DarkDruidSS Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 By the time the game engine would support something like winters grasp, 99.9% of current players would have moved on from Swtor. Even wow, has difficulties with uber game engine built for it. Not to mention isnt that what you whine against? instanced pvp ? lol On the other hand Arena 3v3 fights could happen "now" , when x-server gets here. You're right I am against instanced...which is why it is sad that it will probably have to be that way. This game is way too instanced as it is and adding more of that... not sure my brain can handle all the loading screens in the future. I don't agree that this game will die. Not like all the pessimistic posters hope it will. The worst case scenario is it will settle in the 200-300k sub range that EQ, DAoC, EQ2, Vanguard and pretty much every othere MMO falls in. There is so much good in SWTOR that it will never die... that and it is a Star Wars IP so you will have the loyal fans that stick around regardless. I mean there were people playing SWG after the NGE for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmasterr Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) You're right I am against instanced...which is why it is sad that it will probably have to be that way. This game is way too instanced as it is and adding more of that... not sure my brain can handle all the loading screens in the future. I don't agree that this game will die. Not like all the pessimistic posters hope it will. The worst case scenario is it will settle in the 200-300k sub range that EQ, DAoC, EQ2, Vanguard and pretty much every othere MMO falls in. There is so much good in SWTOR that it will never die... that and it is a Star Wars IP so you will have the loyal fans that stick around regardless. I mean there were people playing SWG after the NGE for a long time. I never said that the game will die. I said the current players won't play it anymore, because they lost interest, and due to IRL stuff. Another generation of players will replace us, don't worry. Don't you want to "fight" for something that you can enjoy in the foreseeable future, rather something players from the next generation will? They are both bound to happen, eventually (arena and wpvp), its just that arena is something that we could enjoy now, not in 3 years. Edited June 7, 2012 by Dmasterr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkDruidSS Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I never said that the game will die. I said the current players won't play it anymore, because they lost interest, and due to IRL stuff. Another generation of players will replace us, don't worry. Don't you want to "fight" for something that you can enjoy in the foreseeable future, rather something players from the next generation will? They are both bound to happen, eventually (arena and wpvp), its just that arena is something that we could enjoy now, not in 3 years. We are getting ranked now. So I would personally like WPvP before Arena, but then you already know that seeing as how I am against instances. I am a large scale PvP fan and Ilum was one of the key contributors for why I decided to get the game to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izola Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I love how you can always tell the bads that dont want other people to know exactly how bad they really are. Going against the idea of arena just shows me your a few cards short of a full deck, tip your hand more!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YanksfanJP Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 No arena please. If you think these forums are a cesspool now, wait until the e-sport obsessed egomaniacs get a piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmasterr Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) No arena please. If you think these forums are a cesspool now, wait until the e-sport obsessed egomaniacs get a piece. Balance the classes around PvP and it wont be an issue. And then balance the PvE content around the existing classes. You will not upset the NPC's if u nerf them. That is WoW's mistake. They balance the classes around PvE, then PvP is imbalanced ! Instead of balancing around PvP, and adjusting pve content accordingly . Edited June 7, 2012 by Dmasterr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izola Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 No arena please. If you think these forums are a cesspool now, wait until the e-sport obsessed egomaniacs get a piece. Of all the lame excuses we hear for not implementing arenas this one takes the cake. Your saying NO ARENAS CUZ IT WILL RUIN THE FORUMS....BWAHAHAHAHHAAH!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkDruidSS Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Balance the classes around PvP and it wont be an issue. And then balance the PvE content around the existing classes. You will not upset the NPC's if u nerf them. That is WoW's mistake. They balance the classes around PvE, then PvP is imbalanced ! Instead of balancing around PvP, and adjusting pve content accordingly . That's easier said than done. Rebalancing all of the PvE content so that it's balanced around PvP. This is exactly whyI said it wouldn't be done anytime soon. They have 2 options if they want to realistically balance around arenas. One you hit on and the other is separating abilities to operate differently in PvP than PvE. Both are a huge project and unless they already started on it then it wouldn't be anytime soon. Otherwise anything you fix in PvP will break PvE and vice versa. Swtor wasn't built around PvP, but it was built around PvE. Large scale PvP doesn't require the same kind of tuning that arena does, because the nature of the beast. You will have classes that