No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods

[T-rollin]

Point of logic. If there is him and 4 trolls, the only local conclusion is that you are one of the trolls. Simple maths

 

Brilliant deduction Holmes, even if troll wasn't in my name.

[Maccaroth]

Well to be fair, I tend to dissage with any sort of concept of 'unseen social contract' because I think the idea is a bit of a farce. How can I reasonably be expected to uphold a code of conduct that I've never been exposed to?

Allow me to agree with you first.

 

Now. It's how the society and women think - they expect of you to know and follow rules you might never heard of before. I know, I experienced it first hand. There is no difference here, with the looting rules. You either accept it or not. There is no third option really. Rules are mostly stupid and cultural thing but in terms of gaming these rules do have their point and are oriented to be beneficial to all involved, so it's quite easy for me to acknowledge and follow them.

 

I don't think many people would bother rolling need for a companion that they don't ever use. It can happen sure, but no one who is in the "pro-companion need" that I have seen, has said they'd do something like this.

Let's say we have a single person in the group that could benefit from the loot item. Item goes for that person. But if 2 or 3 people in the team have companion who can use that item... it's suddenly 33% or 25% to loot that item. Not reassuring.

 

Now I would most likely actually ask before I rolled need for a companion, especially if I was part of a group of 4 people. Even if no one could wear it, I would likely ask first, because I'd consider that the least likely way to cause conflict.

See? I told you we could get along. Most people avoid conflict and probably that's why I didn't have any problem when playing PUGs on my server. That or I am just a lucky guy.

[Loendar]

sorry to butt in here, but you don't the game progresses, it doesn't revolve around that one encounter. You roll on loot to improve your enjoyment of your character from that point forward...which a companion is definitely a part of.

 

The game doesn't just end with that one encounter.

 

The only reason I bring you into a group with me is to help me accomplish the goal at hand. I don't care what you were doing prior to that spot and I don't really care what you do after that unless we are Guildmates.

 

The point of grouping with you isn't to make your solo life easier through your use of companions - that is what ALL the rest of the game is for. Group drops are to increase your ability to do group content.

[Eldren]

Meaningless, baseless babbling with no factual backing, I'm shocked. Semantics refers to arguing the same thing in 2 different ways. What you said was simply incorrect. That isn't semantics. You being a doctor/lawyer/psychiatrist, I'd think you would know that.

 

 

 

I'll do that when you manage the same.

 

I'd point out that I haven't actually stated my opinion on what my personal preference is for loot distribution are, at all, or that anyone else should be using it, but you'll ignore anything that doesn't allow you to babble your way through a thesaurus, reference conditions with improper terminology, or otherwise be contrary for the sake of it.

 

What you're actually doing here is setting up a classic "red herring", which I'd guess is a result of being unable to actually refute anything I said. And you still haven't answered the question, a plainly-stated one: show me, from one of my own posts, where I've claimed a degree different than the one I've actually claimed.

 

Thing is, you'll be unable to, because I've not claimed anything other than my doctorate. Across multiple threads on this very issue, in fact, any time someone tries to pull out terms like "sociopath" and use them without understanding their actual meaning.

 

I'm content to let this part go; it seems to me you're arguing just to make a lot of sound and fury, since you aren't even arguing the actual topic of this thread. But any time you'd like to actually take the proper steps to be taken seriously in your perspective here, you've been cleanly provided with the means to do so.

[Asturias]

That simple concept is lost for many people in this thread.

 

"To vendor it and keep the creds" is not a need.

"It looks cool on my companion" is not a need.

 

Folks in this thread who are comfortable rolling on loot that they themselves can't use or isn't an upgrade for them are the ones who'll be kicked from any group I run, no questions asked. The caveat is if nobody else can use the item either. A little basic communication is all it takes.

 

Your Companion is part of your character and they all have different stats. Take the Operative Jacket you get out of Black Talon. That is a huge upgrade for MAKO as a Bounty Hunter. She uses Cunning like Agents do. I have no problem with people rolling need for the Companions if its a upgrade for there companions.

 

What I don't get is all this crying over low level gear from flash points and all I am hearing is "I DIDN'T WIN THE ROLL SO I AM MAD" attitude.... Grow up peeps.

 

The real gear is at end game and you get a fair chance at that with the Badge system in place....

[VanorDM]

Conversely, if the item is not an upgrade for my main character or the companion I adventure with, I do not press Need.

 

I would agree with that, and it is the rule I'd use myself.

 

Again in some semblance of keeping the discussion semi on track. There's two issues here.

 

There's a debate between if it is ok to need for a companion or not.

 

There is also an assumption by some that there is no need for that debate.

