Carnage rocks for pvp... and pve!

[TheNeftLut]

I really don't get what everyone keeps complaining about! Carnage is awesome for both PVE and PVP, and there are next to no problems with it right now.

 

If any of you have questions, I feel obliged to answer the community.. because right now I feel like my Marauder is overpowered! Carnage is so strong, so fast, and doesn't rely on any cooldowns except for the defensive ones.

 

My pvp tips:

-You have to wait on gore sometimes, but switch targets to someone in light armor while you do. Don't attack heavy armor unless gore is up. The damage is to weak and could be better used elsewhere.

- Charge, Battering Assult, Gore, Massacre, Force Scream. That is the standard rotation. Of course you will never be able to always follow through with that.. and you just have to access the situation as it comes. That's the standard opener though, and it should do roughly half their life... or 1/4 if they're well geared.

-Don't forget to blow your trinkets and biochem consumables. Don't have biocham consumables? Might want to consider dropping your current profession, because these are godly. Pop them WHILE you're charging. Do the same with Berserk that way you don't find yourself spamming the button mid combat.

-DONT FORGET TO USE SMASH! It costs 1 rage if you specced correctly, and the dmg per rage used payoff is amazing. As carnage I find myself gore'ing and then smashing a lot. A lot. You can still pull big numbers, as much a 3.5k if you're really well geared. 100% armor pen smash is strong!!

-Use force camouflage. A lot. It's beautiful. Even if its not just to escape a mass of people, it's still amazing!! 2 on 1, use it... and there's a good chance one person will have ran off to another target, leaving you with a 1 on 1. That's huge. Even just to run to a new person, use it so that they dont see a marauder charging into combat and all hopping onto you.

-Don't just force charge every guy you see. You'll probably get knocked back. Run in sometimes, then charge after he's used the knockback and go all out on him!! Also, use charge to interrupt! very important.

-KEEP CLOAK ON SHADOW UP at ALL TIMES!!! half your WZ should have this baby up!

 

Those are just tips... im here to answer any questions/concerns, and help in any way I can. Stop with the carnage hate guys, it's absolutely OP!

 

For those of you claiming we don't have enough CC... shut up. We have a shout that's a AOE 6 second Stun. Use it more. A lot more. We have ravage snare, and a 10m ranged snare. That's huge. Oh wait, we also have force choke. Stop complaining about CC! We can control a group of people well, just use them properly. Don't forget Obfuscate which turns melee classes into useless pieces of ****, basically another CC in a sense.

[Munx]

I completly agree, I frequently raid NM with 2 other marauders who use anni spec, and while they will never admit it I am absolutely destroying them as far as dps goes.

 

This is obvious by agroo, and becomes even more obvious vs infernal council.

 

And while my spec specifically avoid pvp specific talents in my talent tree, I still do GREAT in pvp, the only advantage anni seems to have is that theyr spec require less hotkey contr ol, nifty heals, and they make insane ball runners.

 

With the right Stat balance I can easily do as much as 2.3k per massacre hit with mainhand alone + offhand dmg + ataru forced proc + ataru forced proc from next attack

 

And when on adrenals etc I can more or less spam 4k crits.

 

Carnage when built, geared and played correctly will absolutely demolish the other specs damagewise.

 

How ever in regards to lack of cc, I would say marauder does infact lack some cc. the AoE stun you speak of is not so much a stun as its a mezmerise which is broken on damage.

 

Also I would not say I am in any risk of feeling overpowered, but I don't feel underpowered

Edited January 18, 2012 by Munx

[ChaeTakbae]

The other day I tired to spec Carnage and I liked it and hated it at the same time. It's strengths are clear but so are it's disadvantages. My first problem was Rage generation, I never seem to have enough rage to Gore Massacre Force Scream in PvP because I am so busy doing other things. Another thing I dislike about rage is that while it's potential is so great it takes way too long to set up to be viable. You need to Build Rage -> Gore -> Massacre -> Get Execution -within six seconds > Force Scream. When you aren't set up for a Force Scream your damage is subpar compared to Annihilation. Makes me wonder why do all that for one Force Scream when I can just Annihilate and still do roughly the same amount of damage.

