Tuscad Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) I don't think punishing those that "exploited" aka Camped at enemy bases is a good idea. They found an opening that Bioware failed to consider and used it, while not fair I have never played a game where everyone I have played against plays fairly. Was camping at the enemy bases and racking up a ridiculous amount of kills immoral? Absolutely. Should Bioware have anticipated this? Absolutely. Who is at fault here? Both Bioware and the players that did that, you cannot blame a player for taking a shortcut and you can't blame a developer for not considering every possible angle about every little thing (well technically you can, but these things should be expected to happen). I say that Bioware should just gives out warnings to the people that did "wrong" and let them keep what the have obtained afterall now clear rules appear to have been in place and therefore you cannot say that any rules where broken. I also say that Bioware should just look at this as a learning experience and keep in mind that players will be players. (I have never been to Ilium, although I do have a level 47 Inquisitor that has completed his story.) Edited January 21, 2012 by Tuscad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qadilu Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Punishing those that "exploited" aka Camped at enemy bases at spawn points is a good idea. They found an opening that Bioware failed to consider and used it, exploited, and grifed other player aka harassment by camping i mean killing someone at a spawn point were they can't do anything else in game and are stuck there (spawn, walk 1 foot, die, /repeat for valor points are unable to reach speeder point, go anywere else in game ) i do not mean killing in any other way were the player being killed can do something else. i understand pvp is killing others in game CAMPING = GRIEFING = HARASSMENT RULES OF CONDUCT Harassment Policy Our goal is to build a strong community that offers a comfortable atmosphere for all of our players. This means seeing that players have the ability to combat antisocial behavior Harassment consists of misuse and/or abuse of game mechanics and verbal harassment with the intention of distressing and offending other players. Game mechanics allow players to interact with the world and each other. For example, the ability to block a doorway is a game mechanic. Use of game mechanics like these is by no means considered harassment in and of itself. The key to determining whether the mechanic is being misused or abused is to determine "intent." Reported incidents are not considered harassment until it is determined by the SWTOR CS that it was done to intentionally to cause distress or to offend other players. Harassment is also any behavior that is incessant, inescapable, derogatory and directed specifically at you or your group. Before reporting, a genuine attempt to alleviate the situation should be made by leaving the area or the offending player, or asking them politely to stop. If a sincere attempt has been made to solve the problem and the offending player persists in the behavior, it should be reported. Behavior that is always considered harassment includes derogatory and/or hateful comments that are sexual, racist, religious, or related to gender or creed. A judgment of valid harassment can result in penalties placed on the harassing party up to and including immediate account closure, based on the severity of harassment and the player's past account history. Player versus Player (“PvP”) activities, where available, are not exempt from this policy. Edited January 21, 2012 by qadilu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cropkiller Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Anyone saying that this is a "bug exploit" is being ridiculous. It's not our fault that they made the turrets so weak that we could camp the Republic base. I'm sure some of us did not want to camp for Valor, but why shouldn't we? We knew that there would not be any rollbacks, putting us at a disadvantage in pvp if we did not participate. Issues like this should be resolved on the PTR, not on live servers. If it's live, it's fair game. EDIT: And to people quoting the Terms of Use and the Code of Conduct: ILUM is an open world PVP(key word PVP) zone! How is killing other people against the CoC? The answer: it's not. Edited January 21, 2012 by Cropkiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentProphet Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Tnx a lot. I just reached 50 that day and now dedicated my whole time playing warzones thing is ppl with full bettlemaster are wipeing the floor with me and the rest and decideing the game almost by them sefes. GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zidstar Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 If you 'took advantage' of the situation thinking it was okay, than that's understandable. But then those of you who are QQing about getting your Valor rolled back sound like little exploiting crybabies. Go earn your Valor legit and shut up thnx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asunderco Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Yeah that's exactly what i was saying. Why not? Some people find shortcuts and more power to them, do they pay the same as you to get the same opportunity or the same outcome? Bioware's fault, Bioware's problem, not theirs. You obviously can't see past your own keyboard. Yes they, BW, made a mistake. But that mistake left unchanged, will and has lead to game imbalance. Why would YOU pay monthly for a game you always lose, can't win, or can't catch up to, the people who took advantage of an unfair situation that was not intended? "More power to them"!? Gawd I hope you don't have a drivers license, according to your decision making skills quoted above. Think of it as, 'If I were in their shoes.' The game must be re-balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWalton Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Anyone saying that this is a "bug exploit" is being ridiculous. It's not our fault that they made the turrets so weak that we could camp the Republic base. I'm sure some of us did not want to camp for Valor, but why shouldn't we? We knew that there would not be any rollbacks, putting us at a disadvantage in pvp if we did not participate. Issues like this should be resolved on the PTR, not on live servers. If