Is has potential, but too many features are missing

[notebene]

That title. Just 'once' I'd like to see something like that instead of 'irreconcilable differences'.

[Lebre]

this thread needs much more attention! good points

[SkilledSeeker]

Fantastic post OP, I completely agree with all your points. I have faith that these things will get implemented in the future.

[Csero]

what else?

 

 

I didn't see anyone asking for being able to raise and lower hoods. I really want this as it seems my Sith never wears his hood and my Jedi never takes it off. Strange since it looks like the hoods on almost every model looks as if it were designed with such a feature in mind.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Csero

[Dreossk]

I didn't see anyone asking for being able to raise and lower hoods. I really want this as it seems my Sith never wears his hood and my Jedi never takes it off. Strange since it looks like the hoods on almost every model looks as if it were designed with such a feature in mind.

 

Actually at one point the devs mentioned that feature but it was later forgotten.

[RazielHex]

Actually at one point the devs mentioned that feature but it was later forgotten.

 

Aren't you just filled with self-importance.

 

Later is later.

It's not now

 

It's later.

[Nozybidaj]

I didn't see anyone asking for being able to raise and lower hoods. I really want this as it seems my Sith never wears his hood and my Jedi never takes it off. Strange since it looks like the hoods on almost every model looks as if it were designed with such a feature in mind.

 

That's definitely something I want. I agree with the general sentiment of the OP, the game has potential there, but it made the mistake all MMO's make, they simply lack too many features and content out of the box.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Nozybidaj

[FRISKI]

Excellent read, op.

I felt all those things and their lack of but hadn't given them words but you just did that for me, thanks.

[Saetun]

Excellent post.

 

Definitely, the way the worlds are designed. And how everything is so linear. Makes it feel like a single player game that I can play with others. It doesn't feel like a world I can explore and live in.

 

I am hoping they will develop it over time to be much much more but right now it feels dead.

[HBninjaX]

I am in agreement with the OP. The world is too linear, has too many loading screens, and is too empty. Some of the zones, like Nar Shadaa are disjointed and don't even feel like a planet.

 

The gameplay is great though, and having a ship is pretty sweet.

 

I don't know how much the devs can do though, the direction they took the game was very mass effecty, how much can they undo?

[Drebs]

*****

You make too many good points to be ignored.

 

Also, the visuals help a lot.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Drebs

[Kanshan]

If you hate the game, why post here?

 

Door is that way ------->

 

 

Also with all this feed back of what players think bad about this game almost being 100% the same I see soon the devs adding it in.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Kanshan

[Faytte]

OP is 100% right.

[anasa]

Wholeheartedly agree... I'm slow and steadily losing hope for this game. It's potential is indeed going to waste @.@

[Souvarr]

if they could implement EQ2's housing and guild halls into SWTOR I would sign up for life.

 

Can't see it though.

 

From what I heard, take it from youtube, but they are talking about Guild Ships.

[FRISKI]

If you hate the game, why post here?

 

Door is that way ------->

 

 

Also with all this feed back of what players think bad about this game almost being 100% the same I see soon the devs adding it in.

 

I can't see the part where op mentioned hating the game,

Also a better question, if you don't hate the game why are you posting here, shouldn't you be playing?

[Avrose]

This game isn't about exploration its about the story.

 

You like exploring that's nice, this game isn't it.

 

When I watch the star-wars movies I didn't get wondering during the big moments 'hey whats over there?"

 

If anything they should focus on making every moment more epic.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Avrose

[Hunterzen]

Completely agree with OP you are my hero and all the things you point out are what keep people playing for years. It makes you wonder what the hell the developers were thinking, like we were all just going to pay monthly to play a single player game? I have never seen a MMORPG so linear and repetitive as TOR. I just wish SWGemu had the funding TOR has and my dream of a true Star Wars Universe that I can live in will come true. Problem with your list is that none of these things can happen unless they bascially recreate a whole new game starting with a new engine.

