Stop the WoW comparisons!

[Volksworgen]

OP created this thread for a reason. He is jealous of WoW and is mad at it. A logical outcome from the creation of this thread.

[theothersteve]

WoW has been designed from the ground up to look better on far worse hardware. On the other hand, it's showing its age - the character models among other things look pretty atrocious.

 

TOR sets the bar much higher for minimum, however at its best it's certainly more beautiful than anything WoW can manage. Of course, if you're playing WoW to showcase your graphics card you are doing something seriously wrong.

 

Right now, my computer is pretty old, so I'd trade some of the pretty for a bit more playability. I realize that my computer is about the bottom end of what's expected, however. And I'm planning on upgrading soon anyway.

[smartalectwo]

Regardless of how justified the comparisons may or may not be, there is nothing that can stop them. Nothing.

[Putok]

I know when I go to buy a new car, I never compare it to its competitors in their current states. Instead, I look at how the competing vehicles were 7 years ago.

[KennethHoover]

Well, when you're that much invested in Candy Pandas and wearing wrinkled Pokeman pajamas with Cheeto stains on the collar while secluded in your mom's basement, then you're gonna talk about them ad nauseum....

[marshalleck]

And it's not like you could roll an alt for fun instead. 5th time clearing Stranglethorn Vale? /wrists

 

Having played beta and been forced to re-level characters repeatedly for months due to character wipes, I can tell you from firsthand experience that this feeling you have about Stranglethorn Veil *will* manifest over Taris and other sections of the game, eventually.

Edited January 19, 2012 by marshalleck

[Quaade]

But... the gameplay. ITS SO ALIKE!

 

It's too alike, it doesn't feel like anything I've ever seen in Star Wars, EVER and that's the problem, the system doesn't fit.

 

Building your story first, then deciding on the gameplay and then somehow make those as far removed as what anyone of us can see and remember from the Star Wars universe is astoundingly poor design.

 

Here's how it's done:

1. Realise your concept "we want to make a Star Wars game"

2. Realise what Star Wars is "it's a game that features a little magic in an otherwise hightech setting"

3. Conceptualise gameplay from the "feeling" of the setting "okay, so there's guns, and some people who runs around with glowing swords, how can we make those two radical different styles of gameplay meet?"

4. Create the world, find out how you want it to look

5. Find out what to do with the world "We want to use this world to tell a story"

5. Figure out how you want to tell the story "We want to tell the story trough voice acting and cinematic cutscenes."

 

Not:

1. "We want to make a story driven MMO"

2. "Let's make it Star Wars"

3. "We also need some landscapes the story can happen in"

4. "Oh and we need some gameplay, most people are used to hotkeys"

 

 

It's backwards and only hurts in the end because basic gameplay get pushed down to 4th tier when basic gameplay is what you spend most of your time doing in between the story and to push the story forward.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Quaade

[sDiesel]

yeah stop comparing this to WoW

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

its insulting to WoW

 

^this

 

annnnnnd this v

 

This game is a WoW clone.

Edited January 19, 2012 by sDiesel

[Kayleah]

I think that's a dead horse your beating...

 

People will forever and ever compare every MMO to WoW ... it's just how it is. WoW IMO is nothing special and it wasn't even the first MMO so I have no idea why the Wow-tards come out to play so often.

[AluminumMonster]

This game is a WoW clone.

[Adeonn]

this guy is a swtor fun

 

[LukeSaberRattler]

 

Not:

1. "We want to make a story driven MMO"

2. "Let's make it Star Wars"

3. "We need some gameplay, most people are used to hotkeys"

4. "Oh and we also need some landscapes the story can happen in"

 

It's backwards and only hurts in the end because basic gameplay get pushed down to 4th tier when basic gameplay is what you spend most of your time doing in between the story and to push the story forward.

 

This game was built around Knights of the Old Republic which used the same combat system currently SWTOR. They could have changed it but why do that when KOTOR was so successful the way it was. This is KOTOR with MMO interactions added in. Which I love I guess you have to actual like games to be more than just killing other peoples characters over and over again at lvl 50. Story drives every game purchase I make. Once I hit lvl 50 with each character type I won't be sticking around for PvP.

