Update on Ilum Open World PvP issues

[Lacertus]

What a bunch of whiners.. seriously, i farmed my valor 0-58 the legit way, got half a valor lvl to 59 from Ilum. I admit the patch was hurried out and I rather see the whole BW team working on bug fixes than some on fix, some on new content

 

People seems to think a rollback is a simple matter. A rollback affects the whole server, you can't just rollback valor without rolling back the time on the server. That means that anything that has happened since the rollback, all items crafted, rolled for, new toons created, Everything is rollbacked. So the guys demanding a rollback, get over it, things will even out over time.

 

And all empty threats about "subscription not renewed" oH noeeessss \o/... Glad you are all leaving, then you will probably stop trolling the forum. People have said it before, don't like it, just leave, no need to create drama over it, we don't care about you leaving. Whine =/= constructive criticism

 

QFT +10 internetz to you

[Saviorofcamelot]

Hello everyone; I wanted to update you on the issues we’ve been seeing today on the live servers, specifically within the Open World PvP area on Ilum. We’re aware that on some servers, either Republic or Empire groups have been capturing the Ilum control points, entering the enemy’s base and ‘camping’ the medcenters, preventing the opposite faction from leaving their base to recapture control points. This is not a fair or balanced gameplay experience and can also severely affect client performance, so we’re taking steps to address this.

 

Our intended design for Ilum Open World PvP is that players are instantly killed when entering the enemy’s base safe area, just like in Warzones, and that the defending faction can take taxis to other points within the zone. In Game Update 1.1, this is not working as intended. We have found the issue preventing this from happening under server load and will be publishing an Emergency Patch to address the issue. We’re aiming to have this patch published early tomorrow morning (January 19th, 5 AM US CST). [Note, please check the launcher and the main thread for the latest information on patch deployment timing -JG]

 

In addition to these changes, we’ll be reducing the population cap on Ilum. This should help increase performance by requiring your client to render fewer characters on-screen at once.

 

Regarding Valor gains, with the 1.1 update, players now receive a base reward of 20 Valor per unique enemy player defeated in a short time, and this base reward is modified by the number of objectives that the player’s faction owns. The gains are rate limited per player killed, encouraging players to attack unique players, not to pursue vendettas. The Valor gains players can see over time will vary greatly depending on the activity level in the zone. This is expected.

 

To dispel a couple of rumors that have been seen today – there is no Valor gain from destroying turrets within enemy bases, and none from killing NPCs.

 

We encourage players to avoid Ilum until our patch is deployed. As a temporary measure we will be disabling taxi services which would normally take players into the Open World PvP area. However, players will still be able to taxi out of the area.

 

We will continue to monitor Ilum across all servers and will make further changes to gameplay if required. We welcome your feedback here on the Forums, but please ensure your feedback is constructive and specific. Feedback based on rumor does not help us isolate potential issues.

 

Update: Please see Associate Community Manager Joveth Gonzalez's update below:

 

 

 

The Spawn Camping was pretty bad, the fact you guys took 20 hours to offer some type of response is also bad but that fact you guys keep delaying or canceling patches is all the more reason I decided to unsub.

 

Customer Service is a big part of running a business and you need to work it. I know things happen and sometimes you have to adjust schedules but you guys have hundreds more employee's right now then you will a year from now and if you can't function normally now... I don't want to see what happens when you have to start firing employee's.

[blackvain]

I cant see a roll back being put out at all because of the legitiment gains by people.

 

closing ilum why just put a patch out so it played before 1.1 . and then go back to the pts and test Ilum with more feedback, With this amount of people veiwing and reply surely going back to the pts could resolve this ilum issue and make it a better experience for everybody.

 

 

ilum needs to be instanced to a Ops group each side

 

why not make it like Voidstar attackers and defenders but with side mission for some solo'in pvp and skirmishing actions

Edited January 19, 2012 by blackvain

[Nemeses]

read the last quote of the devs post please. ty

 

Why don't you go read it and learn to understand what been said ... they have not said their will be roll back ...I would say what I actually thin k of you but that will just the post removed and a warning ..

