Aidank Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) It sort of seems like they're supposed to be a way of gauging how well you do in a warzone, but I don't see how that's the case... How does it help my team to have me pop all of my cooldowns, run across a flame pit, and then get a 5k crit heal? Why is getting a solo kill more beneficial than say, killing the ball carrier? Why should I waste my cds on some under-geared guy with 0 expertise and 12k health just for the 5k hit medal? I think you guys get my point... It's stupid to see some guy with 10k heals and 75k damage who afk'd half the fight get 8 medals (and usually mvp C.C) while the guy with 250k damage who killed the ball carrier 8 times and scored twice gets 5 because instead of trying to farm medals he actually played the game. Edited January 19, 2012 by Aidank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youmu Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Yeah, it's pretty flawed. As a healer I get 3-4 medals if I focus on team-play and completing the objectives. 9-10 medals if I intentionally play bad and go after kills/dmg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidank Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 Yeah, it's pretty flawed. As a healer I get 3-4 medals if I focus on team-play and completing the objectives. 9-10 medals if I intentionally play bad and go after kills/dmg. This too, healers have an even bigger problem here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackKerras Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 This game's incentive system for performance in PvP is excruciatingly poorly designed. The idea of medals is nice. I actively like medals! But if you want people to play a game that has objectives, they need to be relevant. One of the TOR devs must be in the Tribes Ascend beta. Now THERE is a game that uses medals right. Award XP, currency and in-game score (which is an -actual gauge of contribution- as opposed to just a damage number) to those who repair or upgrade base buildings, capture flags, and do other things. The incentive is there, and because the incentive is in the right places, people play the game better. These things should be designed to reward oldfags for doing a great job and to lead newbies through the game's system by the nose. In TOR, it is leading the newbies to kill more people, do more AoE damage and group healing, guard folks, and generally do random things that have nothing to do with Huttballs or bombs or doors or terminals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warkat Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 you only have to break 75k you can easily do that while healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somacharach Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I'd totally be complaining about this too if I could get my damned pvp queue to pop. Seriously, I dinged 50 earlier today and since then I've gotten into ONE warzone and it was 4v8 and lasted 120 seconds until self destructing. I digress though.. I do totally agree with you, the system is screwy.. there's no reward for the guy who gets into position to catch a great pass in hutball (and subsequently no reward for the guy who threw the incredible pass half a second before he died). There's no reward for using Extricate to get a ball carrier out of a group of baddies to the goal line.. those are game changing moves but they go unrewarded and unnoticed by the system. The guy who stands alone at the left gun and calls out incomings, then holds them off until reinforcements can arrive.. he gets nothing but he very well could have saved the game. I understand there's no real way of the game recognizing performance like this, but the current medal system is almost doing more harm than good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdi_knght Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 As you've noticed, medals don't relate well to the objectives. It's been brought up many times. Been in many huttball games where our guildie who scored all 6 points had 0 medals. He could pull off 8 medals instead, but we usually have to carry so we'd lose the game if he went for medals. I've also been in a number of VS games where I pulled out more medals than anyone, including the 300k damage and 75k healing (on a Sentinel). Usually the other team is off capping our bridge while I'm still in the 1st room picking off somebody for my solo kill. Suffice it to say, medals aren't an accurate gauge of performance. Often times, the person with the most medals is a detriment to the team (that would be me in the above case). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidank Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 As you've noticed, medals don't relate well to the objectives. It's been brought up many times. Been in many huttball games where our guildie who scored all 6 points had 0 medals. He could pull off 8 medals instead, but we usually have to carry so we'd lose the game if he went for medals. I've also been in a number of VS games where I pulled out more medals than anyone, including the 300k damage and 75k healing (on a Sentinel). Usually the other team is off capping our bridge while I'm still in the 1st room picking off somebody for my solo kill. Suffice it to say, medals aren't an accurate gauge of performance. Often times, the person with the most medals is a detriment to the team (that would be me in the above case). This is another problem, We have a juggernaut in our guild who's job is basically to stand in the pit, receive passes, and charge into their score zone. While arguable being the most important person on our team he rarely receives more than 2-3 medals. Neither does the guy passing to him. I guess you could say that the medal system is almost an incentive to play badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenehuini Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I'd totally be complaining about this too if I could get my damned pvp queue to pop. Seriously, I dinged 50 earlier today and since then I've gotten into ONE warzone and it was 4v8 and lasted 120 seconds until self destructing. I digress though.. I do totally agree with you, the system is screwy.. there's no reward for the guy who gets into position to catch a great pass in hutball (and subsequently no reward for the guy who threw the incredible pass half a second before he died). There's no reward for using Extricate to get a ball carrier out of a group of baddies to the goal line.. those are game changing moves but they go unrewarded and unnoticed by the system. The guy who stands alone at the left gun and calls out incomings, then holds them off until reinforcements can arrive.. he gets nothing but he very well could have saved the game. I understand there's no real way of the game recognizing performance like this, but the current medal system is almost doing more harm than good. In battle for alderaan players camping the side points get defense points quite quickly. If you manage to beat 3-5 players around a point you should be able to get the 3k defense points medal. So you are looking at: 2.5k hit killing blow solo kill 1k defense points 3k defense points if the gun is under longer siege you can also get 10 kills and 75k damage easily, along with at least 5k protect just from AoE taunting. I'm usually defending side points on my assassin, and i'm regularly getting called out as invincible by the game (5 medals w/o dying). But I agree that in hutball the objective of the game is pretty much in direct contradiction with the activity that actually rewards you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdi_knght Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) I guess you could say that the medal system is almost an incentive to play badly. To an extent, sure. Really, they need to start adding medals for objective-based things, and it'll help alleviate the problem. Few examples... Huttball: -Medals for successful passes (maybe a medal at 1, 3, 10 passes for example). -Medals for successful scores (1 or 2 for each). -Medal for __k damage on opposing ball carriers. -Medal for __k healing on ball carriers. -Medals for successful intercepts (at some sort of intervals) (ideally you'd find a way to reward CC'ing or killing the guy healing the carrier, pulling or knocking off a carrier, etc, but those would probably be too difficult to implement) Alderaan: -More defender points for sitting at a node even if it's not attacked (perhaps divide the gain by the number of people to keep 4 players from sitting at an empty node). Add a few additional medals beyond the 3k for this so that somebody who babysits a node the entire game doesn't feel slighted. -Medal for successful assault. -Medal for issuing a CC in an area where a teammate successfully assaults (CC must take place during the assault timer). -Medal for interrupts on cappers (perhaps a medal at 1, 5, 15, 25 interrupts). -"Attacker" points of some sort (gained if you're in the area when your team successfully assaults the node) Voidstar: -Defender points for sitting near an empty door even if it's not being attacked (add a huge penalty to gain if more than 1 is sitting at the empty door). -Medal for each successful assault that explodes. -Medals for successful assuaults that are disarmed (perhaps at 1, 3, 5, 10 intervals). -Medals for each successful disarm (similar intervals). -Medals for interrupting somebody trying to assault/disarm (perhaps at 1, 5, 15, 25 intervals) Again, just examples (and some may be quite bad - these are off the top of my head) but *most* of them shouldn't be too tough to implement. Finding the right balance would be the toughest. Also not saying to do away with the current medals - just add objective-related ones, and make them enticing. The bonuses for medals would probably have to be nerfed though, since you'd probably be looking at something in the neighborhood of 15-20 obtainable medals per game - it'd have to be brought in line with the current bonuses for the 7-9 medal range. Edited January 19, 2012 by jdi_knght Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordredz Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Yeah, it's pretty flawed. As a healer I get 3-4 medals if I focus on team-play and completing the objectives. 9-10 medals if I intentionally play bad and go after kills/dmg. Odd i do around 300k healing ontop of doing my killing/dmg medals and my teams still topped off/fine, L2multitask... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordredz Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 This game's incentive system for performance in PvP is excruciatingly poorly designed. The idea of medals is nice. I actively like medals! But if you want people to play a game that has objectives, they need to be relevant. One of the TOR devs must be in the Tribes Ascend beta. Now THERE is a game that uses medals right. Award XP, currency and in-game score (which is an -actual gauge of contribution- as opposed to just a damage number) to those who repair or upgrade base buildings, capture flags, and do other things. The incentive is there, and because the incentive is in the right places, people play the game better. These things should be designed to reward oldfags for doing a great job and to lead newbies through the game's system by the nose. In TOR, it is leading the newbies to kill more people, do more AoE damage and group healing, guard folks, and generally do random things that have nothing to do with Huttballs or bombs or doors or terminals. The design is new and fun, and its not that hard to maximize your medals if your not a no skill bad, if you are then you make a QQ post here like this