TollShaddar Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Sorry BioWare, but coming from someone who knows a thing or two about games, and didn't exploit the Valor bugs at all, as I don't have a high enough character to; You can't ban or suspend ANYONE who abused the BLATANT error that YOUR company is responsible for. "We have postponed the patch until the 18th due to exploits that were found and brought to our attention by players." Remember posting that? Remember what happened next? You guys put the exploits in anyway. So yeah. Roll their valor back, take away any PvP gear they earned from said valor increases, and that's it. Take the self-inflicted gunshot wound you all gave yourselves and move on. Just pray you didn't lose too many customers because of how horrible this launch has been. Three years of production and we get this PoS that looks like it was put together in 3 months. No account actions, only rollbacks. And yes, once again, this is from someone that didn't benefit (exploit) the bug that BIOWARE chose to push live. Well said. That is exactly my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwintox Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Just pray you didn't lose too many customers because of how horrible this launch has been. Three years of production and we get this PoS that looks like it was put together in 3 months. Come on, don't be to harsh on Bioware. Sure the game has problems, sure the launch was rather crappy. But to say that it's a PoS game that looks like 3 months of work is just absurd. The game itself is very well made, top of the class and what other MMORPG can you name that has integrated quest cinematics throughout the game? All MMORPG's ( and games for that matter ) have problems at start, now more then ever since engines keep getting more complexed every year. I understand your frustration, I share that frustration.. but I was also pissed of about the lack of features and increasing amount of game breaking bugs when WoW was just released. And look at me now, I've been playing ( and enjoying ) that game for 6 years, a little patience doesn't hurt! SWTOR is trying.. don't discredit the game just yet. I just sincerely hope EA manages to pursuit the same level of quality and custemor support Blizzard has developed in all these years.. that´s what i´m worried about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JByers Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I like this, death to campers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calexus Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Didnt ntake part in any of it either and im imperial - Nice to see bioware pulling their finger out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
channmann Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 for you guys crying did you even read the rules people knew it was a bug and did it anyway 17.Exploit any bug in the Service to gain unfair advantage in the game and/or communicate the existence of any such bug (either directly or through the public posting) to any other user of the Service. taken right off the site maybe if you took the time to read the rules you would know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whosthetank Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Let's see what things I said were stupid. People stealing items from a store. banks giving people money. Burglary. All stupid that make no sense for this argument. Sorry you don't see that. Someone is feeling major butt pain because his valor is getting rolled back QQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chekreg Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I'm not sure what server this whole big deal happened on, but on my server, Imps outnumber Reps 2-1. Grats to the design team for actually implementing PVP in a PVP zone, instead of just blowing up walkers all day. But my qualm is this...it's a war, on a galactic level. Since when has war ever been civil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whosthetank Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I'm not sure what server this whole big deal happened on, but on my server, Imps outnumber Reps 2-1. Grats to the design team for actually implementing PVP in a PVP zone, instead of just blowing up walkers all day. But my qualm is this...it's a war, on a galactic level. Since when has war ever been civil? Well, they could just lower the amount of valor you get for kills in ilum to 10 pr kill, and remove the turret, but whould that be fun for the republics getting camped all day long? The ideal situation atm whould be lowering valor gained, if the rep / imp ratio was 1 : 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onager Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) So in an ideal world this is what's going to happen... SCRIPT - Check player data logs Total Valor Reduction = 0 --- for the period of time during which exploiting was possible check player events... ------ If the Player gained valor --------- And was within a fixed distance of opposition spawn point ------------ Add awarded valor to "Total Valor Reduction" Reduce Valor by "Total Valor Reduction" amount If amount of valor gained was above "X" then... --- Apply 24 hour ban-hammer If amount of valor gained was above "X" + "Y" and the total number of offenders is small then... --- Manually review player inventory and remove any awards/gear that are inappropriate But if there were a LOT of offenders... --- Write another script that can figure out what stuff was ill-gotten and wipe it This won't happen overnight. It might even take many weeks before these consequences are felt. That's because the scripts will need to be written, reviewed, tested, test run on the ENTIRE database for that period for EVERY server, the results of the test run scrutinized, authorization to take action based on those results approved, and then finally enacted. And even then, there will likely be some