Lormif Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 You cannot, in any way, compare an OS to a game. Actually I was not directly comparing the game to an OS. Someone earlier posted, if you read the entire post, that MMOs are much more complex then a single player, therefore should not be held to the same standard, and I pointed out that OSes are very much more complex then an MMO and held to an even higher standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjerlol Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Which bugs did you report during Beta? Don't tell me that JK large butt in robes just magicaly appeared at launch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraBob_Fl Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Well that would take a leaf of faith as there' aren't any. It's still better than WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tronics Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Going of yor avatar pic, if you have picked it to reseble your age, you should then know regardless that ever since mmo's started, they have always been incomplete and grow over time. If your a computer engineer, you know or should know more than most and how difficult it would be to release any game into the public domain without problems based on the amount of computer variations. That alone will cause more problems than anything else. But you know this already Right? You'll also know that when one bug gets fixed it can cause another to appear, so it's always an ongoing thing, even now wow isn't bug free after 7 years. And lastly computer software are nothing like other consumer products, they are always being updated after you've made the one purchase regardless of what software you buy. Goes for drivers for hardware, they are always ongoing and have to be, otherwise they become out of date and obsolete. But you should know that being a computer engineers:rolleyes: Not forgetting the graphic card drivers that cause more problems then any other hardware. Actually I have no anger or rage, I am enjoying the game, just happen to be at work atm. I am a computer engineer so I dislike the fallacy that just because something changes it should allowed to have tons of bugs on release, or because another company did not hold itself to the Software development and professional standards that others should not be expected too as well. Edited January 22, 2012 by Tronics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayana Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 The basic thing is yes it can not be bug free but then why get people doing BETA for soo long if........... the bugs that were reported do not get fixed before launch ? Because quite simply they are thinking about money before anything else. You honestly believe that NO bugs were fixed in beta? That's just not realistic at all. There's only so much you can do before launch but that doesn't mean that they aren't aware of or working on the bugs that were brought up in beta it's just that at some point you've got to say it's close enough and move ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyInternets Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Why hold an MMO at launch to standards even MMOs that have existed for years can't meet? The question you should be asking yourself is "Why have I lowered my standards to the point where poor quality is not only accepted, but expected?" Edited January 22, 2012 by DannyInternets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraBob_Fl Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 The question you should be asking yourself is "Why have I lowered my standards to the point where poor quality is not only accepted, but expected?" Oh that's easy. 5 years of playing WoW will do that to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 It's still better than WoW. In your opinion.. And you know what they say about those.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Going of yor avatar pic, if you have picked it to reseble your age, you should then know regardless that ever since mmo's started, they have always been incomplete and grow over time. If your a computer engineer, you know or should know more than most and how difficult it would be to release any game into the public domain without problems based on the amount of computer variations. That alone will cause more problems than anything else. But you know this already Right? You'll also know that when one bug gets fixed it can cause another to appear, so it's always an ongoing thing, even now wow isn't bug free after 7 years. And lastly computer software are nothing like other consumer products, they are always being updated after you've made the one purchase regardless of what software you buy. Goes for drivers for hardware, they are always ongoing and have to be, otherwise they become out of date and obsolete. But you should know that being a computer engineers:rolleyes: Not forgetting the graphic card drivers that cause more problems then any other hardware. But games are a consumer product... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Oh that's easy. 5 years of playing WoW will do that to you. Like I said, you have no credibility in comparing ToR tp WoW, so just stop. What other MMOs have you played for more then 6 months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lormif Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Going of yor avatar pic, if you have picked it to reseble your age, you should then know regardless that ever since mmo's started, they have always been incomplete and grow over time. First, logical leap, I am assuming you are talking to me... Second yes, I know preveious games have not been held to stanards, and fix their bugs later, that however does not, and should not, mean that I should stop holding them to the proper standards. If your a computer engineer, you know or should know more than most and how difficult it would be to release any game into the public domain without problems based on the amount of computer variations. That alone will cause more problems than anything else. But you know this already Right? First, this is not the public domain in any sense. It is not in terms of copyright, in addition it is a private game since you need a subscription, but I digress. All software has bugs, everyone knows this. The problem is the amount, type of bugs, and the speed they are repaired. In addition to anyone who knows the above they should know that the more users the faster bugs will appear.. That being said BW decided to not have an open beta, but short beta weekends, and small invite only closed beta so none of that is even really an excuse. You'll also know that when one bug gets fixed it can cause another to appear, so it's always an ongoing thing, even now wow isn't bug free after 7 years. And lastly computer software are nothing like other consumer products, they are always being updated after you've made the one purchase regardless of what software you buy. Goes for drivers for hardware, they are always ongoing and have to be, otherwise they become out of date and obsolete. But you should know that being a computer engineers:rolleyes: Again, just because you are apathetic to the state of the software industry does not mean that I have to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tronics Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 If you want any game to be relatively bug free, then your going to have to wait more than 5 years for release of any game. It will never be possible to have any game relatively bug free. Also as mmo's are ongoing and have major updates, they will always bring new bugs along during the game life span. If you know and expect these things, playing mmo's is much more enjoyable. If you want them to be perfect on release or less bugs, then sorry you shouldn't be playing mmo games. And logic leap, yes as I quoted your post;) also your a customer so yes it's public domain. First, logical leap, I am assuming you are talking to me... Second yes, I know preveious games have not been held to stanards, and fix their bugs later, that however does not, and should not, mean that I should stop holding them to the proper standards. First, this is not the public domain in any sense. It is not in terms of copyright, in addition it is a private game since you need a subscription, but I digress. All software has bugs, everyone knows this. The problem is the amount, type of bugs, and the speed they are repaired. In addition to anyone who knows the above they should know that the more users the faster bugs will appear.. That being said BW decided to not have an open beta, but short beta weekends, and small invite only closed beta so none of that is even really an excuse. Again, just because you are apathetic to the state of the software industry does not mean that I have to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverendingname Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 Which bugs did you report during Beta? Well first of all i reported 1: Ability delay 2: unload for BH keeps animating even when running away 3:Force lightning keeps animating even when running away 4: Speeders not activating when bast bar is done and unmounting if moveing These are the bugs i reported and alll still in the game. How can people say its OK for all these bugs at launch. people say give 6 months...... People saying give 6 months are just being unrealistic really, soo 6 months is a good amount of time ? well maybe they should have held off the release for 6 moths Problem solved But holding off the release 6 months would have. 1: Missed the xmas money making. 2: Made the fans unhappy. 3: Probably not made a difference they would have just slowed everything down more and not sorted any of the bugs anyway. But not releasing before xmas wouldnt have made them as much money, soo do wee then blame BW and EA for releasing a game early too make more money ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvonuk Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Most people dont need everything to be perfect and working exactly in order to enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lormif Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 If you want any game to be relatively bug free, then your going to have to wait more than 5 years for release of any game. It will never be possible to have any game relatively bug free. Also as mmo's are ongoing and have major updates, they will always bring new bugs along during the game life span. If you know and expect these things, playing mmo's is much more enjoyable. If you want them to be perfect on release or less bugs, then sorry you shouldn't be playing mmo games. And logic leap, yes as I quoted your post;) also your a customer so yes it's public domain. Again, just because you are apathetic to the state of the software industry does not mean that I have to be. Where in that post did I say I wanted it to be bug free.. And yes it is not normal for people to post above a quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tronics Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I did say nothing like other consumer products, I didn't say they were'nt consumer products, software is coding, not s solid object, hence human error will accure only because one software product is made to work on thousands of different variations of hardware, and cannot be prodicted how software will react on each individual machine. Were as a solid object like cars are made to a standard specifaction and work with the same engine for everyone, as do kettles/toaster and so on. Software is one standard coding that has to work on too many variations of machines, so you'll never be bug free. But games are a consumer product... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroseby Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Well what i keep reading in these threads is mostly people making excuses for MMO's at launch, In my understanding MMO means Massivly Multiplayer Online. Soo why do people make excuses for MMO's at launch? When we buy an MMO game, we do not buy it for constant bugs and things not working as they should. People make too many excuses for these companies and developers of these games. Does not matter what excuses are going to be said in this thread. I bought this game for fun and it should not matter if i buy this game at launch, or 6 months after launch i should get the same experiance there is no excuse for that. What is the point of BETA for soo long if launch is not going to be perfect (or atleast close) People giving theses companies the excuse of ''ALL MMO'S ARE THE SAME AT LAUNCH'' is not the answer. Giving them this excuse lets them bring out MMO's before they are actually ready giving profit from a game that is still in BETA stages. SWTOR BETA TESTING I have read muliple threads about BW not fixing bugs that were reported in BETA and the bugs are still in game, I blame mostly the '' ALL MMO'S ARE THE SAME AT LAUNCH EXCUSES'' without these the companies and developers would work harder to get the MMO up to scratch before launch. Ok soo i know i am going to get people hating my opinions and soo on but who agrees with me and why ???????? Thanks for your time and patiance this was bigger than i thought i would have been may the force be with u all Hey read your post. long term wow player here as is my wife (pally tank b/elf [me] priest healer b/elf [wife] and hopefully long term SWTOR players as well....sith warrtior Juggernaut tank [wife] Sith Inquisitor Sorcerer healer [me] both level 33 atm. We absoluteley love playing as a team and are in the unique position that as we play in the same room games like wow and now SWTOR are perfect for us. We can communicate effectively and in wow i trust no-one else but my wife as healer never healed in wow but am trying healing for first time here and loving it. So obviously as we both work and are mature adults (both in our 40,s) {hope they let us play in the nursing home when we get there lol} we are able to afford to play both games. Just dividing time between the two is being worked out. (raid schedules to consider) always when I see posts like this I try to play devil's advocate meaning as wow players (since just after launch and SWTOR from launch). I have no blinkers on when it comes to my passion that is wow and also my new passion mark 2 that is Star wars. Is this game bugged hellz yeah but as with any game like this they can never be free of them. In wow we play for fun yes, but also are very competitive in pvp and serious about our endgame as well. We discovered this game started playing in the last 2 beta tests, got ega (5 days each too) and have been playing since launch. To us we really don't know what the fuss is all about we play this because it gives us what wow doesn't a sort of mmo console game with co-op/mulitplayer (we are in a guild so have plenty of guildies to do content with) and a lot of dlc to come. we like the stories, the questing a lot of things actually. So we have this for fun and wow is for our hardcore fix so to speak. Sorry this is a bit long (im old so forgive me waffling on) my point is this when i see posts like this I try to bring some balance to the conversation (there are always 2 sides to a story) Yes this game has bugs and issues but so does our beloved wow http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3056495855 There i am a wow player and I admit my game isnt perfect and bug free but neither is this one. I am sure both companies are working hard to resolve their respective issues to keep their players happy. Blizzard is and from what I have seen so far, so are Bioware May we enjoy whatever it is we like to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lormif Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I did say nothing like other consumer products, I didn't say they were'nt consumer products, software is coding, not s solid object, hence human error will accure only because one software product is made to work on thousands of different variations of hardware, and cannot be prodicted how software will react on each individual machine. Were as a solid object like cars are made to a standard specifaction and work with the same engine for everyone, as do kettles/toaster and so on. Software is one standard coding that has to work on too many variations of machines, so you'll never be bug free. Not a software engineer are you.... Software is supposed to be made to a standard specification. Yes games will not work on all hardware the same, that is why there is a system requirements list. Most resources of a system are not directly managed by a game, in fact there are few, and all of them are made to specification. The only issue a game has really is graphics cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroseby Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 P.S. I forgot to mention though that if wow had v/o cutscene questing. I would probably never play Star Wars the Old Republic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiachsidhe Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Why hold your children to higher standards then your parents did you, or their parent did them, or so on and so one. So what if you could not make it to college, your child should not be expected to go to college and succeed more then you in life... Shoot why even have standards..... Here I'll use your same logic, and ask you if you expect those same children to succeed on the same level as their grandparents before they even become adults? Because that is what you're expecting, if you think that every new game should be able to immediately provide what other games have attained