Vydor_HC Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 yes, and as I've been saying, the actual correct word is "want", not need. You don't need any item in the game. You want them. You say need because you're being selfish and falsely entitled. People say "need" to try and feel like they're being less selfish. In all truth, they aren't being any less selfish, and they should be more honest with themselves. Exactly, well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erevan_Kindelar Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Bottom line for me... if you run in PuGs and you do not set the loot rules at the start of the run, then you cannot really complain when this happens. The "Oh, but that is the accepted norm in all games" argument does not and cannot hold any weight - your experience and knowledge does not mean that the other guy has it as well. My groups get very bored when I insist on defining the loot rules and party roles (as I usually play the healer) at the start. 3 minutes sitting there saves drama later on, and helps educate the large number of players who apparently do not know what is and is not acceptable to the group in Need/Greed rolling. Sure, that does not stop an idiot from rolling Need for an item they cannot use when there is a party member who can and will use them, but when I set the rules I also say that anyone breaking them and not correcting it immediately is kicked, they know what will happen when they "Need" on an item. Also blacklisting the character will help, as will mentioning it in General. If you see anything in General where people say they find that kind of thing acceptable, I would suggest blacklisting them too - save you the trouble of having to group with them to find their Need/Greed preferences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleekit Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) y'know as long as its not an instance near end game you can go back (and faceroll some) and grab anything you want for looks... just sayin' i still consider needing on an upgrade for another class that's in the group bad form tho. its just common courtesy from my personal pov and you'll lose tanks and healers mid instance and make many an ignore list doing it. i pass on items a great deal of the time in instances and if i want something that someone else might or something for my companion i ask about in group before rolling. imo it's one of the things that see's me getting thrown many invites (and im "easily replaceable" dps) Edited January 25, 2012 by Sleekit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungan Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I constantly forget that mods are get bound, but I would never roll anything but greed on an item my class or companions can't wear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirska Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I stated an opinion; it's clearly marked as such. There's no logic in the piece that you quoted, so there can't be flawed logic involved. Irrelevant. No, that's not what I said. I said that the person complaining about not getting loot, regardless of their class, is more selfish than whoever took the loot from them. Specifically, that I find the behavior of "complaining about not getting loot" to be more selfish than anything else in the game. Period. Every opinion is based on logic. Every thought is based on logic. It's how we think. No one here is complaining about a particular item of loot. We are complaining about the behavior and attitude of players towards their group mates. There is a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) You're trying to be everything on the same plane. If Jedi robes drop and everyone wants them, then everyone should get to roll.Sure, everyone wants them, everyone will use them, noone is more entitled to them than anyone else. This is stupid and wrong.How so? If you need it explained to you then I'm just going to drink bleach so I don't have to talk to someone so myopic.I'm calling a spade a spade. You want an item and feel entitled to it. Whether a particualr set of pixels that you have control over can equip it or not is irrelevant. If you insist that you are more entitled to it than someone else who has put in the same effort for it, then you're being greedy. You are being more greedy and selfish than someone who just rolls need and doesn't argue that he's more entitled to it. There's no need involved; it's just a word people say to make themselves feel better about the situation. Edited January 25, 2012 by ferroz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Needing for mods, like needing for companions, just like needing to sell on the GTN or to a vendor, just like needing to equip is just selfish.fixed they're all equally selfish acts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanzoV Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 No, they're not any part of the problem. The fact that you have a need to feel like you're in control and can hold people accountable is the problem... the lack of being able to hold them accountable is in no way part of the problem. It's not a control issue, it's a trust issue. When I play with my RL Friend, I know he won't roll on items that his character can't use. What do you roll? Need or Greed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calsetes Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 y'know as long as its not an instance near end game you can go back (and faceroll some) and grab anything you want for looks... just sayin' i still consider needing over on an upgrade for another class in the group bad for tho. it just common courtesy from my personal pov and you'll lose tanks and healers mid instance and make many an ignore list doing it. That's true. I ran... I think it's Mandalorian Raiders or something yesterday or two days ago, saw some nice Trooper pants that fit my "heavy armor" look on my Vanguard. I want them, they had better stats than my current pants, but I didn't win the roll. Boo hoo, I'll run it later when I can easily solo it with Elara. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhuna Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 You're the kind of person I love to win rolls againts for my companion You are the kind of person I love to kick and ignore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Sure, everyone wants them, everyone will use them, noone is more entitled to them than anyone else. Except for the class that the item is designed for. That guy clearly has more of a need--for a given value of "need" in a video game--than the guy who is a different class. You want an item and feel entitled to it. It's not about entitlement, it's about sense. The item is, say, for a Jedi, but has a mod in it that a trooper can use, so the trooper rolls on the item. Now you're saying both classes have an equal claim to the item because no one NEEDS it like it's oxygen or water. Yeah, it's a game. The goal of the game is "progress your character," and the way that's done once you hit 50 is through gear. Saying everyone has the same need for everything because none of it is food and this is just a video game is a flimsy pretext for you to be a greedy *******. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annedromeda Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I think they should just do what City of Heroes does. They randomly generate loot, randomly choose people to give it to, and only the person who received the loot knows what they got, unless they want to share in chat. No hurt feelings, everyone gets stuff, relevant to your toon or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirska Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 No one here is complaining about a particular item of loot. We are complaining about the behavior and attitude of players towards their group mates. There is a big difference. As an example, I get just as angry in a group when this happens when it's not me who is affected. I have left groups when items I can't even equip are stolen from another player. As I said, it's not the item I'm upset about, it's the lack of respect and common courtesy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Every opinion is based on logic. Every thought is based on logic. It's how we think.Irrelevant. There's no logic in the quoted text. In that particualr piece of quoted text there is an opinion with no backing logic. There's no logic present to call faulty logic. Calling faulty logic on that statement is, itself, a fallacious argument. No one here is complaining about a particular item of loot. I'm pretty sure the OP is. We are complaining about the behavior and attitude of players towards their group mates. There is a big difference.No, you're complaining about a particular type of greed and selfishness, and trying to label it as more greedy than rolling need because you want to wear it and it happens to have stats that you feel are better than your current ones when that is just simply not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 No, you're complaining about a particular type of greed and selfishness, and trying to label it as more greedy than rolling need because you want to wear it and it happens to have stats that you feel are better than your current ones when that is just simply not the case. It's not a feeling. Some items are designed for certain classes and it's obvious upon looking at the item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandadoum Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 fixed they're all equally selfish acts. wrong how is it a selfish act needing for a mod that increases my stats? would i be selfish too if i needed for an item that increases my aim for +2 while to another guy it means getting +10 aim? are you telling me that from now on i will have to inspect each player in the group before deciding if i need that item or not? yeaaaah, riiiiiight. not gonna happen. it improves me? then i'll need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 It's not a feeling. Some items are designed for certain classes and it's obvious upon looking at the item.No, it's a feeling. If an item is not restricted to a single class, then it was obviously designed to be worn by anyone who can equip it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 how is it a selfish act needing for a mod that increases my stats? Because you want the mod, but the class that the item was designed for wants the whole thing. He wins, and you're just a selfish male in your teens or twenties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 No, it's a feeling. If an item is not restricted to a single class, then it was obviously designed to be worn by anyone who can equip it. The above statement says it all. I guess your trooper is in Jedi robes and your Jedi sentinel is in smuggler gear. This all makes perfect sense and you should now use the word "logic" like that makes your point of view unassailable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WFSWTOR Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I think the principle reason you get vocal individuals supporting such egocentric behaviour is that they collectively realise that they have to give the impression that their behaviour is accepted by a sufficiently sizeable group of people. Why? Because if they seem isolated or small (as I think they actually are) then the majority will, rightly, stamp on their faces without hesitation. Fortunately, I suspect we are the vast majority so don't pander or back-down if you're faced with those that want to Need for their absent companion over a player or to take something for the 'aesthetics' of an upgrade to you; black-list them and leave because I suspect there's far, far, far more people with your perspective that'll be willing to group. The same cannot be said for the backstabbers and carrions, they'll only get into groups because people are ignorant of their past actions. Personally, I’d refuse to heal somebody that did such a thing and offer an ultimatum. I will not continue to co-operate with an individual or group of individuals that has no sense of collaborative spirit, it’s a principle I won’t deviate from. If everything is intended as a means to an end solely for your benefit rather than the collective then go play something other than an MMO. Naturally, I have no objection to those that Need for companions after everyone in the group has given consent or if a companion has contributed to the effort but attempting to equate whimsical notions of re-sale or aesthetics with the quantifiable effects it will have on longevity or damage for the best-suited recipient is simply asinine to me. I blame these covetous cretins on those akin to Ayn Rand and Milton Freidman; they made being a duplicitous dunce somewhat acceptable again. If a person needs on an item that clearly is not part of their class, I immediately dump the group because as a tank or healer I don't need a person like that, i can find someone else to group with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandadoum Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Because you want the mod, but the class that the item was designed for wants the whole thing. He wins, and you're just a selfish male in your teens or twenties. making personal assumptions coz u run out of arguments, eh? i dont care about the "whole item" argument. it gives me more stats, i need on it. end of story. oh and btw i am 37, married and selfemployed, just FYI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) wrongNo, I'm absolutely right. how is it a selfish act needing for a mod that increases my stats?Because you want it for yourself. That's selfishness. would i be selfish too if i needed for an item that increases my aim for +2 while to another guy it means getting +10 aim?Yes. you want it for your self. You're concerned about yourself, not others. are you telling me that from now on i will have to inspect each player in the group before deciding if i need that item or not?No. it improves me? then i'll need.sure, just don't think that you're being any less selfish than someone who hits need to sell it to a vendor. Edited January 25, 2012 by ferroz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xabana Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Exactly, well said. No, ferroz is simply arguing semantics while completely and purposefully glossing, no skipping, the entire underlying argument in this thread. It's a great tool of the sociopathic mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandadoum Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) sure, just don't think that you're being any less selfish than someone who hits need to sell it to a vendor. you're so full of bull, lol. explain to me please then why is there a greed button and following your logic, when should we use it? Edited January 25, 2012 by zandadoum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirska Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 No, ferroz is simply arguing semantics while completely and purposefully glossing, no skipping, the entire underlying argument in this thread. It's a great tool of the sociopathic mind. I'm fairly certain he's trolling us (he did admit himself that his opinions aren't based on any logical conclusion) and I'm not going to feed him anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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