it's live, it's fair game. EDIT: And to people quoting the Terms of Use and the Code of Conduct: ILUM is an open world PVP(key word PVP) zone! How is killing other people against the CoC? The answer: it's not. Camping is cheating...simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyn Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Anyone saying that this is a "bug exploit" is being ridiculous. It's not our fault that they made the turrets so weak that we could camp the Republic base. I'm sure some of us did not want to camp for Valor, but why shouldn't we? We knew that there would not be any rollbacks, putting us at a disadvantage in pvp if we did not participate. Issues like this should be resolved on the PTR, not on live servers. If it's live, it's fair game. EDIT: And to people quoting the Terms of Use and the Code of Conduct: ILUM is an open world PVP(key word PVP) zone! How is killing other people against the CoC? The answer: it's not. If you didn't want to you should have. This hurts PvP. Many people exploited it to gain an unfair advantage. How would you like to go ionto every WZ with battlemaster and can't do anything. Ironiclly it wasn't like this at all the day before. Walk in the other sides shoes. If you say you wouldn't care your full of it. They really better do something soon cause many of us are sick of it. You want to keep it give the rebs a 10 times valor increasde for an entire weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asunderco Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 They really better do something soon cause many of us are sick of it. You want to keep it give the rebs a 10 times valor increasde for an entire weekend. Or free Battlemaster gear to equal out the balance. Lets see if the camping Imps think THAT'S fair! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cropkiller Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Many people exploited it to gain an unfair advantage. How would you like to go ionto every WZ with battlemaster and can't do anything. My point exactly! I get Huttball about 50% of the time versus other Empire players. Why should I not try to be on the same level as them? Having said that I only got about 2 valor levels before the patch, but others who camped Ilum all day don't need to be punished for "clever use of game mechanics". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaaxinator Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 "EA strives to provide a safe and fair playing environment for all players of our Game. Accordingly, EA employs anti-cheating and fraud prevention utilities to help prevent behaviors that can otherwise negatively affect player experience." Straight from EUALA 3.b. "Anti-Cheat And Fraud Prevention Technologies" section. Also stated: "This EUALA grants you a limited license to use the Software to play the Game. You have no rights to or in the Software and/or the Game or its content." EUALA 2.d. "No Rights over results of use of Software or over in-Game content" section. Basically, by agreeing to this, which all who play did, you agree to not exploit the game at all. The definition of exploit be it the situation or the circumstances under which they occur are also not yours to determine because they covered their backs with an all encompassing statement" "This EUALA may be modified by EA at any time." Beginning of 5th paragraph in section 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzucarSalado Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Chapeau to Bioware!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scan Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) How can they punish players for pushing the game mechanics, I would not even call this an expoilt, its just players moving as a crowd (unstopable) to tag the enemy. If a group of players were pushing rebels back to their base how can you stop a mass from going further? I remember calling for people to pull back to get them out, eventually there was so many empire there it over powered the guns, this led inexorably to the masses moving forward trying to tag the enemy. How is it the players fault? I was there, in the rebel base, not AOEing the spawn point but healing those shot by towers. Rollback valour by all means but threatening bans?! I am by definition culpable for the madness of crowds, this falls squarely on the shoulders of the developers and to blame the players for a mechanic is unforgivable. It's like the disaster of a football crowd being crushed by the surge of the masses, you cannot stop the masses from moving forward when team scores, blaming the crowd for the deaths of those that were crushed!? Its shifting the burden of blame, and the designers of the stadium are to blame and one of the reasons you do not see standing stadiums anymore. Its shameful to blame the playerbase, of course you will see players that were affected by the madness of the crowd gleefully whooping to see the authority punish those that played this way but to do this is as the authority is pitiful. Edited January 21, 2012 by Scan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRINnBARRETT Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I don't know what the answer is for Ilum, but I joined an Ops group last night as Republic & we found a total of 2 Imps in an hour period on a heavy Imp server ( The Jedi Covenant). Day before it was a virtual sea of red. What a difference a day makes. Either they got what they came for & saw no reason to participate last night, or they were burned out after the previous day. But it's no exaggeration that the zone went from exploit-land to wasteland in no time flat. Prior to 1.1, we just watched each other shoot rockets. I dunno, but I won't be wasting any more time out there until the scandal dust settles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dronepilot Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I completely approve of Bioware's response to this, its very fair and measured. It doesn't penalise us who were not there on Ilum during this Valor quest fest for points. Treating other players like farm pigs for the slaughter - NOT an enjoyable game experience, I would not of wanted to be there to see that, the videos were bad enough TBH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vordy Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 How the hell can you call them exploiters, its your own damn fault that they could enter the Republic