[Zetara]

Nobody said that getting to 60 valor required any skill. It did however require a lot of time spent. And a lot of warzones played. It didn't even matter if you win or lose. However there's a huge difference in what is happening on Ilum. Pre 1.1 only going from rank 59 to 60 required 50-60 games. Post 1.1? Couple of hours, 1 button AoE or /afk macro in the middle of the zerg while you're watching TV or making dinner. Hmmm... i wonder which way was the legitimate and harder to get... Hmmm... Wait, don't answer that question... And yes, i know you're afraid to lose your "hard earned" 10 valor ranks from yesterday and that's why the zealous defense. Don't worry. Bioware will not rollback the valor. You may be a proud battlemaster now. Or even "elite warlord". Congratz.

 

You're just posting something you've got no idea about now.

 

You've ignored the part where we had a 5 hour battle with republic of even numbers out side of their base... good job.

 

You've ignored the part where it didn't even happen on all servers... good job.

 

You've ignored the part where I'm not battlemaster or anywhere near... good job.

 

You instead just made stuff up as most republic are doing right now, such as a couple of hours to get to 60, me being battlemaster, or me being afraid to lose my hard earned valour which you put in quotation marks as if I'm lying about the fact that we had a great battle with equal numbers and shouldn't be punished just because YOUR server doesn't have a lot of Republic players.

 

So I ask you again, why should everybody be punished for something that happened on a few servers but not all?

[couldbeworse]

BW probably doesn't want to piss even more people off but I am now swayed that to keep this game still functional the full rollback from valor gained in Ilum only is needed. Not sure if they can get that done in a reasonable amount of time though. I still think people have not seen accurate numbers as to what really happened. Just do the rollback. Maybe add a valor and exp buff for everyone for 24hrs so it doesn't see so bad

[Aepervius]

People arguing there shouldn't be a rollback have obviously not been doing much other than farming Ilum as they fail to acknowledge Patch 1.1 introduced far worse things like random loading screen during gameplay/warzones, ability stuttering increase, FPS decrease, a UI "fix" that actually made the UI worse etc.

 

If all of the above mentioned isn't good enough reason to rollback to 1.0 then there simply isn't any hope left for this game.

 

No people saying there should not be a rollback are simply realizing that on most server, only a minority partook in the exploit. First rule of a rollback : you only do it if the majority is affected. You do not destroy the work of a majority to reset a minority. Now if they can make a case by case decision, sure, but server rollback is another kind of beast : you impact +everybody* on the server and will generate much anger.

 

ETA: and furthermore having done a few rollback in my time, it is always a risky procedure, as you have to make sure all NEW structure in the DB are pruned or rolledback too properly. Depending on the DB type you can even set up a rollback to actually read from the action in a log and make sure you go to a safe point. If you can#t you are even more in a bad pass.

 

I don't know anything about THEIR DB and the way they save char, but from what they said hafl word about server transfer of chars, I get the distinct feeling a rollback would not be that easy. Just a guess from experience though.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Aepervius

[Nangasaur]

The rumors of 200 valor per minute are greatly exaggerated however. While there were certainly bursts of valor, with that many people camping and that few Republic, I was only getting about 100 valor every 5 minutes.

You can't be serious, can you? Have you not seen the hundreds of screenshots, youtube videos, and streaming videos of people's chat logs getting hundreds of valor in mere 10 seconds or less? Their entire chat log was full of, "+valor" and, "+bonus valor" gains. The chat logs are time stamped to the second. The biggest one I saw was an 8-second interval with 800ish valor gained.

 

That is not, "greatly exaggerated." The reason you may think so is because you are Republic and weren't in the 50+ groups of Imperials camping the respawn points. If you are, in fact, Empire, then you are just another individual attempting to downplay the full impact of this because you either weren't in the right place at the right time, or you just weren't fully participating like the thousands of other exploiters who were.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Nangasaur

[Nemeses]

You're just posting something you've got no idea about now.

 

You've ignored the part where we had a 5 hour battle with republic of even numbers out side of their base... good job.

 

You've ignored the part where it didn't even happen on all servers... good job.

 

You've ignored the part where I'm not battlemaster or anywhere near... good job.

