Lormif Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Macros just make it so instead of pressing 2 or 3 buttons, you're pressing 1. People with certain gaming keyboards are able to do this anyway, albeit maybe not as well. That means that some people in the game, right now, have a small time advantage over you simply because they have a more expensive keyboard. This removes the advantage and puts everyone on an equal level. Besides, is pressing 1 button or 2-3 all together really about the difference in difficulty? Pressing one button or a couple buttons are both very simple. With certain keyboard they can do it Better. I can set my keyboard up to do an F2 (target second party member), number key 1 (cast heal) and then repeat instantly, or after a certain period of time.. Not that I do it, but it is easy to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coramac Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Macros just make it so instead of pressing 2 or 3 buttons, you're pressing 1. People with certain gaming keyboards are able to do this anyway, albeit maybe not as well. That means that some people in the game, right now, have a small time advantage over you simply because they have a more expensive keyboard. This removes the advantage and puts everyone on an equal level. Besides, is pressing 1 button or 2-3 all together really about the difference in difficulty? Pressing one button or a couple buttons are both very simple. Actually, you can use macros for a host of other options too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink_Saber Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) 'Kay. Nope. The player who created the macro made the decision to order his abilities in that fashion for a reason. Either he sat on his own and used a parser to determine which rotation was optimal, or he went over to <SWTOR fansite> and found the best rotation for his class and put it into the macro. Either way, he know has the knowledge to play his class effectively, even if he didn't figure it out himself. So you're saying that of someone goes to a website, and copies a macro someone else wrote, he has "the knowledge of play his class effectively?" You really think the difference between good and bad players should be their ability to copy and paste? That that's the same thing as being knowledgeable about your class? I've seen some pretty ridiculous statements made on these forums, but that one's a keeper. I think the problem here is that you equate pressing multiple buttons in a certain order as more skillful than making a macro that uses those same abilities in the same order. Seems silly to me. If that's what you think I've been saying, you haven't been paying attention. I've been repeating, over and over, that I think priority-based macros are a bad idea. I've specifically said, more than once, that I'm not talking about purely sequential macros. I have no problem with WoW's macro system for example. I think it's a very good one, primarily because they are very careful to implement it in a way that it never makes decisions for the player. I'd welcome a system like that in TOR. Edited January 22, 2012 by Pink_Saber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WLpride Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 addons can be a good thing or a bad one. even bad ones though are regularly used improperly in this game you have to be aware of things no scripting can help you with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coramac Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 So you're saying that of someone goes to a website, and copies a macro someone else wrote, he has "the knowledge of play his class effectively?" You really think the difference between good and bad players should be their ability to copy and paste? That that's the same thing as being knowledgeable about your class? I've seen some pretty ridiculous statements made on these forums, but that one's a keeper. He probably has about as much as people not using a macro... :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lormif Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Actually, you can use macros for a host of other options too. That is not correct, well it does not have to be.. Macros only do what the devs allow them to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lormif Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 So you're saying that of someone goes to a website, and copies a macro someone else wrote, he has "the knowledge of play his class effectively?" You really think the difference between good and bad players should be their ability to copy and paste? That that's the same thing as being knowledgeable about your class? I've seen some pretty ridiculous statements made on these forums, but that one's a keeper. So you are saying that someone who reads a text book has the knowledge that is contained that that text book? I am not disagreeing that the guy is putting forth some pretty bad logic, but so are you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zrathen Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I personally have always been a more minimal UI person, so to me macros means that i can consolidate. On WoW, my rogue had about 1 bar of abilities because macros allowed me to place inherit shift/control/alt modifiers into the buttons so they took up less room. Combine this with a fully modifiable UI and you can do some really neat stuff. I took everything off the screen except for the minimap and that one bar and my UI was set up in a way so that my health and energy and ticks were all displayed in curved arcs that surrounded my character. Also, I personally am a keybinder and not a clicker so I scaled it down to about 1/4 the size it should just so I can see the timers for when my abilities are up again. Personally, I dont think this gave me any kind of edge at all, anyone that uses keybinds has them memorized and doesn't look to use them, after all, that's the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcalusine Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 i dont know what a macro is and dont care. I do know that this game does not need them though.. and whiners... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coramac Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 That is not correct, well it does not have to be.. Macros only do what the devs allow them to do. Good point. Typically, they get used for a host of other things. Most games will let you do a lot more than simply use abilities. I don't get the complaints about the abuse of 1 button do it all macros. BW can prevent that while still allowing macros... /assist is already in the game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlia Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 i dont know what a macro is and dont care. I do know that this game does not need them though.. and whiners... wow, just wow. this right here. my gosh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordChucks Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 edit: sorry for those of you who want macros and are butt-hurt by the use of the word 'whining'. really wasn't try to offend or upset anyone. i just don't get it and wanted a response from someone who fully understands the concept this question concerns macros. why do you keep whining for them and how can you possibly say they won't dumb down the difficulty of the game? i've been enjoying video games for the better part of 3 decades, but this is my first MMO. from what i understand, you basically want to be able to execute all of your abilities in a pre-determined order with just a fraction of the keystrokes. this seems to be a hot-button issue for a lot of people, and i get that some people want a simplified or less thought-out game experience, and that is understandable to some degree i suppose. but what i absolutely cannot fathom is how you people can say that it won't make the game easier. why bother having cooldowns if you never have to worry about them? if you can launch all attacks and abilities in one automated keystroke w/o ever having to think about CD's, then what is the point? in fact, why don't we just ask bioware to make the game like KOTOR, where you can pause combat and cue up 4 abilities at once? if they get added, so be it. i suppose i'll use them. it's not a deal-breaker for me either way. i would just REALLY like one of these people who keep complaining for them to be added to please justify their reasoning for why it won't make the game much easier. Saves buttons. It's that simple. I will sometimes put a few of my buffs on a single button if they have similar recharge timers and are used in similar situations. Call it an "I Win" button or whatever else you like, but with the extremely limited and clunky bar setups in the game, if it lets me save a bar slot I would like to do it. Is this unfair? Not really. Take a very simple case, our relics. They currently have a shared "cannot use both" period, so it is impossible to actvate both at once and get some double stacked buff. But I would love to be able to put both into one macro so that whenever I hit the button it would use one (or the other) cooldowns-permitting. With the glut of abiltiies we already have on our bars is it really absolutely necessary for us to waste 2 more of them for our relics? I would also put my out of combat heal on the same button as something else (like an attack that only worked incombat). Same for my quicktravel. Maybe I would put my threat dump ability on the same macro as my quicktravel, one with an [incombat] and one with an [nocombat] modifier. In effect I use macros to create my own context sensitive buttons to help keep onscreen clutter down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lormif Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 i dont know what a macro is and dont care. I do know that this game does not need them though.. and whiners... Must be someone from congress.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink_Saber Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) So you are saying that someone who reads a text book has the knowledge that is contained that that text book? I am not disagreeing that the guy is putting forth some pretty bad logic, but so are you. Your idea of logic is pretty screwy, or it's just a really bad analogy, I'm not sure which. Do I think someone who copies a single paragraph from a textbook has anything like a complete knowledge of the subject? No, I don't. Do I think someone who reads a biblical passage on a church sign is a theologist? No, I don't. Copying someone else's macro is not "knowledge of your class." It's completely nonsensical to try to say they are the same thing. Edited January 22, 2012 by Pink_Saber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgeredMushroom Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 So you're saying that of someone goes to a website, and copies a macro someone else wrote, he has "the knowledge of play his class effectively?" You really think the difference between good and bad players should be their ability to copy and paste? That that's the same thing as being knowledgeable about your class? Yes, unless you believe that nobody ever reads the ability tooltips or the theorycrafting behind rotations at high levels of play. I suppose its easier to assume everyone who plays games in a manner that you do not is illiterate and essentially a botter, though. The hatred is strong with you. Do you play a Sith by chance? I've seen some pretty ridiculous statements made on these forums, but that one's a keeper. I could say the same for your equating the people who use the "bad" type of macro with botting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seuria Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) I'm baffled that people are against a macro system like WoW has implemented. I've played a survival hunter for years, even when it wasn't cool to do so, and I've never macro-ed my abilities down to a single button. Point in fact, the only time I bothered to macro two abilities together was when I switched to marksmanship for ICC last expac and slapped silencing shot onto every shot. Know what happened when Cataclysm rolled around? Blizzard broke that specifically because they don't like us doing that. A good example of the strength of macros as utility is the hunter Misdirection macro a lot of us use. Misdirection allows the hunter to transfer their threat from damage to a specified target for a small window of time. The macro in question is specifically setup to misdirect to our focus target (generally the tank) or, if that target is dead or no focus is set, our pet. This allows me to soften the impact of instancing for new tanks by throttling up on the initial pull and giving the tank a headstart on threat, by sticking stray mobs to the tank, or by holding the line with my pet should the tank fall. What does that macro require specifically? Knowledge of my class, my roll, my pet, and the skill level of the tank I'm running with. In no way does it play the game for me. Edited January 22, 2012 by Seuria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radersdad Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Might want to understand macros first before flaming people who ask for them. and maybe play a few other MMOs at end game for a while too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGsChevy Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 So you are saying that someone who reads a text book has the knowledge that is contained that that text book? I am not disagreeing that the guy is putting