Ruuprect Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 No, I wouldn't even began to imagine how insane it is with BM. I have full Champ, minus main hand. Yea, im still missing the chest, the skirt, and the mainhand. That will prob make a big diff. That should be like another 150+ expertise. And a lot of Force Power from the main hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEAF Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Most of the excessive Sorc numbers in Voidstar/clump situations come from their AoE which is orders of magnitude stronger then the Merc/Op versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eore Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I'll take the nerf to healing . . . . . . only if they bump our damage specs and nerf the MASSIVE burst. If I crit heal for 3k it doesn't help when the person just RECEIVED a 6k crit. When you have classes that can do 2k damage / hit constantly, healing needs a buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beejlee Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 CC/Kiting is tanking damage. Herpaderp There is a reason why you see Trooper/BH healers die way faster than any sorcerer/sage healer. Here's a hint, their toolbox is crap. This. If our 1m CD stun and knockback are down, the only thing we can do is sit there and spam heals on ourselves hoping for a peel. 2 interrupts spell doom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor_Grammar Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) nah bro, that's just survivability. I never meant to imply that sage survivability was better/worse, just different because you kite/cc more rather than tank. He just doesn't get that a slow isn't the same as heavy armor; one type of class is about avoiding damage, while the other migrating it which would make it inherently superior if you are the subject of a focus fire. The classes are not on even terms when it comes to dealing with focus fire. This. If our 1m CD stun and knockback are down, the only thing we can do is sit there and spam heals on ourselves hoping for a peel. 2 interrupts spell doom. You think you're the only class with a 1 minute cd for cc? It's all moot anyways if you're being focused. Taking out one guy isn't going to keep you up any longer. Edited January 20, 2012 by Poor_Grammar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Philar Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Myself (a SI Healer) and my 2 friends took on the entire Republic team at one of the turrets on Alderaan. We won. The reason was not because I was so OP that I could heal through anything, the reason was that I was not targeted a single time. When I can stand back and shield + heal completely uninterrupted, my 2 friends are going to be invincible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beejlee Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 He just doesn't get that a slow isn't the same as heavy armor; one type of class is about avoiding damage, while the other migrating it which would make it inherently superior if you are the subject of a focus fire. The classes are not on even terms when it comes to dealing with focus fire. You think you're the only class with a 1 minute cd for cc? Never said that. Just saying that's all we have. Armor only works against weapon damage. We take just as much damage as any other class against the mostly elemental/internal/kinetic damage in PVP. We have no shield, no force speed, no stealth. Just my trooper POV, it's quite difficult to escape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewgal Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) It's just getting ridiculous, the outcomes of all the warzones now are just the team that has the most sorcs/sages spamming their overpowered heals wins. As an adventurous PvP Sage healer I'd have to say that your post is short-sighted and naive and Bioware would be well not to nerf PvP healing...in fact would be crazy to do it. The reality is a good DPS class in PvP one on one can nail an unhealed target very rapidly..in fact if anything to rapidly, especially if multiple say Sith DPS-speced and PvP geared Sorcerers gang up on a single target. There is not as much incentive to heal as dps in SWTOR at the moment, there simply aren't many healing medals. The only PvP war zone where you get large heal numbers, I can get 400-500K sometimes is at the opening doors as a defender/attacker at Void Star. If it stale mates I can't hit the high numbers, if it doesn't the number are much less. In my view a trolling topic on PvP forum, Sorc and Sage PvP healers should be able to heal properly in PvP, otherwise everyone will go DPS. Edited January 20, 2012 by Ewgal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruuprect Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Myself (a SI Healer) and my 2 friends took on the entire Republic team at one of the turrets on Alderaan. We won. The reason was not because I was so OP that I could heal through anything, the reason was that I was not targeted a single time. When I can stand back and shield + heal completely uninterrupted, my 2 friends are going to be invincible. ^^This^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatinLegacy Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The Sorverer nerf is coming for sure, their is no doubt about that. Almost every Warzone match is dominated by Sorcs on the Shadowlands server. I do have over a few hundred screenshots of PvP scoreboards now to prove that point. I even rolled one to see what the hell makes them so overpowered & it's not one ability that makes them strong, but a combination of things that puts them over the top. They can pretty much build a high damage high healing hybrid with multiple stuns, a shield that absorbs 100% damage & can use force run that allows them to escape a 1 v 1 if they are taking to much heat. Most will go down the lightning tree & pick up a few other skills in the other trees that shouldn't be allowed as a lower bracket skill. Such as Calcify ( Increases force lightning damage by 12% with 3 points put into it ). No skill of that caliber should be anywhere near the bottom of any tree. So yes Sorcs, dispute all you want, you guys will be nerfed sooner or later. -LatinLegacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewgal Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Sorc dps for sure needs to be looked at again, but I don't have a problem with their heals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erevan_Kindelar Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 It's just getting ridiculous, the outcomes of all the warzones now are just the team that has the most sorcs/sages spamming their overpowered heals wins. Yes, let's nerf the squishiest and least-effective of the PvP healers because Evuke does not know how to play his class (or, apparently, how to do any kind of PvP in MMOs). Why are Sages/Sorcerers the least effective healers? Because for a couple of seconds before the heal pops, the Sage/Sorc has a f***ing casting timer that shows anyone targetting the healer that they are casting. "Oh, look, the healer is casting a heal. Quick guys, get the tank down so that we can hit the healer next!" or... "Oh, healer casting a heal..." interrupt or damage... "oh look, healer casting a heal..." interrupt or damage... In the first case, the healer is probably healing the damned tank. In the second, he is sitting there and is about as useful as a chocolate frying pan. Which option do you think a decent PvP team take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satans_Puppet Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 thats f*ing team work! the d!