 

You instead just made stuff up as most republic are doing right now, such as a couple of hours to get to 60, me being battlemaster, or me being afraid to lose my hard earned valour which you put in quotation marks as if I'm lying about the fact that we had a great battle with equal numbers and shouldn't be punished just because YOUR server doesn't have a lot of Republic players.

 

So I ask you again, why should everybody be punished for something that happened on a few servers but not all?

 

Utter utter rubbish you are just protecting the valour you won unfairly, but he no worries the Dev's at BW are so thick nothing will happen till they start losing the subs then it will be to late!

[Kahoki]

So would this be a valid reason why everywhere else in game my PC runs it fine with no lag or glitching, but, the moment I go to Illum, the game is unplayable?

 

The lag on Ilum on Sunday was just horrible. Just doing the daily Heroic 2+ was like pulling teeth with tweezers.

[demotivator]

is Bioware trying to make this a one faction game for storyline reasons?

 

My guess is that they want this game to fail hard so that they can get back on things they know how to do: single player games.

 

It is now a given that they are complete amateurs in the MMO field.

Edited January 19, 2012 by demotivator

[Phaedrynn]

What a bunch of whiners.. seriously, i farmed my valor 0-58 the legit way, got half a valor lvl to 59 from Ilum. I admit the patch was hurried out and I rather see the whole BW team working on bug fixes than some on fix, some on new content

 

People seems to think a rollback is a simple matter. A rollback affects the whole server, you can't just rollback valor without rolling back the time on the server. That means that anything that has happened since the rollback, all items crafted, rolled for, new toons created, Everything is rollbacked. So the guys demanding a rollback, get over it, things will even out over time.

 

And all empty threats about "subscription not renewed" oH noeeessss \o/... Glad you are all leaving, then you will probably stop trolling the forum. People have said it before, don't like it, just leave, no need to create drama over it, we don't care about you leaving. Whine =/= constructive criticism

 

Some sanity in this sea of hand wringing? Say it aint so!

[Zetara]

Utter utter rubbish you are just protecting the valour you won unfairly, but he no worries the Dev's at BW are so thick nothing will happen till they start losing the subs then it will be to late!

 

What's rubbish, is that you refuse to accept that we had a decent fight just because you didn't.

[Gohr-]

No people saying there should not be a rollback are simply realizing that on most server, only a minority partook in the exploit. First rule of a rollback : you only do it if the majority is affected. You do not destroy the work of a majority to reset a minority. Now if they can make a case by case decision, sure, but server rollback is another kind of beast : you impact +everybody* on the server and will generate much anger.

 

Although a rollback - aside from ban - would be a clean and fast solution as long as it happens soon enough. I understand that with more time passing it will become more and more ridiculous for all those that played fairly so there´s just hope that something´s gonna happen in the next hours.

[Wrecky]

No people saying there should not be a rollback are simply realizing that on most server, only a minority partook in the exploit. First rule of a rollback : you only do it if the majority is affected. You do not destroy the work of a majority to reset a minority. Now if they can make a case by case decision, sure, but server rollback is another kind of beast : you impact +everybody* on the server and will generate much anger.

 

Just do a rollback on valor gained outside of wgs.

[Nangasaur]

Did you not read the part where they say they are aware of the players who took extreme advantage? They'll do something about that. But you're too busy raging to read properly.

I'll believe it when I see the thread of 200k+ views and 230+ pages of Emperials who are mad that their exploited valor got rolled back.

 

Until then, I'll continue with my skeptical view that nothing of any real significance will be done, just like what happened with the credit exploiters, level 13 gold farmers (who still persist), etc.

[Calenei]

No rollback....

[Nangasaur]

Checking in, has bioware announced the actions they are taking? (Besides "looking in to it")

 

Thanks

No, and they won't. It's their publicly-stated policy not to discuss actions taken against accounts who abuse exploits and/or the terms of service.

[Wrecky]

No rollback....

 

Hey exploiter!!!!

[Almghty_gir]

Guys, i'll be posting this in the official thread too, but i'm making it's own thread in the hopes that it won't get lost, and that it might gain some traction/momentum. this is a selection of ideas that both i and others have come up with that could help with the problems that exist in the game. they are by no means a "one tool fixes everything", and certainly they are just a starting point to go on.

