Eszi Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 we discovered that the Open World PvP area on Ilum was not working as our PvP design team intended Nice discovery! I bet it took you a LOT of time, next time just read the forums. New community blog comming soon, featuring: After careful analysis, we are suspecting that framerate can go down a bit if more then 5 players are on the screen Macros - to implement, or not to implement - that is the question Long loading times - a fact or a myth? High-res textures - do we really need them, when we can add moar bloom to distract you? ("Wait, these are not the textur....OMG SHINY!") CC - Is being able to walk overrated? Instancing - People are bad for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokiliesmith Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 INB4 broken mechanic, not intended, abuse. <---we get that, but it's not players fault, those situations were created by Bioware. That does not and should not matter. If you walk into a bank and a teller starts handing you money, you can, will and should be arrested for walking out with it. If someone leaves their car on the street with the doors wide open and the engine running you can, will and should be arrested for driving off with it. I don't know about your server but it was pretty openly discussed in general chat on Hedarr Soong that this was obviously not working as intended. Several people expressed that they didn't care because it was Bioware's fault and so they went ahead exploiting the flaws. Now they will have to deal with the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gankatron Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) That does not and should not matter. If you walk into a bank and a teller starts handing you money, you can, will and should be arrested for walking out with it. If someone leaves their car on the street with the doors wide open and the engine running you can, will and should be arrested for driving off with it. I don't know about your server but it was pretty openly discussed in general chat on Hedarr Soong that this was obviously not working as intended. Several people expressed that they didn't care because it was Bioware's fault and so they went ahead exploiting the flaws. Now they will have to deal with the consequences. Realize that you are creating a strawman argument over this issue if my personal experience during that day is representative of everyone else's. I gained 2 valor levels over 3-4 hours of open world PvP'ing. Is that not what BioWare intended for Ilum, how was I to know? Although it seemed generous, it didn't feel exploitive. Perhaps your analogy would be more suitably expressed as I walked into a bank and the teller said here is a new toaster for retaining an account with us, and then later finding out that they made a mistake and my account wasn’t eligible for that perk. In either case, whether it be a toaster or valor, yes, I am fully comfortable for them to take it back even though it was their organizational error that brought it about in the first place. Edited January 21, 2012 by gankatron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnuffMuffin Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 @gankatron I'm pretty sure that if you didn't actually make it to within AOE spamming of the rez/spawn point (and subsequently spent the next ten hours insta-ganking repubs the moment they arrived) then you're not going to be unfairly punished. Maybe lose a bit of that easy valor, but nothing more. I doubt anyone is raging against folks who gained a level or two while engaging in what could be honestly assumed to be "operating as expected" mechanics. Given the level of detail that BioWare logs events at, it's very likely that they'll be able to precisely target the individuals who were obviously taking advantage of exploitable mechanics. If, however, you do end up feeling that you've been penalized unfairly, I hope that you open a CS ticket with the same calm and well stated position you've taken here. Love the handle, BTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrechor Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 No mass rollback but targeting the worst offenders? I can live with that. Also nice to see some communication on the issue. Much better Bioware, keep it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkeBohm Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Why should people be punished for Bioware making the design of Ilum so easily exploitable. If anything the exploiters should be given a reward for showing Bioware their massive mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunpilot Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 ok i don't see why this is such a big issue. why not punish people for making premade warzones? that is way more unballanced than some people ganging up on some poor saps on illum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkeBohm Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 This is just Bioware showing how mad they are and they don't want to be made fools out of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CortneyF Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 There was no mention of Ilum still being a giant void of fun and innovative PvP. I really hope they do a total revamp of the objectives for that zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisArmstrong Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 To everyone: NO MORE BANK ANALOGIES!!!! I'm starting to suspect there is some plot to confuse me out there, 3 of you just responded to my same post with a bank analogy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkeBohm Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 One more thing that Bioware has yet to mention, is that there are speeders in the base, and they could have easily just driven out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisArmstrong Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Why should people be punished for Bioware making the design of Ilum so easily exploitable. If anything the exploiters should be given a reward for showing Bioware their massive mistake. This is a true statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillerGrooves Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) So to the people saying it's BioWare's fault for not realizing an unintended opportunity to exploit existed, let me put this situation in a different context. So, if you leave your door unlocked, that gives another person the right