Base, no action is required. Foolish of Bioware to blame the Empire side when its their own stupid fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qadilu Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) THIS IS CAMPING BAN EVERYONE INVOLVED SEE VIDEO Punishing those that "exploited" aka Camped at enemy bases at spawn points is a good idea. They found an opening that Bioware failed to consider and used it, exploited, and grifed other player aka harassment By camping i mean killing someone at a spawn point were they can't do anything else in game and are stuck there ie .. (spawn, walk 1 foot, die, /repeat process ) they did it for valor points and the players being killed are unable to reach speeder point and go anywere else in game. i do not mean killing in any other way were the player being killed can do something else. i do understand pvp is killing others in game. they were asked to stop see video chat log CAMPING = GRIEFING = HARASSMENT RULES OF CONDUCT Harassment Policy Our goal is to build a strong community that offers a comfortable atmosphere for all of our players. This means seeing that players have the ability to combat antisocial behavior Harassment consists of misuse and/or abuse of game mechanics and verbal harassment with the intention of distressing and offending other players. Game mechanics allow players to interact with the world and each other. For example, the ability to block a doorway is a game mechanic. Use of game mechanics like these is by no means considered harassment in and of itself. The key to determining whether the mechanic is being misused or abused is to determine "intent." Reported incidents are not considered harassment until it is determined by the SWTOR CS that it was done to intentionally to cause distress or to offend other players. Harassment is also any behavior that is incessant, inescapable, derogatory and directed specifically at you or your group. Before reporting, a genuine attempt to alleviate the situation should be made by leaving the area or the offending player, or asking them politely to stop. If a sincere attempt has been made to solve the problem and the offending player persists in the behavior, it should be reported. Behavior that is always considered harassment includes derogatory and/or hateful comments that are sexual, racist, religious, or related to gender or creed. A judgment of valid harassment can result in penalties placed on the harassing party up to and including immediate account closure, based on the severity of harassment and the player's past account history. Player versus Player (“PvP”) activities, where available, are not exempt from this policy. P.S. Pls Tell me if this not harassment and why pls? yes i re-posted this reply Edited January 21, 2012 by qadilu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phadian_gess Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 ok i roll as a republic toon but when i noticed them talk about camping and punishment within the same paragraph i realised clearly these dev's have not played UO or really understand the sad fact that camping is VERY MUCH an aspect of this kind of pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vordy Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 P.S. Pls Tell me if this not harassment and why pls?[/size][/color] yes i re-posted this reply Its not harassment, camping is fine on a PvP server, Bioware's own fault that the cannons didnt do more damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phadian_gess Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 THIS IS CAMPING BAN EVERYONE INVOLVED SEE VIDEO Punishing those that "exploited" aka Camped at enemy bases at spawn points is a good idea. They found an opening that Bioware failed to consider and used it, exploited, and grifed other player aka harassment By camping i mean killing someone at a spawn point were they can't do anything else in game and are stuck there ie .. (spawn, walk 1 foot, die, /repeat process ) they did it for valor points and the players being killed are unable to reach speeder point and go anywere else in game. i do not mean killing in any other way were the player being killed can do something else. i do understand pvp is killing others in game. they were asked to stop see video chat log CAMPING = GRIEFING = HARASSMENT RULES OF CONDUCT P.S. Pls Tell me if this not harassment and why pls? yes i re-posted this reply you clearly have not played ultima online or you wouldnt be wanting your hand held by bioware when you pvp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPierce Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) This is absolute horse **** for a response. They either need to do a mass rollback or openly publish the names of those they are actually punishing, and to what degree. Transparency is the only solution to a colossal ****up of this magnitude. On the very first major patch they took a massive squat down steaming pile of **** on the entire PVP system. If they aren't willing to sack up and do what is actually right and roll back valor, they should at least guarantee the community they are actually doing something by providing us the details as to who and what. Edited January 21, 2012 by MrPierce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPierce Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Excellent news! This is what I was hoping for and it is definitely the best way to handle it. Not everyone deserves to be punished for the exploits of a few. I hope you get everyone who participated in the exploit and I hope they learn a lesson. Thanks for all your support on this Bioware, you have done a great job handling things despite what all the naysayers might think. The only way to properly get everyone who exploited is to roll back all Ilum valor. It is ALL suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venruki Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Fair enough, Well done BioWare for handling this professionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoDeX Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Much love Bioware Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPierce Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Wait is this the same Jeff Hickman who crashed Warhammer into the side of the mountain?!?!?! No wonder this is such a mess. We're all ****ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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