Consensus: Are Sentinels underpowered?

[Faeron]

I've had a hard time playing my Sentinel thus far, and playing as said class is so much harder than playing as my other toons.

 

So are Sentinels really an underpowered class? Or am I just terrible at this class even though as a Sith Jugg (50), I find it quite easy to get 6+ medals in pvp and died less than ten times (probably) while levelling in pve.

 

I have a Sentinel at 38 right now and I'm starting to notice how difficult of a class it is to play successfully. Please don't flame this post, responses?

[slowantics]

dont worry its just not you. more than a good handful feel the same way

[Faeron]

dont worry its just not you. more than a good handful feel the same way

 

And also I've just encountered about five sith within the past hour and gotten killed by all of them with relatively no effort on their part. It's terrible..

[Rubaz]

I was going to make a post resembling this topic so I'll post it here...

 

My sentinel is lvl 30 and has the Watchman spec. It has gotten harder to successfully kill mobs (the weak ones in packs no less) as I jumped planets. Tatooine wasn't bad (lvl 25-28), but it did get rough at times. I went to Alderaan at 28 and got absolutely smashed. So, I did PvP to get level 30, bought two orange (Light II) sabers from the weapons vendor, tried again. Better success, however still died fairly often on trash packs.

 

It doesn't seem to matter if I send Kira in first or not, as they all (within seconds it seems) turn their attention on me, even if I don't use Force Sweep (and that's assuming I even can when most of these Thul mobs are spread out). I thought my Sith Sin was squishy, but damn. I do a good job of relatively keeping my gear up to date (with all gear being str/end), but this is quite discouraging.

 

I don't have a problem with my rotation (not that there really is one with weak mobs as they die so fast), it's just by time I get through a few mobs I'm practically dead (when there's 1-2 left).

[Rakimou]

It's hard to say until the ability lags/delays are fixed.

But it definitely doesn't feel very rewarding. Mercs can spam tracer missiles and do at least the same amount of damage. Sorcs can spam lightning and do much more damage than us. Not taking into account that those are ranged classes and they have a lot of utility and CC.

[Rizque]

It's hard to say until the ability lags/delays are fixed.

But it definitely doesn't feel very rewarding. Mercs can spam tracer missiles and do at least the same amount of damage. Sorcs can spam lightning and do much more damage than us. Not taking into account that those are ranged classes and they have a lot of utility and CC.

 

 

These are my feelings exactly. I dont have a problem per se with the class right now but when something as critical as kick fails to work because of this lag than there is a major issue.

[Faeron]

I'm glad all of the other people I've talked to who play other classes and say "I just suck at this game" "QQ" "Whine Moar" etc. don't know what they're talking about and others feel the same way

[Aodhan]

... It doesn't seem to matter if I send Kira in first or not, as they all (within seconds it seems) turn their attention on me, even if I don't use Force Sweep...

 

Kira isn't a tank. I was getting just stomped on my Guardian when I got to Alderaan as well, and I was using Kira. I switched to T7 and geared him up, and I was back in business.

 

I have to say that coming from a DPS Guardian, the Sentinel (Watchman) is like a buzzsaw, mowing through everything that gets thrown at me. It's a noticeable difference. But none of this is to say I don't think Sentinels could use a buff, because I think they could. But they are, in my opinion, far better off than DPS Guardians.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Aodhan

[Atralis]

I've got a 50 Commando and a 35 Sentinel and heres my verdict.

 

Solo PvE- The Sentinel is much weaker. You take a LOT longer to take down packs of enemies (which is pretty much the only way they come in this game) and you take a lot more damage doing it (meaning a lot more down time between fights).

 

Group PvE- Just as good usually. If the group is using CC and stuff you have a chance to shine taking down enemies one by one and locking them down with your stasis and the blind move.

 

PvP- Worst class in the game- I may be arrogant but I think I do alright with my sentinel (hit around the middle of the damage charts, sometimes have a good game and end up near the top). But that being said on my Commando i top the charts (or get 2nd place) every game. I have zero appreciation of most sentinels or SIth Marauders in PvP.

 

That being said <b>it could be you</b>, partly.

 

Its a harder class to play in addition to being a weaker class. You have a short cooldown interupt (the kick) USE IT. You have force stasis and the blinding thing which can keep even a gold mob from dealing damage to you for 9 seconds. You have two difference defensive buffs that reduce damage done to you. Use them.

