Why is Watchman so good in PvP?

[AASmirnov]

Sorry for opening a thread like this again, but it have been bugging me for quite some time. As far as I see, Watchman is a DoT tree. And DoTs are weaker in PvP due to presence of healers, so often mentioned 300K damage can be poured into one character and be not enough to kill him, if he's getting heals. Why is then Watchman considered superior to Combat in PvP? Is Merciless Slash that good?

[Sikkyu]

No idea, they do good damage and zen healing you is pretty good.

 

Its all about play style. the roots and raw single target dps of combat is good, but its not what I play like.

 

Watchmen doesn't appeal to me either, Its defiantly good for dps in operations.

 

The reason I like focus is mobility and aoe destruction. Transcendence helps out the team by being faster.

 

I mostly see watchmen speced sents and some of them are very good. But I also believe that each tree can be extremely deadly. They just play so differently.

 

 

One other thing I want to add is in focus spec, I have -30% aoe damage reduction and -7% damage reduction. I have main tanked flashpoints.... (not hard modes) But I can face tank a boss if need be fore quite a bit if I save my defensive abilities.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Sikkyu

[DoomedtoDie]

It's because 1v1 it's the strongest spec, the self heal is great, dots work well in 1v1, lower interrupt CD and insane fast centering build up.

 

If you plan on actually killing things though combat is the way forward, just don't leave home without that pocket healer and guardbot.

[Apocalypse-]

It's because 1v1 it's the strongest spec, the self heal is great, dots work well in 1v1, lower interrupt CD and insane fast centering build up.

 

If you plan on actually killing things though combat is the way forward, just don't leave home without that pocket healer and guardbot.

 

A guardbot better served guarding the healer and a healer better served healing someone other than DPS. Watchman shrugs off incidental damage from most AoEs. Our DPS doesn't drop to zero when stunned. Actually killing things we do it just as fast as Combat. The only thing Combat is better at than Watchman is CC with the two roots. It SHOULD do more burst damage than Watchman logically, but it just doesn't.

[Cinemayor]

I've found that there are a few reasons I seem to do better with Watchman:

 

1. More focus, faster centring, excellent Zen effect.

2. DoT's prevent opponent's re-stealthing and burn while you channel stasis.

3. Reduced cd on leap and kick is excellent.

4. Merciless Slash hits like a truck, especially once you've built 5 stacks of Juyo.

5. DoT's are elemental damage.

6. Self healing might be minor, but it's a nice side-effect.

7. Cauterise slowing opponents down (when talented) in addition to all the good burny stuff.

 

Things I miss from other specs:

 

1. Root effect from Crippling Throw (Combat).

2. CC break from Force Camo (Combat).

3. Precision Slash (Combat).

4. Faster base movement speed (Combat - Ataru form bonus).

5. Zealous Leap (Focus).

6. FORCE BOMBING! (Focus - build stacks of Singularity then Force Sweep = BOOM).

[Toppins]

More survivability.

 

That's kind of a good thing in PvP.

 

Force Fade + Focused Pursuit are so awesome; when you chain GbtF + Force Camo + Transcendance, you are invulnerable for 9 seconds while moving at 180% movement speed... lol.

 

I don't think my guild would let me spec out of Focused Pursuit now that they've gotten used to it

[antoniaa]

hi there,

am i the only one enjoying an endless transcendence in focus tree while we are in

teamfights ?

 

~Sara

[Rankith]

hi there,

am i the only one enjoying an endless transcendence in focus tree while we are in

teamfights ?

 

~Sara

 

Thats a big plus for focus. However, watchman can have transendance up nearly constantly also. And its an even bigger speed boost.

[Ibuki]

I prefer combat in pvp.

 

You have two roots, one additional snare/root breaker, 15% increased runspeed, and you deal the damage extremely fast and bursty. It's fun to play.

[Notensack]

What I've seen is that it performs well in consideration of the under performance of the players around you. The 4 pugs, their slow reaction time, their inability to do any sort of significant damage, or get on the same target. However, I've made 400-500k BM Watchmen fail to break 150k under the pressure of my melee train. This, while me and my shadow have yet to obtain even champion main hands.