[Goretzu]

SWTOR is not a bad game, it’s nice to see a Star Wars environment again. I like my trooper, my big gun and my armor. I played a couple of MMO and I always have only one character and I’m more the RP-PvP type than PvE even tho I raided in that game that shall not be named. SWTOR is good for a while up until when you reach the end, at this point it becomes like a lot of other MMO and all you can do is essentially raid again or PvP again. Players that want to LIVE in the Star Wars universe won’t be able to do it, too many features are simply missing, sometimes they are very basic features expected in a AAA MMO like it was falsely advertised by the devs. I’ll try not to talk about bugs and to talk more about absent features and restrictions.

 

 

Dead world

Let’s start with the main problem about the game, the dead world. Best example is Coruscant. Remember the Coruscant scenes in the movies? Huge crowds of people, dense traffic, in short, a living world. Now go to Coruscant in the game, you’ll see a tiny zone linking the spaceport to the senate (nice coincidence by the way!) with barely a couple of NPC standing in place, frozen in time. That plaza is the only “living” area of Coruscant and the only place you’ll go back to (on that planet) after finishing the game, all other zones are full of enemies, completely linear and underground or in buildings and don’t represent at all what we expect of Coruscant. Zones are not connected and there is no feeling of unity. Some zones are obviously made for a video game since they would be impossible in reality by their poor design, it might not be as bad as The Citadel or Illium in Mass Effect but it’s still obvious.

 

You wanted to go to a place like Dex’s dinner? Sorry, there is no such open sky area nor any place like that. You wanted to stand at the 300th floor of a skyscraper and look and the scenery through the window? Not possible. You wanted to visit the planet through the catwalks high in the air? Not possible. The same problems are visible on Nar Shaddaa. One zone is above ground, everything else is away from the landscapes that make the planet notorious and there is little to no NPC life.

 

The main cities like Coruscant, Kaas City, Nar Shaddaa, Corellia, etc. need more life. Hundreds of NPC must be added and they have to walk around, have animations and do things like using a computer, moving to talk to other NPC, going to cantina, etc. Dozens of NPC vehicles must also fly by and fill up the sky. Zones like in the movies must be added, social zones with no enemies, like the bar district or the dinner in ep2, or the building in the books, apartments, shops, attractions, social places, etc. Stop putting everything and every important NPC in the same place, we are not in that much of a hurry. The fleet is currently the only important place to be at level 50, add reasons to go back to the planets.

 

The PvE enemies are almost always in packs and placed in such a way that it doesn’t make sense for a battle and they are frozen for eternity, not moving or doing anything and it just adds to the feeling of dead worlds. They also have to do things and move so it look like a real world.

 

What it is: Coruscant Spaceport | Coruscant Senate | Coruscant Streets

 

What is has to be: Coruscant crowd

 

 

Exploration

Exploration is currently really hard to do. You want to go explore that coast? Chances are good that you are going to enter an exhaustion zone and die, even if you are on land and unaffected by weather. The lands are filled with invisible walls and useless limitations. Most structures are unclimbable or simply inaccessible. As said in previous point, we need more non-fighting zones to go to.

 

 

Day/night cycle

As other caring people on the forum at that time, I was shocked that day a couple of years ago when they announced that every planet would be frozen in time, never to evolve, never to change. It’s mind boggling to see that in a 2012 MMO. A day/night cycle is essential for the mood and immersion of the game. You wanted to organize a RP event during night on a day planet? No chance. You wanted to watch the lights of Coruscant at night? Not possible. You wanted to finally see a day on Nar Shaddaa? Not possible. You wanted to watch the sunset between the hills of Alderaan? No.

 

You'll never see: Coruscant Night | Tatooine sunset | Tatooine at night

 

Pre-rebuttal:

“But the day/night cycle was crap in that other game!”

Just because it was crap, too dark, too light or ugly in another games does not mean that it must be the case for SWTOR too. I’ve seen that argument many times and yet it never made any sense.

 

“Planets don’t all have a 24 hours rotation in the Galaxy Far Far Away!”

So? The rotation just has to be based on the actual data of that planet.

“I don’t want to play during night all the time!”

Many planets are at perpetual night at this moment. Anyway, as said before, the rotation isn’t always 24 hours and it doesn’t have to be on a 1:1 ratio with real life either.

