I wont be able to post in a few hours and id like to make my review post here. I will be mainly posting from a perspective of someone that enjoys PvE, and PvP very, very much in any game i play. I was very, very excited for this game. Given my experience with previous games i would like to say that with MMORPGs a game has it or it doesnt. Im not talking about whos overpowered, or which faction is imbalanced, or how boring endgame is. Im talking about fluid, crisp, combat. When you use a skill it works. When you are within range of something you are within range of something. My FPS and my ping and my rig are all at acceptable levels and fine. It just feels like im running in 2 feet of mud. Sometimes things work. Sometimes things are delayed. And then sometimes things are REALLY DELAYED and then... sometimes.. things dont even work at all. Then, there is an issue of when around 10-12 players are onscreen, or, im involved in heavy melee (95% of the time) there seems to be the problem i stated above, and something else funky going on, that im not technically gifted enough to describe. The above problems i have listed, every single player has to deal with. Its not a pvp or a pve or a factional problem. Its a fundamental game problem. Needs top priority over anything else. Zip, zilch, zero. Content. Balancing. Nothing. Its needed for the survival of the game. Unfortunately, having seen this exact problem before in a few select other games, i am not as optimistic as many players here believing there will *ever* be a fix to what we are calling "Ability Delay". Its in the engine. The foundation, if you will. Unfortunately, due to decisions made before i even logged into the game world on December 18th? i would encounter numerous, sometimes embarassing, almost offensive other issues and problems. I wasnt fortunate, i actually chose "The Republic" for my experience. For example; 1. Uneven/Unfair Mirroring -Video proof. Multiple 100+ page threads. In every single instance (and there are many) it benefits one side; the imperials. I will not list every example here, Google it for yourself if you arent already enlightened. I wonder how in yet every single example that can be proven, it only benefits one side. Murphys law? Coincidence? Favortism? Who the hell knows, as a member of "The Republic" with no comment from BioWare, you can only guess at best. The real part that stings, is pure admission from *beta* players that this was mentioned and complained about numerous times long, long, long ago in beta.............. 2. Unfair either deliberate or accidental Warzone Scoring System -Although a friend said its fixed now, i cannot confirm, for the majority of my "experience" the last month in the best Warzone in the game, we have had to deal with constant scoring "bugs". While some will will say it didnt really matter, although i feel it does, it just added more fuel to the fire of feeling like the enemy has it easier, or more of that "uneven" unfairness. 3. Absolutely awful factional balance -Everyone says the game is built on story. "The story experience". Again, im not going to list specific examples, but just compare Smuggler to Agent, or Jedi to Sith. Its just not even comparable. When compared, the Republic story is quite boring and too "do goody". Breaking up romances and being a taddle tail............fun. Compared to playing a sith lord? Once again, Republic loses if play for story and cinematic, in my honest opinion. With zero action from BioWare, and a whole 22 rebels on the fleet last night at midnight in my server, id say this has an effect as well. Give any republic class a few hours and any imperial class a few hours and i think you might agree. A boring story, mixed with multiple experienced beta level 50 sith within ONLY DAY(S) of live servers, unfair mirroring right out of the game... just starting to turn into not so fun experience. At the very minimum, Imperial character creation should start being limited where needed, untill there is a slight, slight resemblance of balance. Normally this would "balance out" because Imperials would get bored and naturally roll republic for faster queue times and more PvP just like in every other single game ever released. However, in *this* game, they can just farm each other in Huttball, trading wins the first few weeks due to secrets learned in beta, and absolutely outlevel and out gear any competition for the first 30+ days. This doesnt only suck because we are outnumbered. This also sucks because there just arent very many republic to even play or group up with. Its a severe problem that is going to also hurt this game, that in my opinion, is 100% ignored by developers. 4. Skill/Ability/Resting Animations and Item Graphics -While another not so important to some, extremely, over the top, very important to a player like myself. Just because i chose one side, i do feel as a paying member i have access to the same amount of fine tuning, polish, and imagination. 5. Clear *Constructive* player advice on Test Server forum ignored (beta and patch 1.1) The exact problem that has taken place the last few days has lead to quite a conundrum. We all know im speaking of Ilum and the unfairness that has taken place, once again, accidentally benefiting the Empire once again. Multiple threads from many players described exactly to the "T" what would happen if patch was released and guess what? Anyone noticing a problem? Oops? The vast, vast (of the few) majority of "The Republic" will grind for months of PvP before they will even be anywhere near close to the type of gear that a very large portion of Imps/sith are wearing now. An absolute *huge* disparity in gear and valor rank due to straight up being outnumbered. Once again, noticing a pattern, the final nail in the coffin (for myself) to just not subscribe. A 2 faction PvP game (like it or not) will not live with 1 faction. Especially when it is riddled with unfairness, bias, and just odd issues throughout the majority of gameplay. This is my honest review of this game at this point, and im not ashamed to say that i will not be paying a subscription at this time. Good Luck to the players that are enjoying themselves and i really hope in the very near future important issues are fixed because i have money im willing to pay for a good game, if it can be provided. My advice to BioWare, if they would take it, is definitely to listen to some of the players on this forum. There are some very smart players here if you are willing to weed through the muck. If not, hire someone to steer the ship in a different direction because i believe the impending cliff isnt as far away as some might think. Final Grade; 5.5/10 (will check once more in the future, probably not again)

