The_Archon Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 *sigh* Do you really not get that your logic has NO limits? Everyone can hit the need button on everything. Everything, in the very least, can be sold for credits. So, in essence, with your logic, you have a completely valid claim on every single thing that drops. Is that really how you want this game to be? I'll ask you as well: do you understand the difference between the concept of need and greed? "Hmm this is an upgrade for my weapon." "HAY I CAN SELL THIS FOR 50c!" Everyone *could* hit the need button every time on everything. If they were stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldren Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 That would require the same kind of effort you refuse to exert in your own posts. Things are falling apart for you now, T-rollin, I can see that. You're alluding to things that haven't happened, and retreating behind logical inconsistencies in order to show why you can't back up your own statements. I mean, if that's what works for you, by all means, continue. Just realize you're doing yourself more disservice than any aspersions you attempt to cast on your opposition ever could. More power to ya, brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galbatorrix Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 if you play the way you claim to, I'd be delighted to be on that ignore list. But the real reason you won't petition, is probably because the most fairest and easiest way to fix this, is to remove the 'need' button. And that just wouldn't fit in with your scheme at all. No, removing the need button would make running flashpoints pointless after the first run to see the content. You grind those because the gear usually is several levels better than what you can currently get and it lasts you a while. People needing on everything takes away most people's sole reason for running them in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-rollin Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Things are falling apart for you now, T-rollin, I can see that. You're alluding to things that haven't happened, and retreating behind logical inconsistencies in order to show why you can't back up your own statements. Annoying when someone else does it, isn't it? FYI - That would be to hide not being able to back them up Professor, not show them. Edited January 27, 2012 by T-rollin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanorDM Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 It's the same question I keep asking myself when I happen to break some IRL social tabu. Well to be fair, I tend to dissage with any sort of concept of 'unseen social contract' because I think the idea is a bit of a farce. How can I reasonably be expected to uphold a code of conduct that I've never been exposed to? If you allow needs of the companion to be treated the same way as the needs of the player's character then you'd ruin social contract (since everyone could take need on anything). I don't think many people would bother rolling need for a companion that they don't ever use. It can happen sure, but no one who is in the "pro-companion need" that I have seen, has said they'd do something like this. Basing a rule on the exception is a bad idea. Now I would most likely actually ask before I rolled need for a companion, especially if I was part of a group of 4 people. Even if no one could wear it, I would likely ask first, because I'd consider that the least likely way to cause conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Archon Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 the most fairest and easiest way to fix this, is to remove the 'need' button. And that just wouldn't fit in with your scheme at all. I think booting you fixes the problem just fine, personally. Everyone else who communicates becomes smarter than the RNG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 That simple concept is lost for many people in this thread. "To vendor it and keep the creds" is not a need. "It looks cool on my companion" is not a need. Folks in this thread who are comfortable rolling on loot that they themselves can't use or isn't an upgrade for them are the ones who'll be kicked from any group I run, no questions asked. The caveat is if nobody else can use the item either. A little basic communication is all it takes. Forget the communication. Let me present something to you. When we get to loot stage, we all, every member gets an option to roll. I may be low on credits I may want to gear my companion I may want to pass it tony wife. The bottom line here is this. The loot is not yours. It belongs to the player that won the roll. You have nothing to do with it after you roll. if you won, you won, if you lost, try again another time. Those are the facts. Now, obviously if we all rolled 'need' just to sell stuff that could be considered greedy in that credits are easy to get and that piece of loot might have helped your stats. In everything, we make choices. If we are what I call a good Christian, I weigh the alternatives. i.e.: I roll need and sell, or I be a nice chap, and just pass it to you. And that's all fine. But no-one, and I mean no-one has the right to tell me how to choose, especially when I see it for what it is and that is a gain on their part at my expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 People needing on everything takes away most people's[citation needed] sole reason for running them in the first place.Do you have some sort of statistics to back the claim of "most" people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galbatorrix Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Incorrect.,. I have a valid entitlement to roll and see if I win.. And there-in lies the bit you can't, or more to the point I believe, won't accept. Did you even read my point? Everyone has a valid entitlement to roll need on everything. EVERYTHING. Whether that be a tiny boost to a stat thanks to a mod, an appearance you like, companion gear, extra things to sell for abilities, etc. Your logic has no limits. You think that if the piece can benefit you in any way, you should get to roll on it over people that would receive more benefits from it. That logic is flawed because EVERYTHING could benefit everyone in some way or another. Most people I've ran with are better than that though, so luckily people like you seem to be few and far between in my personal experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I think booting you fixes the problem just fine, personally. Everyone else who communicates becomes smarter than the RNG. You post this is some frantic attempt to believe that I actually care what you think, personally or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realID Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I only run with guildies so it's not an issue. That being said, I'd leave the group on the spot if it were to happen to me. I understand that robes look bad. My Guardian is in full Trooper gear, my Sentinel is in full Smuggler gear. I understand all about the big butts and the sudden baldness caused by hoods... But if a player is actually using the stats the gear dropped with, they should get priority IMO. Followed by players wanting it for the looks. Followed by companions. But again, not stuff I have to worry about thankfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galbatorrix Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I'll ask you as well: do you understand the difference between the concept of need and greed? "Hmm this is an upgrade for my weapon." "HAY I CAN SELL THIS FOR 50c!" Everyone *could* hit the need button every time on everything. If they were stupid. I agree with you. My post was a counter post to make a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldren Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Annoying when someone else does it, isn't it? FYI - That would be to hide not being able to back them