 

To answer the question more bluntly, it's enhanced by incompetence.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Notensack

[RamzaBehoulve]

A guardbot better served guarding the healer and a healer better served healing someone other than DPS. Watchman shrugs off incidental damage from most AoEs. Our DPS doesn't drop to zero when stunned. Actually killing things we do it just as fast as Combat. The only thing Combat is better at than Watchman is CC with the two roots. It SHOULD do more burst damage than Watchman logically, but it just doesn't.

 

Yes, it does.

 

6s is a long time in PvP, any competent healer can cast at least 3 heals during that time. Combat can do 4.5k guaranteed in 2 attacks. That is the difference between a dead target and one living.

 

Watchman might be better when running around alone, but if you are in a group and are the one targeting their healers, you must burst at critical times, not do a Merciless and prey your burns were put at the right time to tick at the same time for that magic killing burst.

 

Watchman is good, it's probably the best for solo queue without healers around, but as soon as the teams are just a little organized, you need Combat or Focus to be at your best.

Edited January 21, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[Yargok]

And guess what watchman can do in those 6 seconds? Interupt 3 heals with kicks, leap and stasis, hell another kick if need be.

[RamzaBehoulve]

And guess what watchman can do in those 6 seconds? Interupt 3 heals with kicks, leap and stasis, hell another kick if need be.

 

Laugh, interrupts are a joke in this game.

[Yargok]

I guess that's why you have no clue about how pvp works.

[RamzaBehoulve]

I guess that's why you have no clue about how pvp works.

 

More like you are the one who never fought a competent healer.

 

You Watchman lovers are absolutely disgusting with your propaganda.

 

Not only you give exaggerated information about its usefulness, but you also completely omit to mention to the beginners it's the hardest tree to manage, sending them to their doom.

Edited January 21, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[Yargok]

Whatever makes your ego happy, sir-no-need-to-interupt.

 

Who cares if it's hard. Just means it's more rewarding. And none of the trees is "hard" to play. Hell, just spam a few buttons and damage flies.

 

Now if you want to have easy time - go play focus. Stomp stomp and numbers fly. Watchman is just more effective.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Yargok

[RamzaBehoulve]

Whatever makes your ego happy, sir-no-need-to-interupt.

 

Where did I say we didn't need to interrupt? I said they were a joke implying you shouldn't use them as an argument. Besides Combat also has Force Kick and Stasis. And if you want to add another one, everyone has Awe. Still not going to help much against a competent healer cycling his heals correctly.

 

Maybe the day the whole healing school is locked for 4s, we'll talk about interrupts being actually really useful.

Edited January 21, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[Yargok]

Joke is a great argument.

 

But do please go on. Make a video showing everything as well. I really don't care. I'm happy playing my game.

[Nostiator]

Laugh, interrupts are a joke in this game.

 

+1 Rep

[Xerain]

Yes, it does.

 

6s is a long time in PvP, any competent healer can cast at least 3 heals during that time. Combat can do 4.5k guaranteed in 2 attacks. That is the difference between a dead target and one living.

 

Watchman might be better when running around alone, but if you are in a group and are the one targeting their healers, you must burst at critical times, not do a Merciless and prey your burns were put at the right time to tick at the same time for that magic killing burst.

 

Watchman is good, it's probably the best for solo queue without healers around, but as soon as the teams are just a little organized, you need Combat or Focus to be at your best.

 

 

I played combat/carnage all through beta and the spec was amazing up untill a lot of changes came to it. I continued to play it after these changes and the tree has just lacked so much since. Leveled to 50 before and after the changes to the combat/carnage tree and took them to both full pvp gear in beta.

 

That being said.

 

Come live i decided to go annihilation/watchmen. Carnage/Combat doesn't compete to the tree. Annihilate/MerciSlash hits just as hard normally as your force scream/bladestorm does with precision strike/gore up. I can consistently kick heals, generate far more zen/fury, use my leap from 0-30m, use my leap every 12 seconds, use my leap as a heal kick if need be.

 

Combat/Carnage can't do any of this. the 1 second 1 point cost massacre/blade rush is nice but when a healer is healing through your sub par damage what you going to do? Oh wait nothing.

[TheOfficialGOAT]

More like you are the one who never fought a competent healer.

 

You Watchman lovers are absolutely disgusting with your propaganda.

 

Not only you give exaggerated information about its usefulness, but you also completely omit to mention to the beginners it's the hardest tree to manage, sending them to their doom.

