Full Auto and Mortar Volley STILL HORRIBLY BUGGED

[Necroclysm]

With both a 46 Commando and a 50 Mercenary, this thread has become slightly amusing.

I submitted a bug report about Mortar Volley in beta after having only played the Commando.

 

After live hit and I now have extensive experience with both classes, I know why Mortar Volley looks like it is broken. The problem is appearances, and nothing else.

 

 

Death From Above does not deal damage until the same time into the channel bar as Mortar Volley. Literally the exact same position, about halfway through the bar(actually slightly MORE than halfway through).

Why it seems that the Bounty Hunter's DFA is not bugged is because the animation fits properly with what happens. When the channel starts, the Bounty Hunter jetpacks into the air and starts firing. As this animation is occurring, the channel bar is still going strong...

When it reaches just beyond the halfway point, the rockets fired start landing on the target area, dealing damage.

 

Mortar Volley, after carefully looking at it while casting, does the exact same thing. The problem is that there is not an obvious lead-in animation like the Bounty Hunter DFA. The Commando prepares his gun for Mortar Shots, plants his feet for support, then starts firing shells at the location, with shells landing and damage occurring just after the halfway point.

 

 

The entire reason for the Commando's Mortar Volley looking bugged, is in fact to make it equal to the Bounty Hunter ability in functionality. Only thing they can do to "fix" it is make the Commando have some more obvious animations of preparation, to be honest.

 

 

 

As for the alleged Unload and Full Auto bug, there is no bug here. Every channeled ability in the game works as you described it, including Unload. Is it incredibly stupid? Yes. Is it broken? No.

However, it DOES need to be changed. The talent that gives pushback protection needs to be 100% for Unload/Full Auto and keep the 75% for the other 3 abilities, otherwise Unload may as well not be on it at all.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Necroclysm

[Holden_Dissent]

The reason I think full auto is jacked is because of this:

 

You can't honestly say that 100% of the time you should have a channeled ability broken. There should always be some random element when it comes to channeled abilities. When it shortens the life 100% of the time from 1 hit, then something is up in my opinion.

[ChemicalRider]

As for the alleged Unload and Full Auto bug, there is no bug here. Every channeled ability in the game works as you described it, including Unload. Is it incredibly stupid? Yes. Is it broken? No.

However, it DOES need to be changed. The talent that gives pushback protection needs to be 100% for Unload/Full Auto and keep the 75% for the other 3 abilities, otherwise Unload may as well not be on it at all.

 

U still dont get it.. Its not about pushback, interrupts etc etc. its just about: u take dmg - u dont hit last, 3rd dmg tick on Full Auto - and its ALWAYS same, there is no xx% chance that the last dmg tick will be, or not.. when u take dmg there is ALWAYS no last dmg tick. When somone INTERRUPTS ur skill its said on skill bar INTERRUPT or the cast bar just disapera and the skill is on cooldown - so i know what interrupt is.

[Necroclysm]

U still dont get it.. Its not about pushback, interrupts etc etc. its just about: u take dmg - u dont hit last, 3rd dmg tick on Full Auto - and its ALWAYS same, there is no xx% chance that the last dmg tick will be, or not.. when u take dmg there is ALWAYS no last dmg tick. When somone INTERRUPTS ur skill its said on skill bar INTERRUPT or the cast bar just disapera and the skill is on cooldown - so i know what interrupt is.

 

I still don't get it?

Umm what?

 

Channeled abilities get a "pushback" from taking damage, just like every ability with a cast or channel time greater than 0.

Unload and Full Auto are working just like they should...

You take damage... the ability loses cast time... you lose a tick...

This is how a channeled ability works...

 

I don't know if you want it so that it increase the amount of time you have to channel, or what, but NO game does that. This is how channeled abilities behave in common use for games.

 

I am unsure what I am not getting, since I basically just said that it is working as intended despite what was described in the OP. I even described what was happening and WHY it is working as intended.

 

There is nothing I am missing here, you just want the functionality of damage taken during casting changed. Once again... this is not a bug... it is SUPPOSED to lose ticks when you take damage, end of story.

 

The idea behind this is that you take damage while focusing on "casting" an ability. This causes you to lose concentration.

What you are asking for is that when you take damage and get "pushback" on a channeled ability, it still deals the last hit. Yes, that is genius... make the spell do MORE damage per second by being hit.

The other option, which you are clearly not arguing for, is to make taking damage while channeling increase the time you must channel to finish the ability. No one does that, as it is a clumsy mechanic.

 

 

TL;DR: Whether you are confused about the terms used or not, the problem described is PUSHBACK ON TAKING DAMAGE for Unload/Full Auto. It is working as intended. If you have a problem with it, submit a SUGGESTION for what to change. I already said what would fix it in my post which you ignored by telling me that I didn't get it. The irony is astounding.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Necroclysm

[rhakoth]

Death From Above does not deal damage until the same time into the channel bar as Mortar Volley. Literally the exact same position, about halfway through the bar(actually slightly MORE than halfway through).

Why it seems that the Bounty Hunter's DFA is not bugged is because the animation fits properly with what happens. When the channel starts, the Bounty Hunter jetpacks into the air and starts firing. As this animation is occurring, the channel bar is still going strong...

When it reaches just beyond the halfway point, the rockets fired start landing on the target area, dealing damage.

 

This is incorrect. I have also tested this out on my commando and BH this morning (and several other occasions) and DFA does damage 1 sec into the cast and MV doesn't do damage until 2 secs, with 2 ticks occurring in the last second and the final tick occurring AFTER the cast bar disappears.

 

At first I too thought it was the animation timing, however it simply isn't. Mortar volley and Full Auto don't hit as quickly as their counterparts. This needs to be addresses as I won't re-roll republic until it has to try and help out with server balance.

[SeloDaoC]

Jebus christ, why are there Bounty Hunters posting such an amount of crap here?

 

This topic has been up before, its also on the PvP forum, there are tons of videos showing EXACTLY the problem with DfA dealing damage faster then Mortar Volley AND Full Auto suffering from pushback, while unload does not

 

Still theres people that have no clue..

 

examples

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qHWGM-YlPw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhLjqgC_fH8&feature=related

Edited January 21, 2012 by SeloDaoC

[va_wanderer]

And to seal the deal, here's the devs on Mortar Volley (original on Dev Tracker):

 

The Trooper's mortar volley is an animation issue not related to the technical fixes mentioned in this thread. It is however being worked on (take this as a confirmation that we are not satisfied with how the ability reacts to player input and that we intend to fix it).

 

Please understand if I'm not going to discuss more individual ability concerns in this thread to avoid derailing the topic at this point.

 

Since I see some demaind for it, I will see if I can get you guys an update on individual ability animation concerns (both balance and gameplay) in the future. You should see a number of non animation concerns with faction ability fixed in an upcoming patch on PTS.

 

-- Georg

[genesiser]

And to seal the deal, here's the devs on Mortar Volley (original on Dev Tracker):

 

I wonder if that also includes full auto. I hope so.

[Lotusfreek]

I wonder if that also includes full auto. I hope so.

 

So I have a 50 BH and a 26 Vanguard.

 

My Unload suffers pushback just like FA. I fail to see how it is broken. Except for the times I press Full auto or Unload, I start the animation and no damage is done.

[Abbysion]

So I have a 50 BH and a 26 Vanguard.

 

My Unload suffers pushback just like FA. I fail to see how it is broken. Except for the times I press Full auto or Unload, I start the animation and no damage is done.

 

I'm not entirely sure, because I only rerolled to Trooper a few days ago, but it seems you lose a tick of damage when suffering push back when doing Full Auto. I just tried it out, and my FA only did 2 ticks of damage instead of 3 after suffering push back from a mob. Basically that means you lose 1/3 of the skill's damage output. This does not happen with Unload on Bounty Hunter.

[Saprezzan]

And to seal the deal, here's the devs on Mortar Volley (original on Dev Tracker):

 

 

Hello, Blaac!

[Grimoir]

I'll sign for this as well. I have personally tested both Trooper and Bounty Hunter animations only to find that in both cases, the BH version is better, even by the slightest bit.

 

Full Auto: Damage does not start immediately due to animation(trooper plants his/her feet) delay. Lost tick when damage is taken.

 

Unload: Damage starts immediately, no animation(BH simply fires) delay. No lost tick when damage is taken.

 

 

 

Mortar Volley: 2 second delay before damage. 2 ticks during 3rd second of channel. Last tick of damage after the abilities channel. Can also move while firing the 3rd shot/tick of damage.

 

Death From Above: 1 second delay before damage. 3 ticks spread out across the remaining two seconds. No damage after the end of the abilities channel.

 

 

 

Several tests, all giving conclusive evidence to the above points.

[rusmnicolae]

uhm, i don't think the mortar is really broken,

i think that the fast pace of the game the ability is currently useless in pvp.

i see mortar as deterrent for ganging, that's my opinion, u see 3 enemy ganging a teammate, u happily mortar away, on that point they gotta move from there or risk wipe out

the isue u face is when u use it, by the time is starts to do damage, ur teammate is dead and the enemies are far away, and ur wasted ammo and time.

so on 1st impression, u can say that long activation ... bla bla is at fault, however i dont think so.

U cant have it instant, will e overpowered and as deterrent it just need a area skill denial(not interrupt ) and low damage

as deterrent for ganging i see its point in game, as area damage im against, as i vote for a skill of player oriented game , tactical , not a button spam rotation one

[ArtMonster]

mortar volley works great in PvE.

 

jsut shoot it "first" in the rotation...then you dont have to worry about any delay...they dont notice until they are knocked down. It costs so much power anyway, that it's dumb to spam it after the first shot or two, it'll drain you dry fast....you have so many other tools to use that are more effective in fast pace heats.

 

you may need to rethink what it actually meant to be used for and when.

 

 

"use your tools smart..... or die."

 

 

.

Edited January 21, 2012 by ArtMonster

[Grimoir]

uhm, i don't think the mortar is really broken,

i think that the fast pace of the game the ability is currently useless in pvp.

i see mortar as deterrent for ganging, that's my opinion, u see 3 enemy ganging a teammate, u happily mortar away, on that point they gotta move from there or risk wipe out

the isue u face is when u use it, by the time is starts to do damage, ur teammate is dead and the enemies are far away, and ur wasted ammo and time.

so on 1st impression, u can say that long activation ... bla bla is at fault, however i dont think so.

U cant have it instant, will e overpowered and as deterrent it just need a area skill denial(not interrupt ) and low damage

as deterrent for ganging i see its point in game, as area damage im against, as i vote for a skill of player oriented game , tactical , not a button spam rotation one

 

Whatisthisidonteven...? Learn how to write please. This poor excuse for a post is hard to look at, much less try to read. Structure it properly and maybe we'll be able to understand what you're trying to say. Also, the 'return/enter' key is your friend. Especially when you use it often to space your paragraphs apart. OFTEN.

 

 

The damage does not need to happen instantly, no one is saying that. The argument is that it takes 2 of the 3 total channeled seconds of the ability for troopers, and at least 1 second of the 3 second channel for BH's, before it even begins doing damage. That is a major problem.

 

That big blue/red circle painted on the ground is your area denial, the damage however is also important to make it a threat to begin with. I think the point should be that people need to be wary of clumping up when a Trooper/BH is around because of the damage output of the ability. As it is however, they're just telegraphing the fact that the designated area is going to be firebombed in a few seconds, which is more than enough time to move out of the way. Why be scared of an ability you know you'll have ample time to avoid?

[Vaspyre]

I have a 40 merc and 35 commando. Its not really a pushback on full auto as more of just being bugged. One flick of a finger and full auto will always lose a third of its dmg. Yes both unload and full auto can be pushed back but unload doesn't suffer the same bug.

 

Also death from above does seem to go off quicker, I think mortar strikes animation where you setup the cannon just needs to be sped up.

[rusmnicolae]

@grimoir

i apologize for my bad English ,structure of post and such.Actually this apology is intended for all readers.

 

other than bad structure and English typing , i really don't see from ur post the beef with my opinion in regard of mortar.

i may understand English in weird way, but what u wrote is what i wrote.

a short example

you :

Why be scared of an ability you know you'll have ample time to avoid?

me :

the isue u face is when u use it, by the time is starts to do damage, ur teammate is dead and the enemies are far away, and ur wasted ammo and time.

 

maybe is just me , is not similar ?

 

i did not say any1 said the want it instant, i said u cant have it, so a delay on activation is mandatory, just the delay now we have it is too long.

 

I have a 40 merc and 35 commando. Its not really a pushback on full auto as more of just being bugged. One flick of a finger and full auto will always lose a third of its dmg. Yes both unload and full auto can be pushed back but unload doesn't suffer the same bug.

 

Also death from above does seem to go off quicker, I think mortar strikes animation where you setup the cannon just needs to be sped up.

 

he put it better than me. we cant have it reduced to much , just reduced a bit from the current activation way until will become at least threatening.

for me the period seems directly related to how fast things happens in areas mortar is usable:capping,disarming, helping a swarmed teammate

 

 

eh, prolly is my hiper uber bad English.

Edited January 21, 2012 by rusmnicolae

[laelgon]

I would love for this to be fixed in the patch that's supposed to be fixing responsiveness. I don't have as much of a problem with the bugginess of mortar volley and full auto in PvE, but in PvP they're pretty much useless due to how long it takes for the skill to actually start doing damage, not to mention the times full auto just plain doesn't activate, even though the channel bar is going.

[Echouza]

If you are using anything besides instant cast abilities in pvp, you aren't doing it right. I'm no pvp pro, but if you're not moving in PVP you're most likely cc-ed/useless or already dead.

 

p.s. Mortar Volley and Full Auto are both horribly bugged and barely useable even PVE.

 

I don't know what you're talking about, every time i use full auto i end it on the bar with the normal shot you first get and in that instant i do a load of damage most of the time killing whatever i was shooting at. so either i don't have this problem everybody else has or people just don't know how to use it..

[Echouza]

I have no gripes, these are all little quality of life changes. I smash in pvp still on my commando.

 

I agree, the trooper is a bad muther. i use the mortar more as a first strike when they're not looking. especially good in PVE. with all the power the mortar gives it's only fair that it has its defects. although i wouldn't be complaining if they made it better.

[Grimoir]

@grimoir

i apologize for my bad English ,structure of post and such.Actually this apology is intended for all readers.

 

maybe is just me , is not similar ?

 

i did not say any1 said the want it instant, i said u cant have it, so a delay on activation is mandatory, just the delay now we have it is too long.

 

 

 

he put it better than me. we cant have it reduced to much , just reduced a bit from the current activation way until will become at least threatening.

for me the period seems directly related to how fast things happens in areas mortar is usable:capping,disarming, helping a swarmed teammate

 

 

eh, prolly is my hiper uber bad English.

 

Well I will then extend an apology myself. I certainly don't expect people to be speaking perfect english, as that is not fair on the internet. I hope my criticism was taken more as advice on how to make it easier to read

 

I suppose we did say similar things. And, in effect, you were able to get your point across considering I basically just restated what you wrote. Having what you said in the back of my head clearly influenced my writing =)

 

I digress however. It is still important that we ALL get our point across that these are skills that are plainly broken and need fixing. BioWare has explicitly stated they are looking into Mortar Volley(see earlier post with quote), but no word on Full Auto as of yet.

[SeloDaoC]

Full Auto: Damage does not start immediately due to animation(trooper plants his/her feet) delay. Lost tick when damage is taken.

 

 

Full auto is like, "Ill spread my leggs really far apart..then lower my weapon a bit..then shrug my shoulders a little bit more...then shoot"

 

It takes a damn long time for the shooting to actually start

[krameriffic]

I have a 40 merc and 35 commando. Its not really a pushback on full auto as more of just being bugged. One flick of a finger and full auto will always lose a third of its dmg. Yes both unload and full auto can be pushed back but unload doesn't suffer the same bug.

 

Also death from above does seem to go off quicker, I think mortar strikes animation where you setup the cannon just needs to be sped up.

 

The damage isn't actually delayed all that much, but you are guaranteed to lose 1/3 of the damage from taking any damage. Here's my theory:

 

The talent that reduces pushback suffered while channeling full auto does not work on it. I don't know if the mercenary equivalent works on unload, but I do know that the commando version works properly on grav round (it affects all rounds and full auto). You suffer almost no pushback ever while firing grav rounds while you lose a lot of channel on full auto. To compare it to another class with similar mechanics, sorcerer force lightning gets a talent from the madness tree that reduces pushback suffered while casting it by 70%. You feel the difference of this talent: force lightning suffers very little pushback with it and you typically get all 4 ticks of the damage with it.

Edited January 22, 2012 by krameriffic

[HighFiveGuy]

First of all the animation is unecessarily slow, causing problems in pvp.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR_8zNx-dQo

 

Go to 1:51 for how the animation on Full Auto should look.

[Quashar]

I still don't get it?

Umm what?

 

Channeled abilities get a "pushback" from taking damage, just like every ability with a cast or channel time greater than 0.

Unload and Full Auto are working just like they should...

You take damage... the ability loses cast time... you lose a tick...

This is how a channeled ability works...

 

I don't know if you want it so that it increase the amount of time you have to channel, or what, but NO game does that. This is how channeled abilities behave in common use for games.

 

I am unsure what I am not getting, since I basically just said that it is working as intended despite what was described in the OP. I even described what was happening and WHY it is working as intended.

 

There is nothing I am missing here, you just want the functionality of damage taken during casting changed. Once again... this is not a bug... it is SUPPOSED to lose ticks when you take damage, end of story.

 

The idea behind this is that you take damage while focusing on "casting" an ability. This causes you to lose concentration.

What you are asking for is that when you take damage and get "pushback" on a channeled ability, it still deals the last hit. Yes, that is genius... make the spell do MORE damage per second by being hit.

The other option, which you are clearly not arguing for, is to make taking damage while channeling increase the time you must channel to finish the ability. No one does that, as it is a clumsy mechanic.

 

 

TL;DR: Whether you are confused about the terms used or not, the problem described is PUSHBACK ON TAKING DAMAGE for Unload/Full Auto. It is working as intended. If you have a problem with it, submit a SUGGESTION for what to change. I already said what would fix it in my post which you ignored by telling me that I didn't get it. The irony is astounding.

 

He obviously doesn't know what push backs are and you are perfectly correct in your statements.

 

Problem here is that someone here has yet to explain the problem correctly. You see, with lets say , Sith Sorc and his channeled force lighting, he gets a few ticks of damage, let's say 4-5 (can't remember exactly), if he gets attacked he will loose some of those. Now if you pick up a talent that reduces ability push backs for force lighting you'll NOT loose more than 1 tick on most of the occasions. that's a 20-25% damage loss. Still worth casting.

 

Now if you take a look at the trooper we only get 3 "ticks" of damage, loosing one of those is 33% damage reduced already making the skill not worth using compared to cost. Then if you pick up a 75% push back reduction skill, it won't give you jack ****. You still loose the 33% damage on a single hit.

 

It's working as intended but it should be changed. Ability push backs are working as intended but picking up a 75% reduction on those should have a point, especially that it requires 3 skill points. The only fix I can see hitting this skill and BH's equivalent is changing it from per sec to 4-5 tics as other channeled abilities do.

 

 

2. I'm perfectly happy with mortar volley as it is now. You either have people move out of the range or run into it, big deal. I'd rather have a 0,5s delay than being shot into the air while shouting "Hey! Here! Target me!"

 

Also, as people get to 50 and start getting champion gear they realize it's often not worth walking out of AoE. Most of AoE abilities deal 1-2k damage. Mortar Volley/Death From Above are the only ones that you should avoid, always. If anything needs to be changed, it's BH's animation as it makes THEIR skill inferior to ours.

 

Everyone on these boards are trying to defend their own class, please try looking at everything more objectively.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Quashar