[MetallicaRulez]

Granted I'm only L17 on my Sentinel alt, but so far the Sentinel does FAR more damage than my Commando, Scoundrel, or Shadow did at this level. They aren't much squishier either with Rebuke up half the time.

 

Seriously though, Sentinel damage is crazy good so far. Using a Centering-focused build to maximize Zen uptime for Cleavey Slash spam.

[Vibeth]

Well it was never hard for me to play. I'm not saying the class isn't underpowered though, because it is (if you compare it to other classes) - for example I had a much easier time clearing mobs in PvE on my BH Mercenary.

 

It's just that there's several factors that make your life easier when leveling.

 

For example I was ALWAYS 2-3 levels above content, I'm lvl 39 now and on Quesh and the mobs go down before they can do significant damage.

Also, I'm using Doc. Finishing most fights on 100% hp.

I keep gear updated.

I used Kira ALL the time till I got Doc.

I'm Watchman spec.

I never died on any class boss, not even once (I interrupted).

 

Oh also PvP is a joy to play, specially when you're going 1v1 - Sentinel pretty much unbeatable in that department (well maybe by Operative or Scoundrel).

 

The only thing that really bothers me is ability delay/stuttering/cancellation (and defensive skills not going off when I press them). This is incredibly hurting when you're PvPing.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Vibeth

[Arrianlol]

Granted I'm only L17 on my Sentinel alt, but so far the Sentinel does FAR more damage than my Commando, Scoundrel, or Shadow did at this level. They aren't much squishier either with Rebuke up half the time.

 

Seriously though, Sentinel damage is crazy good so far. Using a Centering-focused build to maximize Zen uptime for Cleavey Slash spam.

 

you are level 17 lol.

 

I don't really have any leveling problems on my sent though, but i went biochem. Between staying fully buffed (even cantina food) and popping a fatty medpack every 90s. I really don't have downtime. I haven't done a shred of pvp however and won't until i get a better cpu installed.

[daibasu]

with my lvl 30 sentinel (watchman) twink i have no problems whatsoever in pve.

he just shreds through mobs in no time. only problem are groups with several strong mobs

since we lack serious aoe. single elites and champions just melt away with all the dots.

with saber ward, rebuke and zen pve is a piece of cake most of the time with this class.

 

in pvp the dmg u can do is amazing as well - only downside is that darn ability stuttering.

but even pre-50 bracket i managed to be top 3 dmg most of the time.

and once u hit 30 for force camo your survivability increases a ton. where i was focused

down as one of the few melees jumping into the frontline before i can now pop camo and juke

or retreat as needed. still waiting for guarded by the force tho.

 

but i totally agree that as a sentinel you have to work WAY harder to achieve what other

classes can do without breaking a sweat. but maybe that is why it is so much fun to play

a sent - nothing better than seeing peeps with 3 stacks of overload saber and cauterize melt

while u stasis them.

 

at the end of the day i wouldn't call sentinel UP - just harder to play, which is why it feels way more rewarding to outperform other deeps in WZs. for me at least.

 

btw this is coming from a lvl 50 vigilance guardian main.

[selectah]

Didn`t have any probs leveling my sent (lvl 48 atm). Leveled from 10-46 with combat which is a bit inferior to watchman though (which i am now specced in). Died not that much in PVE content up till now (about 10 times) and most of the time that was me not resting between fight and engaging with about 40% health or getting surprised by mobs/forgetting abilites which would have helped. In PVP i feel pretty powerful since yesterday, as all the overgeared 50`s are in their own bg sections. Not lost one (out of about 15) BG`s yesterday with always beeing on the top third of the ranking, dispite going for the objectives most of the time. Thus far i don`t (at all) feel underpowered. It`s a hard class to learn/play right, granted, thats mostly caused by the obscene amount of key bindings you have to use. And BW could buff combat to be equal to Watchman, as combat is more my style of play normally

[Gobrot]

The delays do not help thats for sure, but I am starting to think one of the problems besides that why sents/guardians etc... have problems is simply down to having to build up focus where other clases start with a full bar, so from the get go they can do anything they want where we are limited. If we started as they did with full focus which regens out of combat back to full then I think a lot of issues could be resolved.