I keep hearing this exact phrase on so many issues. Interesting.

Am i the only one that almost gags every time i read an Imperial response like this? Does this nimwit understand this game will crash and burn with only one faction? Of all of the advantages the Imperials have, clear advantages, undisputable documented proof... ....and they still enter threads with this type of attitude. I cannot imagine how obnoxious the majority of them are in RL. It makes me cringe.

Back when this thread was created i actually cared. This game has much bigger problems than shield/absorption being useless in 99.5% of PvP. (which it is)

Edited.

So sad, but so true. Every single person i know that started has already quit. I wonder if its coincidence we were all Republic. Heads will roll over this game, im all but certain. I bet its one of the last ones to be released way too early, at least. (i hope) I really wanted the game to succeed because im a star wars NUT however this game just plain and simply isnt what was advertised as far as PvP goes...and the PvE isnt anything to brag on either.......not even close lol. I hope Bioware wakes up soon and address certain issues (that really dont need to be listed...again) but im sure some happy Imperial will chime in and tell us all how wonderful the game is... To be clear i didnt cancel my account because of yesterdays exploit alone, it was that and all of the other total B.S. that comes along with choosing the Republic in this game. I dont want to be rude to Bioware but ill kindly just say no thanks and watch the house of cards start to fall. And they are falling, dont fool yourself.

Ive already cancelled, but this post gives me goosebumps none the less.

Im not exactly sure what you mean, but if you mean all of the actual developers have admitted to playing Empire only i can only say im not suprised in the slightest. I stayed away from this game. Deleted my beta invite. I wanted it to be fresh and fun. Out of all of the excrement i have purchased in the last few years that were labled as an "mmo" this one has to be one of the sloppiest most expensive turds ive ever seen in my life.

I canceled as well. Todays debacle isnt the only reason im not going to subscribe. Playing as a Republic isnt fun. From one end of this game to the other. From faction imbalance to unequal mirrors to every single "accident" benefiting the Empire and not the Republic. Honestly, what kind of schmuck would pay monthly for this? I hope the Empire are enjoying themselves. The majority of the republic has been ***farmed*** for weeks. Repeatedly by BETA players that all rolled sith in live because they knew of the obvious imbalances that had yet to reach the masses. From class polish to actual faction balance, its total bull ****. Republic players (the few of us left) stayed, and still queued because we have (had) hopes that this was just an amateur oversight that would be quickly remedied by any dev with common sense and a pulse... So, while we are being farmed for weeks, with **zero** comment on faction imbalance or even factional mirror imbalance (that only benefits one side mind you) as soon as this patch is released the Empire gets even more handouts... max valor.. in 1 day.... while the republic has been farmed for weeks earning every single point of valor. Rollback or no rollback, who would pay for this? Once again, hope the Empire enjoys their MMO because within 90 days there will only be 1 faction left anyways. Every single person i know in RL that purchased this game has already quit. 100% dissapointment. and one final note; i was spamming space bar by level 40. The story is quite frankly, boring. Although believe it or not, i hear the Empire story is quite interesting. Im shocked.. to say the least.

