Why are so many people against Arena in Swtor?

[Iamurfriend]

This is simply not true, every rogue playing at top 10 ratings were pretty much full-on stacked with PvP gear simply because of how quickly they got bursted without it.

 

PvE stacking in arenas ONLY worked on lower ratings, no class could use more then 3-4 PvE parts max without gimping themselves too much.

 

Oh I agree with you for the most part. I'm talking about a rogue using 3-5 pve pieces rather then just maximizing resilience.

[Kaliem]

Ive dabbled in WOW arena with a druid/lock combo.... ..

 

IF THEY ADD ARENAS, why not just have BETTING/GAMBLING for credits be the reward? Possibly teams can challenge and wager eachother, with NO GEAR rewards. This will eliminate any "extra" grind, while giving the top teams notoriety and some extra ching!

 

Really what would the argument be with this? Other than crybaby arena teams saying they want more... this is the MMO lifestyle though.

 

I really like this idea, I'd take this over gear.

[Iamurfriend]

Actually it wasn't when you had friends, granted some comps I played where strong (oh and no I rarely played healer comps for more than a day or two) for example, Shadowpriest rogue was always fairly strong in the upper quadrant of decent, but then I'd roll out some enhance Rogue, or enhance mage, or maybe some ret paladin warrior hunter, or oh my lord it would take me forever to relay every comp I played in all those years .

and as I said varying success. sometimes I'd be up around 2200/2300 missing Gladiator as a strong dps comp, like Mage rogue warlock, othertimes i'd be sat around 1800/1900 not really moving so much playing enhance shadowpriest prot pally, the comp never got me down, the struggle was fun.

 

 

Even if all my friends are on and willing to subject themselves, I'm still only 50% playing with people I want too. and the other half drags my soul away in a game or two.

 

 

And that's all fine and dandy, I never once said I thought your reasons for liking objective based combat was wrong, if you like that all well in good, whats wrong with me having my preference.

 

 

I already went over this, suffice to say I found healer vs healer comps gave too much of a net for mistakes to be made.

 

I never said it wasn't flawed. One team did have a advantage as the gates opened, but it didn't define the end result.

 

 

They said they're adding rated warzones so the same thing is going to be happening anyway, just from that instead.

 

I've lost many warzones, I had High warlord, and champion on two other characters back in Vanilla. and yeah doing premade vs premade was reasonably fun for a while, but I never looked back after arena, oh and I've never complained at anyone on my team for losing, because I don't take it seriously, just like I've never complained about losing an arena match, at the end of the day it's a game, why upset people randomly over pixels, when you can just sign up again and try harder?

 

 

You seem like a very serious, slightly angry man. Let go once in a while.

 

lol this guy just owned you bro

[Kolbenito]

Really show me a top world player that was wearing all PVE gear in all Arena matches?

 

Or even half?

 

Go for it....

 

Didn't say full PVE gear, said PVE gear. Weapons, trinkets usually.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Kolbenito

[nametakenz]

Im pretty sure so many people are against it because its a true measure of skill and there really isnt one in the game atm.

 

Heres an example from yesterday. This really terrible powertech was talking about how he is probably the best powertech on the server because hes battlemaster and blah blah. But he is pretty bad

 

90% of people are very bad at pvp but the current system still allows them to run around with "battlemaster" or higher titles and impress other people

 

Arena would give the coveted titles to people with skill only...

 

people that could get these titles 2%

people that could not 98%

 

You now have 98% of the people against arena in swtor

[Delavager]

Lol why are we talking about WoW PvE items? It doesn't matter.

 

WHEN they implement arena (cause they will eventually), it probably won't be like WoW. So to quote WoW issues is pretty useless.

 

BW WILL implement arena (eventually) how they deem fit. They'll probably take WoW as an example of a lot of stuff NOT to do.

 

Saying "Balance will then be about Arena" is a pretty useless argument. Balance struggle between Operations and Warzones already exist. They could make Arena secondary and say "eff it" to balance in Arenas and soley focus on Warzones for balance.

 

Basically they can do anything they want with Arena, and they will do it eventually.

[BothanFourTwenty]

Lol why are we talking about WoW PvE items? It doesn't matter.

 

WHEN they implement arena (cause they will eventually), it probably won't be like WoW. So to quote WoW issues is pretty useless.