[Iskareot]

You know why they are speaking about it? It's because people like you. Ppl like you bring the WoW back to subject just by writing it down.

I play both of them and yes, WoW it's a better game (now that you ask for) by far and by any means that's my POV and yes i's called freedom of speach.

 

Just because SWTOR is 1 year, 5 or 10 years younger, doesn't mean that they couldn't implement things already known in the MMO world. That is not an excuse!!! Bioware should have learned the lesson.

 

So, stop feeding the trolls then!

 

 

You are wrong and wrong. My PoV says, as for "THINGS ALREADY KNOWN" in the MMO world is or has no bearing on anything at all.

 

Bioware should not learn any lessons and has not nor will it need to. You are assuming they wanted to be like WoW or needed to be. Your concept is false and is once again a PoV.

 

IF WE ARE GOING TO SAY THINGS KNOWN IN THE MMO world... that would be pretty open to anything good or bad.

 

I mean gosh, so far people have been able to clear content... level to 50, make guilds and enjoy the story.

 

Sadly you make it sound like none of this was possible nor happened without all this MMO knowledge.... OH WAIT....

 

Bioware needs to continue to do it's own thing and make IT'S MMO vs thinking someone else should.

 

I mean by your comments, they could make this game like SWG... and we all know how that turned out now don't we?

 

As for WoW.... I hope this game never sees a game go to Pandas as a class/race... Pokemon pets to battle as a new idea... and cartoon graphics...that every single building is the same but with a different color or skin... on every land area... again... or rehashed raid instances and bosses that keep coming back in the game... lol.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Iskareot

[Apax]

Am I the only one that can't stand the WoW comparisons? Every posts has 10+ people saying WoW has less bugs, or a more feature rich system. Just stop you can't compare an MMO with 1 month of live game time to one that has had years of fine tuning and work done on it.

 

Are the two products offering the an online MMO service for exactly the same monthly subscription fee?

 

If yes, then you can fairly make the comparison between the two products.

 

You're suggesting that one of these products should be "cut some slack" because the other has had more time to implement features. In that case, don't you think it's a bit odd that the lesser developed product is charging the same monthly subscription fee as its much further developed competition?

 

Some would say that if you charge the big-boy prices, you have to deal with the big-boy criticisms and comparisons. (shrug) If SWToR were only charging $9 a month, I know I'd be like "Well, it'd be nice if SWToR had feature-X like WoW does, but then again, we're only paying $9 a month instead of $15 like the players in WoW are". Unfortunately for your argument, they're charging exactly the same fees without providing exactly the same quality of product.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Apax

[titanmike]

Am I the only one that can't stand the WoW comparisons?

This game is a MMO, it is competing with all other MMOS (F2P or P2P) like it or not.

 

Just stop you can't compare an MMO with 1 month of live game time to one that has had years of fine tuning and work done on it.

When TOR and every other mmo are not competing for subs then I could see not comparing them.

 

TOR is out NOW, it is competing with the WOW, RIFT and others of NOW.

[barwnKesteven]

Am I the only one that can't stand the WoW comparisons? Every posts has 10+ people saying WoW has less bugs, or a more feature rich system. Just stop you can't compare an MMO with 1 month of live game time to one that has had years of fine tuning and work done on it.

 

SWTOR for me has had an insanely good start and should keep getting better. Sure there could be stumbles like the Ilum issue but they are not abandoning people. And all you people that have to have everything now should grow up! It's called patience there are plenty of other things to do in this great game to keep you busy until issues are resolved.

 

Nonsense, absolutely you can compare. (Disclosure: I've never played WoW.) This is a product/service just like any other and if you release a product into a market that has an established competitor, you will inevitably (and rightly) be compared to it. You may get a small pass for being new but how does one expect to win in the marketplace if they're not doing x, y and z as well as the competition?

 

The fact is that any time anyone releases or enhances a product or service that you compete with, the bar you have to clear to succeed is raised.