As if the Empire needed even more advantages in a game that is designed from the ground up in their favor... now they can max Valor as well....in one day....? While the Republic has been literally *farmed* for weeks? Earning every single point and now this? Cancelled Subscription. Couldnt care less if they rollback or not. Whoever is managing this game is completely amateur and hasnt the slightest clue on what they are doing. And trust me, this was just one more reason to throw on the pile of why i will NOT subscribe to a game in this state. In the future, possibly, but as of right now? Hell i read the forums more than i play the damn game. As a Republic player, its just not fun. At all. From gear graphics to uneven mirrors to uneven skills to cheating warzone score keeping to this debacle of a patch today giving the Empire yet another free ride to fun and victory. Whoever beta tested this game should be ashamed with what we have here. Everyone said SWTOR would change the market forever and they are actually right. However, its not gonna be anywhere near the kind of change they were thinking. Who in the hell would pay for this? Only the brain dead will just zzzzzz reroll imperial. No ty.

As if the Empire needed even more advantages in a game that is designed from the ground up in their favor... now they can max Valor as well....in one day....? While the Republic has been literally *farmed* for weeks? Earning every single point and now this? Cancelled Subscription. Couldnt care less if they rollback or not. Whoever is managing this game is completely amateur and hasnt the slightest clue on what they are doing. And trust me, this was just one more reason to throw on the pile of why i will NOT subscribe to a game in this state. In the future, possibly, but as of right now? Hell i read the forums more than i play the damn game. As a Republic player, its just not fun. At all. From gear graphics to uneven mirrors to uneven skills to cheating warzone score keeping to this debacle of a patch today giving the Empire yet another free ride to fun and victory. Whoever beta tested this game should be ashamed with what we have here. Everyone said SWTOR would change the market forever and they are actually right. However, its not gonna be anywhere near the kind of change they were thinking. Who in the hell would pay for this? Only the brain dead will just zzzzzz reroll imperial. No ty.

I am a SHIELD SPECIALIST. Im not just a shield user! Im a shield ***SPECIALIST***. So special in fact, they dont even WORK in pvp... At least the other guys get lightsabers..... Give me some working shields please!!!! Nerf my mitigation 6-9%. Which, btw, is a fair number. In return, have my shields play a much greater role. My tree is built around it. My gear is utilized for it. It baffles me it doesnt have any substantial effect in PvP whatsoever.

Why? The class is golden, except for this issue. The utility we have is monstrous. Im speaking from a SS Vanguard point of view for PvP. 1. Harpoon 2. Storm (learn it, live it, love it) 3. Interrupt (riot strike or shot or something, im bad with names) 4. Stun (once again, bad with names, grenade, 1 min CD (50 talented) 5. Guard (Fun, but just plain dangerous right now without a healer stuck to you) 6. Taunt (extremely valuable) 7. Area Taunt (completely utterly almost magically valuable) Like said, utility and fun is there. I dont go around 2-3 shotting people... i *crit* for around 1.5-3k usually.. and it has a cooldown. Of course we have rare crit spikes but its not quite so often in full defense gear with zero crit stats.... However, the tradeoff for having low-medium damage as a SS is that im a walking meat house that is designed to suck in damage for whoever im guarding and be able to survive, just survive and put out low medium dps in self defense. I said it in another post and say it again, i see where whoever designed this class was going with it, and its almost there and completely awesome... but... something isnt right. (shields/absorption imo)

Edit, nevermind.