 

The first I'm happy to discuss, the second I reject completely simply because it is an assumption. I believe the best way to deal with both issues is to quickly discuss it before hand.

 

I might if I were the GL of a pug say something like. "Need if it's an upgrade for you, or your main companion. Greed anything else." If someone strongly objects to that, then we can either discuss it or they can find another group. If the rest of group disagrees then either I follow them or I find a different group.

[Setanian]

 

Let's say we have a single person in the group that could benefit from the loot item. Item goes for that person. But if 2 or 3 people in the team have companion who can use that item... it's suddenly 33% or 25% to loot that item. Not reassuring.

 

Did the other 2 players earn the right to roll on the loot? Yes they did. The rest is irrelevant and being used to somehow grasp at a fact that is just not there.

 

We all do groups to attain a certain goal. I can bet in most PuGs, none of the players are grouping to enhance your chances of gaining loot.

[Vydor_HC]

The only reason I bring you into a group with me is to help me accomplish the goal at hand. I don't care what you were doing prior to that spot and I don't really care what you do after that unless we are Guildmates.

 

The point of grouping with you isn't to make your solo life easier through your use of companions - that is what ALL the rest of the game is for. Group drops are to increase your ability to do group content.

 

You and I differ then, the reason I group is to accomplish a task I cannot by myself. The rewards help from that point forward. Group drops help me even after I leave the group. I do not go into an encounter unequipped to accomplish the task at hand. So, I'm not worried about having to get a drop to help in that instance of the group.

[Loendar]

You and I differ then, the reason I group is to accomplish a task I cannot by myself. The rewards help from that point forward. Group drops help me even after I leave the group. I do not go into an encounter unequipped to accomplish the task at hand. So, I'm not worried about having to get a drop to help in that instance of the group.

 

Actually you said exactly what I said.

 

I'm grouping to do group content (non-solo) and other people are required to do that content. If those I'm grouping with are unable to accomplish the mission because they have grouped with you on five previous runs where you felt your solo companion took precedence over their primary toon needs then we all fail.

 

You included.

[Eldren]

Actually you said exactly what I said.

 

I'm grouping to do group content (non-solo) and other people are required to do that content. If those I'm grouping with are unable to accomplish the mission because they have grouped with you on five previous runs where you felt your solo companion took precedence over their primary toon needs then we all fail.

 

You included.

 

Your argument here works on the presumption of a foundation that you've not actually proven beforehand, so it doesn't hold up. You've no way of knowing if the people are unable to complete the content because they lost out on loot previously to someone choosing top-priority rolls for their companions.

[Setanian]

Actually you said exactly what I said.

 

I'm grouping to do group content (non-solo) and other people are required to do that content. If those I'm grouping with are unable to accomplish the mission because they have grouped with you on five previous runs where you felt your solo companion took precedence over their primary toon needs then we all fail.

 

You included.

 

A lot of assumptions there.. I may be doing the group content because I am specifically looking for the gunslingers panties for my companion.

 

How do you know I already failed 5 times or failed at all with some other group.

 

The *fact* is, what I am doing the group is really none of your concern.

[Vydor_HC]

Actually you said exactly what I said.

 

I'm grouping to do group content (non-solo) and other people are required to do that content. If those I'm grouping with are unable to accomplish the mission because they have grouped with you on five previous runs where you felt your solo companion took precedence over their primary toon needs then we all fail.

 

You included.

 

Actually, no that's not what I am saying. I do not form a group then head to an encounter that I know I will fail because I am depending on getting gear in that group. Rewards are for your character going forward from that point in time. So, rolling for my character isn't determined on my characters state in that group, it's for how I character will perform in the future. Which the companion is an essential part of.

[samht]

I know exactly why ppl roll. Need on gear that they can't use and this is the same reason why bioware will never put in classs based roll system...

 

Drum roll plz

 

To gear their companion --> plain an simple

 

Ppl will use all kinds of excuse for why but the true story is companion. I had an by say her aim was tOo high so she wanted to stack some cunning.. But mako uses cunning so she kept rolling need on both cunnIng and aim gear but swore it was for herself

 

 

Unfortunatly, until there is a cross-realm lfg tool ppl will put up with because it takes too long to replace Group member, this even more true for republic.

 

Signed pro choice on lfg tool

[Maccaroth]

Did the other 2 players earn the right to roll on the loot? Yes they did.

I never said they didn't.

 

The rest is irrelevant and being used to somehow grasp at a fact that is just not there.

That's... your opinion and you're free to have it, although I feel you disregard it mostly because it doesn't suit your point of view. I only explain the reasons why people act one way of the other.

