Lazorous Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 In this, my friend, we are in 100% agreement. Personally, I'm looking to GW2 and TSW to get my PvP itch scratched. Agreed. Here's to hoping GW2 isn't over-hyped and doesn't disappoint. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noleader Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Arenas increase the community's overall skill-level. I'm very much in favor of adding them here. In fact I know a ton of people who aren't playing this game purely because there's no arena implemented yet. Would you feel the same way if all your got from Arena was the overall skill-level increase and no gear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resinate Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 People don't like the idea of skill-based PvP. They want it to be a faction-based zerg fest where they can hide anonymously spamming TRACER MISSILE and LIGHTNING BOLT and get hard when they crit, and start wanking in general chat about how good at PVP they are. These heroes cannot stand a 3v3 or a 5v5 because they are bad, but confronting them with this fact only makes them scream "ARENA IS NOT RP." This attitude here is why I don't do arenas and why they ruin the pvp community. Do arenas take more skill than warzones? Yes they do somewhat. But before the e-peen train gets rolling there are variables more important than skill in a limited 2v2,3v3, or even 5v5. In relative order above skill are; connection speed, computer/graphics speed, class balance, class comp, gear. All of these trump "skill" to a certain degree. So unless you happen to be at a lan party running identical computer rigs, with everyone using FOM class comps and specs, you really don't have a lot to say about skill. But, people still will act as if their ability to move a mouse and press keys faster affords them a special place in the world and the "scrubs" can have their leavings TL/DR other variables more important than "skill" impact arena style pvp more than warzone pvp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Agreed. Here's to hoping GW2 isn't over-hyped and doesn't disappoint. Cheers. It is and it will. But it will still have better PvP than TOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paganini Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 It's a lot easier to call someone low skill if they don't have a way to prove otherwise. It's easier to just get carried in warzones to get gear. You have to use more abilities, and in some cases spec weird to be optimal. You have to actually contribute. You have to accept some people enjoy a different playstyle then you do. There is a possibility they might tweak your class (they are going to do this anyways). You don't have the advantage of steamrolling pugs, there are none. If you don't like arenas you don't like them. But to say they shouldn't exist because you personally don't care for them is ridiculous. It is an aspect of a game, it's exclusion only polarizes a demographic Bioware is trying to keep. Very well said OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dharagada Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 In this, my friend, we are in 100% agreement. Personally, I'm looking to GW2 and TSW to get my PvP itch scratched. Hrm TSW? The Secret World? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloatedGuppy Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Agreed. Here's to hoping GW2 isn't over-hyped and doesn't disappoint. Cheers. Well it's too late for THAT, unfortunately. But we can still hope it doesn't disappoint! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloatedGuppy Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Hrm TSW? The Secret World? Yarp. Due to Funcom, it'll likely be a train wreck at release, but we can always hope. Any game with 3 factions and world PvP will get at least cursory interest from me until the next DAoC is identified and acquired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandoichi Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Arenas would be fine if they were gear-neutral. Give everyone equal stats regardless of what armor they are wearing and then it would be acceptable. Gear is nothing but time played. Gear/Rank =/= skill. On my server (The Crucible Pits), every single Battlemaster is garbage at PvP. Prepatch, our BMs were getting stomped by lvl 30s in warzones. Even worse now after the patch when 100 BMs appeared out of nowhere and now have a new title and fancy gear they can brag about. Putting valor ranks and gear associated with it into the game makes PvP the exact same as PvE. Play 24/7 for a month means you are way ahead of everyone else on gear and enjoy a nice advantage until everyone catches up. This is fine for PvE, which is the way it should be. In PvP though, rather than play all day to improve skill, everyone just plays all day to grind valor. The bads stay bad, but get a gear advantage, which gives them a false sense of skill and something to brag about. Leave PvE aspects out of PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazorous Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 It is and it will. But it will still have better PvP than TOR. Considering GW2 was built for PvP, yeah I would certainly believe it will be better than TOR PvP right out of the box. However, I PvP in TOR for the basic concept of shooting my blaster, or wielding my saber at another player within the Star Wars universe. It has nothing to do with true competitive pvp play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semitote Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I'd rather see more Huttball style games developed and see leagues for each match type rather than arenas. Not so much scheduled matches, but like a ladder system. And make the new entry league separate from the newbie league so people don't stack good teams and just roll all the lesser players. Queue times would suck if you made too many different leagues though. Either that or you could play anyone in any league and would gain/lose points based on what league that team was in when you lose or win. It would just prioritize you against teams from your league. Essentially the same concept as arenas, but using a team sport instead of just mindlessly fighting other players alongside