fill roles... like a raid group. Which is why they can implement Team ranked PvP now. The game is already fairly balanced around group PvP. Small group PvP is a completely different beast altogether. That's why I enjoy large scale so much because it's like raid v raid combat and the best strategist can win against a much larger number opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulman Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 We are getting ranked now. So I would personally like WPvP before Arena, but then you already know that seeing as how I am against instances. I am a large scale PvP fan and Ilum was one of the key contributors for why I decided to get the game to begin with. I agree open pvp is much more fun. If people want arenas they can just play wow. They should focus on making the product their own instead of being a poor copy of wow. Honestly a few simple things could have fixed ilum, which even despite how poorly implemened, was actually pretty fun on occasion. They should turn a big city planet like corellia into a pvp zone. Warhammer players that played in praag, know what in talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmasterr Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I agree open pvp is much more fun.. Fun is subjective and unless you are the only player in Swtor, it is an invalid argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izola Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 i really wish these threads wouldnt get saturated with a bunch of nay sayers. They have PvE specific abilities that cant be used in PvP, so balancing cant be that hard. All were looking for is a 150m x 150m room. We dont care about about gear rewards, just a leaderboard. Anyone not interested does not have to play, so why shun something others want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkDruidSS Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I agree open pvp is much more fun. If people want arenas they can just play wow. They should focus on making the product their own instead of being a poor copy of wow. Honestly a few simple things could have fixed ilum, which even despite how poorly implemened, was actually pretty fun on occasion. They should turn a big city planet like corellia into a pvp zone. Warhammer players that played in praag, know what in talking about. I'm a Warhammer fan. Not sure city seiges would work in this game, but it would be awesome if they did something like that haha. I actually still play the free to play warhammer pvp lake some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izola Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I'm a Warhammer fan. Not sure city seiges would work in this game, but it would be awesome if they did something like that haha. I actually still play the free to play warhammer pvp lake some. more saturation.......please stay on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakinor Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Please, please implement arenas. All of the kids that don't want arenas were the ones that couldn't break 1500 in WoW. Serious pvp'ers want to seriously pvp. Warzones and Ilum are great, but I want to compete and be compared against other players on a singular level. Arenas dont ruin games - in fact, arenas have ben arguably one of the most successful aspects of games like WoW. You don't have to participate if you dont want to. Serious, competitive pvp players want to. While I understand your desire to compete I dont think arenas are at all the way to do. They caused balance issues across the board in WoW when tweaks were made for arena. I may have been popular but it over took wow completely to the point where bgs where really only used if you wanted to arena. I honestly dont want to see this game become that where PvE and PvP are so seperated that in order to be effective you have to stick with just one. I enjoy both PvP and PvE. The best thing I think they can do for PvP in this game is give world pvp a true purpose other than an oversized pvp zone and gankfests. RIFT had the right idea with world pvp and this game would be wise to implement similar ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakinor Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 i really wish these threads wouldnt get saturated with a bunch of nay sayers. They have PvE specific abilities that cant be used in PvP, so balancing cant be that hard. All were looking for is a 150m x 150m room. We dont care about about gear rewards, just a leaderboard. Anyone not interested does not have to play, so why shun something others want? If that is ALL it is I am all for it, but it would be naive to think it wouldnt become a huge whinefest on the forums that 1v1 isnt balanced right, and there arent arena specific gear like wow, and theres not arena specific this and that like wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkDruidSS Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) RIFT had the right idea with world pvp and this game would be wise to implement similar ideas. This is an interesting statement. What did Rift do different than other games? I am guessing you are talking about the PvP rifts that were basically like a instanced warfront, but in open world. No we don't need more of that. I say that only because there was entirely too much stone running as a PvP objective in Rift. Maybe you meant how the hubs were setup to encourage open world PvP. The higher level the quest hub the closer it was to the enemy quest hubs until you were practically figthing on top of each other doing the same quests. Now that I can see, but SWTOR isn't designed like that and they would have to completely redesign planets to be like that. Their 3 faction idea is pretty interesting. Especially since it is a 2 faction game