 

Would this make us OP? I don't believe it would, it would mean we could use CC abilities without having to leap/hit someone first which would be a huge help, we could open with a decent attack without waiting 5-6 seconds+ before having focus to do anything meaningfull, this and fixing delay bugs may also mean they dont have to add anything extra to the class for it to be competative.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Gobrot

[der_mawel]

The delays do not help thats for sure, but I am starting to think one of the problems besides that why sents/guardians etc... have problems is simply down to having to build up focus where other clases start with a full bar, so from the get go they can do anything they want where we are limited. If we started as they did with full focus which regens out of combat back to full then I think a lot of issues could be resolved.

 

Would this make us OP? I don't believe it would, it would mean we could use CC abilities without having to leap/hit someone first which would be a huge help, we could open with a decent attack without waiting 5-6 seconds+ before having focus to do anything meaningfull, this and fixing delay bugs may also mean they dont have to add anything extra to the class for it to be competative.

 

the focus thing is the core machanics of this class, no matter how long the fight lasts we have nearly the same effeicieny at any given moment. this would just break the whole class mechanics and will certainlymake the class op as u can finish your comlete combo just from the start.

 

i think the first things on the balacing agenda shoul be:

 

1) fixing the animations (!!!)

2) buff the dmg by 10-20% OR add some cc resistance OR add force pull

3) i'd like to put some of my abilities into a macro (dispatch->blade rush-> zealous strike-> anytimer)

 

sentinel/marauder is the only advanced class that can't do anything but dmg thus it should be at least a full scale dd in pvp and pve. it isnt right now.

 

some people keep telling that it is possible to do dmg and that there are lots of sentinel who are top dmg in warfronts but how often do you see a top dmg mercenary/commando? they basically need just 2-3 abilities which they can use at 30m range to deal a vast amount of dmg, especially burst dmg.

 

for a well played sentnel/marauder there sure are possibilities to do serious dmg and lots of other things in warfronts but how much dmg would a well played merc/commado or basically any other dd do?

 

if a class is harder to play it should also have a greater potential. i dont say we should deal as much dmg as any other dd but it shouldnt be 40% less than other dds.

 

iv tried commando and sage. i dont like their mechanics quite as much as of the sentinel but they are just much more efficient at what they are designed to do and both are more versatile than my sentinel.

[Helig]

Unless Sentinels are somehow less powerful than Marauders, than no, they are not underpowered. My undergeared Marauder feels immensely more powerful than my main Guardian character - both, during levelling, and in PvP.

 

Of the four classes that I invested my time into - Guardian, Scoundrel, and Marauder (Sniper isn't 50 yet :S) the Marauder is easily the most powerful one on one at 50.

 

What's funny, he's also more survivable than the Guardian - at least when Guardian is in a DPS spec. Those defensive cooldowns are practically divine. Can't wait till I get more Expertise and see the class at its full potential.

 

Sure, there are many buttons. I have around 44 keybinds, including relics\adrenals\medpaks. But it's so damn worth it. Every single button-stroke.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Helig

[Outlawe]

I love my sentinel, he is fun to play, I don't think he is underpowered, I have not played any other classes though. I know this with games though, a challenging game is more fun and longer lasting than an easy game.

 

The only time I have had stutter or delay is when I am a fraction too far from my target.

 

I know we all like to sensationalise trivial things but it is just a game...

 

 

Also experience dictates that, people are going to relentlessly whine in the hopes that we get boosted, BW will give in to salvage subscriptions, we will become fotm, then we get nerfed. Games usually get it right first time, we just need the gamers/skills/techniques to mature.

 

The next whine is going to be zerging in ilum, we will mature and roam in full groups, but in-between there is gonna be a whole lotta whinge.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Outlawe

[DragonixPL]

I don't have much experience with other classes but leveling a Sentinel wasn't hard at all. There are few tricks that have been mentioned that can help you while leveling.

 

Sentinel is a DPS class. It's best to use healer or tank companion. So basically use T7 in tank mode till the point when you get Doc.

 

* If you do all the quests you are always 2-3 levels above the content - it's just how it works.

* Keeping your gear up to date will help as well. Lightsabers are the most importent, so try to get purple hilts (Artifice helps a lot).

 

During my leveling I noticed two milestones, following which fights became much easier: first one was switching from Combat spec to Watchman spec. The rotation is easier (you don't have to watch those small buffs) and you get some healing from DoT crits. Second milestone was around lvl 38 when Doc joins your team. With Doc and Watchmen spec you finish most of the fights with full health.