[UrgentFury]

The other day I tired to spec Carnage and I liked it and hated it at the same time. It's strengths are clear but so are it's disadvantages. My first problem was Rage generation, I never seem to have enough rage to Gore Massacre Force Scream in PvP because I am so busy doing other things. Another thing I dislike about rage is that while it's potential is so great it takes way too long to set up to be viable. You need to Build Rage -> Gore -> Massacre -> Get Execution -within six seconds > Force Scream. When you aren't set up for a Force Scream your damage is subpar compared to Annihilation. Makes me wonder why do all that for one Force Scream when I can just Annihilate and still do roughly the same amount of damage.

 

Man with the Lower CD on BA im never rage starved. Every once and a while i toss out a regualr assault. I love my spec, Ive tried the other two and will never try them again. Ravage with the root is really nice when ravage and root works properly. Its soooo Bugged these last few weeks. Hopefully gets fixed soon.

 

The tree is pretty awesome it just suffers from the poor class design of the marauder as a whole.

Once we get our Knockback and a stun we shouldnt have anymore issues. Well other then Biowares rediculous ability delay bug.

[Sabbathius]

Once we get our Knockback and a stun we shouldnt have anymore issues.

 

Boy are you optimistic!

[Xyaerran]

What is your spec build?

[Naethion]

Imo, Carnage is like Rage spec. Its too dependent on its one move (gore), like rage spec is with Smash. I prefer annihilation spec. But Goodluck though

[Ohmaitakei]

Carnage is for when you are sober and can think, rage is when you are drunk and don't need to think (as well as having good karma and that choke sticks)

[Kibaken]

The other day I tired to spec Carnage and I liked it and hated it at the same time. It's strengths are clear but so are it's disadvantages. My first problem was Rage generation, I never seem to have enough rage to Gore Massacre Force Scream in PvP because I am so busy doing other things. Another thing I dislike about rage is that while it's potential is so great it takes way too long to set up to be viable. You need to Build Rage -> Gore -> Massacre -> Get Execution -within six seconds > Force Scream. When you aren't set up for a Force Scream your damage is subpar compared to Annihilation. Makes me wonder why do all that for one Force Scream when I can just Annihilate and still do roughly the same amount of damage.

 

You don't >need< Execute. Tying Ravage in with Gore is a hell of a lot more effective than tying Execute on with Scream. Is it nice? Yes, but it probably won't happen that often.

[BeyondMagic]

getting rage shouldnt be a problem when playing with carnage spec.

 

you get 3 sec reduced cd on battering assault

 

blood frenzy gives you 1 rage every 6 seconds

 

massacre and scream cost only 2 rage.

 

sure if you want to go all out with gore and comboing everything you have you might need to save some rage 1st but usually this happens when your initiating fight and you get plenty of rage from 1st charge and battering assault.

 

 

what comes to setting everything up for gore, i think rage spec is even worse, you set up to get the big *** smash hit, but theres no real follow up for that.

 

with carnage spec you have very steady damage.

 

i dont really see annihilation as pvp option since you dont get the 2 immobilizing effects,15% movement speed or slow/root removing force camoflauge.

[Foxcolt]

My pvp tips:

-You have to wait on gore sometimes, but switch targets to someone in light armor while you do. Don't attack heavy armor unless gore is up. The damage is to weak and could be better used elsewhere.

- Charge, Battering Assult, Gore, Massacre, Force Scream. That is the standard rotation. Of course you will never be able to always follow through with that.. and you just have to access the situation as it comes. That's the standard opener though, and it should do roughly half their life... or 1/4 if they're well geared.

 

Stopped reading there..

 

There is so much wrong with these two points that I don't even know where to start.

[UrgentFury]

Boy are you optimistic!

 

Heh i was until i logged in today. I am now convinced this game should have been pushed back a year and much less focus on voice over. Gameplay is suffering much more then i ever imagined

[miliways]

I used to think Mara was really underpowered, but I think you're right.