to begin with, but all that map really sounds like is a 1v1v1 instanced warfront. Edited June 7, 2012 by DarkDruidSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulman Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) Fun is subjective and unless you are the only player in Swtor, it is an invalid argument. I am not the only one to think this way. If you read post I was actually in agreement with another player. Just because perhaps you don't agree doesn't make it invalid. Fun is subjective but this is a game and it's sort of the point. Most subscribers are paying for this. There maybe some that are using it for educational purposes, so they can learn how to post in pretty colors on the forums and figure out how to annoy people. I'd say the vast majority play for fun though. You know. This being a video game and everything. Edited June 7, 2012 by Paulman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sekish Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) Please, please implement arenas. All of the kids that don't want arenas were the ones that couldn't break 1500 in WoW. .... Arenas dont ruin games - in fact, arenas have ben arguably one of the most successful aspects of games like WoW. Arena = Kids. SWTOR's audience consists predominantly of mature players. At least those who enjoy and are willing to stick to it long-term. The huge part of Star Wars fans are 30+. Most of them don't even notice the game's flaws. They aren't hardcore gamers. Blizzard admitted long time ago that turning WoW into an e-sport was a mistake. MMORPG + Sport = travesty. Unless it's called "NBA Online" or something. Conclusion: adding Arena (in its WoW-ish variant at least) wouid be a marketing fail for BW/EA. They will never attract a healthy number of the WoW-spoiled children. Will simply lose the core player base. Edited June 7, 2012 by Sekish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmasterr Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) Most of them don't even notice the game's flaws. They aren't hardcore gamers. Flaws are meant to be fixed. Arena = Kids. SWTOR's audience consists predominantly of mature players. At least those who enjoy and are willing to stick to it long-term. The huge part of Star Wars fans are 30+. Most of them don't even notice the game's flaws. They aren't hardcore gamers. Blizzard admitted long time ago that turning WoW into an e-sport was a mistake. MMORPG + Sport = travesty. Unless it's called "NBA Online" or something. Conclusion: adding Arena (in its WoW-ish variant at least) wouid be a marketing fail for BW/EA. They will never attract a healthy number of the WoW-spoiled children. Will simply lose the core player base. I am not saying i agree with what wow has become with the launch of Wotlk, where it is now, or where it is going. However from a purely marketing standpoint as far as the gaming industry is concerned. Kinds >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> adults . Since Swtor as an MMO is a business guess what.... kids form a much MUCH bigger market Edited June 7, 2012 by Dmasterr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keiret Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 The huge part of Star Wars fans are 30+. Evidence? Blizzard admitted long time ago that turning WoW into an e-sport was a mistake. MMORPG + Sport = travesty. Unless it's called "NBA Online" or something. Counter: World of Tanks? Conclusion: adding Arena (in its WoW-ish variant at least) wouid be a marketing fail for BW/EA. They will never attract a healthy number of the WoW-spoiled children. Will simply lose the core player base. What core player base? Pre 1.2?? The unsubbed CE ones playing GW2 beta? pfft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sekish Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) I am not saying i agree with what wow has become with the launch of Wotlk, where it is now, or where it is going. However from a purely marketing standpoint as far as the gaming industry is concerned. Kinds >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> adults . Since Swtor as an MMO is a business guess what.... kids form a much MUCH bigger market If I was born after, say 1987, I'd think Star Wars is some kind of a lol-fail-sci-fi-with-lame-looking-aliens franchise. Because the last 3 films were... hmmm.. unimpressive. And the magic of the original ones is hard to appreciate fully after 30+ years. So the average gamer under 25 doesn't give a **** about Star Wars. He just logs, "ZOMG WoW with pew pew lazors and enchanted swords! Teh win!".... A month later, he starts to scratch his head and ask "Where are teh raidz? And the epix lewt?!? And why no Arenas? This game sux, there are no pandas, /ragequit". Plus, for most adults above 25, paying $15/month is not as big deal as it is for a student. Even if it's for a single-player RPG with some MMO elements... Edited June 7, 2012 by Sekish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeonHawkeye Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) I totally understand the request for Arenas... But even the WoW devs admitted they should have never had concentrated on them. Arenas place WAY too much emphasis on class synergy and balance. It becomes a complicated nightmare of balancing when the synergy between two or three classes is huge but individually the classes are weak. People start calling for nerfs and buffs to balance arena size teams and its a never ending disaster of changes. One class is way too powerful and another is very weak. That problem is removed in WZs because of the team and random factors that come into play. A class that is very poor on an individual level may become great in a team environment. Classes that excel 1v1 may not be that great to have on a WZ team because of their single target