other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dharagada Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Yarp. Due to Funcom, it'll likely be a train wreck at release, but we can always hope. Any game with 3 factions and world PvP will get at least cursory interest from me until the next DAoC is identified and acquired. I miss DAoC, that was PVP If SWTOR had been built closer to DAoC i'd never unplug. Edited January 20, 2012 by Dharagada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloatedGuppy Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I miss DAoC, that was PVP We ALL miss DAoC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDurb Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Before you go posting misleading information, the dev only said it was a mistake because it's impossible to balance pve and pvp. Obviously WoW has a lot of children who enjoy pve carebearing around. You know what else Ron said? He said "if I can go back in time before the game shipped I would have either made serious changes to basic class balance to facilitate that type of play, or if I went back to when we had the idea two years later, I would have said, "Maybe we shouldn't go there." What part of that statement does he only say "oh its a crap idea." No he just admits balance is a problem which it is... HOWEVER that hasnt been a single season every single class was able to attain gladiator. Why? Because skill > gear The argument that entry level is too hard is flawed. It is EXTREMELY easy, especially now considering you can get weapons from honor, to rank up. I got 2200 on the said to be worst class in the game right now in honor blues from s9. Fact: people who complain about arena, suck at it and it hurt their epeens cause they arent slaying internet dragons for style points Fact: Swtor will never care about arena because it's like 1% of mmo population Fact: Guild Wars 2 is the most hyped up, and exciting mmo of 2012. There is a reason it is rated above swtor on every single gaming website. It is better. GW1 sucked, gw2 alpha client runs smoother than swtor. Keep complaing that you dont want arena and drive more players away from the game. Swtor has already lost probably half their subscribers before the first month. BTW when arenas came out in BC, they were INCREDIBLY popular, and to say they werent is just lying and misleading. I would love to see another interview with a wow dev now. Here would be my question... "whats your opinion on arena now after watching so many failed mmo launches and their inability to tap into the competitive pvp market?" There is a reason there is an arena competition at every blizzcon and people get paid to play arena. You don't get paid to play something thats unpopular. Agree with hoogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VertisReaper Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Once Bioware irons out the issues with unresponsive controls they need to get cracking on arenas, ladder, and a web based character tracking system asap. We need arenas because Ilum just proves that world pvp fails, is boring, and can never be balanced. Who actually goes to Ilum with the mindset "oh I want to pvp". Most people go with the intention "oh I have to do my daily". You are NEVER going to have balanced world PvP like that. We need a ladder so we can distinguish the bad players from the good. This requires an ELO based matchmaking system. A players ranking should display beneath their name, that way when some low rated scrub posts some junk I can immediately discredit him and filter/ignore all their posts. Make sure ladder play rewards gear of the highest tier ( or looks much better ) so that the baddies who only play unranked Warzones can't get it. This brings us to the stat tracking system. I want to see a comprehensive layout of a player's spec and whatnot. So if I see someone who is like lvl 30 trying to talk like he understands PvP, I can immediately call him out and ignore that player. We also need to see this stat tracking system so that good/pro players like myself can keep track of other players and make sure they don't try to take my Rank 1 title. If you aren't a WoW gladiator,GW gold cloak,Masters League in SC2 or 2000+ ELO in LoL or equivalent please do not post, you are subpar and your opinion on competitive play/esports doesn't concern you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jansports Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 It's not a claim. It's a fact. Arenas are not real PvP. If you want to claim that a narrow instanced subset of canned PvP format implemented in one specific game is "real PvP", by all means put forth some semblance of logic or argument to demonstrate that players should consider it "real PvP". Good luck. In Arenas as a (P)layer I competed against(versus) other (P)layers. There. I Win. A player versus another player. At least 2 players are involved. There is a contest of sorts in which one or more may win while the others will lose. PvP! It's not even that I hate world pvp or warzones with objectives other than death match. I just happen to enjoy small scale group pvp. In the world this never works out because why bring a group when you can bring an ops? Warzones are fun but currently half the team(at least) is PuGs who I can't honestly trust to know that it's even possible to have throw huttball bound to a key. I honestly and truly think everyone (every single one) who's claimed that comp > skill in Arena never played at a high enough skill where that statment could potentially be true. Getting to high enough to be glad was as easy as grabbing a few friends throwing some specs together and trying hard. I've play some TERRIBLE arena team comps and had enough success to obtain all of that seasons gear. AND I'M NOT EVEN THAT GOOD MYSELF. Mythic has done interesting things with how they view a 'tanks' role in pvp. And well 3 man groups just seem like an obvious thing in a game where Tank Heals DPS trinity exists not only in pve but in pvp also. I mean lets say theoretically I bring Powertech Assassin Operative into a 3v3 against Juggernaut Merc Sorc. First and foremost team A has 2 potential tanks while team B has two potential heals. target calling, controlling and timing switches becomes an issue in and of itself. Whats more is offhandedly