 

Disgusting with the propaganda? Really, what propaganda are you talking about? The ability to heal the entire party 10%, the interrupts, the massive bursts of damage, the sustained damage (yes it has both), camo being 100% damage reduction, and to top that off not all of the Watchmen Tree skills are working like they are suppose to so the DoTs that crit will be gaining an extra 30% damage increase!! Most Sentinels that I see that put up 400k damage are Watchmen and along with that damage are getting over 75k healed.

 

I didn't like the looks of the spec didn't think I would like the playstyle either. I was to the point with the class that I didn't want to play it anymore until I tried Watchmen. Not sure why you are hating on a spec that really does awesome damage/heals/interrupts. I understand that not everyone will like it but that is no reason to down it.

 

I agree that it is the hardest tree to manage but that doesn't mean it is a bad thing. Just means it takes more skill to play. What I mean by skill is you must know the rotation and the abilities very well so you can adjust to any situation.

[Toppins]

I played combat/carnage all through beta and the spec was amazing up untill a lot of changes came to it. I continued to play it after these changes and the tree has just lacked so much since. Leveled to 50 before and after the changes to the combat/carnage tree and took them to both full pvp gear in beta.

 

That being said.

 

Come live i decided to go annihilation/watchmen. Carnage/Combat doesn't compete to the tree. Annihilate/MerciSlash hits just as hard normally as your force scream/bladestorm does with precision strike/gore up. I can consistently kick heals, generate far more zen/fury, use my leap from 0-30m, use my leap every 12 seconds, use my leap as a heal kick if need be.

 

Combat/Carnage can't do any of this. the 1 second 1 point cost massacre/blade rush is nice but when a healer is healing through your sub par damage what you going to do? Oh wait nothing.

 

This guy gets it. He just forgot to mention the horribly overpowered +80% Transcendence in Watchman that you simply must enjoy before they nerf it.

[RamzaBehoulve]

I didn't like the looks of the spec didn't think I would like the playstyle either. I was to the point with the class that I didn't want to play it anymore until I tried Watchmen. Not sure why you are hating on a spec that really does awesome damage/heals/interrupts. I understand that not everyone will like it but that is no reason to down it.

.

 

I'm not hating on Watchman, I play it sometimes as well for a change of pace.

 

What I dislike is the fact almost every freaking Watchman lover has to come out and spread how much better Watchman is, trying to turn every Sentinel into clones of each other over perceived uberness that is simply not as good as they think it is.

 

It's fine to immensely enjoy a tree, it's another to spit on the rest and declare one the best based on what you feel instead of hard facts which we don't have, sadly.

 

What's for for certain is that Watchman beats Focus and Combat in PvE steady DPS by a small margin. This is intended, it's clearly the boss fight tree. That is the only thing we can currently get accurate data on. Everything else is up on the air based on feelings.

Edited January 22, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[Dalnar]

Its not that combat is bad, its just watchman has better mechanics for pvp. Combat is full of procs that lasts 6s or so, pvp is full of stuns, snares, and cc in general, which interupt your rotations and thus procs very often.

 

The best solution for combat imho, would be double the duration of procs, but cap their use in the process, similar to zen.

 

Nothing more frustration to use precision strike and then eat knockback or something and missing the proc.

[Acharial]

Its not that combat is bad, its just watchman has better mechanics for pvp. Combat is full of procs that lasts 6s or so, pvp is full of stuns, snares, and cc in general, which interupt your rotations and thus procs very often.

 

The best solution for combat imho, would be double the duration of procs, but cap their use in the process, similar to zen.

 

Nothing more frustration to use precision strike and then eat knockback or something and missing the proc.

 

You neglect the fact that combat has ranged immobilize and you cannot get kited in any way. The procs are not so horrible, since blade rush always procs an ataru form and the proc chance after a blade rush is 50%. That means also that you have 100% crit buff for Blade storm up at all times. It's not really low chance of procs so that's not the problem at all. In group situations combat is so much better in PvP where you actually can burst down healers fast.

 

The only thing Watchmen really has to offer that is really fantastic is the transendence buff. In 1v1 Watchmen might be better too for the minor self healing, but overall It's a very slow spec without much burst, and keeping up merciless strike buff so you can use it more often is not really easy in PvP.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Acharial