 

I will do you a favor and not compare this to WoW - because I can't - but I will compare it to Aion, Rift, Eve, AoC and other MMOs I've played. The logistics of this launch has been quite good - the server queue issue was about the worst thing. I like the leveling and story-telling component much better than other games. But when I compare certain quality of life items (e.g., the UI), I can't help but find it lacking.

 

People are going to compare the game to whatever they think is appropriate and, ultimately, if you choose to compare the game to, I don't know, a toaster, why should it be any skin off anyone else's back?

[Iskareot]

Are the two products offering the an online MMO service for exactly the same monthly subscription fee?

 

If yes, then you can fairly make the comparison between the two products.

 

You're suggesting that one of these products should be "cut some slack" because the other has had more time to implement features. In that case, don't you think it's a bit odd that the lesser developed product is charging the same monthly subscription fee as its much further developed competition?

 

Some would say that if you charge the big-boy prices, you have to deal with the big-boy criticisms and comparisons. (shrug) If SWToR were only charging $9 a month, I know I'd be like "Well, it'd be nice if SWToR had feature-X like WoW does, but then again, we're only paying $9 a month instead of $15 like the players in WoW are". Unfortunately for your argument, they're charging exactly the same fees without providing exactly the same quality of product.

 

 

Well, this was funny. FYI I charge 15.00 a month for you to use a stick figure and play me in hangman.

 

Just saying...

[Quaade]

I think that's a dead horse your beating...

 

People will forever and ever compare every MMO to WoW ... it's just how it is. WoW IMO is nothing special and it wasn't even the first MMO so I have no idea why the Wow-tards come out to play so often.

 

WoW is nothing special in your eyes, however for a lot of people it's a game where they can log in if they have an hour and actually get things done and there are a lot more people who max have an hour a day than those who can set aside 10 hours in different intervals troughout the week. It's those people you want to catch and keep as subscribers.

 

I notice a lot of people are advocating against an LFG tool on the basis it makes it a lobby game. WoW introduced it and it actually reduced the lobby feel.

The player can go into the world and work on other things while waiting in queue. The people who sit in a major city in WoW are those who wants to, not those who are forced to.

 

In TOR, the people who sit in major cities are those who are forced to, in order to participate in running flashpoints.

 

In WoW, a player can log in, press a button, see how long they have to wait on average and decide if it's worth their time and then do something else while waiting.

In TOR, a player can log in, hit enter, write "<Role> looking for <Flashpoint>" hit enter and repeat the process ad nauseum untill such a time luck shines upon them.

 

And if a player only has 1 hour, guess what option they prefer.

[mcfabulous]

Let me ask you this.

 

Say you used to use an old razor (you know those switch blade looking ones).

It worked all the time, only had to sharpen it once a month and it didn't cost that much to sharpen it based on the quality of the product.

 

Now say you replaced it with this new electric shaver, but halfway through your shave the battery dies, won't charge, nothing its just this now stagnant piece of broken equipment and you've already tossed the other razor out the window. You could repair it, for around the same price as the other razor, but if it broke this fast who knows how long it will last in the long run.

 

Do you take it back to the store? Probably. Do you complain that you bought a lack luster product that hardly held its own for three days, yet your old razor held up for almost 10 years? Probably.

 

I dislike WoW, but it is a valid comparison to be made.

Edited January 19, 2012 by mcfabulous

[LukeSaberRattler]

Are the two products offering the an online MMO service for exactly the same monthly subscription fee?

 

If yes, then you can fairly make the comparison between the two products.

 

Not sure that holds water they are both MMO games but it doesn't mean they are looking for the exact same audience. That is like comparing a Lexus to an EVO because they cost the same. They are for two very different groups I wouldn't complain that I can't use my lexus in a rally because it lacks the features of the EVO for the same price.

[Krashh]

I think that's a dead horse your beating...

 

People will forever and ever compare every MMO to WoW ... it's just how it is. WoW IMO is nothing special and it wasn't even the first MMO so I have no idea why the Wow-tards come out to play so often.

 

I think it's the case of WoW getting the non MMO masses addicted to the MMO genre. Most of the people at the beginning were fans of Blizzard games and probably never ever played an MMO before. I was one of them.