 

We all do groups to attain a certain goal. I can bet in most PuGs, none of the players are grouping to enhance your chances of gaining loot.

Now I have to tell you to read what I write before posting something like that. Of course they aren't grouping to enhance my chances of gaining loot. They are enhancing their own chances to gain loot that will be the best for their character by - in turn - allowing me to have mine.

[Creed_Buhallin]

If there are four players in the group all doing their part and you are selfishly rolling on gear that will only aid you when not grouped with other players, while taking advantage of those players to do it, then you should go elsewhere.

Since when is this a requirement?

 

A healing Mercenary shouldn't need much in the way of armor or blaster DPS while in a group, but when they're solo they do. Would you tell them they couldn't roll on a blaster that would improve their damage?

 

You guys really should stop pulling out new rules, not only is it getting impossible to keep up with all your justifications, but you're making things up so fast I don't think you've thought them through very well.

[VanorDM]

But if 2 or 3 people in the team have companion who can use that item... it's suddenly 33% or 25% to loot that item. Not reassuring.

 

I can see that. But it's also going to depend on what people are likely to use.

 

I'm curious now what the commonly used companions are.

 

For Jedi Guardians most of us seem to use Kira, so that's light +will stuff. Same as Sages/Shadows.

 

For Troopers they will most likely be using the same armor that they wear heavy +aim

 

For Shadows I'd say maybe Doc, that's medium +cunning, Sages will likely stick with a tank so heavy +aim.

 

Smugglers will want a tank so heavy +str I'd guess, or maybe med +cunning which they already wear.

 

Don't know the imp side so well so not sure.

 

Edit: And now I'll complete my thought process.

 

Based on above, it seems kinda unlikely you'd be in a group where 3 of the people would have use of the same gear.

Edited January 27, 2012 by VanorDM

[Loendar]

Your argument here works on the presumption of a foundation that you've not actually proven beforehand, so it doesn't hold up. You've no way of knowing if the people are unable to complete the content because they lost out on loot previously to someone choosing top-priority rolls for their companions.

 

The more people that approach the loot concept like the poster I mentioned the higher the percentage of the events unfolding taking place.

 

I have no idea why we are failing BUT I can see a direct correlation between the attitude towards loot being 'free for all' to the detriment of the whole and failing a mission.

 

Yes, it is hypothetical but not completely out of left field given the opinions expressed in this thread.

[ClyntKeelan]

 

Personally, I’d refuse to heal somebody that did such a thing and offer an ultimatum. I will not continue to co-operate with an individual or group of individuals that has no sense of collaborative spirit, it’s a principle I won’t deviate from. If everything is intended as a means to an end solely for your benefit rather than the collective then go play something other than an MMO.

 

 

Hallelujah! As a victim of this very phenomenon, allow me to share... I'd been FPing with the same group for a while and we were all friendly, and then just recently BAM, one of the Jedi presses 'Need' for a pair of bracers Cunning-high (my stat) - and I'm like 'What The Holy Twi'Leck You Go and Do That For'? Was very upset. Reasoned that it MUST have been for companion - could not have been purely to spite me? Lost faith in group completely, and now ignore them.

We were lvl 50 - had been groupin for a long time. Now I'm groupin with other folks and devoutly ignorin the first bunch.

 

Plenty more Jedi in the sea, let's face it.

 

So your companion got my bracers, fella: take him with you next time you go on an FP!

 

Hah!

[T-rollin]

What you're actually doing here is setting up a classic "red herring", which I'd guess is a result of being unable to actually refute anything I said. And you still haven't answered the question, a plainly-stated one: show me, from one of my own posts, where I've claimed a degree different than the one I've actually claimed.

 

Thing is, you'll be unable to, because I've not claimed anything other than my doctorate. Across multiple threads on this very issue, in fact, any time someone tries to pull out terms like "sociopath" and use them without understanding their actual meaning.

 

I'm content to let this part go; it seems to me you're arguing just to make a lot of sound and fury, since you aren't even arguing the actual topic of this thread. But any time you'd like to actually take the proper steps to be taken seriously in your perspective here, you've been cleanly provided with the means to do so.

 

You're confusing not being able to refute what you say with not bothering to waste the time.

 

If someone said "The Sun runs on frog farts", I wouldn't bother trying to refute them, either, because when someone is willing to put as much babbling BS into their statements as you are, I already know up front that the effort is wasted.

 

You mention 'sound and fury', seemingly without realizing that would be the entirety of the content of your posts. You speak a lot without actually saying anything. That's why we're having this discussion; You've run the course of the babbling you can do on the thread's original issue, so now you're latching on to whatever else you can find to be argumentative about, like people using terms incorrectly, responding to random troll badgering, and the like.