to walk into your house and take your things without punishment? After all, you left your door unlocked. So they should get to keep the things they obtained while exploiting a mistake on your part. If a store has merchandise out where you can take it and walk out without paying, that makes it okay? You don't have the self-control to not do something you're not supposed to? So you shouldn't be punished for doing something you had an opportunity to do? This situation is no different. No, I'm not saying it's stealing. No, it isn't apples and oranges. The point is valid. These players did something they weren't intended to be allowed to do and from the sound of it was obviously unfair to anyone with common sense or decency or fairness. So, BioWare has every right to punish people for exploiting something in a game that they wasn't supposed to be. It is their game. They have the right to reasonably do whatever they wish to it. If you quit over their response to the situation, then I don't want you as a neighbor because you're the person who would walk into my house and take my things. Why do you all feel so entitled to something you didn't earn just because you found a loophole in the programming. Just because I'm able to kill someone doesn't mean I'm allowed. Edited January 21, 2012 by KillerGrooves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtongwa Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Actually... re-subbed. Look this was far from a perfect response. FAR. Next time, immediate action please. Tracking people down and deciding on appropriate reactions won't be easy. but I'm willing to take them at their word that they'll make some effort, which really is all that's possible at this point. And the prominence they are now giving the issue suggests to me that they get the seriousness, even if belatedly. Plus, honestly, I want to enjoy this game. So you got my sub back. But watch your ****. Listen to your community and test your patches. Also, you should seriously think about the composition of your team. This mistake should never have gone live, and once that mistake was made, it should have been immediately corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slightlycampana Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Wow, there have been "OMG Bioware isn't listening to us" posts all over the forum and all this "They're not addressing our issues!" rubbish, and now there is a blog out saying exactly what will be done and why, and... people still complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkeBohm Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 So to the people saying it's BioWare's fault for not realizing an unintended opportunity to exploit existed, let me put this situation in a different context. So, if you leave your door unlocked, that gives another person the right to walk into your house and take your things without punishment? After all, you left your door unlocked. So they should get to keep the things they obtained while exploiting a mistake on your part. If a store has merchandise out where you can take it and walk out without paying, that makes it okay? You don't have the self-control to not do something you're not supposed to? So you shouldn't be punished for doing something you had an opportunity to do? This situation is no different. No, I'm not saying it's stealing. No, it isn't apples and oranges. The point is valid. These players did something they weren't intended to be allowed to do and from the sound of it was obviously unfair to anyone with common sense or decency or fairness. So, BioWare has every right to punish people for exploiting something in a game that they wasn't supposed to be. It is their game. They have the right to reasonably do whatever they wish to it. If you quit over their response to the situation, then I don't want you as a neighbor because you're the person who would walk into my house and take my things. Why do you all feel so entitled to something you didn't earn just because you found a loophole in the programming. Just because I'm able to kill someone doesn't mean I can. Let me put this in a different context. In actual warfare, camping is something that happens. One major battle comes to mind of a bunch of people camping a smaller force. The Battle of the Alamo. So before you talk about stealing make sure your examples make sense. kthnxbye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gankatron Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) @gankatron I'm pretty sure that if you didn't actually make it to within AOE spamming of the rez/spawn point (and subsequently spent the next ten hours insta-ganking repubs the moment they arrived) then you're not going to be unfairly punished. Maybe lose a bit of that easy valor, but nothing more. I doubt anyone is raging against folks who gained a level or two while engaging in what could be honestly assumed to be "operating as expected" mechanics. Given the level of detail that BioWare logs events at, it's very likely that they'll be able to precisely target the individuals who were obviously taking advantage of exploitable mechanics. If, however, you do end up feeling that you've been penalized unfairly, I hope that you open a CS ticket with the same calm and well stated position you've taken here. Love the handle, BTW Thanks, maybe not consistent with the SW lore, but that is my handle for every MMO I have played! Perhaps the fact that I am unsure what the actual exploit was, makes it likely that I wasn't knowingly participating in it? By reading the blog it sounds like "large groups of players began capturing the Ilum control points, then 'camping' at the enemy's base" was the exploitive action? What I have trouble reconciling is that the system seems to be designed around rewarding controlling objective points, and yet has no mechanism to control population imbalances as is adjusted in instanced warzones. I post in Keen’s blog with some regularity, and this was fully anticipated prior to launch. BioWare shouldn’t blame people for zerg controlling of objective points while simultaneously rewarding them for doing so and making no effort to balance faction numbers. Edited January 21, 2012 by gankatron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geawiel Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Good News. I did my dailie the day that it was changed. But when I got there peopel just started killing the turret after that I left cause I got my daily complete Anyways, good news is going on here . Now people can see that