guy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apeth Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Agree with the OP here. You can tag two doors/turrets or score a goal in hutball and get nothing. Im normally getting 5 ish medals and I see people with 8/9 who have not bothered playing the game and helping to win the match. Keep it as it is but add medals for tagging doors/turrets and scring goals. Maybe also disarming bombs and killing ball handlers a certain distance from your goal line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarrySachx Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 A solution which would, properly fix the issue where ppl go for medals instead of objectives Would be to remove the medals all together and rate the amount of commendations a player receives by sheer warzone performance done. The would make it worthwhile for healer to heal, and for tanks to stack up protection numbers. There is of course a chance that this can be abused to gain above average rewards. But this can be “mostly” removed by prioritizing say 3-4 warzone performance numbers and adding them together to calculate a fair amount of valor and commendations. Rewards will also be different according to the stat with gets into the prioritizing, like objective points and protection tend to be much lower than say damage and healing done. So It can actually be worthwhile protecting the objective which the zerg fest is not on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikodeamas Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) It's been brought up many times. I keep hearing this exact phrase on so many issues. Interesting. Edited January 19, 2012 by Nikodeamas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordredz Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Agree with the OP here. You can tag two doors/turrets or score a goal in hutball and get nothing. Im normally getting 5 ish medals and I see people with 8/9 who have not bothered playing the game and helping to win the match. Keep it as it is but add medals for tagging doors/turrets and scring goals. Maybe also disarming bombs and killing ball handlers a certain distance from your goal line. Same stuff brought up, guess what? the game is almost 1 month out of being released so tag the other threads already made weeks ago and stop CRYING... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angaurath Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 - Eliminate medals ENTIRELy as a mechanical reward. - Mechanical reward should go to the TEAM that wins. - Incentivize teamplay, and you get good team play. - Incentivize e-peen stroking, and you get a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 - Eliminate medals ENTIRELy as a mechanical reward. - Mechanical reward should go to the TEAM that wins. - Incentivize teamplay, and you get good team play. - Incentivize e-peen stroking, and you get a mess. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youmu Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) Odd i do around 300k healing ontop of doing my killing/dmg medals and my teams still topped off/fine, L2multitask... Anecdotal trash like that is useless. I rarely see anyone get 300k healing, it's often more in the 100k-150k range. Longer games which are somewhat more rare can see the occasional 300k healing break. The games just last too short time if it's one of those steamroll cases like they used to be. DPS has no problems getting their medals in those situations, healers do, unless they specifically go for them. Edited January 19, 2012 by Youmu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulvark Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Medals dont actually track correctly anyhow. I have had solo kills, deathblows, etc and not have em show up... they are useless for the most part. As irritating as it would be (since i am normally on the losing team) would rather they make rewards go to the winning team and the losing team gets nothing. It would take care of the "I can kill more then you" people and people would actually try to complete the objectives to gain the rewards. (I know... most people would be "aggresively" against this but it sucks to be working towards your dailies while 90% of you group grounds the ball intentionally so they can kill the ball carrier instead or trying to score) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordredz Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Anecdotal trash like that is useless. I rarely see anyone get 300k healing, it's often more in the 100k-150k range. Longer games which are somewhat more rare can see the occasional 300k healing break. The games just last too short time if it's one of those steamroll cases like they used to be. DPS has no problems getting their medals in those situations, healers do, unless they specifically go for them. Then your on a bad server with horrible players, or your in the newbie bracket, move along... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordredz Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Medals dont actually track correctly anyhow. I have had solo kills, deathblows, etc and not have em show up... they are useless for the most part. As irritating as it would be (since i am normally on the losing team) would rather they make rewards go to the winning team and the losing team gets nothing. It would take care of the "I can kill more then you" people and people would actually try to complete the objectives to gain the rewards. (I know... most people would be "aggresively" against this but it sucks to be working towards your dailies while 90% of you group grounds the ball intentionally so they can kill the ball carrier instead or trying to score) Then you would never get anything since you lose all the time? brillant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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