 

BW WILL implement arena (eventually) how they deem fit. They'll probably take WoW as an example of a lot of stuff NOT to do.

 

Saying "Balance will then be about Arena" is a pretty useless argument. Balance struggle between Operations and Warzones already exist. They could make Arena secondary and say "eff it" to balance in Arenas and soley focus on Warzones for balance.

 

Basically they can do anything they want with Arena, and they will do it eventually.

 

I highly doubt they will put it in the game with things being said by certain individuals who implemented it in WoW. Not unless it is a DRASTICALLY different type of arena.

[Kolbenito]

It depended on the state of the game. I played Warrior, no reason at all to wear PVE gear in TBC. ArP was just too good in WotLK to pass up (PVE gear from raiding). Cataclysm back to no reason to wear any PVE gear except maybe a supertigerbloodonkulus trinket from the easy mode raids.

 

In addition to the challenge of balancing classes for PVE and PVP this is like the other side of that coin. Keeping PVE gear out of rated games PVP is not going to be easy. It's not fair to raiders to skimp on gear for them, and it's not fair to PVP to have PVE items be that good.

 

This game already has some complaints about that with some 2 piece bonuses on the Rakata set. I don't know about specifics of which 2 piece. It's just part of that whole thing of having PVE and PVP in the same game where people do both. I am not jealous of the guys who's job it is to sort all this stuff out and make everyone happy lol.

[Knifewrench]

Find a viable team in any format that does not have a sage/sorc or merc/commando in it.

[Noctournys]

This is simply not true, every rogue playing at top 10 ratings were pretty much full-on stacked with PvP gear simply because of how quickly they got bursted without it.

 

PvE stacking in arenas ONLY worked on lower ratings, no class could use more then 3-4 PvE parts max without gimping themselves too much.

 

I think you werent even playing when what we're talking about happened.

 

Until they linked Cheat Death to resilience..

 

no top rated rogue wore more than about 5% resilience.

 

The boost they got to dodge/parry/damage output from PvE gear was simply too great and their survivability didn't suffer at all.

 

Warriors through S4 wore PvE gear in every slot they could get away with. ArPen was simply far too good and scaled FAR too well to do otherwise.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Noctournys

[va_wanderer]

Arenas have never been, nor ever will be needed to determine if X player is better than Y player at PvP.

 

That would be the /duel command, ladies and gentlemen. What arena players want is shiny gear for dueling, for doing something that has zero effect on the game whatsoever.

 

It ruined WoW PvP, since it channeled most of PvP into it's own literal sandbox and the devs never successfully integrated it with the world as a result. It segregated the PvP community from the rest of the game. It turned it into the elitist ************ that is modern "WoW E-sport".

 

Arena made PvP a dirty word. Keep it out of SWTOR. You want real PvP? Put targets deep inside Republic or Empire territory that give unique rewards, but to get there players have to cut their way through while PvP, hence vulnerable to attack from the other faction. Reward unique mounts. Tokens towards PvP OR PvE gear. Tons of Valor. Heck, have lesser targets all over the place. Give Imps a reason to invade Republic areas all up and down the level range, 10-50.

 

Real PvPers can deal with a hostile, random environment full of PvP/PvE enemies and come out on top. That's how they should have built up Ilum, rather than the derpy box-collecting battlefield that exists now. And certainly not by making little arenas where people can prance around hidden away from the game drooling over their ratings (which many a team would deliberately throw/cheat matches for to insure their sweet rating loots).

 

I want SWTOR PvPers to be the guys who wade into Coruscant, blow up half the Republic's High Command while fending off Zerg-level hordes of Republic players the entire time and leave the Senate building looking like it did after the Sith crashed a shuttle into it.

 

Or the Republic bunch that invaded the Imperial Fleet, blew up the space station's primary power core and gunned down a visiting Dark Council member while six zillion ticked off Imperial players are spraying them down with enough force lightning to power Korriban- and they killed THEM too.

 

Arena doesn't encourage that. It encourages you to go play in a ring, not play in the game. We need PvP that is a visible, striking part of the game. Ilum failed that. Arena would be an excuse to fail worse.

[Trigr_Fingr]

This is not WoW.

 

let me paste what I said in another arena thread: Pass on having arena in SWTOR. Then you will see gear obtained only from Arena, then that adds an extra step for people to grind in order to survive in any kind of PvP

 

Very closed minded. I enjoy how since there is a 2v2, 3v3, 5v5 bracket on wow. then that automaticlly means that anyone cannot do that in any other game. Get real my friend. If this is not wow then I guess swtor should not have ilum, or organized PvP for that matter because wow simply came out before swtor. If your entire argument was well if one had it in there game then another game cannot take that idea and run with it, possibly even making it better in any way shape or form. You my friend need to rethink what you say before you say it.

[Larudior]

Glad to see this thread being so active <3.

[Ewgal]

I just think that Arena is an outmoded Blizzard concept of PvP

 

Bioware need to do something new.

 

Some kind of rated-war zone fusion with more warzones might be the way to go.

 

My 2 cents.

[Darth_Gao_Gao]

a lot of people are against arena because it's bad.

 

hope this helps.

[SoupyNuggs]

I just think that Arena is an outmoded Blizzard concept of PvP

 

Bioware need to do something new.

 

Some kind of rated-war zone fusion with more warzones might be the way to go.

 

My 2 cents.

 

It's not exactly a Blizzard only concept. The difference between arena and rated warzones is in rated warzones, dying has very little consequence (outside of failing to complete an objective), which allows for very zergy strategies/styles.

 

However, at the heart of arenas/ladder-based PvP lies the idea that you are only allowed that 1 life during the entirety of the match. This increases the competitive stakes a lot more and really enhances PvP gameplay, strategy, teamwork, and decision making.

 

To say I only do arena for the "shiny gear" is entirely untrue. I enjoy PvP in strategy games like SC2, and in FPSs like Counter-strike, and in DotA. In those games, no one has an advantage over another based on gear/rating. Everyone is equally "geared" at the beginning of every match, and winners are determined by skill. If SWTOR arena could follow a similar design implementation, it could be very fun and very successful.

 

I will agree with a lot of people on this, BW need need NEEDS to address ability delay before anyone can seriously consider implementing arena-style PvP.

[Paganini]

Actually it wasn't when you had friends, granted some comps I played where strong (oh and no I rarely played healer comps for more than a day or two) for example, Shadowpriest rogue was always fairly strong in the upper quadrant of decent, but then I'd roll out some enhance Rogue, or enhance mage, or maybe some ret paladin warrior hunter, or oh my lord it would take me forever to relay every comp I played in all those years .

and as I said varying success. sometimes I'd be up around 2200/2300 missing Gladiator as a strong dps comp, like Mage rogue warlock, othertimes i'd be sat around 1800/1900 not really moving so much playing enhance shadowpriest prot pally, the comp never got me down, the struggle was fun.

 

 

Even if all my friends are on and willing to subject themselves, I'm still only 50% playing with people I want too. and the other half drags my soul away in a game or two.

 

 

And that's all fine and dandy, I never once said I thought your reasons for liking objective based combat was wrong, if you like that all well in good, whats wrong with me having my preference.

 

 

I already went over this, suffice to say I found healer vs healer comps gave too much of a net for mistakes to be made.

 

I never said it wasn't flawed. One team did have a advantage as the gates opened, but it didn't define the end result.

 

 

They said they're adding rated warzones so the same thing is going to be happening anyway, just from that instead.

 

I've lost many warzones, I had High warlord, and champion on two other characters back in Vanilla. and yeah doing premade vs premade was reasonably fun for a while, but I never looked back after arena, oh and I've never complained at anyone on my team for losing, because I don't take it seriously, just like I've never complained about losing an arena match, at the end of the day it's a game, why upset people randomly over pixels, when you can just sign up again and try harder?

 

 

You seem like a very serious, slightly angry man. Let go once in a while.

 

This post. I like it.

[Kynesis]

Because they come from WoW, and in WoW there was a very widespread - but very mistaken - perception that every single change to class mechanics and numbers was due solely to PvP.

 

"Stop nerfing my PvE because of Arena!" was a very, very common cry from people. They usually ignored the fact that most changes were due to PvE concerns as well.

 

The Warrior Shield Slam damage nerf was a good example. The PvE community whined and whined that their PvE was being nerfed because of PvP, even though Blizzard very clearly stated that they wanted to spread out Prot Warrior damage across their other abilities rather than having 80% of Prot Warrior damage in PvE come from one button.

 

It's funny, because in general PvP balance and fixes were practically ignored by Blizzard. Legendary quality PvE items in PvP, Arena maps that STILL had serious terrain bugs (Feared into the wall again, yay...) and other issues that just never got addressed.

 

So now we have these people in SWTOR, and they're just petrified of the idea of any sort of organized, competitive PvP because they still think that their PvE DPS/Healing/etc will get nerfed into the ground if anything happens in PvP.

 

 

This is why I fear and loathe Arena - the nerfs and continual class adjustments reduced the whole thing to a homogenous mass - which for competitive PvP is precisely what you need.

 

WoW already has Arena's totally covered, League of Legends and other purely PvP games are really great at what they do - what possible gain can there be in trying to compete with them by copying them?

 

If you do choose to go the Arena route and don't prove to be a better PvP game than the other offerings, your precious subscribers will simply transfer to the better Arena game and I'll bet any money you like that those Arena games will become ever more 'flavour of the month' as they forever tinker with balance and features.

 

Aside from that, SWTOR is still in it's infancy, only just out of Beta and very obviously so.

Tacking an Arena system on top of getting even basic PvP to a reasonable point (which it is most definitely *not* yet) would be a complete disaster.

 

(edited to correct autocorrect incorrectly second-guessing me)

Edited February 4, 2012 by Kynesis

[iceperson]

there is not nor will there ever be arena in swtor

 

umad?

Edited February 4, 2012 by iceperson

[iceperson]

I made it to 2400 cliking with a rl friend playing a druid that didn't know how to shift and run so I don't know if that is really saying much lol.

 

you just reiterated my point, there's a reason half the glads in season 5 were dk, lock, pali. it's like that pretty much every season with certain comps.

[iceperson]

http://www.arenastats.com/

 

 

lol at the people who say it's not about the comps. i guess only bads play the classes that have terrible representation too

[hategambit]

Arenas have never been, nor ever will be needed to determine if X player is better than Y player at PvP.

 

That would be the /duel command, ladies and gentlemen. What arena players want is shiny gear for dueling, for doing something that has zero effect on the game whatsoever.

 

i want an arena.

 

and i dont care about lewt or gear or phat titles or silly efffing mounts.

 

i just want to play arena

 

 

so you are wrong.

 

also, duel is not a valid option.

 

please explain how i can duel a player of the opposite faction?

 

NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE.

 

even if you get into a duel on ilum, people will just come over and interupt it.

 

DUELS ARE NOT AN OPTION.

 

arenas dont HAVE to be for gear.

 

stop assuming that everything done in this game HAS to mirror wow.

 

failures.

[Trigr_Fingr]

i want an arena.

 

and i dont care about lewt or gear or phat titles or silly efffing mounts.

 

i just want to play arena

 

 

so you are wrong.

 

also, duel is not a valid option.

 

please explain how i can duel a player of the opposite faction?

 

NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE.

 

even if you get into a duel on ilum, people will just come over and interupt it.

 

DUELS ARE NOT AN OPTION.

 

arenas dont HAVE to be for gear.

 

stop assuming that everything done in this game HAS to mirror wow.

 

failures.

 

 

I agree, make it to where you don't get gear. Only for bragging rights. And or a title or something. And a 1v1 arena would also be fun. What he said ^^

[LordRygarr]

Because Swtor ******'s cant even 1v1. To many bads scared of goods.

[Shanst]

Actually since you like child slang here is one for you " carebear". Arena's are for carebears who can't function in a non sterile environment without all their cooldowns and the comp of the month.

 

WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER!

 

Carebears like arena's. They like to be in control with all of their cooldowns up in a controlled environment where the unexpected cannot happen. This is an MMO. For those of you that don't know what that means, i'll go ahead and type it out for you. Massive Multiplayer Online. There is nothing Massive about 2v2 3v3 or even 4v4 fights. The pvp community is already thin enough in a PVE game. We don't need to thin it out anymore.

 

And I got 2.1k rating in WoW as an Enhancement Shaman back in WotLK. But it was always an uphill battle because fotm comps and class imbalances that never got fixed. World of Roguecraft or World of Magecraft anyone? SWTOR doesn't need this. They need Illum objectives on EVERY planet in the game. And they need to promote World pvp. They need more maps and a few more game styles for WZ's and all of their pvp attention should be focused on those things right there and the pvp in this game could be legendary.