belialle Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Where do sorcerers get their stealth detection again? I guess I missed it. So what? Don't they have a talent for a 2 second stun when their bubble breaks? If they don't have that talented, that is their own problem. If they don't remember to keep themselves bubbled.....again, that's their problem....It's not a problem with stealthy classes. In the current system they just sap the tank and kill the squishy dpser and vanish if the tank trinkets. Sorry, but I don't see the problem here. The good news here is that you have a chance to force them to use a very valuable cooldown. So you don't get a kill off them? BFD Edited January 20, 2012 by belialle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidank Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Demo shout hasn't removed stealth for a long time. Well I haven't played in a long time, I assume they have some other way of de-stealthing rogues, they always have. So what? Don't they have a talent for a 2 second stun when their bubble breaks? If they don't have that talented, that is their own problem. If they don't remember to keep themselves bubbled.....again, that's their problem....It's not a problem with stealthy classes. Since when Is that stealth detection? And most sorcerers don't take that talent as it's in the lightning tree and in general going all the way down the madness tree for dot damage and creeping terror root is far more useful. Sorry, but I don't see the problem here. The good news here is that you have a chance to force them to use a very valuable cooldown. So you don't get a kill off them? BFD Are you ******** me? A. your trinket is on the same cooldown as vanish is B. Yeah, If i'm a classes counter I sort of expect to kill them, forcing them to use a 2 minute get out of jail free card doesn't really cut it for me... Or anyone else trying to cap an objective. If you think I should be forced to use my 2 minute cc breaker just so they're forced to use their 2 minute vanish, and retry the exact same thing in 10 seconds when my resolve wears off is balanced then frankly, you're a moron. Edited January 20, 2012 by Aidank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txshender Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Just keep an eye out for them and switch your Guard. Guard switching is a skill tanks are gonna have to learn. Ahem... If you are the tank, and you are attacked by an OP, how does switching who gets guard help you at all? Now, if a teammate is being destroyed by an OP, then yes, I agree with you. Switching guard would be good for them. If that is what you mean, then you really need to make your point more clearly in the future,l ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Well I haven't played in a long time, I assume they have some other way of de-stealthing rogues, they always have. Nah, that stuff got nerfed hard. Holy Nova and Blizzard/arcane exp will drain casters dry. Warriors don't have any AE that unstealths rogues anymore. It was part of the trade for rogues no longer being able to take 60% of your life in a stealth opener. Edited January 20, 2012 by Caelrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaknaphein Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I think I made it pretty clear in my original post. I agree, but if you give that to tanks, the stealthers are getting a 20m range in stealth casting opener that also teleports to the target and does severe dmg. Cool yeh? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belialle Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) We do? I know you are not talking about Vanguard. I admit that I haven't played that class yet. So....You are saying that you play a tanking class that has no defensive cooldowns? Interesting. I'll have to give that one a try to see how it goes. Seems strange to me, but I'll try anything (once). I assume you also wear medium armor? EDIT: Waaait a minuuuute. Don't you guys get that ground AoE stealth breaker? Get outta here. Edited January 20, 2012 by belialle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGoldCrayon Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 All the responses so far seem to ignore the real point. It's rock paper scissors. Tanks are rock, stealther is scissors, and non-stealther dps are paper. Except, the stealther gets to see what his opponent picks before going. When you know your opponent is picking rock, do you pick scissors and lose or just walk away? You walk away. So you never actually lose. Apparently some idiots *do* pick scissors and try to cut rock, fail, and die. That isn't balance, that is stupidity. Balance would be if rock could actually go out and kill scissors. But scissors is invisible, so it can't. If the game revolved around isolated 1v1's, this line of thinking might make sense, but it doesn't. It's heavily team based. If an op is going to be an asset to his team, hes not just going to 'walk away' from the fight. Operative survivability is horrible, burst is all they really have going for them. Burst needs to be tuned to the point where you don't see any classes throwing out the 6-8k crits on equal geared/leveled players, but at the same time you need to make sure a class is still viable if that is taken away. With the 50's only bracket now in place, and stacking done away with, let's see what kind of numbers are being thrown around before we start mobbing the forums, demanding the nerf bat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidank Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 Nah, that stuff got nerfed hard. Holy Nova and Blizzard/arcane exp will drain casters dry. Warriors don't have any AE that unstealths rogues anymore. It was part of the trade for rogues no longer being able to take 60% of your life in a stealth opener. Well I guess that's fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastion-fox Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 No. Stealth classes mainly ASSASSIN type classes have