 

so let's start with the current problems, some are fixable, others aren't...

1. this is a two faction game - this cannot be fixed, it's way too late to change it, and it will be there forever... if you don't like that, there are other games that are different. find them.
   
2. there are population imbalances - due to being a two faction game, this will always be apparent, whether the difference is large or small depends largely on the playerbase but there are things Bioware can do to remedy it somewhat.
   
3. faction pride - because you can roll both factions on the same server, the majority of players will feel very little pride in their own faction, there is no ownership or accountability. if you don't like how things are going... just alt on the other faction for a while! rather than actually try to push the rest of your faction to rally together.
   
4. the powerful get more powerful - currently due to game mechanics, the dominant faction has an easier time becoming more powerful, this has the knock on effect of making the underdog side feel even less inclined to compete... why compete when you're almost certain to lose, right?
   
5. pvp stats - a controvertial issue to be sure, many people feel it's necessary, many feel the opposite, we can explore it but it's doubtful that there will ever be a solution that everybody likes. sometimes the minority might have to tip it's head to the majority.
   
6. vertical progression - intrinsically tied into MMO's nowadays, especially ones that heavily involve pve content, is vertical progression... this is due to the mindset of most players that they simply "want bigger numbers". this is something that is quite possibly the biggest problem in PVP in any game, and always will be.
   

 

so let's tackle each issue one at a time, make some sense of it, and see what we can do to potentially solve the issue.

 

1. two faction game.

 

As i stated above, this will not change, it's too late to even think about it, sorry... however it is heavily tied into...

 

2. population imbalance.

 

Because this is a two faction game, one side will invariably outnumber the other. there are a few things that the developer can do to remedy the issue, such as imposing hard-caps on server factions, giving bonuses to the underdog faction, give penalties to the overpopulated faction, imposing instance limits per faction. but ultimately it all comes down to the players choice. regardless of anything the developer does, it's the player who makes the choice to roll on either faction.

 

3. cross faction players.

 

the ability to roll both factions on the same server is the most detrimental thing in any pvp game. it promotes "spying", and it also dissolves any form of "faction pride" that could ever have existed. it results in a fractured community of players who neither trust each other, or even in some cases want to even talk to each other. it makes organising the underdog realm very difficult as any potential gathering could be leaked to the dominating faction with disasterous results.

 

4. the great snowball.

 

this actually ties three things in together, each one is bad on it's own but when combined they make for a snowball that just gets bigger and bigger until it becomes unmanageable. it's sad to say that we're almost at that point already! but what are those three things?

• pvp stats
  
• vertical progression
  
• imbalanced populations
  

 

we've already covered population imbalance to a degree, but in this context it's important to note that due to current game mechanics, the overpopulated realm is just reaping huge rewards with little penalty. they're able to capture and hold all the objectives, whilst simultaniously dominate the underdog faction due to pure numbers, on top of all this, when (for example) 40 people "tag" a single enemy combatant, when that person dies all 40 people get the same reward as if only one person had made the kill... this is unacceptable by ALL standards. combine this with vertical progression, and not only do the dominant faction have an easier time getting higher tiered gear, but when they get there they become more powerful, making them not only harder to kill but also making it easier to kill the underdogs. and to top it all off, there's a pvp stat involved... one of the worst things to grace mmo's everywhere has been addopted here, and what it means now, is that because higher tiered gear has higher base stats, AND a higher allotment of pvp stats, the dominating realm is well and truly on its way to being unbeatable. when "new 50's" come into the fold, there really will be no place for them, and no means for them to challenge the overpopulated side.

 

But what can we do about allof this? nothing, it's in Biowares hands... and god i hope they can fix it. I'm sure they have ideas of their own, but then i'm also sure they thought the ideas they've already tried were good ones. disregarding the fact, of course, that those ideas both tried and failed in other games...

 

So, here are a few suggestions that might make BioWares life easier. a couple of things they could do to make things more enjoyable for players and make the game a better place all round.

 

1. Heavily incentivise the underdog faction by doing the following:

• when the serverwide population is imbalanced by 1.5:1 or greater, grant a +100% valor bonus SERVER WIDE to the underdog faction.
  