unfairly penalized players who will make polite requests for CS to review their cases, and where those players state their case calmly and rationally, it's likely that CS will actually pay attention to them. At any rate, that's how I'd handle it. For those folks out there who are whinging that it's BioWare's fault that the mechanics allowed them to take advantage of what was clearly NOT an intended mechanic, let me sum this up as an ethical situation in more concrete RL terms... If you were to discover that typing a special code into the keypad of a bank machine would dispense twenty dollars every time you enter it, would you do so? Would you do so KNOWING that a camera is recording you every time you do it? Would you do so if you had to insert you bank card (thus identifying yourself, with those photos of you confirming your actions)? Would you try to convince the police officers who would then come to your house that it's the bank's fault for letting you take that money from them? That you *deserved* to keep the money because you'd put in the time to acquire it? Get real. Spawn camping for valor farming is, in my mind, clearly an exploit, and a rather egregious one given that there were actual human victims who were unable to extricate themselves from the area without abandoning their characters until the situation could be brought under control. Saying "They should have shut down the servers/applied a patch/whatever vague assertion attempting to make the developer culpable" is a statement made from ignorance regarding the complexity of the server system and the fact that the MAJORITY of players were entirely unaffected - yes, folks, in reality the population of level 50 hardcore PvPers is pretty tiny compared to the vast majority of folks who are casually crawling their way to endgame. And by the way, it still doesn't justify patently unethical activities. So, for everyone who's going to see that big-chunk-o-valor vanish "real soon now", just suck it up. You'll still be able to brag to the newbies in a few years that you were there when the Valor-Vending-Machine incident happened, and maybe you'll have the screenshots to prove it. Meanwhile, let's cut the developers some slack - I lived through WoW from launch, and it was a much bumpier ride than this has been. Making this post orange so people have to read it. Edited January 21, 2012 by Onager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacario Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 "We found out that PvP in ilum wasnt working as intended?" Still isnt. And the new invisible wall of doom (where u get instantly killed when entering rep base) is just a huge setback. I just dont get how they can fail so much at this open laggy wpvp zone. What else is there to do, o just stand at the fleets doing nothing. All I do these days is just log on for some dailies and then I log off again. GW2 next! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilirubin Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Just wondering where the line is between unreasonable and reasonable exploitation of an issue like valor being awarded at a greater rate than intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xlastlnlinex Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Seem's like there are a bunch of cry babies out there, from what I saw Illum ran like a wartorn planet should have ran when one side is terrible and the other isn't, just because you and ur guild/op are scrubs can't can't retake Illum it's not Bioware's fault it's yours. But yes the Valor thing is pretty bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwasted Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Exactly what I wanted to see, thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfrio Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 exactly what i wanted to hear. theyre trying to be as fair and reasonable as possible. GJ BW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithtobeJedi Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Yeah pretty amazing stuff, I am just sad that after all those thousands and thousands of posts and hundred page threads crying about Illum and asking for things to be done that this thread only has about 29 pages when a solution was given Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinard Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I LOVE how your team is managing this game. Careful thought and fairness - and hopefully you can remove those valor points earned inappropriately. Thanks for a wonderful game experience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediGuru Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) So when are we going to get away from this awful faction based pvp and start forcing teams that are MIXED republic and empire. Get rid of this stupid empire vs republic crap, it was nice in theory and thats where it should have stayed and died. It has no place in a game unless you want tons of people quitting and complaining. Take the open world pvp section of ilum and make it into a wz like area, Side A and Side B. then divide up the people in 25man groups or wtfe # you think is appropriate and let people fight. No premades, no guild alliances, no more bs, just fighting, you either fight for your side and kill the other people, take objectives or lose. No more poplulation difference advantage, no more base/objective camping, less complaint threads to read. Why has this not happened yet? THAT IS ALL YOU NEED TO DO! Edited January 22, 2012 by Paralassa content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajamison Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Guys and gals grow up and realize that in the end and the grand scheme of things this is just a game! Getting all bent out of shape and complaining non-stop is achieving nothing. I do not agree with the people who claim no action should be taken but I also agree that this is a game after all just take