 

It's inevitable that any new MMO out there will be compared to WoW. Yes WoW has had its bugs. Oh there have been many many bugs and annoying bugs (like invisible crocs that insta kill in Uldum), but WoW got the basics right imho.

 

I know that SWTOR Ability Delay "issue" has been talked about to death, but compared to WoW, the combat in SWTOR is just too damn clunky. It should be crisp. Though, some of the numbers and effect of some abilities on WoW were bugged or wrong (abilities not doing what the tooltip said), the combat was and is crisp in comparison.

 

In WoW, you usually lose a fight, because you did something wrong. In SWTOR you can lose a fight because the Ability Delay effects some fights so much. You should be losing the fight if you screw it up, not because the combat is so damn clunky. I can live through the many bugs, I just want BW to fix the Ability Delay and spells not firing off crap.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Krashh

[barwnKesteven]

Not sure that holds water they are both MMO games but it doesn't mean they are looking for the exact same audience. That is like comparing a Lexus to an EVO because they cost the same. They are for two very different groups I wouldn't complain that I can't use my lexus in a rally because it lacks the features of the EVO for the same price.

 

You're telling me that with EA investing as much money as it did that if we drew a Venn diagram of potential WoW (or other MMO) subscribers and potential SW:ToR subscribers there would be little to no overlap? I mean, its EA so anything is possible but that seems to me a very high risk business plan from which to invest a hundred million dollars or so.

 

Maybe, just seems unlikely.

[Apax]

Not sure that holds water they are both MMO games but it doesn't mean they are looking for the exact same audience. That is like comparing a Lexus to an EVO because they cost the same. They are for two very different groups I wouldn't complain that I can't use my lexus in a rally because it lacks the features of the EVO for the same price.

 

I think you're splitting hairs. They're both looking for a theme-park style MMO audience. Most MMO gamers are not fantasy-only or sci fi-only. You're attempting to create an excuse for this game by suggesting it makes sense for it to offer less basic MMO features than the competition because it isn't fantasy based like they are. What does being fantasy based have to do with having adequate customer support, or offering a customizable UI, or a working search function, or a forum that doesn't go down every time they patch the servers?

Edited January 19, 2012 by Apax

[Quaade]

This game was built around Knights of the Old Republic which used the same combat system currently SWTOR. They could have changed it but why do that when KOTOR was so successful the way it was. This is KOTOR with MMO interactions added in. Which I love I guess you have to actual like games to be more than just killing other peoples characters over and over again at lvl 50. Story drives every game purchase I make. Once I hit lvl 50 with each character type I won't be sticking around for PvP.

 

Then I'm happy I didn't play KoTOR because I'd had gone absolutely mental. Then again, the main antagonist in both are wielding lightsabers, yes? And hot key combat works well on melee type combat since it's "bash button=bash enemy." However, when it comes to gun use, using the left mouse button as a trigger is more intuituve.

 

And no, it wasn't about "only killing players at lvl 50" it was about actually using some of the things in the game.

At lvl 50 on Ilum, there's what, 8 daily quests? I didn't count them. And they are all done the same way, find mobs, kill mobs using your gun/sword/force power.

 

And this is in a game that's littered with turrents, vehicles, robots, fighterplanes and other kind of technology. I should not be limited to doing my daily quests, or ALL my quests for that matter, with just my gun.

Where's a daily quest to call in airstrikes, or use a walker to plow trough infantry or manning a turret to kill enemies. I know they can do the later since they do it in Colocoid War Games, however it's poorly realised since they are just on autofire.

 

Bringing up the game whose very name will start a thousand angry messages, you do different things there in daily quests and questing for that matter. You use gadget, you fly on drakes, drive tanks, uses gun turrent, you perform bombing runs, picks up things that affects you in wierd ways, ect.

 

Bottom line is that due to the way that WoW uses the technology that's lorewise in the game, it feels more hightech than TOR does and how messed up is that?

[LukeSaberRattler]

I think you're splitting hairs. They're both looking for a theme-park style MMO audience. Most MMO gamers are not fantasy-only or sci fi-only.

 

When the game was announced they stated they can build an MMO that is story driven. Not redesign the MMO genre so they are looking for RPG players not just MMO players.