 

 

Dynamic weather

Some planets have special weather but in most case it’s just to limit (limitation being the key word in this game) the zones you can go to like the killer sandstorm on Tatooine if you try to go PvP in the enemy city. Weather needs to be more dynamic, make it rain on Coruscant, spawn a huge blizzard once in a while on Hoth, make the sky change, give life to the world.

 

Tatooine sandstorm

 

 

Environment interaction, social activites & RP

To live in a world, we must interact with the world. Elevator buttons are not enough, there isn’t much liberty in the environment. Cantinas are filled with chairs, why can’t we sit on them? We must be able to gather friends, go to a cantina, sit at a table start playing a game like Pazaak or Sabacc with the possibility to bet credits. I see some kind of Dejarik game in my ship, why can’t I use it?

 

Sabacc

 

Allow us to activate more buttons in our ship, like a viewport toggle, lights, training simulation, etc. Allow us to put waypoint on the map and establish a route for a player created race event. Allow us to climb obstacles like in other games so we could actually go to places that are obviously possible to go to for a trained warrior instead of being blocked like if we were on a wheelchair

 

Allow swimming! Not having that in a modern game is an insult. The reveal of Otoh Gunga in The Phantom Menace was a great moment and we can’t do similar things in the game.

 

Pre-rebuttal:

“I wear heavy armor, I can’t swim!”

It’s the Galaxy Far Far Away with technology thousands of years ahead of us, many solutions exist. Submersible armor, waterproof electronics, scuba gear or simply remove armor when swimming!

 

“Underwated content was crap in that other game!”

See answer for day/night cycle. Because other games failed in doing a good job doesn’t mean that it will fail here too. A lot of potential for underwater content exists.

 

Swimming

 

 

PvP

Some people might like boxed PvP and love to play ball with the enemy or destroy a ship in Alderaan for the hundredth time but many of us come from games with excellent world PvP with a lot of possibilities. One thing that the system of planets with a range of levels prevents is good world PvP. You wanted to raid the capital of the enemy faction? Not possible, capital world are restricted by faction. You Imperial scums wanted to occupy Anchorhead? Not possible, you’ll get killed by a sandstorm while trying to go there. You wanted to have epic battles on Alderaan? Sorry, due to the fact that planets have a level range, there is no reason for a 50 to go there and you’ll only piss lowbies off. You wanted to go the the Jedi Temple on Tython and kill Satele Shan? Not possible, that planet is also off limit, In fact, it will be impossible to ever do any PvP on Ord Mantell, Hutta, Korriban, Tython, Coruscant, Taris, Balmorra and it’s impossible for most of Nar Shaddaa. All iconic worlds on which you will never have the chance to fight the other faction. Solution would be to add more zones to all planets so lvl 50 players have a reason to leave their fleet and explore the world.

 

 

Space & vehicle

Like many people, I was very disappointed when they announced the tunnel space combat. The current system is not bad for what it’s worth, but it could be so much more. It should have been at least as good as the previous one, in SWG, with the liberty and possibilities, or even better, like in X-Wing Alliance. It was said the space combat will be improved soon and it’s very exciting. It needs to be multiplayer and free roam. The travel could also be improved so it doesn’t feel so disjointed. Allow us to go to empty space and float aimlessly, race in a field of asteroids or land on them and mine. Allow us to build structures and bases in space or in asteroids.

 

The vehicles are also very basic. As other said, the speed bonus is very small so it could be boosted. Companions could sit behind the player on the speeder when travelling instead of disappearing to oblivion. Vehicles could be parked and stay there while the player walks away or they could be called from the ship and have an animation of auto-piloting to the player from distance instead of appearing out of nowhere and disappearing every time in an unrealistic way. We should also be able to use them in more places like caves and big buildings.

 

 

Interface & graphics

Other people have talked a lot about the problems of the interface and it seems the devs finally understand and are going to give us some liberty. The maximum of 2 windows is ridiculous, we don’t have enough bars for all skills and items. The friend/guild lists need many functions like personal comments and a complete right click menu. The market must have options to filter better, by type of items and stats.

 

Chat bubbles needs to be in the game, it’s a basic feature for social interaction.