 

Also try to use Opportune Strike and Pommel Strike as frequently as possible. Those two skills do HUGE damage when fighting normal and silver mobs. I usually use them in combos Force Leap -> Opportune Strike and Blade Storm / Force Sweep -> Pommel Strike.

 

When fighting golden and boss mobs it's important to use Saber Ward and Rebuke. Also try to interrupt all the spell casts using Kick.

[der_mawel]

lvling was not exactly what i had in mind. pvp is of greater importance to me when talking about balancing. ive tried several classes n pvp, in a group as well as on my own. my experience is that the sentinel is the one with the least dmg output but greatest mobility.

 

the dmgoutput of the sentinel in pvp relies on combos, in my case it is precision strike->blade rush->blade storm. this is a combo with a 15s cooldown which has to be executed in 6s. it often gets interrupted by knockback, root, stun, force speed.

 

if this combo (which is the shortest of all specs) is successful it deals about 4600dmg in during 4.5s.

 

a commando deals during this time at least 4500dmg in form of tree grav rounds plus 2000dmg with the demo round if nothing of this is critical. this combo has a cooldwon of 15s and 30m range nd is followed by a high impact bolt which deals 2k dmg and is instant. grav round debuff lasts for 15s so if the combo gets interrupted the dmg comes out slower.

 

sentinel is sustained melee dps in my understanding but i lacks:

 

- a bit of dps

- lots of sustainability

 

am the only benefits of sentinel is the force leap, the healdebuff and the great ecape abilities. trancendence is also great.

[Outlawe]

lvling was not exactly what i had in mind. pvp is of greater importance to me when talking about balancing. ive tried several classes n pvp, in a group as well as on my own. my experience is that the sentinel is the one with the least dmg output but greatest mobility.

 

the dmgoutput of the sentinel in pvp relies on combos, in my case it is precision strike->blade rush->blade storm. this is a combo with a 15s cooldown which has to be executed in 6s. it often gets interrupted by knockback, root, stun, force speed.

 

if this combo (which is the shortest of all specs) is successful it deals about 4600dmg in during 4.5s.

 

a commando deals during this time at least 4500dmg in form of tree grav rounds plus 2000dmg with the demo round if nothing of this is critical. this combo has a cooldwon of 15s and 30m range nd is followed by a high impact bolt which deals 2k dmg and is instant. grav round debuff lasts for 15s so if the combo gets interrupted the dmg comes out slower.

 

sentinel is sustained melee dps in my understanding but i lacks:

 

- a bit of dps

- lots of sustainability

 

am the only benefits of sentinel is the force leap, the healdebuff and the great ecape abilities. trancendence is also great.

 

I have hit enemies in PvP for over 4k with MErciless Slash (Which takes 1 nano second to pull off)

 

I have hit enemies in PvP for over 3k with dispatch.

 

I have mutilated enemies with a sequence of force leap/cauterise/one or 2 other hits before I even have to hit Zen.

 

So you exagerate and everyone knows that Watchman> Combat

 

You see that commando you are jealous of, 1 force kick renders him useless. Discuss.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Outlawe

[Helig]

lvling was not exactly what i had in mind. pvp is of greater importance to me when talking about balancing. ive tried several classes n pvp, in a group as well as on my own. my experience is that the sentinel is the one with the least dmg output but greatest mobility.

 

the dmgoutput of the sentinel in pvp relies on combos, in my case it is precision strike->blade rush->blade storm. this is a combo with a 15s cooldown which has to be executed in 6s. it often gets interrupted by knockback, root, stun, force speed.

 

if this combo (which is the shortest of all specs) is successful it deals about 4600dmg in during 4.5s.

 

a commando deals during this time at least 4500dmg in form of tree grav rounds plus 2000dmg with the demo round if nothing of this is critical. this combo has a cooldwon of 15s and 30m range nd is followed by a high impact bolt which deals 2k dmg and is instant. grav round debuff lasts for 15s so if the combo gets interrupted the dmg comes out slower.

 

sentinel is sustained melee dps in my understanding but i lacks:

 

- a bit of dps

- lots of sustainability

 

am the only benefits of sentinel is the force leap, the healdebuff and the great ecape abilities. trancendence is also great.

