

So saying that this game is complete or implying its a new game "deal with it, or go back to wow" Is just ignorant at best.

[Setanian]

That's a gross over-exaggeration. The whole "hero-engine suxxorz" thing was created out of thin air a couple weeks ago when the haters started grasping for straws.

 

This game has a major problem with ability delay, that's about it. This game is as buggy as every MMO is, and will be. It has bugs now, and it will have bugs for as long as it stays open.

 

There is no exaggeration. Go learn about the Hero Engine. Here's a starting point, it's a 2005 engine, bought when it it was in it's infancy. That's not opinion, it is fact as said by the engine authors.

[failr]

No, but are you, and were you able to get to lvl 50 without game breaking issues? seems you may have, so that means you must have played through swtor to get to lvl 50, how can there be game breaking issues if you've managed to get to lvl 50, or do you mean you came across some bugs, but they didn't stop you playing on to lvl 50, or do you mean at level 50 there are bugs that stop you playing. My point sir is there is no bugs that have stopped me being able to play or to stop others reaching level 50, so using the term game breaking is hardly appropriate, but thats just my opinion.

 

See and there it is, another fanboy that hasn't hit 50 yet, who would ve thought.

 

As for me, I got an operative to 50, did some pvp, cleared every HM flashpoint cept for foundry 3 times each(cause foundry last boss was bugged), went to raid with my guild we cleared 4/5 nightmare in 2 days of raiding, completed every single space mission atleast twice, got all my crafting to max and affections with companions to max, got my max speed mount, and haven't skipped a line of dialogue with a spacebar aside from hearing it for a second time, oh and collected half of the data crones.

 

So yes, I can say I ve seen the game and what it has to offer, and it is broken. So please, trust me, get to 50, and then form your opinion.

Edited January 22, 2012 by failr

[Gazzzenn]

disagree to some agree with some

 

yes this has been a better launch than wow but remember technology only gets better and wow launched 7 years ago in this day and age SWTOR should have had this game polished and it is not even close. And in my opinion and same for alot more people the game was not ready for launch they should have gave it another maybe 6 months

 

but nope they wanted the xmas money num num num

 

what christmas money? everyone is skint or not spending it due to the worst global economic downturn in history.

 

they should have released the game in a better state at any time simply due to the small fact they would have gotten more subs and more would have bought the game knowing it was in better shape, there will be countless people that want to play the game but are waiting a given period for these main issue's to be resolved before sinking time into this game.

 

what is causing the issues is of greater concern though, performance from computers should be far far far higher this game is not good enough to tax high end systems yet somehow it is, thats dire optimisation which is suppose to be done before release.

 

the other issues so many seem to have is a clear sign they were not ready, the launcher issues patching issues corrupt file issues and so on.

 

the small fact the launcher is done by a 3rd party...i mean really? are they joking even with all their devs they couldn't do their own? that worries me.

 

hero engine....was not finished when it was taken up by bioware, they had only a vague idea of how well it would actually work, granted probably a very educated idea but did they overestimate it's ability? it's certainly possible.

 

blaaa i went on a tangent...just just sooo disapointed.

[Tronics]

No No No, wasn't saying you are, but the point I tried to get across earlier when I saw a post complaining about the amount of bugs in game at release, was that alot of bugs are not always game related, which your post proves my point as in I don't get them bugs like you do, so it has alot more to do with hardware/software then just the game, but trying to explain that to someone who is blinkered and blames they game for everything is like pissing against a brick wall.

 

 

Ability delay ?

Uncountable exploits ?

Many people can't even play the game cause of the flicking issue ?

Stupid glitch in thier server that can heat some ppl GUP's and cause the flicking as well

 

And the list so long, I'm not your enemy I'm just telling you my opinion.

 

Thanks

[SamuraBob_Fl]

There is no exaggeration. Go learn about the Hero Engine. Here's a starting point, it's a 2005 engine, bought when it it was in it's infancy. That's not opinion, it is fact as said by the engine authors.

 

Yeah, I read that article. They said "Gordon Walton licensed the unfinished engine from us then Bioware customized it later."

 

Somehow people with poor reading comprehension skills and a tenuous grasp of logic started trumpeting that as evidence that there was a problem with the engine, despite the complete absurdity of it.

 

I actually don't understand how they've gotten away with it for so long.

[failr]

No No No, wasn't saying you are, but the point I tried to get across earlier when I saw a post complaining about the amount of bugs in game at release, was that alot of bugs are not always game related, which your post proves my point as in I don't get them bugs like you do, so it has alot more to do with hardware/software then just the game, but trying to explain that to someone who is blinkered and blames they game for everything is like pissing against a brick wall.

 

Again, you haven't seen a smither of the game yet, get to 50, try some hard modes, some raids, try Illum. Then form your opinion of how "polished" it is after you actually seen it.

[Tronics]

Try bloody reading my posts, you said there are game breaking issues, if you have done all you have said you have done, then there aren't that many game breaking issues is there? Stop saying game breaking issues when you mean bugs that effect PARTS of the game, they do not stop you from playing....