 

The real high resolution textures needs to be available at least for our own character, companion and groups and preferably for everyone in close proximity.

 

Texture problem

 

 

Character

The lack of races at release was disappointing. After SWG, one could expect at least the same races and preferably more, but we got at lot less and most of them are humans with a different color. I guess it’s too late for that, we already made our character and I will certainly not start over.

 

The weapon system didn’t receive any innovation either. A class will have a certain weapon proficiency and it will keep that for all the game. The rockets, grenades, laser shots, beams and electricity all come out of the same barrel.

 

The bounty hunter has a jetpack, that’s great, only he can’t use it at all to access restricted places or jump higher, the Force users can’t use their ability on the world either.

 

 

The cover system is years behind the current standards and requires the player to go to a specific location instead of allowing to take cover anywhere and behind anything and it is restricted to two classes.

 

Real cover system

 

The current item modification is a good step in the right direction but a complete appearance tab system is missing. We should be able to change the color, change logos, have clothes on top of armor and be able to have multiple gear setups for social, combat or events.

 

 

Guild

No guild ship, no guild HQ, nowhere private and special to go. They are going to add a guild bank, that’s good, but we also need to be able to wear a guild symbol like an emblem, logo, piece of equipment or maybe even a rank patch. Having a guild is really just a permanent group chat.

 

 

Endgame

Raid again or PvP again. Most MMO do that mistake. These things are dev-made and have an end, a limit. We must have ways to make our own content, RP tools, possibility to make events, housing, collections, achievements, these things can keep people busy for a long time and if made correctly they can never end. I don’t plan to stay in the game if it’s to log and wait between raids and PvP events. Quests and stories have and end, we must be able to create.

 

 

Housing

As said above, housing is a good way to keep people busy. If we could decorate our ship with furnitures, change the color or, like in SWG, drop every item of the game on the ground and move/rotate in anywhere in our ship to create a real personal space. Most objects in the ship are actually useless. Allow us to use the med center, go in the bed, put items in crates and wardrobes, allow people to sit in the council room and do a briefing for a future mission. Allow us to change the weapon racks so they actually display the guns we used and want to show. We could also buy a home on planets like Coruscant and Corellia and be in our apartment in a skyscraper high above the ground and watch the life on the planet and decorate it like said above.

 

Trophies | Player made council room

 

 

Pre-rebuttal:

“Housing isn’t heroic!”

You can’t be a hero all the time. Han Solo spent a lot of time in his ship, customizing it and changing everything. Luke and Mara had an apartment on Coruscant and I’m pretty sure they had good times there creating Ben. Han and Leia have a place on Coruscant too. Obi-Wan lived like a cave troll in his little house on Tatooine for years so is Yoda on Dagobah. Students at Luke’s academy all have a room. The examples are countless. We can’t be expected to live in this game by fighting all the time.

 

 

Crafting

The current discovery system is too random, we need more control. The resources could have stats and qualities, that would allow dedicated crafters to be famous across the galaxy and people would go look specifically for their items. I remember that weaponsmith in SWG that was known for the good materials he used in crafting guns. I made the trip to Naboo then went far in the wilds to find his shop and buy stuff from his vendor then I could see him in the backstore, crafting and working, that was great and I actually felt I was in a real world.

 

 

Conclusion

SWTOR has potential, but at this moment it is too far behind in many aspects. SWG was bad on many points but it had awesome ideas, the housing was great and the immersion was present. LotRO has a good appearance tab, Champions Online has awesome personalization possibilities and dynamic combat system so does Age of Conan, EVE online has good ideas and incredible liberty and World of Warcraft must have something too.

 

Don’t tell me to go back to X MMO, SWTOR is the only Star Wars MMO and that represents a lot in my life. Accept that it would gain a lot by having most of these sometimes very basic features and the game would only be better and last longer.

 

 

 

 

All pretty fair comments, so much missed potential.

[Rahl_Windsong]

I am starting to think a lot of the things we are complaining about is caused simply by the limitations of the Hero engine this game was developed with, and if that is the case I don't see it ever getting much better then it is right now.

 

Sure they will add new content but all the little things like poor camera control, etc will never get fixed because its not possible.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Rahl_Windsong

[Avrose]

I love you OP.