 

Damage - not a concern. I played both, Carnage (Combat) and Annihilation (Watchman), and both specs bring excellent damage to the table - although Carnage appears to shine with more advanced gear.

 

Mobility - Carnage\Combat has a root on Deadly Throw, and a root-break on Camo, in addition to your core sklills. Can't get much more awesome than that, tbh. As far as Annihilation (Watchman) are concerned, you do have lower mobility, but you don't need as much of it, tbh. It offers shorter cooldown on Charge, but in my experience, it's more useful for chain interrupting healers (with Close Quarters), than gap-closing.

[Detcelfer]

Against the best of the best where you can truly feel the difference in class, from what I've seen Sentinels are doing pretty good. The problem is the learning curve for sentinels is the most difficult of the bunch.

 

My sentinel does about 300k on average per pvp match. Some of the other "good" sentinels out there post about the same. The problem is what happens when other "good" players get on the battlefield with different classes and we see how weak we actually are.

 

Very few classes can actually go toe to toe with my sentinel but the ones that can are arguably what some have already mentioned being slightly OP (I use that word with a cringe). Powertechs and Operatives have been the most difficult classes for me to overcome. Again, we're talking "good" players here. Other than that, the only way any of the other classes will beat me is if they have backup. In a perfect 1v1 environment, I can still wear down any other class.

 

The thing to keep in mind here is that some classes are simply not designed to be true 1v1 but rather strong in a team. Snipers/Gunslingers can bring a lot to the table but they can struggle a bit against a sentinel. Same can be said of Sorcs/Sages who can snare you, dot you, and put out a healthy steady stream of damage. If I go 1v1 against a sorc/sage it takes me roughly 15 seconds to kill them against our servers best (no joke). If they're using the backup of a team however, they're much much much stronger and possibly more useful than even myself. Its all situational.

 

My point is be careful with all the UP or OP statements. The game is young and a lot of data still needs to be collected. For my 2 cents however, as someone who has hit 600k in pvp now as a sentinel and 140k in heals, I will say this in conclusion: We are a strong class with a steep learning curve that struggles against organised pre-made teams. We 1v1 like beasts, but will still fall short of powertechs and sometimes operatives (if they get the initiation). I personally feel this class should NOT be streamlined for the less skilled as I enjoy having the edge over others (who would not?).

 

What can be done to help improve this class? Well I dont feel anything needs to be done to be honest. Its tough for me to say because while I'd like to be the 1v1 king, I dont think we are or should be. We are however near the top of the list on dps king but from what I've seen, powertechs are actually capable of beating us. Possibly the same with Operatives as well. I'd note that both those classes from what I've read/heard seem to have a slight advantage over their counterparts, vanguards and scoundrels.

 

Hope this was somewhat informative.

[Juumanistra]

The only thing you're liable to find consensus on with regard to Sentinels on these forums are that:

1) Sentinels have a high skill floor.

2) Sentinels suffer from at least some playability issues.

3) Sentinels are inordinately hurt by ability delay.

 

Beyond that, as this thread attests, opinions widely differ as to the state of Sentinels. Once the combat log is implemented, at least, we'll be able to start improving the signal-to-noise ratio so that we can get a more objective assessment of the class.

[EasymodeX]

We are a strong class with a steep learning curve that struggles against organised pre-made teams.

 

I pretty much said the same thing in beta. There is no fundamental difference between the Marauder of SWTOR and the WL/Slayer/Choppa/Zerk/Savage/Merc/BM of other games.

 

Raw melee DPS -- not "ROGUE ASSASSINS" like WoW -- get hammered hard when they are fighting as a pug versus a premade.

 

However, your statement is incomplete.

 

Sent/Maras also get the most benefits from a premade. Seriously, who do you want on your team getting healed with a guard on them? A BH tracerlol failure that can get chain interrupted and contribute 0 to the fight? A megaburst Op/Smuggler that gets kited to infinity and beyond, with poor sustained pressure or burst after their opener? Who you can instantly burst down to 0 because their personal defenses are nil?

 

No, you want a Sent/Mara, because they have group run speed buffs, personal defensive cooldowns, very high DPS pressure. You throw a few heals on the Sent and pop a guard on them once in awhile and they are unstoppable.

 

With general heal and guard support (or not even guard support), a Sent/Mara has no weakness. They cannot be interrupted, they are hard to kite (if you think you get kited easily as a Sent, try playing a Shadow or Smuggler after opening).