up Professor, not show them. This thread likely isn't the place to argue semantics, though for what it's worth, my wife's English degree would definitely argue against your attempted rebuttal, particularly since it seems you didn't grasp what I was actually saying to begin with. But... meh, splitting hairs. Arguments over semantics aside, I'm still waiting for you to actually back up your claim that I've lain claim to a different degree than my actual one. Unless you want to drop that claim, admit you were wrong, and go back to attempting to convince people that your method of loot distribution is the one they should all be using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Did you even read my point? Everyone has a valid entitlement to roll need on everything. EVERYTHING. Whether that be a tiny boost to a stat thanks to a mod, an appearance you like, companion gear, extra things to sell for abilities, etc. Your logic has no limits. You think that if the piece can benefit you in any way, you should get to roll on it over people that would receive more benefits from it. That logic is flawed because EVERYTHING could benefit everyone in some way or another. Most people I've ran with are better than that though, so luckily people like you seem to be few and far between in my personal experiences.Were you going to make a point some where? Yes, people have earned the right to choose to roll the dice for anything that they want. That's the design of the game. That's the fair way to do things. Is there something you don't understand about it, so that we can help explain it to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Did you even read my point? Everyone has a valid entitlement to roll need on everything. EVERYTHING. Whether that be a tiny boost to a stat thanks to a mod, an appearance you like, companion gear, extra things to sell for abilities, etc. Your logic has no limits. You think that if the piece can benefit you in any way, you should get to roll on it over people that would receive more benefits from it. That logic is flawed because EVERYTHING could benefit everyone in some way or another. Most people I've ran with are better than that though, so luckily people like you seem to be few and far between in my personal experiences. You are throwing up a straw man argument. if you read my replies all the way through, all I have ever said was, everyone is entitled to roll how they please. if someone decides to roll 'need' on everything that is a thing you then have to address. They are entitled to roll that way, but it would not be the norm. My argument is against your stated claim that *I* should conform to your loot rules. i.e.: Your belief that the gunslingers panties were yours by some divine right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Dude, give it up. The only people left in this thread are you and the same 4 trolls that pop up in every thread on this issue.I've only seen 2 trolls, and I don't think either of them have posted for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galbatorrix Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 "especially when I see it for what it is and that is a gain on their part at my expense." Wow...... so... uh... I give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Dude, give it up. The only people left in this thread are you and the same 4 trolls that pop up in every thread on this issue. Point of logic. If there is him and 4 trolls, the only local conclusion is that you are one of the trolls. Simple maths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanorDM Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 "To vendor it and keep the creds" is not a need. I would say that most people would agree with that. "It looks cool on my companion" is not a need. Appearance only? Then yeah that I hazard to say most would agree with as well, but clearly less then the above. But what if it's a big upgrade for my companion? That's not a matter of appearance, it's a matter of function. The issue is, that in order to deal with that case, it requires more and more rules regarding when you can or can't roll need. I believe the simple answer is, if it is a upgrade for me, then I roll need. The fact that it's only useful when solo, or equiped on my companion doesn't matter. I didn't join that FP for the sake of getting gear that improves me in group only situations, I did it to get gear that will improve my character period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 "especially when I see it for what it is and that is a gain on their part at my expense." Wow...... so... uh... I give up. Cool. Another one converted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 "especially when I see it for what it is and that is a gain on their part at my expense." Wow...... so... uh... I give up.you know, if you use the quote button, you might be able to actually preserve context of a discussion. of course, since you mostly are just flinging poo and bringing up irrelevancies... I guess you're not really much into preserving context, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 This isn't that hard to grasp. The task at hand wasn't accomplished by your companion. Your companion is not actively participating in the fight (in this example) and brings nothing to the table. Your companion is not entitled to jack over an active participant in the group unless that is decided up front. sorry to butt in here, but you don't the game progresses, it doesn't revolve around that one encounter. You roll on loot to improve your enjoyment of your character from that point forward...which a companion is definitely a part of. The game doesn't just end with that one encounter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-rollin Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 This thread likely isn't the place to argue semantics, though for what it's worth, my wife's English degree would definitely argue against your attempted rebuttal, particularly since it seems you didn't grasp what I was actually saying to begin with. But... meh, splitting hairs. Meaningless, baseless babbling with no factual backing, I'm shocked. Semantics refers to arguing the same thing in 2 different ways. What you said was simply incorrect. That isn't semantics. You being a doctor/lawyer/psychiatrist, I'd think you would know that. Arguments over semantics aside, I'm still waiting for you to actually back up your claim that I've lain claim to a different degree than my actual one. Unless you want to drop that claim, admit you were wrong, and go back to attempting to convince people that your method of loot distribution is the one they should all be using? I'll do that when you manage the same. I'd point out that I haven't actually stated my opinion on what my personal preference is for loot distribution are, at all, or that anyone else should be using it, but you'll ignore anything that doesn't allow you to babble your way through a thesaurus, reference conditions with improper terminology, or otherwise be contrary for the sake of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galbatorrix Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Cool. Another one converted No, I don't agree. I simply refuse to continue arguing. If you look back, I probably have over 100 posts in this thread. Needless to say, work has been slow today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjmc Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I believe the simple answer is, if it is a upgrade for me, then I roll need. The fact that it's only useful when solo, or equiped on my companion doesn't matter. I didn't join that FP for the sake of getting gear that improves me in group only situations, I did it to get gear that will improve my character period. Conversely, if the item is not an upgrade for my main character or the companion I adventure with, I do not press Need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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