I know in a slow paced controled fight an operative will heal for longer than a sorc but only match a merc. While a sorc with a larger base pool and less regen options will heal better in a fight thats paced quickly. Perhaps the Jugg isn't even really a tank he's just rage and looking to smash and glean as much extra dps as he can from TM debuff. If this is the case you best beleive that powertech is going to have to hold his pulls to peel during important times while the assassin is more likely to 'sit' the merc who as arsenal dislike's people in his face. Conversely if the jugg *is* a tank and the merc is healing and Dr. Madness sorc is planning to pressure our operative into an unrecoverable state of energy it's going to take a sharp eye and a coordinated CC to get KP to fall off the 'main target' once the operative is out of cc and casting to keep his target up(his target now gaurded presumably) a second coordinated hard switch to either the op himself or the tank who's been dwindled from gaurding the deeps at a time when KP isn't on secondary targets due to energy stress or time contraints. I just kinda kept typing there and I apologize because it's perhaps not interesting to some of you. I however enjoy this level of games. There's depth that can't be reproduced in a situation in which the best team does the most to ignore the other(Huttball, the less you fight the more you cap news@11) That isn't to say huttball isn't itself fun. 40 people AoEing on a speeder exit? Not so much fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-Nova Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 arena could work if they disable EXP for them. as it sits the pop imbalance valor **** of ilum 1.1 imps with BM will just reap the ranking system till they are paired with skillful players but in the mean while republic will be dominated by baddies with better gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varcado Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Arenas destroy PvP. Seriously look at WoW. I agree if we had arena operative,commandos,and bh's would be facerolling everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Science Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I don't mind arenas, and I don't mind if you get amazing gear from it, as long as you can't take that arena gear into warzones. You guys are cool with that, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luminant Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 This game needs a skillful way to get PvP gear. Arena is the way to do it. I want to feel rewarded for the PvP I play and I want other players to strive to get better. That's how PvP remains fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloatedGuppy Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 This game needs a skillful way to get PvP gear. Arena is the way to do it. I want to feel rewarded for the PvP I play and I want other players to strive to get better. That's how PvP remains fun. Isn't quality competition a reward in and of itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazorous Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Arenas would be fine if they were gear-neutral. Give everyone equal stats regardless of what armor they are wearing and then it would be acceptable. Gear is nothing but time played. Gear/Rank =/= skill. On my server (The Crucible Pits), every single Battlemaster is garbage at PvP. Prepatch, our BMs were getting stomped by lvl 30s in warzones. Even worse now after the patch when 100 BMs appeared out of nowhere and now have a new title and fancy gear they can brag about. Putting valor ranks and gear associated with it into the game makes PvP the exact same as PvE. Play 24/7 for a month means you are way ahead of everyone else on gear and enjoy a nice advantage until everyone catches up. This is fine for PvE, which is the way it should be. In PvP though, rather than play all day to improve skill, everyone just plays all day to grind valor. The bads stay bad, but get a gear advantage, which gives them a false sense of skill and something to brag about. Leave PvE aspects out of PvP. This is why I'm starting to not like some of the First Person Shooter formulas coming out. For example BattleField 3. You get score and ranking, and with higher ranking you unlock better weapons and accessories. What happened to everyone having the same access to all the weapons and it really depended on skill to blow the other guy away? But now, because someone spent more time on the game, he can spray with his ranked weapon that barely has any recoil and you're at a disadvantage from your limited arsenal. It seems a lot of games are going into the PvE mindset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jansports Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I don't mind arenas, and I don't mind if you get amazing gear from it, as long as you can't take that arena gear into warzones. You guys are cool with that, right? I don't even think Arena's need different gear than warzones. Currently getting BM gear is just a function of time invested. It's as if operations bosses were coded to spontaneously combust aand drop loot if your group was in the same room as them long enough. Obviously gear and titles are not rewarded for skill, the only reward for skill is well the honor of knowing you won and they lost. Which honestly is enough for alot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalindran Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Isn't quality competition a reward in and of itself? I think it is Guppy. Exactly when did pvp suddenly become all about "getting gear"? I thought "getting gear" was why people did endgame raiding, not pvp. Have fun ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloatedGuppy Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I think it is Guppy. Exactly when did pvp suddenly become all about "getting gear"? I thought "getting gear" was why people did endgame raiding, not pvp. Have fun ! It makes no sense to me. It's like going to play some football, and then demanding after you win that you want special pads that will make winning easier next time. The whole concept is so ANTI-competitive it blows my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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