 

A) you really start to come into your power as you approach 50. It seems we're a bit weaker than the others at lower levels, lots of our VERY important talents are at the very end of the trees, and some of our better abilities don't come until later. And we really need good gear. (now that 50s have their own bracket, pvp should be much easier)

 

B) this really, REALLY is the hardest class in the game right now, highest skill cap. People need to realize this going in. If you play it right, its actually pretty awesome and pretty fun. But holy moly are there lots of abilities, and very situational. You gotta know when to use all of them.

 

One of my biggest problems was that force scream seemed kinda goofy, so I didn't use it much. Big mistake. You can't ignore any of your abilities, and there aren't any simple rotations.

 

Using what stuns, cc, and interrupts we have at the right moment is CRUCIAL.

 

I still feel AWFUL squishy, but I'm doing much better than I used to.

 

Challenging class, but feels rewarding to master it

[TheNeftLut]

Stopped reading there..

 

There is so much wrong with these two points that I don't even know where to start.

 

Please elaborate.

Don't misunderstand me, this isn't what I always do-at all. However, that is a pretty standard opener that is very effective. Yea you could save your gore for a Ravage then FS... or berserk, gore, and massacre x4 with trinkets popped, but... that wasn't really my point. This was just a "standard" pattern you'll be repeating often. At least I do and its very effective.

 

I tend to almost always use massacre before force scream as a precaution. That little blood frenzy icon is too small to see in the chaos of pvp. Once we can get our own mods, I look forward to seeing one that makes it clear when BF is up and when its down.

 

And if you disagree with switching to light armor when gore is down, I'd like to hear what you have to say about it. Very circumstantial, of course, however if you have the option you definitely maximize your dmg output by doing so. I realize that isn't always the point... but in most cases, the idea is to burn someone down asap leaving you with less enemies to face

[Foxcolt]

Please elaborate.

Don't misunderstand me, this isn't what I always do-at all. However, that is a pretty standard opener that is very effective. Yea you could save your gore for a Ravage then FS... or berserk, gore, and massacre x4 with trinkets popped, but... that wasn't really my point. This was just a "standard" pattern you'll be repeating often. At least I do and its very effective.

 

I tend to almost always use massacre before force scream as a precaution. That little blood frenzy icon is too small to see in the chaos of pvp. Once we can get our own mods, I look forward to seeing one that makes it clear when BF is up and when its down.

 

And if you disagree with switching to light armor when gore is down, I'd like to hear what you have to say about it. Very circumstantial, of course, however if you have the option you definitely maximize your dmg output by doing so. I realize that isn't always the point... but in most cases, the idea is to burn someone down asap leaving you with less enemies to face

 

On the first point -

 

With the ravage root it would be most beneficial to charge -> ba -> massacre -> gore -> ravage -> force scream. If timed right you can get both in your gore. Really at least in my experience to make carnage really "count" you almost have to get ravage and scream in a single gore in order to really damage your target. Anything else and your just gimping yourself unless your going for a > 10% health target or something.

 

Second point -

I don't think people realize how little armor has to do with damage in this game. It only mitigates certain types of attacks. That plus the fact that you've got tanks rolling around in light armor (Shadows/assassins) and that there are so many damage reduction talents in the game. If carnage is as good as you say it shouldn't be limited to the types of armor you fight based on your cooldowns.

 

Now don't get me wrong..carnage is my favorite spec out our 3, it's just in it's current state I don't believe it stacks up as good as rage or annihilation. I do look forward to switching back when/if it gets buffed or if gear scales it better than the other two.

[ScooterJunky]

can you post your point distribution?

[Fobfather]

I agree with the OP. I've been leveling with carnage from the beginning, and have a hybrid pve/pvp spec that seems to be awesome. If it's not a lowbie team vs a republic premade, I usually end up in the top 3 damage done, with about 5-8 medals per match. If i have a pocket healer, I feel pretty much unstoppable. The amount of control is great with the preemptive use of force choke, and specc'd Deadly throw (lmao @ immobilizing the ball carrier over a fire when my force choke is down). The extra 15% run speed is the cherry on top.

