PvP unplayable as a Sentinel

[enderandrew]

Am I going too far to suggest that PvP is utterly unplayable as a Sentinel?

 

1. As a melee DPS character, I am literally useless outside of melee range.

2. I can be routinely stunned and killed before reaching melee range. Resolve has a two-minute cool-down, so sometimes I am killed 3-4 times in a row without once reaching range to attack anyone back with no defense possible.

3. Assuming I can get to melee range, some of my better abilities require that I not move to activate them, where as my target only need to step backwards to get out of melee range and render me again completely useless.

4. Melee DPS is not significantly higher damage than ranged DPS to make up for these short-comings.

 

I love SWTOR on the whole. SWTOR excels in story, but arguably long term sustainability of an MMO depends on enjoyable mechanics for after you've completed your story. The disparity between classes/builds in PvP just absolutely baffles me. I believe Bounty Hunters and Troopers can both "run-and-gun" to stay out of range while killing me, but I can't activate abilities while trying to get/stay in range. This is immediately apparent to most players I've spoken to, but apparently not to the PvP team.

 

I was fortunate enough to play in early betas, where I saw the exact same feedback being given in the tester forums. I had hoped these concerns would be addressed before launch. And I've been paying attention to any interviews or posts from developers discussing future development. I've seen no indication these concerns will ever be addressed at this point.

 

PvP wasn't the selling point of the game for me, but it concerns me that such a glaring problem could impact the sustainability of the game with a larger audience.

 

I sincerely hope that my character will be able to get gear on par with the best PvP gear (best in game I've seen so far) via crafting or Operations/Flashpoints so that I'm not forced to play PvP at end-game.

[jediharrsion]

Am I going too far to suggest that PvP is utterly unplayable as a Sentinel?

 

1. As a melee DPS character, I am literally useless outside of melee range.

2. I can be routinely stunned and killed before reaching melee range. Resolve has a two-minute cool-down, so sometimes I am killed 3-4 times in a row without once reaching range to attack anyone back with no defense possible.

3. Assuming I can get to melee range, some of my better abilities require that I not move to activate them, where as my target only need to step backwards to get out of melee range and render me again completely useless.

4. Melee DPS is not significantly higher damage than ranged DPS to make up for these short-comings.

 

I love SWTOR on the whole. SWTOR excels in story, but arguably long term sustainability of an MMO depends on enjoyable mechanics for after you've completed your story. The disparity between classes/builds in PvP just absolutely baffles me. I believe Bounty Hunters and Troopers can both "run-and-gun" to stay out of range while killing me, but I can't activate abilities while trying to get/stay in range. This is immediately apparent to most players I've spoken to, but apparently not to the PvP team.

 

I was fortunate enough to play in early betas, where I saw the exact same feedback being given in the tester forums. I had hoped these concerns would be addressed before launch. And I've been paying attention to any interviews or posts from developers discussing future development. I've seen no indication these concerns will ever be addressed at this point.

 

PvP wasn't the selling point of the game for me, but it concerns me that such a glaring problem could impact the sustainability of the game with a larger audience.

 

I sincerely hope that my character will be able to get gear on par with the best PvP gear (best in game I've seen so far) via crafting or Operations/Flashpoints so that I'm not forced to play PvP at end-game.

 

PvP shouldn't be unplayable as a sentinel you should be doing just fine. I Speak from experiance becouse i play as a Jedi Sage

[enderandrew]

Can you explain to me how it is balanced or fair that I don't do more damage than a ranged DPS, but I am literally useless outside of melee range?

 

Isn't that a pretty massive disadvantage that I need to find a way to get into, and stay in melee range of a target, especially given that I can't activate many abilities while moving?

 

I'm not sure how playing as a Sage (ranged class) gives you insight into playing a Sentinel.

Edited January 19, 2012 by enderandrew

[Inihise]

I'm a sentinel man and I been rocking it. Especially now since the 50's are out of warzones. Also gear plays a big factor. It IS the toughest profession ion my opinion, but when you learn it, you will do massive damage. Keep at it. Try diffrent things. Getting stuck does suck, but you got roots of your own. Root them.Force Leap, Precision strike, master strike, and force stasis. All you need to do to work about half the health off. Throw on a DOT and wail away.

[Junebugs]

I play marauder which is pretty much the same and i do fine maybe it just isnt the class for you or you are wrong spec

[dannomite]

While you make some valid points (other than suggesting melee damage should be higher than ranged since that would harm pve), it's not unplayable. The class has a lot of defensive cooldowns and lends itself to being healed. If you're getting burned down, then you might need to pick your spots better.

[strakt]

You just don't know how to play your class properly. I've seen AMAZING marauders such as Stamp and Kalinda.

 

Kalinda

 

 

stmp

 

http://www.twitch.tv/stmp ( he streams like at 2pm est)

 

 

Watch them and learn as marauder is the hardest and most complex class to play.

[Caeliux]

Am I going too far to suggest that PvP is utterly unplayable as a Sentinel?