 

Has any of this made you think about leaving the PC for a bit to do something that isn't killing brain cells?

[Loendar]

Since when is this a requirement?

 

A healing Mercenary shouldn't need much in the way of armor or blaster DPS while in a group, but when they're solo they do. Would you tell them they couldn't roll on a blaster that would improve their damage?

 

You guys really should stop pulling out new rules, not only is it getting impossible to keep up with all your justifications, but you're making things up so fast I don't think you've thought them through very well.

 

Not at all - the item is for their toon and not their companion.

 

And these aren't 'new rules' - or really rules at all. The concept that a primary toon should take precedence over a companion is at the core of the issue.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Loendar

[Eldren]

The more people that approach the loot concept like the poster I mentioned the higher the percentage of the events unfolding taking place.

 

I have no idea why we are failing BUT I can see a direct correlation between the attitude towards loot being 'free for all' to the detriment of the whole and failing a mission.

 

Yes, it is hypothetical but not completely out of left field given the opinions expressed in this thread.

 

I think that's a major part of it: we aren't failing, not that I can see on my server at least. People are grouping, people are finishing content, and I've yet to hear a single person in any zone, including Fleet or Kaas City, calling out loot ninjas as a warning to the server community. Given that I'm on an RP realm, community tends to tighten up quite a bit so people can tell cohesive stories, so things like this would become fairly obvious in a rapid fashion.

 

But all that does is provide anecdotal evidence that the dire predictions of ostracization for purported ninjas isn't (yet) occurring.

[Setanian]

I know exactly why ppl roll. Need on gear that they can't use and this is the same reason why bioware will never put in classs based roll system...

 

Drum roll plz

 

To gear their companion --> plain an simple

 

Ppl will use all kinds of excuse for why but the true story is companion. I had an by say her aim was tOo high so she wanted to stack some cunning.. But mako uses cunning so she kept rolling need on both cunnIng and aim gear but swore it was for herself

 

 

Unfortunatly, until there is a cross-realm lfg tool ppl will put up with because it takes too long to replace Group member, this even more true for republic.

 

Signed pro choice on lfg tool

 

You need to accept, that there is no 'excuse' at all. People roll how they want because it is their entitlement to do so.

[Vydor_HC]

I know exactly why ppl roll. Need on gear that they can't use and this is the same reason why bioware will never put in classs based roll system...

 

Drum roll plz

 

To gear their companion --> plain an simple

 

Ppl will use all kinds of excuse for why but the true story is companion. I had an by say her aim was tOo high so she wanted to stack some cunning.. But mako uses cunning so she kept rolling need on both cunnIng and aim gear but swore it was for herself

 

 

Unfortunatly, until there is a cross-realm lfg tool ppl will put up with because it takes too long to replace Group member, this even more true for republic.

 

Signed pro choice on lfg tool

 

-nods-

 

Rolling for companions is a big part of this discussion. It comes down to trying to settle on the definition of need, which we all pretty much differ.

[sjmc]

Smugglers will want a tank so heavy +str I'd guess, or maybe med +cunning which they already wear.

Smugglers' first tank is +AIM (Corso), but they also get a Wookie tank (+STR), Risha DPS (+Cunning), Akaavi tank-dps (+AIM) and Guss (who I just got).

 

I use Akaavi Spar, who likes +AIM.

[Eldren]

You're confusing not being able to refute what you say with not bothering to waste the time.

 

If someone said "The Sun runs on frog farts", I wouldn't bother trying to refute them, either, because when someone is willing to put as much babbling BS into their statements as you are, I already know up front that the effort is wasted.

 

You mention 'sound and fury', seemingly without realizing that would be the entirety of the content of your posts. You speak a lot without actually saying anything. That's why we're having this discussion; You've run the course of the babbling you can do on the thread's original issue, so now you're latching on to whatever else you can find to be argumentative about, like people using terms incorrectly, responding to random troll badgering, and the like.

 

Has any of this made you think about leaving the PC for a bit to do something that isn't killing brain cells?

 

Your "not bothering to waste time" looks an awful lot like its opposite, T-rollin. If you weren't wasting time (which I honestly think is a phrase you're using to disguise the fact that you can't refute anything I've said), you wouldn't continue posting, particularly in response to something I've personally said.

 

My position on the looting issue remains both clear and unassailable, and easily-searchable even within the last few pages of this thread. You? At this point you're switching to personal attacks because it would seem you can't actually do anything more to contribute, for or against, to this particular issue. Just a supposition on my part, but it's so far born out by the reality of your posts.