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor_Grammar Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Never said that. Just saying that's all we have. Armor only works against weapon damage. We take just as much damage as any other class against the mostly elemental/internal/kinetic damage in PVP. We have no shield, no force speed, no stealth. Just my trooper POV, it's quite difficult to escape. You are on even terms with a Sorc for those damage types, and superior to all other types. Everything you said is true, and it comes back to the avoidance vs. migration aspect of the classes. Unfortunately migration becomes infinitely more valuable when you are dealing with more then one opponent, which is the majority of the time as a healer. I'm not arguing if Troopers or BH healers need an escape mechanism, I'm simply staying on topic and saying Sorcs are not OP, but instead could use a self preservation mechanism. Maybe other healer classes do too I agree, but that isn't the argument atm. Edited January 20, 2012 by Poor_Grammar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aranha Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 well he does have a point that healers in general are way too strong, and never runs out of ressource ( force, heat, energy ) ever if they use a correct rotation. I tried specing healer for the lulz ending up with 500k healing ( would have done more but nobody were taking damage, no one even died on my side at all. ) I could get 2-3 good pvpers on me and still manage to survive easilly. Interupts need to block the whole healing school spells. Because it is just so easy to get interupt and use another healing spell, and again and again. Even when focused firering enemy healers, if they are half decent and have guard on him, its a waste of time trying to kill him if his dps are good peeling enemies. Its not the healing debuff the problem its the fact that interupts are almost useless and healer never run OOM. Very true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinkaid Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) You do realise that only one Sorc/Sage heal is instant cast and it's very easy to lock one out if you time your stuns and interrupts right, right? +1 . Good advice. Interrupts are far from useless, learn how to use em. Edited January 20, 2012 by kinkaid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beejlee Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 You are on even terms with a Sorc for those damage types, and superior to all other types. Everything you said is true, and it comes back to the avoidance vs. migration aspect of the classes. Unfortunately migration becomes infinitely more valuable when you are dealing with more then one opponent, which is the majority of the time as a healer. I'm not arguing if Troopers or BH healers need an escape mechanism, I'm simply staying on topic and saying Sorcs are not OP, but instead could use a self preservation mechanism. Maybe other healer classes do too I agree, but that isn't the argument atm. Touche, I'm with ya there. I also do not think sorcs are terribly OP. I consistently heal higher than most sorcs, and think where I really fall behind is the troopers lack of AOE healing. Should we have more AOE is another discussion in itself, but back on topic per se, sorcs are not all that ridiculous as everyone is making them out to be. We see more sorcs up top, but I've broken the 500k mark a couple times as a trooper and in most even matched WZ's I'm at 400. I do notice that all the threads are asking for sorc nerfs but not sage nerfs. On my server, this comes down to the Pubs not focusing as well as the Imps. No healer in this game is OP enough that they can survive 3 dps on them without a guard or chain healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor_Grammar Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Very true! Very not true. If a healer is guarded that means the opposition is displaying teamwork. People peeling you off of him is also a sign of teamwork. What this means to you is that you will also have to use teamwork. Maybe this involves pressuring him to heal himself instead of the ball carrier, maybe this requires you to time your interrupts. Maybe you just need to blow your cooldowns and burst him when he gets low and goes to heal. What this does not mean is you have a lack of options to deal with him. You not cooperating when the opponents are clearly using teamwork is not a fault of the class. Let me ask, how much health did that healer get you down while you and a friend were beating on him ( while clearly not using any interrupts)? It was 0% because he was busy spam healing himself, wasn't it? You and your friend were never in any danger of dying to him, were you? Healer ≠ free kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varcan Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The problem is in part their infinite resource for PvP purposes, and the fact that their are so many of them typically. You can't focus/interrupt 1 sorc if the other 3 sorcs are healing and AoEing around him. This is the typical scenario. The healing numbers are superior to the dmg #s(base). ACs capable of healing are not near as popular on Rep side. PuGs cannot overcome this advantage, and this is likely the main reason Imp wins more warzones on average. It's simply what classes are being played. Rep gets a LOT of Jedi Knights, which are poor sub mid 40s, very good roleplayers at 50. But you don't need 5 people roleplayin the same thing. Imps get a lot of Sorcs, and sense they can do it all its no issue that a team is primarily made up of Sorcs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrienov Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Threadomancy ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revampt Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 It's just getting ridiculous, the outcomes of all the warzones now are just the team that has the most sorcs/sages spamming their overpowered heals wins. pretty sure sorcs jsut got nerfed read the patch notes, also the way expertise changes gives damge bonus a 4% advantage over damage mitigated and healing 10% less than damage done, healer got nerfed, they still win if they are skilled and know how to play, if your loseing its your own fault and your teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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