 

Totally agree.

 

Thought the game is dead why are you still here? Its passed the 20th.

[Katesa]

Very well stated OP.

[Mattderp]

so again ppl talkin rubish an QQ about the game, did u ever read any otther posts on all these subjects? i thk not...day an night cycle, u do realise that the only planet that has 24hour cycle is earth? which would giv u a day an night in RT? lol

 

oh

my

god.

I can't even...

[LogicalPremise]

Can't...help it..must...add...to....wall...of ... text....crit....over 9000!!!

 

Only going to touch a few things actually. Yes, that means I'm nitpicking.

 

Players that want to LIVE in the Star Wars universe won’t be able to do it, too many features are simply missing, sometimes they are very basic features expected in a AAA MMO like it was falsely advertised by the devs.

 

Falsely advertised? Very , very, very few MMO's have done what you describe,and most did it badly, and in a way that caused more problems than solved. The bottom line is that they're telling a story and not really creating a sandbox world to live in. God, I hate using that argument because it's inherently lame, but in THIS particular case it's the truth.

 

Turning the game into a liveable sandbox would cost us many other features and improvements. And it would alienate as many people as it attracted.

 

Stop putting everything and every important NPC in the same place, we are not in that much of a hurry. The fleet is currently the only important place to be at level 50, add reasons to go back to the planets.

 

This, I agree on. I actually take the trip to DK whenever I need to use the GTN or crafting vendors or to train because it feels more ... realistic than going to a magical space station that's identical to a Republic magical space station and is full of speeder bikes.

 

The PvE enemies are almost always in packs and placed in such a way that it doesn’t make sense for a battle and they are frozen for eternity, not moving or doing anything and it just adds to the feeling of dead worlds. They also have to do things and move so it look like a real world.

 

Yeah well...so is every other MMO I played, really. CO , STO, COH, Warhammer, AO, UO...

 

And there are a few places (Belsavis, Voss) where you see mobs moving and patrolling about.

 

As said in previous point, we need more non-fighting zones to go to.

 

I suspect that , along with cycles and improvements to cantinas and the like, is something that will be worked on alongside chat bubbles and other improvements once the big bugs and PvP has been fixed.

 

 

One thing that the system of planets with a range of levels prevents is good world PvP. You wanted to raid the capital of the enemy faction? Not possible, capital world are restricted by faction.

 

I actually like this. I'm sorry, but after what happened on Coruscant, and with the insane paranoia of the Sith, "raiding" the capital worlds is not realistic. They aren't CITIES that you can sneak into or siege. They're worlds, surrounded by fleets.

 

You wanted to go the the Jedi Temple on Tython and kill Satele Shan?

 

I dislike this simply because it wouldn't be permanent and would feel trivial and gamey. I'd rather see expansions to the core story that pits you at 50 and above against a personal nemesis that you defeat, much like CO's Nemesis system.

 

The current system is not bad for what it’s worth, but it could be so much more. It should have been at least as good as the previous one, in SWG, with the liberty and possibilities, or even better, like in X-Wing Alliance.

 

I think the issue is they could have made it better if they held the game back another year or two, but interest was going to wane. We'll see how they expand it before judging.

 

The cover system is years behind the current standards and requires the player to go to a specific location instead of allowing to take cover anywhere and behind anything and it is restricted to two classes.

 

I hate cover systems, particularly Gears of War style cover systems. Sith do not "take cover". It makes sense for the non-heroic slime like IA and Smugglers, and I can definitely see it for BH and Troopers. But Jedi and Sith do not take cover. What I would like to see is BH/Trooper get a modified cover system, and Sith and Jedi actually be able to DEFLECT blaster bolts back that hurt enemies.

 

Anyway, quite positive points. +1 Cookie.

[Goretzu]

Day Night cycle will be pretty hard for each planet. Each plannet has different cycles.

 

 

That would only make things better.

 

Given that some MMOs have genuinely dynmaic weather moving across maps, it can't be that hard to have different day/night cycles on different planets (and it wouldn't really matter if they were all on a couple of hours cycle like LOTRO and EQ1).