 

 

See and there it is, another fanboy that hasn't hit 50 yet, who would ve thought.

 

As for me, I got an operative to 50, did some pvp, cleared every HM flashpoint cept for foundry 3 times each(cause foundry last boss was bugged), went to raid with my guild we cleared 4/5 nightmare in 2 days of raiding, completed every single space mission atleast twice, got all my crafting to max and affections with companions to max, got my max speed mount, and haven't skipped a line of dialogue with a spacebar aside from hearing it for a second time, oh and collected half of the data crones.

 

So yes, I can say I ve seen the game and what it has to offer, and it is broken. So please, trust me, get to 50, and then form your opinion.

[Spartanik]

responding to the OP. the issue its that isnt and excuse, i for once want a MMO that would be perfect at launch. But that isnt the truth at all. that is why people say it.

I recon massive virtual games online, are very very complex, and takes much time to find the bugs and fix the bugs, and adding content will only bring more varieables to the table, more complexity, that is why it takes alot of time to build and polish and MMO. nd most of the bugs only apear after the games are live, with alot of trafic of players etc.

I remember reading somewhere taht at one point near the launch Ultima Online had ten of thouhsands bugs and issues, that the devs couldnt see it before.

Its how it goes. FPS and other games online are much more simpler more linear less variables less bugs. basicaly because they arent a massive virtual world online.

 

At this point we can say swtor given its circunstances its as polished as can get, and certainly the most polished MMO i played and see it at launch, and probably most MMO vets would agree with this. off course that doesnt mean its lacking on end game pvp and other several issues still.

In time this game will be great, im certain of it.

 

Originally Posted by Setanian

One would expect any MMO there-after to have a modifiable UI.

sight.... it will come in March.. dont you see the vid?

Edited January 22, 2012 by Spartanik

[Raventhorpe]

Wrong! Go read about the engine, the state it was in when bought, and the problems with it now. Please don't state opinion to someone else when you are ignorant of the facts.

 

Read about the engine for what. It's the engine they chose to build the game on. As such thats how they wanted the game to be. If you don't like the engine they chose makes you dislike that game thats fine. You are entitled to your opinion. Does not make anything broken.

[Setanian]

No No No, wasn't saying you are, but the point I tried to get across earlier when I saw a post complaining about the amount of bugs in game at release, was that alot of bugs are not always game related, which your post proves my point as in I don't get them bugs like you do, so it has alot more to do with hardware/software then just the game, but trying to explain that to someone who is blinkered and blames they game for everything is like pissing against a brick wall.

 

Well to use your analogy, the wall BW tried to piss over was obviously way above their head.

 

Where your argument falls down is this; BW posted minimum specs. Players with specs way above the required are having problems.

 

And do you know why? Because the engine they bought was rated at those specs, and then they modified and re-developed the engine to do what they needed, (and failed) and in so doing, the specs that the engine were for went out the window.

 

I'll pretty much bet that not even the developers know what specs are required for their frankenstein engine.

[Jswizzle]

It's not an excuse to say MMO's always launch with crappy endgame. It's a fact.

[Gazzzenn]

Yeah, I read that article. They said "Gordon Walton licensed the unfinished engine from us then Bioware customized it later."

 

Somehow people with poor reading comprehension skills and a tenuous grasp of logic started trumpeting that as evidence that there was a problem with the engine, despite the complete absurdity of it.

 

I actually don't understand how they've gotten away with it for so long.

 

the fact is even the creators of the hero engine didn't know how good it would end up being.

 

you can for all intents create a game using the unreal 3 engine, you know what to expect as it is a finished game engine, tried and tested before being released to the market.

 

can you spot the difference?

 

bioware took up the hero engine rightly or wrongly in an unfinished state and had no idea whether it would even work as it had never been used before or properly tested as it was not finished to be tested in the first place.

 

and you go on about poor reading skills? that goes both ways.

[smartalectwo]

One would expect any MMO there-after to have a modifiable UI.

 

This sort of thinking really has to stop. How long did it take for a customisable UI to finally become a default feature in WoW? Years. It took years for that game to reach a point at which the game's developers could devote time to modifying their UI. Until that point, they were busy with needed bugfixes, balance issues and content additions.

 

But every other game after WoW needs to launch with customisable UI straight off the bat, and with every other feature too, or it has failed, somehow? I don't buy that. It took years for WoW's UI redesign to come because that game's developers recognised UI redesign for what it is - a handy feature, but nothing more, something not urgent. SWTOR's developers have seemingly made the same decision. Faulting one but not the other for coming to the same conclusion is nonsense.

[Setanian]

Read about the engine for what. It's the engine they chose to build the game on. As such thats how they wanted the game to be. If you don't like the engine they chose makes you dislike that game thats fine. You are entitled to your opinion. Does not make anything broken.

 

Ah, so everyone having any problems are making them up. Sorry fell off my chair there, I laughed so much.