forth some pretty bad logic, but so are you. A better analogy than someone reading a textbook would be someone copying their term paper from Wikipedia. Do you think that person truly understands the subject matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink_Saber Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Yes, unless you believe that nobody ever reads the ability tooltips or the theorycrafting behind rotations at high levels of play. I suppose its easier to assume everyone who plays games in a manner that you do not is illiterate and essentially a botter, though. The hatred is strong with you. Do you play a Sith by chance? You can't seriously be trying to assert that everyone who copies a macro from a someone else also reads the theorycrafting behind rotations? My God, I can't believe I'm even trying to argue this kind of insanity. Of course they don't. Copying a macro does not make you an expert on your class; it just doesn't. Yes, someone with class knowledge can copy macros. However, someone can copy macros with no class knowledge at all. Your logic here is completely backwards. I could say the same for your equating the people who use the "bad" type of macro with botting. They are similar, in that in both cases a computer program is deciding what the character should do, instead of the player. I did not equate them, and in fact was very clear about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcalusine Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I could say the same for your equating the people who use the "bad" type of macro with botting. Give a noob a macro and he'll want 2 more after that. Wont be long before the game sucks and nobody is left. I hear that is pretty much what happens with all macros and MMos So far thi game has no feature i feel i need a macro to do for me. The game is not hard or tedious as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lormif Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I'm baffled that people are against a macro system like WoW has implemented. I've played a survival hunter for years, even when it wasn't cool to do so, and I've never macro-ed my abilities down to a single button. Point in fact, the only time I bothered to macro two abilities together was when I switched to marksmanship for ICC last expac and slapped silencing shot onto every shot. Know what happened when Cataclysm rolled around? Blizzard broke that specifically because they don't like us doing that. A good example of the strength of macros as utility is the hunter Misdirection macro a lot of us you. Misdirection allows the hunter to transfer their threat from damage to a specified target for a small window of time. The macro in question is specifically setup to misdirect to our focus target (generally the tank) or, if that target is dead or no focus is set, our pet. This allows me to soften the impact of instancing for new tanks by throttling up on the initial pull and giving the tank a headstart on threat, by sticking stray mobs to the tank, or by holding the line with my pet should the tank fall. What does that macro require specifically? Knowledge of my class, my roll, my pet, and the skill level of the tank I'm running with. In no way does it play the game for me. First I am pro basic macros Second your last paragraph, considering the rest of your posts is completlly wrong and does not help the cause. You DO NOT need to know your class to setup a macro, you can just copy and past it from somewhere. Also in games like wow you could play the game from that one button, at least for some time. The problem with the wow macro system was how wow classes worked. Most did not have innate procs to worry about, and the procs they got latter did not change rotations as much as in this game. This allowed a hunter to macro all his/her abilities to one button. This game is different, most if not all classes that I have seen have inate procs that if you want to maximize dps you need to change your rotation constantly on the fly, the priority system compared to wows rotation system. You can always just use a rotation system in the game, but it would be near useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 edit: sorry for those of you who want macros and are butt-hurt by the use of the word 'whining'. really wasn't try to offend or upset anyone. i just don't get it and wanted a response from someone who fully understands the concept this question concerns macros. why do you keep whining for them and how can you possibly say they won't dumb down the difficulty of the game? i've been enjoying video games for the better part of 3 decades, but this is my first MMO. from what i understand, you basically want to be able to execute all of your abilities in a pre-determined order with just a fraction of the keystrokes. That's not how macros in MMOs work. But I'll cut you some slack since you say this is your first one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seuria Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Isn't the argument against someone copying a macro from a website the same argument against the use of talent trees? That people will simply copy their talents from a website that states this is best if you use this particular rotation? If this is true why are macros bad and talent trees and intended rotations acceptable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink_Saber Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Isn't the argument against someone copying a macro from a website the same argument against the use of talent trees? That people will simply copy their talents from a website that states this is best if you use this particular rotation? If this is true why are macros bad and talent trees and intended rotations acceptable? They've got a few points in common, but there's a vast difference between copying a build, and being able to put a large number of your abilities on one spammable button and having the computer figure out which order to use them all in. One is much more of a crutch than the other, for fairly obvious reasons. Edited January 22, 2012 by Pink_Saber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coramac Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Give a noob a macro and he'll want 2 more after that. Wont be long before the game sucks and nobody is left. I hear that is pretty much what happens with all macros and MMos So far thi game has no feature i feel i need a macro to do for me. The game is not hard or tedious as is. You should have tried playing these other games. They didn't go downhill because of macros. It's not hard or tedious on some things. Other things are an annoyance. If you aren't using assist macros in PvP, you are bad. Period. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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