I dont think you will like my answer but.. here goes. Short and sweet? I wouldnt even try to PvP on the van before 30-35 at minimum. If you do, might be frustrating. Its always frustrating imo, but nowhere near as bad as sub 35ish. At your level the damage you're looking for just isnt there. Dunno, just my opinion. If you would really like to at least test the waters, dont try to be a damage dealer. Of course defend yourself and others.. dont just stand around and let people pound on you or nothing. But instead put at least the majority of your attention at; 1. Guarding focus targets. Yes, constantly change your guarded target. Soon, you will only have to hit the key once,(next patch!!) however, for right now, you must hit the key once to actually take it off the last player you put it on (which more than likely is out of range, fighting a 1v1 somewhere) and then you hit the key again to put it on the target currently being focused. Of course you will take lots of damage from this and mitigate some, but shield absolutely zero of it *which a few players are lobbying to be fixed atm* and 2. Immediately after you guard the target that is currently getting beat on, taunt the highest damage dealer within range targeting that target. If there are more than 2, use your area taunt. Keep both of those skills on easily accessed hotkeys, permanently. If you are going to commit to the class, regardless of if you tank or dps. Its very important imo. 3. Stockstrike and High Impact Bolt are going to be your main bread and butter. Examine your talent trees (id go SS, even at your level, but up to you) 4. You said you are level 20, so i expect you have full PvP gear before you came looking for help. If not, go to fleet command and equip yourself. It might appear to be daunting at first, but you can completely gear the level 20 stuff in just one evening with a few decent wins provided you can at least earn 75+ per match (come on, not THAT hard) 5. Biochem, and not only for the "super buffs" you're soon going to learn about (which will be nerfed) Regardless, you have little to zero healing as a Vanguard, get it regardless of possible incoming changes. 6. Im running out of advice, i just know i was level 20 as well and absolutely hated the class. Im still not sold on the class, but it gets a lot better than where you're at now.

Now please compare the dps merc/commando stats to a similarly geared shield spec Vanguard in the the same armor except less crit, and more endurance, defense and shield/absorption. The polarizing damage a commando can put out, with moderate mitigation (and cough small helpful heals) compared to a SS Vanguard with slightly better mit, and zero shielding/absorption and... zero heals. Our gear item budget is spend on things that dont really help. As well as our 97% of the top of our talent tree. Of course this isnt the total issue. The issue effects jedi knight tanks as well as consular tanking, as well as trooper tanking. I feel my shielding and absorption in PvE is so as its on PvP armor, id like to feel it in PvP as well. Just my observation/opinion and i know im not a pro..... yet.

They are tough and if left at range uninterrupted can cause very impressive damage. However, if i was going to make a choice and changes in this game regarding PvP balance, the commando/bh mirror wouldnt even be in the top 5 changes i would list, possible not even 10. They are strong and if left alone (completely 100% alone, seriously) they are great. But come on, can you find ANY other spec shut down harder when you are on them if you play properly? These remarks are made regarding DPS commandos, i cant comment much on healing commandos i dont see many. Also, i dont play a commando.

As i said above i am irritated with my Van, however, everything this player said is 100% true. My annoyance comes from a specific issue that isnt a confirmed bug yet. I hate to say it but, if you do roll a Van, for now, make absolutely sure you choose Biochem and its subsidiaries. In my opinion, and im sure many will disagree.. our utility is mostly (80%+) the only thing keeping us afloat at this time. That doesnt go without saying, our utility? We have lots and lots and lots of it. My problem is, Utility doesnt make you a tank.

I dont expect you to, but if you find my earlier posts in this thread i bring up the TTL/TTK exact issue that you just mentioned. Ive yet to see another player mention it... Only because of the guarding/taunting mechanic are we even percieved as something that must be dealt with. If it wasnt for that, we would be completely ignored and just zerged down last. Our damage is downright laughable, my mitigation is adequate, but my shielding and absorbtion are just completely pathetic. When i see my shield go off in PvP its like a super rare proc... a shame its only a blue circular graphic and i cant even tell it absorbed 25 points of damage much less more, its just another blue flash before my character hits the respawn button. Does anyone ever get the feeling the reason we always go back to the same game isnt because we love it, trust me ewwwwww... but it just plain works. It works. Stats do what they say, not there for fluff. Even Warhammer PvP tanks were better than this. Warhammer ffs.

I hope my constant posting on this issue up untill now, in multiple threads doesnt put off the wrong impression. I really like the game and enjoy my class, but this issue really needs to be resolved. Please.

This. x1000000 Keep leveling the VGs/PTs to 50. You will all agree with this post soon enough. Let me save you the trouble. In my personal opinion, and its mine, all mine. Flame away.. Tanks in this game are nothing but dps with slightly higher health points, and higher armor count. Basically, we are dps that takes 3/4 more GCDs to kill, and we have half the damage of a normal dps. Think about it before you choose this AC, or any other "tank" AC for that matter. Its not just Vanguards/PT with this problem. 60+ page thread of documented and video proof on the PvP forums and zero reply from Bioware. I dont think there has been a 60+ page issue they HAVENT responded to, except this one.