ALWAYS been given the option to pick his/her battles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojbor Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The problem is that tanks are supposed to counter operatives, and in a 1v1 fight we do. What? I'd like to see a movie with that, when operative opens on you from stealth and you survive this (in 1vs1). If I am lucky (that's a big if), I manage to hit him with 2 skills before I am dead. At the end of the fight he has still more than 90% of HP - and all that takes less than 10 seconds... where more than half of that time I am being in stun or knocked down. In most cases I don't even get a chance to use the medpack... Going solo is now on Ilum a death wish - I have to gang up with others if I don't want to be immediately ripen through... I have 4 Centurion gear pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rothnang Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Like the old saying goes... Mages are Paper, Warriors are Rock, Rogues are Scissors. Scissors beat Paper, Paper beats Rock, and Rock beats Scissors... But rock can't find Scissors... Because Scissors is invisible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakarn Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Ahem... If you are the tank, and you are attacked by an OP, how does switching who gets guard help you at all? Now, if a teammate is being destroyed by an OP, then yes, I agree with you. Switching guard would be good for them. If that is what you mean, then you really need to make your point more clearly in the future,l ya? If you're getting destroyed by an Operative you're either outgeared or doing something wrong. They don't have access to the absurd damage bonuses they had last patch. It just doesn't happen anymore. It was 50/50 even before the patch. A geared tank should absolutely crush them now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talkative Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 OP has apparently never played this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illwill- Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Lol, could someone tell me what snipers are if tanks are rocks? Since a majority of our attacks are weapon dmg (mitigated by everything from base stats to lightsabers to def to armor to look at us to us having to root ourself with the most bugged ability-lagged ability in the game etc), I kinda don't feel like we're paper. I am running around as lethality right now (horrible, horrible tree) because crouch/cover is broken. Can I do well? Yes, of course, I am good...but due to the fail that is Swtor-pvp, snipers are definately not top of the food chain and we do not have a single class we are a clear counter to. The OP (who I believe just...may...maybe...plays a tank?) wants tanks to be immortal, be able to close distances, have snares/roots etc...also they should be able to see stealthers, have guard, should be able to heal, preferably be able to fly and all attacks should be 40m range. Did I miss something? This thread should be a troll thread, but I doubt it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbitofdoom Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I admit that I haven't played that class yet. So....You are saying that you play a tanking class that has no defensive cooldowns? Interesting. I'll have to give that one a try to see how it goes. Seems strange to me, but I'll try anything (once). I assume you also wear medium armor? EDIT: Waaait a minuuuute. Don't you guys get that ground AoE stealth breaker? Get outta here. Yes vanguards/power techs get one but its usefullnes is another story. In theory is like hunter flare but range is clearly smaller(i would need to test it but think its 4m from the center of the marker meaning that if you drop it at your feet operative might be able to open on you from behind) and considering talent it was clearly meant as an ofensive tool. Had it bound to a mouse key but considering how many areas are build and players movment speeds its nearly impossible to destealth someone more offen than once in a blue moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannythefool Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Trooper/BH tanks get an active skill. Shadow/Assassin tanks can spec a stealth detection level bonus skill in their tank tree. If you want to play a tank that is slightly better at stealth detection, these are your choices. Be glad that not all classes are the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redderic Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 It's my understanding that if we go with the whole rock paper scissors model or whatever operatives are supposed to gank squishy dps classes. The idea though is that they are somehow countered by bulky tank classes. Okay, even though I don't necessarily like this, it would be fine... If it actually worked like this. However, as a stealth class (operative) you essentially get to pick your battles. If someone's a tank you simply don't open on him/her. If someone has guard you don't attack em. You just single out the squishy dps classes/healers and kill them, if things go south you vanish and go heal up somewhere else. My idea to counter this is simple, give tank classes/specs really good stealth detection. How about they can see any stealther within 15-20 meters. Essentially give them the option to protect their teammates from ambushes. Stealthers would still be able to sneak up on people, they'd just need to be a bit more sneaky about it (outrange the tank unless you're behind him / LOS, etc.) i dont know what class you play but shadow tanks get this crazy talent called Shadowsight. each point increases stealth detection. then there are the troopers/BH that get their nice like AOE droids that reveal stealthers in the area. sorry but knights/warriors are screwed... actually i dont know i dont have one and i cant really say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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