 

In PVE, it was pretty intense having to actually use almost all of your abilities and CD's to chain pull groups. I have been using Jaesa since I acquired her and I refuse to use Quinn as he's on my **** list and I would kill him if I could. (although I do admit t hat having Quinn makes things 1000% easier with chain pulling groups w/out channeling hatred). Things get much easier once you reach massacre in the talent tree. Just keep up to date with buying commendation gear on whatever planet your on, and tough it out as the class gets easier and more enjoyable in the higher lvls.

 

Below is a link to my build. I also considered taking points out of Quick Recovery and putting it in Malice as I rarely use sweeping slash and smash, also coupled with the fact that every Force scream is a crit because of the Towering Rage ability that can be triggered pretty much any time you want. I also considered taking points out of Unbound but the added mobility has saved my *** quite a few times in warzones. Any comments are welcome.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100bcZhGbbddrRrsZR.1

[Soulfighter]

why are the forums so full of people with little to no experience and yet still willing to teach others and state what is best and what is not ?

[ThisGuyThat]

I mean in all fairness no one could argue that carnage is somehow unplayable. It certainly has its perks and if nothing else can only be better than vicious slash spam. With that being said, in competitive pvp carnage is like a wanna be op-it packs all its damage into 6 seconds. Sadly in those 6 seconds an op dishes out twice as much, and it has the tools optimise when it uses those 6 seconds (stealth and a stunning opener) while the moment a marauder uses gore he just has to pray he doesn't get knocked back/stunned/snared/target knocked back by teammate/animation glitch. Lots of praying as a carnage marauder, really.

[swHERO]

I have been playing with Annihilation alot, i have played Carnage aswell pvp.

 

Ill say they are both awesome, Anni i pref cause of it have more survivel, which in pvp is a good thing, and it really have some nice dmg aswell.

 

Carnage has some really nice dmg, and i love the gameplay with carnage FORCE SCREAM is just aswesome love doing it, tho i miss some healing effect. And 3 sec more cd on force charge + range 10-30 instead of anni is 0-30 specced. If carnage had 12 sec cd and 0-30 range + some kind of healing i would chose that 100% ..

 

But both are great, depends how you wanna play, and what you gonna do with em.

[Ichinoez]

I completly agree, I frequently raid NM with 2 other marauders who use anni spec, and while they will never admit it I am absolutely destroying them as far as dps goes.

 

 

Carnage when built, geared and played correctly will absolutely demolish the other specs damagewise.

 

 

Also I would not say I am in any risk of feeling overpowered, but I don't feel underpowered

 

 

How do you know you destory them in dps when you we don't have a dmg meter yet? I mean I can understand that because I KNOW that carnage is really good.. But there is no proof which one is the better one..

Edited January 19, 2012 by Ichinoez

[DarthBoga]

On the first point -

 

With the ravage root it would be most beneficial to charge -> ba -> massacre -> gore -> ravage -> force scream. If timed right you can get both in your gore. Really at least in my experience to make carnage really "count" you almost have to get ravage and scream in a single gore in order to really damage your target. Anything else and your just gimping yourself unless your going for a > 10% health target or something.

 

Second point -

I don't think people realize how little armor has to do with damage in this game. It only mitigates certain types of attacks. That plus the fact that you've got tanks rolling around in light armor (Shadows/assassins) and that there are so many damage reduction talents in the game. If carnage is as good as you say it shouldn't be limited to the types of armor you fight based on your cooldowns.

 

Now don't get me wrong..carnage is my favorite spec out our 3, it's just in it's current state I don't believe it stacks up as good as rage or annihilation. I do look forward to switching back when/if it gets buffed or if gear scales it better than the other two.

 

it's absolutely no use using force scream with gore, lol. it deals the sort of damage that ignores armor anyway.

 

but wait, your opinion is it doesn't stack up? very funny how you are so certain, because we don't know. i might as well say hybrid all the specs is the best because i KNOW man! i don't even have to give an argument or anything, the only one i need to convince is me right?

 

by the way, the stuff you are saying about armor is ****. tankasins have MUCH more armor than marauder because of dark charge, and they go down much harder. especially for marauders, armor IS important, since almost all our damage is white and not yellow. (excluding smash, scream, and rupture AFAIK)

 

just to be clear, in a perfect mmo and assuming BALANCE (which may or may not be in effect), annihilation will NEVER EVER deal more damage than carnage, since it gets healing.