Another i find very interesting, but yet still, NOT the quote im looking for; I quote; The last point where Tanking will have a bigger role than other MMOs is the fact that BioWare is intentionally attempting to gear PvP fights to last longer and avoid ‘one, two, and three-shot battles’ between players. With battles lasting longer by taking less damage/having more HP in general, being a Tank is more rewarding as you’re given more time to work on battle tactics and your class roles will become even more apparent in their usefulness. With these badges, actual statistical benefits for your allies through Tanking abilities, and the fact that PvP battles in general will last longer – there is added and actual incentive to not only playing a Tank in name, but also gearing your playstyle toward that class type as well. It’s a great combination and a step in the right direction to add some flavor for PvP players. /end quote Read the last paragraph again. 3 times if needed. Lemme know if you get my point, please.

Heres another, but yet, not what im looking for, still searching; And i quote; Darth Hater spoke to Lead PvP Designer Gabe Amatangelo about Warzones and character roles in PvP. He had this to say about a couple PvP tanking abilities: If I taunt a player, they are going to do less damage to everyone except for me. And that less damage that they end up delivering -- that difference is going to be tracked on the scoreboard for me. When I guard a player, fifty percent of the damage they receive is redirected to me. And of course, all my heavy armor and avoidance is going to come into play, helping them to survive as well as myself, and all the damage I take on their behalf will be tracked for my rewards at the end of the Warzone. /end quote

Im going to search for the quote now, but as i remember Bioware praised tanking in PvP, and assured us we would be impressed. Of course im paraphrasing. Ill try to find it. Edit; I found one quote, but *not* the one im looking for, still searching; And i quote; Q: What incentives will there be for players to focus on targets outside of the typical “gank the healer” strategy; and how will factors such as burst damage, crowd control and “PvP tanking” play a role in accomplishing this? A: Winning will be the incentive. Attacking the healer will be the right decision sometimes, but not always. A key contributor in ensuring this is the tanks’ Guard and Taunt abilities. Guard will redirect half of the damage through the Tank’s mitigation and avoidance. A taunted target will deliver less damage to everyone but the tauntee. Players will be able to easily visualize which Tanks are guarding and taunting, who their targets are, and when damage is deflected through clear animations and effects. This adds to the dynamics of a skirmish as players of varying skill levels can easily react to and be on their toes about who the real targets of opportunity are and when. Additionally, Tanks will be recognized and rewarded for how much damage they deflect in this fashion on Warzone scoreboards. We have a fairly large health pool to burst damage potential ratio. This allows for burst damage to be useful when the time is right, while not letting it dictate the outcome of all skirmishes. And as far as crowd control goes, there is ‘Resolve.’ Every time a player is crowd controlled they build up Resolve, which is pictured as a bar over the characters head (below the health bar). Once a player’s Resolve Bar is full it changes colors and starts to decay over time, during this they are immune to crowd control. The visual element helps with PvP accessibility, and tuning the Resolve values allows us to achieve a fun tempo ensuring crowd control as its place but isn’t the end all be all of PvP. /unqoute

Sure it is... Why dont you enlighten us all, and tell us the advantages a PT/VG has over any other tank so i can return and pick your post apart with facts and send you back to the QQing hole you came from. Tanks in this game are a complete joke. Period. We have slightly more HP/mitigation (armor count) than a normal dps, and the trade off is we have 30-40% less damage. Just because you dont understand the Guarding/Taunt system, much less *any skilled player* with a healer, doesnt mean that PT/VG are so powerful. Find me a VG/PT OP nerf post. Thats what i thought. This game is a complete mess of letdowns, complete BS marketing, and dissapointment. Players like you, that feel the need to chime in and harp on **** you dont have a clue about, make it worse. Ill be waiting for your post with details explaining the advantages and PT/VG has over a force tank, and links of QQ posts regarding PTs/VG. ProTip; When you see a trooper/bh with nice numbers at the end of a match doesnt mean its a PT/VG. We are the lowest played spec in the game, save smugglers. Thanks. Please, dont take long, ill be waiting.