in a lifetime. It's unreasonable and naive. By your logic, each generation should just start off better! Hey look what grandpa did in his life, little baby, why aren't you retired already? Edited January 22, 2012 by Fiachsidhe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smartalectwo Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 MMOs are investments, that's the way I see it. I remember WoW at launch. So much running. Weird issues. Actually pretty boring in places. I played Holy Paladin to level. Not a good idea, but how was I to know. You couldn't select a final destination on a gryphon, does anyone remember that? You had to fly to each subsequent flight point on your route and manually select the next. It took them ages to change that. But I saw some things that made me want to stick around. Initial impressions are like a pitch to me, the customer. I liked what I saw and I wanted it to become better. There's a simple system - the more money something makes, the more work that'll go into improving it. I didn't see that same thing in a lot of other MMOs. I didn't hang around in WAR for longer than 2 weeks. I couldn't stand EVE. But something about this one's caught my eye. I'm still playing. I want to see it become better. So, I'm investing. Makes sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I did say nothing like other consumer products, I didn't say they were'nt consumer products, software is coding, not s solid object, hence human error will accure only because one software product is made to work on thousands of different variations of hardware, and cannot be prodicted how software will react on each individual machine. Were as a solid object like cars are made to a standard specifaction and work with the same engine for everyone, as do kettles/toaster and so on. Software is one standard coding that has to work on too many variations of machines, so you'll never be bug free. This is wholly incorrect. Software is a product in so far as you buy a CD/DVD whatever and load it onto a system it was 'designed' for. Additionally, software is creating by the coding process, which is followed to allow said software to work on a specific known minimum. Whether that be an OS or a hardware profile. It is wrong to state it will never be bug free. I can write a program I can guarantee will be bug free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lormif Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Here I'll use your same logic, and ask you if you expect those same children to succeed on the same level as their grandparents before they even become adults? Because that is what you're expecting, if you think that every new game should be able to immediately provide what other games have attained in a lifetime. It's unreasonable and naive. By your logic each generation should just start off better! Hey look what grandpa did in his life, little baby, why aren't you retired already? Actually no where in that post did I compare a person at the start of life to someone at the end of life. In fact I was pretty straight in comparing education and success in general. So by my logic each generation should build on the success of the previous, your grandparents high school dropouts, parents graduate HS, you college, your kids masters/phd, or just in general learn more and have better life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 MMOs are investments, that's the way I see it. I remember WoW at launch. So much running. Weird issues. Actually pretty boring in places. I played Holy Paladin to level. Not a good idea, but how was I to know. You couldn't select a final destination on a gryphon, does anyone remember that? You had to fly to each subsequent flight point on your route and manually select the next. It took them ages to change that. But I saw some things that made me want to stick around. Initial impressions are like a pitch to me, the customer. I liked what I saw and I wanted it to become better. There's a simple system - the more money something makes, the more work that'll go into improving it. I didn't see that same thing in a lot of other MMOs. I didn't hang around in WAR for longer than 2 weeks. I couldn't stand EVE. But something about this one's caught my eye. I'm still playing. I want to see it become better. So, I'm investing. Makes sense to me. But, but, this is Star Wars.. And you cannot fly !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tronics Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I haven't said you wanted the software bug free, I have said you want it relitively bug free as thats what your posting about, the amount of bugs and that people are excepting this as standard. "by the way, no not an engineers, just self taut from buying my first pc 20+ years ago" But you also have to take into account the amount of different graphic cards and the amount of different drivers people use from one to another and also this game is cpu intensive. Not forgetting you have to take into accoun the OS which some may have more updates installed than others, the speed of peoples hardrives and weather or not people have defragged them in the last month or speed purposes, and the amount of diffents memory speeds, so it's not just the graphic cards you have to take into account, there are just to many variations in software and hardware to expect games to work perfectly at any time. I always quote and post above, thats a habbit of mine;) Not a software engineer are you.... Software is supposed to be made to a standard specification. Yes games will not work on all hardware the same, that is why there is a system requirements list. Most resources of a system are not directly managed by a game, in fact there are few, and all of them are made to specification. The only issue a game has really is graphics cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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