 

 

I mean in all fairness no one could argue that carnage is somehow unplayable. It certainly has its perks and if nothing else can only be better than vicious slash spam. With that being said, in competitive pvp carnage is like a wanna be op-it packs all its damage into 6 seconds. Sadly in those 6 seconds an op dishes out twice as much, and it has the tools optimise when it uses those 6 seconds (stealth and a stunning opener) while the moment a marauder uses gore he just has to pray he doesn't get knocked back/stunned/snared/target knocked back by teammate/animation glitch. Lots of praying as a carnage marauder, really.

 

just because you can't play something doesn't mean it's broken. and you do realise ops have to wait longer to do their rotation again, while a carnage marauder will just keep going until they're dead. i kill ops in my sleep. concerning knockbacks, why don't you use charge > gore > ravage just after the person knockbacks you eh?

Edited January 19, 2012 by DarthBoga

[chainsawsamurai]

it's absolutely no use using force scream with gore, lol. it deals the sort of damage that ignores armor anyway.

 

but wait, your opinion is it doesn't stack up? very funny how you are so certain, because we don't know. i might as well say hybrid all the specs is the best because i KNOW man! i don't even have to give an argument or anything, the only one i need to convince is me right?

 

by the way, the stuff you are saying about armor is ****. tankasins have MUCH more armor than marauder because of dark charge, and they go down much harder. especially for marauders, armor IS important, since almost all our damage is white and not yellow. (excluding smash, scream, and rupture AFAIK)

 

just to be clear, in a perfect mmo and assuming BALANCE (which may or may not be in effect), annihilation will NEVER EVER deal more damage than carnage, since it gets healing.

 

It is pretty clear you don't know how the combat system works, so I'll lay it out for you.

 

For starters Armor mitigates all Kinetic and Energy damage, regardless of whether or not it is from a Melee, Ranged, Force, or Tech attack.

 

Defense and Shield help mitigate/avoid all Melee and Ranged attacks.

 

Force Scream is a Force attack which deals Kinetic damage. It bypasses defense and shield but is still mitigated by armor.

 

White attacks = Melee/Ranged

Yellow attacks = Force/Tech

 

This gets a little tricky in the case of Rupture. The up front damage is considered a Melee attack (white), the DoT is not classified as a Melee attack (Force probably? and is Yellow).

 

Armor is important because most of a Marauders attacks are Kinetic/Energy and thus mitigated by Armor's damage reduction. That doesn't have anything to do with "white" or "yellow" however.

 

So it is perfectly sensible to use Force Scream after Gore because then the attack will bypass Armor, Defense, and Shield.

 

The Ataru Form procs themselves I haven't tested. They may very well be considered Force and bypass defenses (Energy damage still deals with Armor). I would have to do some pretty tedious testing to see if they are mitigated by defenses or capable of procing off of a dodged/shielded attack.

[oMGitsree]

The other day I tired to spec Carnage and I liked it and hated it at the same time. It's strengths are clear but so are it's disadvantages. My first problem was Rage generation, I never seem to have enough rage to Gore Massacre Force Scream in PvP because I am so busy doing other things. Another thing I dislike about rage is that while it's potential is so great it takes way too long to set up to be viable. You need to Build Rage -> Gore -> Massacre -> Get Execution -within six seconds > Force Scream. When you aren't set up for a Force Scream your damage is subpar compared to Annihilation. Makes me wonder why do all that for one Force Scream when I can just Annihilate and still do roughly the same amount of damage.

 

Battering assault seems to keep my rage up very nicely. I find that if you jump in you yield 4 rage, force choke yields 4 rage and battering assault yields 8 rage. There are plenty of ways to keep up rage.

[Shadlicious]

Carnage Spec

 

There are 2 points movable, I prefer to put them into Erupting Fury or Stagger since I am PvE this is also my PvE spec.

 

I have no real downtime in my rotation unless I mess up then I have to wait about 1 to 2 seconds. Its a discipline not to mess up your rotation, it throws the whole thing off.

 

Sadly unforgiving but highly rewarding in your damage outputs IMO.

 

Its not for everyone.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Shadlicious