• when the instance population is imbalanced by 1.25:1 or greater, grant a 25% valor bonus which scales up to 400% when the population imbalance reaches 4:1.
  
• make valor per kill, and the bonus attached to it, become divided by the amount of players involved in the kill. so rather than 40 players gaining (20 valor + 180 valor bonus) for killing a single player, they would instead recieve (1 valor + 5 valor bonus) each. this will round UP to the nearest whole number.
  

 

this will grant a NON stat oriented incentive for the underdogs to get out there and fight. it will mean that in the absolute worst case scenario of being outnumbered by 4:1 or greater, the underdog will recieve the same valor per kill than the dominating faction will, even if the dominating faction controls all the objectives. it will also promote the idea that you are better off roaming in small groups looking for good even fights, than you are blobbing up in an almighty zerg, since you will gian less valor per kill as a zerg.

 

2. remove pvp stats from the game immediately, and do the following for a patch in the near future:

• tag Tionese, Columi, and Rakata gear, so that as soon as they enter a warzone, or initiate pvp, they recieve a 5% debuff to all stats. this would work similarly to how a player gets tagged with a trauma debuff when fighting, and the debuff vanishes when combat ends.
  

 

i realise many people see pvp stats as a way for pvp players to compete with pve players who have better stats on their gear due to the progression of pve gear. i get that, it's a reasonable argument. but it's been dealt with in completely the wrong way. what it's ended up doing is alienating any and all players who don't have the gear now, or in future, who are going to be faced up against high level players, probably on a dominant side, and it just all mounts up to having too much work to do, for too little gain.

 

there is still "progression" for all of those who wish to have it. the pvp gear still has tiers of stats, so you still get more numbers. but you will still struggle to complete high end pve content due to having lower stats than the pve sets. while at the same time, the pve gear will be great for pve, but will be on-par with the pvp sets, so there is no unfair advantage in that regard.

 

thanks for reading, i hope someone somewhere takes some notice.

cheers.

[couldbeworse]

Just add another daily warzone win quest. You can't do the second one till you finish the first. Ilum can be implemented later when other issues are fixed. It was very clearly not ready and the recent changes were poorly planned.

[Calenei]

 

Hey exploiter!!!!

 

 

 

Sorry should have clarified....

 

no rollback..... should have had a question mark at the end of it.

 

Haven't played in a few days /sadpanda

[darthtoph]

No people saying there should not be a rollback are simply realizing that on most server, only a minority partook in the exploit. First rule of a rollback : you only do it if the majority is affected. You do not destroy the work of a majority to reset a minority. Now if they can make a case by case decision, sure, but server rollback is another kind of beast : you impact +everybody* on the server and will generate much anger.

 

Amazing how you just ignored everything I wrote about random loading screens during gameplay whenever a player spawns near you (affecting the majority, acknowledged by BW), decreased FPS performance (affecting the majority, acknowledged by BW), increased ability stuttering, that proudly announced UI "fix" that made things worse and everything. I never even mentioned the valor "exploit" as I couldn't care less.

 

Can you please explain once more how "You do not destroy the work of a majority to reset a minority" when many bugs introduced with the 1.1 Patch are affecting the majority? Perhaps try reading other threads and stay updated on the issues for a change?

Edited January 19, 2012 by darthtoph

[Aepervius]

Although a rollback - aside from ban - would be a clean and fast solution as long as it happens soon enough. I understand that with more time passing it will become more and more ridiculous for all those that played fairly so there´s just hope that something´s gonna happen in the next hours.

 

Read my ETA. A rollback depending on their DB might not be easy.

 

And a rollback on SOME part of the character data like valour as some ask, might even be MORE trickier.

[tigerico]

Hi everyone,

 

I just wanted to be clear and let you all know that we’re definitely aware of individuals who took extreme advantage of this situation and we will be carefully evaluating and taking action as necessary.

 

Yep, I expect nothing less from you folks. By all means please do. Just like you "took action" against people who got to level 50 on day 1 of early access by joining warzones that ended prematurely. Oh wait... you didn't do **** about that either.

 

Congrats on all the new Battlemasters. Now that the Empire has 200:1 battlemasters compared to Republic, it is going to be even better for the game balance. Every day BioWare disappoints more and more..