purpose. http://wow.joystiq.com/2009/11/13/blizzard-arenas-were-a-mistake/5 Arenas are way too complicated to balance and only further complicate the game. There will never be perfect balance and we need to accept the fact that arenas only make it worse. Well said, Arenas would make an already rampant problem, worse. Class balance is clearly not a priority here and when it is finally addressed, it is very poorly and awkwardly done; most fixes end up further breaking or gutting a class. Without proper class balance, Arenas will be a disaster here as they were in Wow. Can't stand Arena's. Awkward and overall a pain in the ***, if you like them, go back to WoW. We don't need them here. Coming from someone who achieved a high 2,400 rating with great team mates I can admit, it was not fun and we, as well as several other highly ranked teams quickly got sick of the dysfunctional format for end game PvP and quit. There is a reason why WoW's end game PvP is simply not competetive and any E-sport attempt for the franchise has failed miserably with both low competitor numbers and spectator numbers unable to break 60,000 for even their most meaningful tournaments. Edited June 8, 2012 by LeonHawkeye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkDruidSS Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) If I was born after, say 1987, I'd think Star Wars is some kind of a lol-fail-sci-fi-with-lame-looking-aliens franchise. Because the last 3 films were... hmmm.. unimpressive. And the magic of the original ones is hard to appreciate fully after 30+ years. So the average gamer under 25 doesn't give a **** about Star Wars. He just logs, "ZOMG WoW with pew pew lazors and enchanted swords! Teh win!".... A month later, he starts to scratch his head and ask "Where are teh raidz? And the epix lewt?!? And why no Arenas? This game sux, there are no pandas, /ragequit". Plus, for most adults above 25, paying $15/month is not as big deal as it is for a student. Even if it's for a single-player RPG with some MMO elements... Going to have to disagree on the popularity of Star Wars. Kids all over know what Star Wars is because The Clone Wars is on Cartoon Network and the Star Wars movies play on Spike TV almost every weekend lately and every holiday weekend for sure. Also Episode I was re-released in 3D recently and when I took my son to see the movie.. because he asked me... there were tons of parents with their kids. Have you ever been to Toys'R'Us, Target or Walmart and seen all the Clone Wars and old remakes of the original action figures? My son could tell you more about the Star Wars universe than I could at 6 years old. For a reference on age I am going to be 29 August this year. I have a couple Star Wars books put up in the closet and I play this SWTOR game. Other than that.. there isn't much Star Wars related content in the house other than my son's Lego Star Wars Trilogy game on the Wii and his action figures. Which is another thing. The Lego Star Wars has also introduced many generations to Star Wars since it is Lego and easy to play. I know women at work that play Lego Star Wars (because their kids have the game) and don't know anything about the real story. Edited June 8, 2012 by DarkDruidSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fdzzaigl Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 You can smell which teams would own 3vs3 from miles away. Either 2 PT's + healer, or 3 Mara's, or 2 Mara + healer. Healer being an operative, preferably. Larger set-ups would revolve around stacking more burst classes. The current warzones are already large arenas, what we need is bigger, less stressy pvp, not even smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwitchWINs Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) I have been posting and making posts like this for ages i can personally say 100+ people from my skype would sub to this game if it had arena and sure ofc balancing classes in a game around the situations which happen in a 3v3 arena is a nightmare but a nightmare which will bring lots of subs thus lots of moneys! also "Immersion Through Progression I have always thought one thing about Arena that I would love to see is more immersion. Sure there's always the number crunching and tactics area. That's always fun. But as a player in this system, number crunching and tactics combined with vanity rewards may not seem like enough. Unless you have it all, you really only have that rating number to look at. After the match, you look at that number, just to see what the new number looks like, whether it drops or rises. And speaking of the match, it may seem I have these glorious battles, but there's no one there to see it. I would love to see and hear an actual crowd in these arenas. I don't care if they're just pixels, but I think on how great it would be to see a half filled arena when I first start my endeavor. And then slowly see the coliseum fill with more onlookers as my rating increased. Perhaps even as one nears a certain pinnacle, the Emperor and Jedi High Council watch down through their Holocrons perched atop one of the highest VIP sections. As an enemy falls, the crowd roars. When an ally falls, the crowd roars. After all, these people came to see someone get massacred, right?" This was BRILLIANT!!! You can smell which teams would own 3vs3 from miles away. Either 2 PT's + healer, or 3 Mara's, or 2 Mara + healer. Healer being an operative, preferably. Larger set-ups would revolve around stacking more burst classes. The current warzones are already large arenas, what we need is bigger, less stressy pvp, not even smaller. Also i can say any of these comps you just mentioned would be an easy time for double sorc oper heal or sorcerer,ptech,operative Edited June 8, 2012 by TwitchWINs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts