zumbledum Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 this moral choice system is just a little bit nuts, im wondering what the most out of whack things you have seen are. for examples the two things that happened tonight to make me make this thread. 1. deciding to administer a lethal amount of poison and commit whole sale slaughter on a slave revolt got me 50 light side points. 2.Getting a girl to sell her own father out to imperial intelligence by bribing her with her dads money also gained me light side points. dear bioware.... the lesser of two evils is still evil. and please educate your writers as to how the light /dark sides operate. we dont have to mindlessly murder to go dark side taking prisoners for interrogation and entertainment is actually often more dark side.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon- Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) I refused to help a group of deserters get off the planet and leave their brother in arms behind to die. 50 dark side points. Edited January 21, 2012 by Dragoon- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heliotic Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 this moral choice system is just a little bit nuts, im wondering what the most out of whack things you have seen are. for examples the two things that happened tonight to make me make this thread. 1. deciding to administer a lethal amount of poison and commit whole sale slaughter on a slave revolt got me 50 light side points. 2.Getting a girl to sell her own father out to imperial intelligence by bribing her with her dads money also gained me light side points. dear bioware.... the lesser of two evils is still evil. and please educate your writers as to how the light /dark sides operate. we dont have to mindlessly murder to go dark side taking prisoners for interrogation and entertainment is actually often more dark side.... 1. Killing them all painlessly rather than listening to the sith lord and giving them the 'weeks of suffering dose. Yes, that's a light side act. 2. I don't remember that one. Oops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Explosive_Lasers Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Generally speaking, the Dark-Side encompasses the darker choice on a path that you choose. Sometimes, the 'good guy' option is Dark-Side, such as killing the pirate on Ord Mantell, or killing the war criminal on Nar Shadaa, or the OTHER war criminal in the trooper story on Taris. Sometimes, Dark-Side is more neutral, like the option to perform political espionage to prevent a rise in Imperial/Sith support among the Republic. Really, Light- and Dark-Side are relative to the path, and each other. Giving the lethal poison would be merciful, rather than torturing them. Exactly like what you said mere sentences later. An instant death is better than death slowly from a prolonged poison. It also quickens the end of the rebellion, and furthers the soldier's career somewhat. As for bribing the girl, it depends on what her dad did, and what your other options did. If, in a situation, your options are to kill somebody, or force them to turn themselves in, the Light-Side option is clear. It really comes down to perspective. Many times Light-Side and Dark-Side are not good and evil, just like Jedi and Sith are not good or evil or Light or Dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badaya Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I turned in a group of republic deserters to their commanding officer and got 50 dark side points. That one makes no sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Explosive_Lasers Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I turned in a group of republic deserters to their commanding officer and got 50 dark side points. That one makes no sense to me. On Taris, right? Those guys were in a bad situation, and it's (again) a matter of perspective. Of course a civilian would think that letting them go would be the good move. But, a soldier might view their deserting as treason, breaking the law, going back on their word/honor, or abandoning what they signed up for. The trooper might see making them go back as the good guy move, because then they'd be fighting to further the Republic and defend civilians. It's almost always a matter of perspective, and the decisions are oftentimes very tough and close, which serves to make the game more fun and the story more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetroPolice Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 It's funny because its realistic. *serious face* No, i'm quite serious. Look at my serious face. *serious face has been added to your codex* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon- Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) I'm about to return critical medical supplies stolen from a MASH. The medic tells me a soldier just went into shock, he needs them now or the soldier will die. I return the supplies and save the soldier life. 50 dark side points. I know, I'm a really despicable person. Can barely watch myself in the mirror. Edited January 21, 2012 by Dragoon- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qoojo Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 You have to look at them on a relative level, or at least I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshmellowdude Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Yeah the story was written by a bunch of 4th graders pretty much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaeAichi Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I'm about to return critical medical supplies stolen from a MASH. The medic tells me a soldier just went into shock, he needs them now or the soldier will die. I return the supplies and save the soldier life. 50 dark side points. I know, I'm a really despicable person. Can barely watch myself in the mirror. That one, was a needs of the many choice, one trooper, or an unspecified number of refugees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zumbledum Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 1. Killing them all painlessly rather than listening to the sith lord and giving them the 'weeks of suffering dose. Yes, that's a light side act. Now you see i disagree on this one . i think not killing them at all, perhaps taking the poison and throwing it away so no one else could do it might of been light side. killing the guy wanting to do the poisoning and trashing his research.. again maybe light side. but just because the alternative is a slow death that doest make mass murder light side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Explosive_Lasers Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I'm about to return critical medical supplies stolen from a MASH. The medic tells me a soldier just went into shock, he needs them now or the soldier will die. I return the supplies and save the soldier life. 50 dark side points. I know, I'm a really despicable person. Can barely watch myself in the mirror. Again, look at the other option: The refugees needed them. Most non-military personnel would think the good guy would give it to the needy refugees. A trooper, or somebody who's seen combat, would give it to the hurt soldiers putting their lives on the line, in order to defend the refugees. Dark-side=/=Evil Light-side=/=Good It's perspective, views, and a look at the path you choose. No officials said Dark was evil and Light was good. I totally see dealing justice out to war criminals and pirates, in the form of death, is something a hero would do. Others would disagree. (Wait, we are talking about the same quest with the medicine, right? The one on Ord Mantell?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalliah Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 this moral choice system is just a little bit nuts, im wondering what the most out of whack things you have seen are. for examples the two things that happened tonight to make me make this thread. 1. deciding to administer a lethal amount of poison and commit whole sale slaughter on a slave revolt got me 50 light side points. Light and Dark between factions isn't just good or evil in the mega sense but relative to the faction. Someone in another thread explained it better for Empire it's more power/order some compassion vs chaos, no mercy mayham etc. For republic it's more playing with in the realm of sticking to the principles of compassion vs pragmatism and sacrificing one for many as well as order. So with this choice, relative to Empire/Dark Side, those slaves are going to die one way or another. You're choice, do it quick or do it so its long and painful. It's only the 'good' or lighter choice relative to the spectrum of the Empire/Darkside as a whole. A Republic choice in he same situation would be more like, let them die or sabotage it in some way so they don't die. You find the same sort of choices on the Republic side. The best example being is Essles and the choice you have to let the engineers die. It's not necessarily evil per say because you're doing it to save the whole ship. It's a sure thing. Rather then the light choice which is taking a chance to save everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfmiolleh Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) I turned my Morality indicator off so I just make the choices I want without knowing what they will be before I pick them. I always think I'm doing the good thing but I have like 600 DS points. Edited January 21, 2012 by Derfmiolleh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaeAichi Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Again, look at the other option: The refugees needed them. Most non-military personnel would think the good guy would give it to the needy refugees. A trooper, or somebody who's seen combat, would give it to the hurt soldiers putting their lives on the line, in order to defend the refugees. Dark-side=/=Evil Light-side=/=Good It's perspective, views, and a look at the path you choose. No officials said Dark was evil and Light was good. I totally see dealing justice out to war criminals and pirates, in the form of death, is something a hero would do. Others would disagree. (Wait, we are talking about the same quest with the medicine, right? The one on Ord Mantell?) I am yes. and with combat medicine...Your forces, allies, civilians/refugees, enemy prisoners. That's the hirearchy of it or so i was trained. Of course..I'd rather give it to 10 people than to 1 guy that will likely never be able to fight again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon- Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) That one, was a needs of the many choice, one trooper, or an unspecified number of refugees. One man imminent to die, the others suffering but not in a life-threatening condition. In real life you would be charged with manslaughter. Edited January 21, 2012 by Dragoon- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalliah Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Actually a better way to say it is the the light choices in the Empire are really just a bit 'nicer' version of the Dark side. You aren't going to be a goodie two shoes playing Empire. With 'light' side you're just not as bad as bad can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalliah Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Now you see i disagree on this one . i think not killing them at all, perhaps taking the poison and throwing it away so no one else could do it might of been light side. killing the guy wanting to do the poisoning and trashing his research.. again maybe light side. but just because the alternative is a slow death that doest make mass murder light side. Then you shouldn't be playing Empire. Empire is the 'bad' side. You're choices between light and dark are really more between 'not so bad' and 'really bad'. Lots of times even when you let people live you're still destroying their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fronteria Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I got 100 light side points for lying to someone who betrayed me, only so i could get close to him again and kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Explosive_Lasers Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I got 100 light side points for lying to someone who betrayed me, only so i could get close to him again and kill him. ................ I have no response for this..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ki_Draken_Magus Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Dark and Light Side points are not always about good vs. evil. They are more closely attuned to the emotion behind the decision. For example, the mission where you have to poison the slaves. Since you have no contol over their "ultimate fate", do you embrace COMPASSION (which equates to a quick and painless death) or do you embrace SUFFERING (which equates to a slow, lingering, and painful demise). The LIGHT/DARK choices are not always about the MORAL choice, but more often about the emotion behind the choice. Edited January 21, 2012 by Ki_Draken_Magus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fronteria Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Sorry I forgot to mention where it happened. Nar Shaddaa, imperial agent quest line. Watcher X escapes and you lie over the holocall, so you can meet up with him at the spaceport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zumbledum Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 Dark and Light Side points are not always about good vs. evil. They are more closely attuned to the emotion behind the decision. For example, the mission where you have to poison the slaves. Since you have no contol over their "ultimate fate", do you embrace COMPASSION (which equates to a quick and painless death) or do you embrace SUFFERING (which equates to a slow, lingering, and painful demise). The LIGHT/DARK choices are not always about the MORAL choice, but more often about the emotion behind the choice. well really this is my biggest problem with the whole set up , if this is how it is then it shouldn't be a tool to align you with light or dark side because as has been pointed out its a good vs evil check (within the confines of the limited options presented) rather than the forces light and dark sides. But sith corruption comes about from it. various light sabres lock out because of it , the game is clearly defining as you alignment to the force light or dark side. yet as everyone is agreeing these are not the choices or options allowed. it just doesnt scan either its as we agree a system that measures your alignment within the faction and the options it allows , which is fine but that means it cant be light/dark side alignment which is what the game uses it for. or its a light/dark side choice which it isnt because for one its more often than not a basic good vs evil morality choice rather than light/dark side principles and secondly well it just clearly isnt that choice to start with (ie masacring slaves is always dark side) and the game doesnt allow you to make the light side choice like killing the poisoner and burning his work down. which a loyal Imperial could do and still be on that side he just doesnt agree with that way of fighting . the options are dark and darker not light and dark , hence this cant be light/dark side choice . basically it contradicts itself and makes a mess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annedromeda Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Yeah the story was written by a bunch of 4th graders pretty much. That must be why I'm having so much fun killing everyone and feeling no guilt for it!! Thanks 4th graders =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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