 

1. As a melee DPS character, I am literally useless outside of melee range.

2. I can be routinely stunned and killed before reaching melee range. Resolve has a two-minute cool-down, so sometimes I am killed 3-4 times in a row without once reaching range to attack anyone back with no defense possible.

3. Assuming I can get to melee range, some of my better abilities require that I not move to activate them, where as my target only need to step backwards to get out of melee range and render me again completely useless.

4. Melee DPS is not significantly higher damage than ranged DPS to make up for these short-comings.

 

Weird, cause this guys would tell you to L2P..

 

Your mirror the Marauder

 

Sentinel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuszFOkORVg

 

Yep.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Caeliux

[Zehf]

Man this thread is enlightening...

 

As a melee DPS, you have to be in melee range to DPS?!?!

 

Now I get it.

[enderandrew]

I play marauder which is pretty much the same and i do fine maybe it just isnt the class for you or you are wrong spec

 

Out of curiosity, which spec of Sentinel will allow me to do damage outside of melee range, use my abilities while moving, or prevent me from being killed and stunned before reaching melee range?

 

No one has directly addressed my enumerated concerns. Simply stating that a Sentinel can in theory cause damage doesn't change anything I've said.

 

If Imperial players are stupid enough to let me reach them, and they stand still, then I can cause damage. But that doesn't change the inherit disadvantages, which are very significant. If these disadvantages were offset by making melee DPS that much stronger than ranged DPS, that might address the issue.

[Sowwy]

I play a powertech. He's earned valor rank battlemaster, hes in a mix of BM and champ gear, and is generally the scourge of the warzones. I consider myself an above average pvp player. Though I understand the scoundrel and sage complaining, I personally don't have any problems with them and I twist troopers into pretzels.

 

I avoid the well geared sentinals on my server at all cost. They chew through my defenses without trouble. I hope this reassures you, because its not a joke. I hate fighting sents.

 

Swtor is more paper rock scissors then it appears, at first.

 

Be more discriminating between targets and avoid the classes that give you trouble.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Sowwy

[speedracerlo]

I am a sentinel and although I do feel your pain in regards to the lack of love our class gets from the devs, I don't have too much trouble doing my part in a teamwork oriented battle. I'm fairing quite damn well against all classes. If you have a bad team, you will suck.

[Surfiehbk]

Man this thread is enlightening...

 

As a melee DPS, you have to be in melee range to DPS?!?!

 

Now I get it.

 

You're an idiot.

 

Having to be in melee range means that a Sentinel should do more DPS and have more burst than range dps classes. But that's not the case.

 

And in Ilum, if you're melee, you're screwed since everyone forms two huge groups and if you want to engage as a melee you will be killed in seconds. It's just range taking shots at eachother.

[Wyiizek]

Can you explain to me how it is balanced or fair that I don't do more damage than a ranged DPS, but I am literally useless outside of melee range?

 

Isn't that a pretty massive disadvantage that I need to find a way to get into, and stay in melee range of a target, especially given that I can't activate many abilities while moving?

 

I'm not sure how playing as a Sage (ranged class) gives you insight into playing a Sentinel.

 

by many abilities you mean master strike and stasis?

 

i'm a bm sent and while they are late bloomers, sents are anything but nonviable and underpowered. they have some issues like ability stuttering and such that should be addressed. Ataru's runspeed buff apparently doesn't work but on the whole the class is fine imo.

 

Resolve doesn't have a cooldown, look at Rome-fu's guide stickied at the top to get an idea of how resolve works. But yes, many of us are no stranger to the fact that we are dead before it fills up! The key is to choose your fights wisely, this involves many factors like the AC of ur opponent, their health level, how many enemies and allies are around, your health, what CDs you have up, etc. As you get closer to 50 (I'm assuming you're not 50 yet) you will have more tools to escape fights not going well, too.

 

I need not say it, but always slow your opponent right off the bat with the leg slash or the talented cauterize slow. LoS when possible, force camo vs ranged if needed (get it at lv 30), use defensive CDs, don't force leap into the fight if you can start it without force leaping, that way when they knock you back you can leap in immediately.

 

I find that if you go gung-ho after a sorcerer who keeps knocking you back and running away, it's sometimes not a good idea depending. If you really want to kill someone and all they're doing is running, don't chase and get tunnel visioned (even if you're winning the match and farming on huttball or something), engage another opponent and after 30 seconds or so find him again. In WZs there is a lot going on so it's easy to catch your opponent unawares, and this is a large advantage. It's possible largely b/c of force leap, too.

[Caeliux]

You're an idiot.

 

Having to be in melee range means that a Sentinel should do more DPS and have more burst than range dps classes. But that's not the case.

 

And in Ilum, if you're melee, you're screwed since everyone forms two huge groups and if you want to engage as a melee you will be killed in seconds. It's just range taking shots at eachother.

 

I see now, it's Illum that makes the class suck.

 

Ok buddy.

