This is RIDICULOUS

[Brosephiine]

So from an arrogant perspective you expect everyone to do everything. If I could perform brain surgery on myself, let alone everyone else, what would separate everyone on the planet from one another? Alas I cannot, nor can I design games. You specialize in Game Art and Design, it is your duty to master this aspect as you do it for a living(not exactly you, but Bioware in this regard). You can't just say you don't like it make it better yourself, because if we all said that in our day to day job, I can guarantee you with absolute certainty the customer would look elsewhere. And where would that leave you the designer of the product? Yes its hard to create, design and upkeep all these aspects to make a game, but in actuality that is irrelevant to the customer. The customer only cares about what the product is supposed to do, cost, and how do I get it. Everything else added into the process is extra. So my promise from Bioware was blah blah blah yadayada, everything they said before this game launched. In playing the game, I can see there are many flaws, promises about how the game should perform, what it does, what it offers, all these different things are not what I wanted or expected when buying this product. So you see its not our job to enhance or make this product better, its the company trying to make money off of us to entice us to stay. Our complaints are valid and Bioware knows this.

 

... Wow, that went right over your head didn't it? xD

 

I wasn't saying that I expect everyone to do it themselves. I'm saying that a lot of people have no clue what it takes to make a game or how it works. So to complain that Bioware is doing a terrible job and should "know better" is just plain ignorance. I honestly just wish people would stop expecting so much from these companies who put out great games. Yes, it's not perfect upon release. It's an MMO, they are never perfect. They're constantly changing, that opens the door for new bugs every time something changes. Does no one get that at all?

 

I'm sure Bioware has mastered their craft just fine. People simply need to be patience. Rome was not built in a day.

 

Also, I am quite sure Bioware did not make empty promises. As I've said before, sometimes coding gets messed up and sometimes an unknown element (the player) comes in and manages to find a bug that was not found before release. Is that the fault of the company? Does this mean they're breaking their promises? Of course not. Anything not actually in the game yet is irrelevant too. Do you expect them to release everything at once? Of course not! That's far too big of a download and would pose far more issues, not to mention the lack of stuff to do once you beat the game in week. If you want a game with no bugs and all content released at once... Go play console games.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Brosephiine

[Yhor]

... Wow, that went right over your head didn't it? xD

 

I wasn't saying that I expect everyone to do it themselves. I'm saying that a lot of people have no clue what it takes to make a game or how it works. So to complain that Bioware is doing a terrible job and should "know better" is just plain ignorance. I honestly just wish people would stop expecting so much from these companies who put out great games. Yes, it's not perfect upon release. It's an MMO, they are never perfect. They're constantly changing, that opens the door for new bugs every time something changes. Does no one get that at all?

 

I'm sure Bioware has mastered their craft just fine. People simply need to be patience. Rome was not built in a day.

 

 

No, you're right. It doesn't have to be perfect at launch, or even a year after launch... but common mistakes that have been made over and over by other developers shouldn't keep happening.

 

You have to be able to learn from mistakes, even (especially) if the mistakes were made by your competitor first.

[Brosephiine]

No, you're right. It doesn't have to be perfect at launch, or even a year after launch... but common mistakes that have been made over and over by other developers shouldn't keep happening.

 

You have to be able to learn from mistakes, even (especially) if the mistakes were made by your competitor first.

 

This I agree with to a certain extent. Of course you don't want to be making the same mistakes that have been made before you. The first rule of game design is to use available resources anyway. I've no excuse for the issues that should've been corrected from the start, but even so... It'll get fixed eventually.

 

As for other things... I've seen people complaining, "Well why didn't they do it this way like Blizzard did? Even WoW has this! Why can't this have the same thing as WoW?" ... Go play WoW then. I've seen this specifically for PvP in SWTOR, it drives me nuts every single time.

[Kythrae]

I work in sales and I have worked in many customer service positions over the years. I have ground breaking news for you. Not only is the customer not only the center of the universe, they are often ignorant of anything save what they THINK they want.

 

Let me be clear, mistakes and lies are not acceptable to me nor should a customer be tolerating them either, but this is not the problem I see in games. The problem I see is just an extension of what every retail employee can tell you, is a most humans seem to have this need to be babied and catered to no matter the constraints of reality.

 

I freely admit I am annoyed by the bugs, the obstruction to quests, and in general the mobs that decide they need to zerg me in my story phase and then set themselves up after I am slaughtered. I submit maybe 10-12 tickets a day. I am not that pleased with a generic email but I do know the reason for it. THIS GAME IS NEW!

 

It does not matter one iota what Beta came up with or what has gone under the bridge this passed month. I know this for a fact because even the vaunted experts of Blizzard missed glaring bugs players were happy to exploit until somebody noticed a lot of achievements were getting done way too fast. (See Safety Dance corner bug for example at Naxx.)

 

Given all the complexity and phased areas every planet comes up with, let alone layered phases to accommodate the populations, I am stunned I do not crash everyday. It is a tribute to the programmers and testers that we have this much working as we do.

 

Finally the argument about money, I love this one when it comes up. ALL products need the initial customers to pave the way for improvements and innovations of both the next generation and a decrease in the costs of future products and releases. Take a moment to look at a single TV model price point from first appearance to when it leaves a shelf forever...you will see steam a bit but it is a basic truth all companies need to make money to keep a customer happy.

 

Those of us that weather this storm of bugs and issues, and whining, may not feel it is fair that later gamers may know nothing of this but that is a poor concern to use as a blanket statement to condemn this game. If you do not want to use your money here than please unsub until you feel the game is worthy. Otherwise it is an investment to see the gameplay improve and to see the majority of issues become smoothed away.

 

I feel the frustration I do, but I also know it was never the intent to let this simply lie as it is. The myriad of gaming experience tells me we have a good one and that sadly too many FPS and instant gratification is becoming the norm. Not my cup of tea but like a good book I give all my stories a chance to take me where they will. I respectfully ask you do the same if you can.

[Kenoe]

I stopped at the whole "fruition" thing.

 

You need to understand that an MMORPG is CONSTANTLY changing and a lot of gameplay, while yes it can be tested in QA, will be bugged because QA doesn't test with gameplay. They test by pushing some buttons fifty thousand times and seeing if you can break the game by running into a corner repeatedly. That being said, there will ALWAYS be some kind of bug because there are SO many people playing the game all at once, that's millions of chances for something to go wrong that was missed in QA.

 

If you don't like the way an MMORPG is constantly changing and therefor constantly subject to bugs... Then you need to be playing console games only. Or, if you remember Red Dead Redemption... You should probably just stick to board games.

 

If you have an issue, report it and I'm sure it will be taken care of in due time. If like you said you feel you shouldn't be subject to all these bugs at any point in this game, go back to board games and save yourself a monthly fee. Just realize that you're quick to criticize that which you do not understand.

 

I fully understand where your coming from, but you have to look at this from a business sense. This is a business no matter what way you wanna call it or look at it, bottom line. The end goal of the company and its employees is to make intellectual content and to make money out of it for a living. It has been like this since the dawn of known civilization. We don't live in some fantasy world where everyone shares with everyone equally, known fact. So to stay ahead of the curve and to attract people to your product, you want to make it the best, or show that it has something another company does not. This is how bioware presented itself, and it worked. After spending time with the product, many realized it wasnt as it seemed, and we questioned the company. If they want to continue making money from us, and they do, they will improve the product according to the customer, because without the customer what, i repeat what can they do? There is added value and non added value and a cost incorporated into it. We as the customer only care about added value and the end result of the product. And don't think I'm alone in this, because this is how all marketing/business/corporate/government is run in the world.

[Brosephiine]

I work in sales and I have worked in many customer service positions over the years. I have ground breaking news for you. Not only is the customer not only the center of the universe, they are often ignorant of anything save what they THINK they want.

 

Let me be clear, mistakes and lies are not acceptable to me nor should a customer be tolerating them either, but this is not the problem I see in games. The problem I see is just an extension of what every retail employee can tell you, is a most humans seem to have this need to be babied and catered to no matter the constraints of reality.

 

I freely admit I am annoyed by the bugs, the obstruction to quests, and in general the mobs that decide they need to zerg me in my story phase and then set themselves up after I am slaughtered. I submit maybe 10-12 tickets a day. I am not that pleased with a generic email but I do know the reason for it. THIS GAME IS NEW!

 

It does not matter one iota what Beta came up with or what has gone under the bridge this passed month. I know this for a fact because even the vaunted experts of Blizzard missed glaring bugs players were happy to exploit until somebody noticed a lot of achievements were getting done way too fast. (See Safety Dance corner bug for example at Naxx.)

 

Given all the complexity and phased areas every planet comes up with, let alone layered phases to accommodate the populations, I am stunned I do not crash everyday. It is a tribute to the programmers and testers that we have this much working as we do.

 

Finally the argument about money, I love this one when it comes up. ALL products need the initial customers to pave the way for improvements and innovations of both the next generation and a decrease in the costs of future products and releases. Take a moment to look at a single TV model price point from first appearance to when it leaves a shelf forever...you will see steam a bit but it is a basic truth all companies need to make money to keep a customer happy.

 

Those of us that weather this storm of bugs and issues, and whining, may not feel it is fair that later gamers may know nothing of this but that is a poor concern to use as a blanket statement to condemn this game. If you do not want to use your money here than please unsub until you feel the game is worthy. Otherwise it is an investment to see the gameplay improve and to see the majority of issues become smoothed away.

 

I feel the frustration I do, but I also know it was never the intent to let this simply lie as it is. The myriad of gaming experience tells me we have a good one and that sadly too many FPS and instant gratification is becoming the norm. Not my cup of tea but like a good book I give all my stories a chance to take me where they will. I respectfully ask you do the same if you can.

 

You have my respect. /salute

[Brosephiine]

I fully understand where your coming from, but you have to look at this from a business sense. This is a business no matter what way you wanna call it or look at it, bottom line. The end goal of the company and its employees is to make intellectual content and to make money out of it for a living. It has been like this since the dawn of known civilization. We don't live in some fantasy world where everyone shares with everyone equally, known fact. So to stay ahead of the curve and to attract people to your product, you want to make it the best, or show that it has something another company does not. This is how bioware presented itself, and it worked. After spending time with the product, many realized it wasnt as it seemed, and we questioned the company. If they want to continue making money from us, and they do, they will improve the product according to the customer, because without the customer what, i repeat what can they do? There is added value and non added value and a cost incorporated into it. We as the customer only care about added value and the end result of the product. And don't think I'm alone in this, because this is how all marketing/business/corporate/government is run in the world.

 

THERE! THERE! You said it yourself. "If they want to continue making money from us, and they do, they will improve the product..." They WILL improve it. My issue is that people are demanding instant gratification and complaining that it wasn't perfect from the start. Of course it wasn't perfect from the start! And they WILL improve it because yes, they want our money. They need the customer in order to have a successful product. However, we the customers need to be patient while they fix the issues we have found with their product.

[Yumi-Ann]

Just thought I would throw this out there... Everyone everywhere says customer service is horrible at some point. The fact is customer support and community management personnel can not magically fix everything with the flip of a switch. I own a consulting company and work as a GM for an MMO that I will not name. If everything were magically fixed in a days time do you think large companies would pay consulting firms and management companies or even hire overseas call centers. No; they would not because all issues would automatically already be fixed. Give things time before jumping on the FFS, troll, "this game sucks" or the "I hate the developer/publisher" bandwagon. Its only been out a month not counting beta (NEVER COUNT BETAS; its a testing phase for a reason things WILL be broken and the game WILL be unplayable at some point; it is the nature of game testing and development.)

[Valeena]

If this game succeeds, this will be one of those "remember that time when ..." and how crappy it use to be? Maybe one day swtor's rough launch will be used as an example for a hopeful future for another new mmo's crappy launch. Lol I can only hope. Im patient enough to find out. Besides, $15? Meh.

[RanvirBorealas]

I am very disatisfied with the way space is set up and from what I hear on Ven Zallow everone is. We were very much looking forward to an open world space with some pvp. Other than the obvious format of SWG maybe think big like a pvp fleet battle that you can take control of a capital ship or a fighter/bomber. Feelings on this people? If you feel the same way I do please help me let them know or we will be stuck with this Starfox 64 layout.

 

You know what is ridiculous? When you go to a bookstore and buy a brand new book and then complain to the publisher that it is not a "choose your own adventure" book, when it NEVER advertised itself as such. Just because another same IP game in the same genre did something does not automatically make it gospel law it be the same in another.

 

The fact that you don't like it is your right and anyone's right, but what it "should" have according to many is not always what they designed it to have. Starfox is a classic game franchise, its well made and entertaining within it's own genre and playstyle. KOTOR had something even LESS mobile when you had the space battle segments from your turret, so compared to its predecessor SWTOR is MUCH better in space combat.

 

The fact you believe their choice of combat style is somehow a flaw is irrelevant to the game's structure and only subject to personal preference, they never said "open world massive space combat" and this is what they designed.

 

SWTOR is no more a replacement for SWG than Gears of War is to Halo, Ratchet and Clank is to Zelda or Arkham City is to Assassin's Creed. Similarities do not equal replacement and lack of meeting personal taste does not equal a failure.

[Kenoe]

THERE! THERE! You said it yourself. "If they want to continue making money from us, and they do, they will improve the product..." They WILL improve it. My issue is that people are demanding instant gratification and complaining that it wasn't perfect from the start. Of course it wasn't perfect from the start! And they WILL improve it because yes, they want our money. They need the customer in order to have a successful product. However, we the customers need to be patient while they fix the issues we have found with their product.

 

I see you only see this from a singular point of view, your own. Quite frankly I'm done trying to impart a secondary view for you to see this from. Yes they will improve, but don't take up subs time to find a median, . And in no way shape or form did I expect (nor did many others) an immediate remedy (impossible given this magnitude), but in a timely manner. Only time will tell. And the improve the product tidbit I threw in there was directly about the 1.1 patch where they seemed to walk backwards, w/e the situation was.

[Brosephiine]

I see you only see this from a singular point of view, your own. Quite frankly I'm done trying to impart a secondary view for you to see this from. Yes they will improve, but don't take up subs time to find a median, . And in no way shape or form did I expect (nor did many others) an immediate remedy (impossible given this magnitude), but in a timely manner. Only time will tell. And the improve the product tidbit I threw in there was directly about the 1.1 patch where they seemed to walk backwards, w/e the situation was.

 

You know, I see where you're coming from... But if you're gonna say that I'm seeing this only from my point of view, you could say the same about yourself. You refuse to acknowledge that maybe, JUST MAYBE that's how an MMO is. Imperfect, especially at the start.

[SevTrando]

I am very disatisfied with the way space is set up and from what I hear on Ven Zallow everone is. We were very much looking forward to an open world space with some pvp. Other than the obvious format of SWG maybe think big like a pvp fleet battle that you can take control of a capital ship or a fighter/bomber. Feelings on this people? If you feel the same way I do please help me let them know or we will be stuck with this Starfox 64 layout.

 

No. People like you need to stop complaining about space combat and understand why it's the way it is. The focus is on your character and story. This IS a BioWare game. Space combat was only added very late in the game because players wouldn't stop asking for it. It was not intended to even be a part of the game to begin with, so suck it up and have some patience.

 

And if you don't like Star Fox 64, have you ever played it? Oo

Edited January 19, 2012 by SevTrando

[wyldie]

So they have just created WoW with a Star Wars skin. not good enough

Where's the epic all in fights with the whole empire force and the space fighting, THIS IS STAR WARS!!!!! based on the movies, get some space fighting...

all I am doing is what I did in WoW, go kill some stuff on my own, bring it back to quest giver, do some dungeons with some peeps, craft some stuff.... same thing but I got a light sabre (which sadly is enough to make me wana keep playing) MMO whore

 

Most people are saying that because its an mmo they can say 'It's a work in progress'

that isn't an excuse for failing its an excuse to make something better, there is a difference!

 

If they made this a Skyrim type game... you think it would look better? play better?

I'll leave that for you to answer.

 

boom

[Brosephiine]

So they have just created WoW with a Star Wars skin. not good enough

Where's the epic all in fights with the whole empire force and the space fighting, THIS IS STAR WARS!!!!! based on the movies, get some space fighting...

all I am doing is what I did in WoW, go kill some stuff on my own, bring it back to quest giver, do some dungeons with some peeps, craft some stuff.... same thing but I got a light sabre (which sadly is enough to make me wana keep playing) MMO whore

 

Most people are saying that because its an mmo they can say 'It's a work in progress'

that isn't an excuse for failing its an excuse to make something better, there is a difference!

 

If they made this a Skyrim type game... you think it would look better? play better?

I'll leave that for you to answer.

 

boom

 

Okay, so when do you expect them to make this better? Tonight? It takes TIME. So yeah, its a work in progress. That doesn't mean they're failing, it means THEY'RE WORKING ON IT.

[blindstrike]

I wish people where aware that there are many more factors than the teh game it self making a bad experience ...

ISP , bad drivers and so on.

Lots dont even know that the performance issues can be on there end whether it be the pc or the ISP.

I understand that people are not happy about that but the emotional outcry is making me think some people should first see a docter before any thing else.

Emotinal unstable beyond control of any normal human behavior acting like a brat of 5years old that does not get his or her candy.

 

If you are unhappy feel free to express as an adult and atleast try to explain exactly what is going on than people can make heads or tails to try and help them.

The "i know and you must obey " is so childish and will not solve anything only result i some one cut the connection and to be honest i cant blame them , everyone has the right to disconnect if you get personal , you might be a customer but you are not allowed to be antisocial or rude .

 

(special note for the spell police my language is not native English so please forgive my mistakes )

[TheOneTrueRejek]

Maybe if these people complaining about the current bugs / issues (fps) and spent time looking into potential fixes the community have already found, they'd have less to ***** about.

 

Try being smart and solving problems for yourselves instead of casting blame and pointing the finger at others. Of course you are lazy and hateful/angry and will attempt no such thing.

 

I actually read up on the patch and issues/fixes before I even logged into the game. Applied some very BASIC pc knowledge to counter some issues others had posted and guess what? The game runs smoother and more beautifully that it did before.

 

Common Sense - a lost art.

 

Wait a minute, I'm not saying this release of the game is perfect. There are some foundational issues that I have no intention of agreeing with. So before you go posting I'm a 'fanboi' take time to read this post the entire way through, otherwise you're another idiot who skims over posts and replies with your own self-propelled anger/trolling.

 

/gg sirs.

[Hotchie]

So they have just created WoW with a Star Wars skin. not good enough

Where's the epic all in fights with the whole empire force and the space fighting, THIS IS STAR WARS!!!!! based on the movies, get some space fighting...

all I am doing is what I did in WoW, go kill some stuff on my own, bring it back to quest giver, do some dungeons with some peeps, craft some stuff.... same thing but I got a light sabre (which sadly is enough to make me wana keep playing) MMO whore

 

Most people are saying that because its an mmo they can say 'It's a work in progress'

that isn't an excuse for failing its an excuse to make something better, there is a difference!

 

If they made this a Skyrim type game... you think it would look better? play better?

I'll leave that for you to answer.

 

boom

 

THiS! , ugh.... you just described the way any mmo is. And while the questing may be the same for obvious reasons , everything else differs from WoW. this is not in any way a copy of World of warcraft. In fact , nothing but the questing and the fact that you kill stuff as in any other mmo is "copied" as you so firmly put it. , i do realise i went off topic in this post ... but the post im responding to is doing that as well , so it's suitable.

[Brosephiine]

So they have just created WoW with a Star Wars skin. not good enough

Where's the epic all in fights with the whole empire force and the space fighting, THIS IS STAR WARS!!!!! based on the movies, get some space fighting...

all I am doing is what I did in WoW, go kill some stuff on my own, bring it back to quest giver, do some dungeons with some peeps, craft some stuff.... same thing but I got a light sabre (which sadly is enough to make me wana keep playing) MMO whore

 

Most people are saying that because its an mmo they can say 'It's a work in progress'

that isn't an excuse for failing its an excuse to make something better, there is a difference!

 

If they made this a Skyrim type game... you think it would look better? play better?

I'll leave that for you to answer.

 

boom

 

First rule of game design: Use available resources. Of course gameplay will feel a little like WoW because that's the MMO that's been the most successful, it's what everyone knows. And MMOs can't differ too much because if one did, it wouldn't be an MMO! You can't have everything AND cake too. It's like that triangle where you can pick two, but you can't have all three.

 

I personally think this is far more interesting than WoW is right now. I love the feel of it; the graphics are great, gameplay is great, and it has a very intuitive style for interaction between you and NPCs, like Mass Effect. I think they did this very very well.

 

And instead of grinding your own professions... Make your companions do it for you! Woo!

[DarthTerath]

If this is their baby, and this was the real world... it would've been put into a care home by now.

If 6 years and a huge budget isn't enough to get a plyable working product free of bs out the door. Then they really need to go back and do what they do best i.e. make crappy pulp schlok console games for people who don't know any better...

 

I think you're underestimating how much work it takes to create an MMO, and how many things can go wrong that are not foreseen. The quantity of players finding problems and bugs is far different from a testing stage. Its a very large scale thing especially with how they went about making this.

 

I definitely agree it has some problems right now but once those get ironed out I think this will be a great game. Thats the beauty of this game is it has time to grow and get better.

[Brosephiine]

I think you're underestimating how much work it takes to create an MMO, and how many things can go wrong that are not foreseen. The quantity of players finding problems and bugs is far different from a testing stage. Its a very large scale thing especially with how they went about making this.

 

I definitely agree it has some problems right now but once those get ironed out I think this will be a great game. Thats the beauty of this game is it has time to grow and get better.

 

That's what I've been saying. D: No one will listen though, they're too interested in instant gratification.

[Creamlord]

I can understand some issues mentioned here - especially the space combat, wich needs a serious makeover (Group-based, free steering etc). But to be honest, I played other single-player RPG's as well and you have the same quests there too - kill stuff, bring items to quest giver and so on. The game dynamics doesnt change much for MMO's but what differs SWTOR from others is the awesome voice-acting.

I have played Dragon Age, Skyrim, Mass Effect, KotoR, Neverwinter Nights, The Witcher, Gothic and propably a few hundred others RPG's and some MMO's and can tell that there is a continiously evolution in progress that adds more and depth in such games. You will never have the perfect game you expect from the Developers, but if you want have realism then there is a quite simple and cheap solution -> quit gaming and step outside.

And for the big irony in this - you have the same damn quests in real life too....XD

Edited January 19, 2012 by Creamlord

[biojava]

Must admit I very rarely come onto the forums because my IQ seems to drop when i read a lot of the posts here.

 

Granted constructive critique on the game is welcome but i'm getting sick of seeing all the Doommonger threads with no point to them or the 'Oh my good PVP sucks the whole of this game will fail.'

 

I love the game, i understand it's still young and i have no doubt that things will get added that a lot of people want to see, time just needs to be given to allow the game to grow.

 

Granted people are gonna compare this game to other mmo's but at least wait till its been out for a bit instead of comparing it to games that have been out for years.

SWTOR is it's own game why would i want it to be like other mmo's (or other failed mmo's) I don't want it to be like WoW or SWG.

 

Just my thoughts on things.

 

You, dear sir, win one Holonet!

[Lord_Lunacy]

The one thing that annoys...no pisses me off more than anything...the damn U.I. Can't even begin to count how many people wanted it changed back in early beta, yet we still have that clunky pos u.i. All other things I can live with for a short while, but they really need to add window scaling and positioning. It's like driving my car with a square steering wheel...it would work, but it would be annoying as hell. Edited January 19, 2012 by Lord_Lunacy

[Norumaniac]

Maybe if these people complaining about the current bugs / issues (fps) and spent time looking into potential fixes the community have already found, they'd have less to ***** about.

 

Try being smart and solving problems for yourselves instead of casting blame and pointing the finger at others. Of course you are lazy and hateful/angry and will attempt no such thing.

 

I actually read up on the patch and issues/fixes before I even logged into the game. Applied some very BASIC pc knowledge to counter some issues others had posted and guess what? The game runs smoother and more beautifully that it did before.

 

Common Sense - a lost art.

 

Wait a minute, I'm not saying this release of the game is perfect. There are some foundational issues that I have no intention of agreeing with. So before you go posting I'm a 'fanboi' take time to read this post the entire way through, otherwise you're another idiot who skims over posts and replies with your own self-propelled anger/trolling.

 

/gg sirs.

 

 

I understand what you are saying dude, but what pisses off most ppl (myself included) is that every other game runs just great. Honestly, i can play any other game without any issues, problems, etc.

 

So what bothers me is that i just get fps issues with TOR. Thats all. I dont even wanna play everything on high, id be happy with everything on LOW but with at least 40-60 fps on Warzones.