things in stride and do not endanger your health by stressing over a game! Is it unfair what happened ? Sure! Is it worth repeatedly harping over ? No! And do not try to say the reason for the back lash is the severity of the issue, because you know that even if they did not make this mistake most of the people complaining would find some other issue with the game to complain about. My Philosophy, if you see a glitch, bug or imbalance send a bug report then carry on with your life and stop stressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scan Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) All i see is the shifting of the burden of blame. They set up a game and one side does something that unbalances the gameplay, the answer is to quickly bring the fix. The thing not to do is blame and punish those playing the game. Sure take away the gains (if you think thats going to be a problem, i personally dont) but dont punish those players fopr playing your game, even if they were doing things you did not intend (especially when you were warned it would happen anyway!) Think about this, what if the devs KNEW this would happen and pushed the changes through anyway, is the playerbase STILL to blame? Edited January 21, 2012 by Scan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkeBohm Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I LOVE how your team is managing this game. Careful thought and fairness - and hopefully you can remove those valor points earned inappropriately. Thanks for a wonderful game experience! Were not earned inappropriately. They killed people on a PvP planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pridain Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The only ones in this forum that are whining are the guilty ones. I hope all of you that exploited for you're own selfish gain have your characters deleted. Then rage quit, and go back to WoW. Then us people with ethics can play on in peace. Good riddance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scan Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The only ones in this forum that are whining are the guilty ones. I hope all of you that exploited for you're own selfish gain have your characters deleted. Then rage quit, and go back to WoW. Then us people with ethics can play on in peace. Good riddance. I would turn this around, the only ones crying for punishments to be dished out are those that feel they got "exploited". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KindBudhArsh Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) So when are we going to get away from this awful faction based pvp and start forcing teams that are MIXED republic and empire. Get rid of this stupid empire vs republic crap, it was nice in theory and thats where it should have stayed and died. It has no place in a game unless you want tons of people quitting and complaining. Take the open world pvp section of ilum and make it into a wz like area, Side A and Side B. then divide up the people in 25man groups or wtfe # you think is appropriate and let people fight. No premades, no guild alliances, no more bs, just fighting, you either fight for your side and kill the other people, take objectives or lose. No more poplulation difference advantage, no more base/objective camping, less complaint threads to read. Why has this not happened yet? THAT IS ALL YOU NEED TO DO! 2 teams each being mixed Rep and Emp??? Your contradicting yourself too btw. Whats the difference of side A side B, between faction Republic faction Empire? Its the same thing instead with Republic Vs Empire makes more sense, it gives ppl reason to why they are fighting for there side. Who cares about pop imbalances it makes sense, Empire came in the masses to take out the Rep, its not like it will always be imbalanced the whole games life span. If u dont like the imbalances right now this very time in moment... SWITCH FACTIONS! Trying to have your cake and eat it too doesnt help ur cause. Edited January 22, 2012 by Paralassa content quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicain Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The fact you get insta killed when you enter a base is not a good resolution. It opens the tactic where you can get pulled into the base and killed instantly by the opposing side. This is less PVP and more a griefing tactic. The soultion would have been more large guns inside the base, which are just mobs so you could have cut and pasted more of them. Maybe some level 50 Elites at the taxi station would have been sufficent. You're development team needs someone with actual good ideas and not idea's to 'fix' something asap. I mean was that just the first idea you guys threw out or was it the easiest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spicycookie Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 At least they are handling this in the best and most efficient way. The fact that they have the metrics to catch those who are guilty is a good thing. Obviously some will get away with it if they are within reasonable parameters. Those who went from Rank 10 to Rank 70 should not be QQing lol. While it is true the design team must rethink their strategy and play devils advocate in most of these design implementations. If I do such and such what is the result and crunch a discussion about what could possibly happen or maybe that is already being done. It's hard to say we don't work for BW and there has been too many issues for some to bear, however given that they have continuously delivered patches and hotfixes, I'm sure they are doing everything possible to resolve these issues. It is the first month and while they been beta testing for couple years now, it is still not at the scale that a live server brings. I hope March's Patch will be much improved and game stability has been reached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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