they just have need of a little patience and everything works out ^^. I pretty well did this on the Sith side. I stuck around and did some healing for about 45 mins but, I got very bored when the battle was one sided and fleet passed then logged to a lowbie. I did get 2 ranks of valor in that time to be honest and, you'll hear no complaints on my end if that is rolled back. I overall love the game and, as someone else mentioned, haven't had issues with people in game. The forums are full of town criers shouting at the top of their internet lungs at the first little sign of anything for the most part. People seem to forget that the game hasn't been out long (something that probably isn't helped by the beta weekends.) I'm only really disappointed in some of the PvP aspects, especially since Mythic have had a good portion of control for it. Then again, Warhammer comes to mind and I can kind of see it. Either way, non diminishing returns seems like something that would stick out like a sore thumb before it went live... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gankatron Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 ok i don't see why this is such a big issue. why not punish people for making premade warzones? that is way more unballanced than some people ganging up on some poor saps on illum. QFT! They need a truly randomized, I feel cross-server (to avoid pulling too many people out of other internal server warzone queues), PUG specific warzone queue to maintain balance, but pre-made farming of PUG's isn't considered exploitive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarogan Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 So glad that they have precise and detailed logs about this, yet, when I downed the world boss Snowblind with an ops group and didn't get credit all they can tell me is sorry we can't verify this. As much as I love this game and playing, myself and I'm sure many others are started to get tired of the constant small issues here and there and everywhere. Many of these issues seem to be due to a lack of thought. I.E. How does world PVP in ILUM work on a server with a much larger Republic or Imperial population? Why are the different bases in Ilum quests? Quest implies reward and while there may be a reward for controlling all of them (in the form of additional valor) there is no way to complete these quests. They always pop up and take up a bunch of slots in my quest log. I would be ever so happy if you guys decided to hire more people to your QA and bug fixing teams to take care of the problems that are slowly eroding my sheer joy at playing this extremely fun MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnuffMuffin Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 @ LouisArmstrong Well I used a wallet analogy... Does that count? Look, what you are experiencing is a series of near identical analogies that are based on "how you are expected to behave in a civilized society". You are absolutely entitled to choose to disregard those expectations and do whatever the hell you want. But don't expect to be rewarded/accepted/respected for those decisions. It ain't gonna happen. If you choose to do things that others regard as unacceptable *social* behavior then you must accept the inevitable consequence of being unwelcome as a member of civilized society. You are *not* entitled to be a jerk. You are *not* entitled to be rewarded for taking advantage of an exploit that others chose to disregard as an error by the developers. You don't get a "get out of jail free" card by choosing to avoid taking responsibility for your actions. Proclaiming innocence after admitting culpability falls on deaf ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkeBohm Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 @ LouisArmstrong Well I used a wallet analogy... Does that count? Look, what you are experiencing is a series of near identical analogies that are based on "how you are expected to behave in a civilized society". You are absolutely entitled to choose to disregard those expectations and do whatever the hell you want. But don't expect to be rewarded/accepted/respected for those decisions. It ain't gonna happen. If you choose to do things that others regard as unacceptable *social* behavior then you must accept the inevitable consequence of being unwelcome as a member of civilized society. You are *not* entitled to be a jerk. You are *not* entitled to be rewarded for taking advantage of an exploit that others chose to disregard as an error by the developers. You don't get a "get out of jail free" card by choosing to avoid taking responsibility for your actions. Proclaiming innocence after admitting culpability falls on deaf ears. First off. This isn't twitter. So no @ signing. Its just stupid. Secondly, my example was about The Alamo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucasomega Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 What a joke. You guys have no respect for your customers. You only penalize, instead of taking responsibility for your actions. They only played this way because you broke the game and made it that way. You repeatedly make me sick by saying how you are going to 'take action' against the players. I am not saying that the Valor shouldn't be removed, but leave it at that. You guys are the ones who messed up in the first place, so stop screwing over your profit margin. Show a little respect when you talk to us, some of the things you say are just shocking coming from a company who wants us as customers. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Some of the crap customers say is shocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagnusLL Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I'm astounded at how many people just take their word at face value and no one even suspects that they will just get a small bunch of the worst offenders, slap them with some kind of penalty, and then come back here claiming they got "if not all, most of those who unfairly exploited Ilum" while 99.99% of the exploiters will still be roaming free with their insta-battlemaster status. Once I start seeing *HUNDREDS* of QQ threads about unfair valor rollbacks, I *might* start believing it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkeBohm Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Some of the crap customers say is shocking. We pay them. We are allowed to talk to them how we want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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