[SpiritofSWTOR]

Root them. Force Leap, Precision strike, master strike, and force stasis. All you need to do to work about half the health off. Throw on a DOT and wail away.

 

Totally agree. What he said. Become his Padawan.

 

Sheesh. Force Leap is a jump-up-jump-down-***-outta-nowhere-get-you-into-melee-range-insta. Back off to 10m and do it again!

 

[Inihise]

You have to pick your spots. Lately I been using camoflage to get close. My spec on master strike makes them imobile. You also have a leg slash that slows them. You may want to use force leap and spec to get zealous leap. They are going to root you. You have a shield pop that and survive and force leap to them. There are a bunch of diffrent ways. In fact I think there is a way that camoflage lets you released from any type of root. Your not going to stop every one.

 

Sentinel is not a jump in the middle and kill everybody template. I do do that sometimes when I'm running a premade with a healer and a commando that can do the protect buff that they do. I jump in the middle dps and let my temamates clean up the scraps.

 

This is a hard template. you just have to learn how to play it.

[Sufferr]

I have both a shadow and a sentinel on 50, i really enjoy PvPing for it is the main reason i play this and i love online gaming competition..

 

I did hit 50 on my sentinel a few days ago.. and comparing to my shadow consular..

damn, sentinels look really weak...

Then I started to ask other sentinel players and other experienced Players/PvPers and one thing i heard alot was "It seems sentinels are really gear-dependent"..

 

I wonder what's actually gonna change as i get better gear.. since i have trouble getting the 2.5k crit badge and on my consular i can get the 5k crit one easily (more when there were lowbies, but now it's still optainable by me)..

 

If you look at the spec. talent trees, at least for PvP... ugh i don't feel like getting into details right now.. but they could sure use some tweaks..

 

as a small last example, my consular has at least 4 abilities that can hit over 3k, and my sentinel has 1, and the other ones barely hit over 1k crits..

 

(Just as an FYI I am giving numbers from when my consular was fresh 50, decently geared already, but fresh 50)

[enderandrew]

You just don't know how to play your class properly. I've seen AMAZING marauders such as Stamp and Kalinda.

 

Kalinda

 

 

stmp

 

http://www.twitch.tv/stmp ( he streams like at 2pm est)

 

 

Watch them and learn as marauder is the hardest and most complex class to play.

 

Please explain how there isn't an inherit disadvantage when I can be attacked at range, but can't attack back. The natural way to address this disadvantage is to make melee DPS more powerful (especially as burst DPS). Given that ranged DPS can cause just as much damage, both in sustained and burst, then how is melee DPS remotely on the same playing field?

 

Saying that certain players can overcome the limitations doesn't mean the limitations don't exist. Your argument is ad hominem. You criticize my playing ability as a means to counter my contention that the classes aren't balanced. What no one has done in this thread is explain from a pure logic/mechanic standpoint how these classes can be seen as balanced, because they are not.

[Ramladon]

I understand where you are comming from. I have no issue as a warrior in wz but, in illum when it is 30+ vs 30+ it is pretty hard for you to get any valor when the only move you have is a saber throw that you can only do every 30 sec.

 

Even if you leap to the other grp aoe burn all defensive cd's being a tank I have even more you will still die.

 

Gear isn't an issue in this prospect either considering I have full champion gear and 18k health.

[Surfiehbk]

No one can logically argue against your since that's the way the game should be balanced.

 

Melee should have more burst and dps than ranged classes.

 

Or put a minimum range on all of a range classes abilities.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Surfiehbk

[Zehf]

You're an idiot.

 

Having to be in melee range means that a Sentinel should do more DPS and have more burst than range dps classes. But that's not the case.

 

And in Ilum, if you're melee, you're screwed since everyone forms two huge groups and if you want to engage as a melee you will be killed in seconds. It's just range taking shots at eachother.

 

Name a ranged class that can consistently get 5k+ crits?

 

We have way more burst. L2Spec

[Crowingzero]

Force Leap would be great if this game didn't have 437 knockbacks.

[dannomite]

Force leap + slow them

 

If you're carnage (Ataru Form spec - no clue what the Sent version is), lightsaber throw (immobilizes them), force scream/Master strike(?) (not long range but it's more forgiving them melee) Force stasis will halt them, so having to stop won't matter. If you're complaining about 2 on 1, then sorry you're not going to be OP enough to slaughter people in an unfair fight.

 

Rotate your cooldowns. Throw the hit debuff on cooldown. Do your 20 percent reduction cloak whenever you're slowed and about to get nuked. Take the talent that makes riposite lower the remaining cd on 20 percent reduction cloak. You also have your combat stealth to help break their targeting of you... just make sure you have no dots on you.

[Sulay]

Melee dps are the only ones with enough annoyance power for a healer.

 

I can easily nullify a range DPS : hind behind the pillar. I have much more difficulties with melee dps, they tend to stick to me .

 

Regading dps, it is only a matter of gear. Gear is everything in this game (and others).