Why be mediocre when you can be exceptional? How about some innovation?

[Dreossk]

You are meant to level multiple times in SWTOR... Just like when you completed KOTOR, what did you do? You started all over again taking a different path.

 

This game is for altaholics and die hard KOTOR fans which there are many.

 

I didn't wanted to start KotOR again after finishing it and when I did a few years later, I couldn't even finish Taris because of the awful combat and the graphics. I finished my story in SWTOR and I don't want to start another character and do most of the same thing all over again. MMO don't survive by people making alts, they survive by having actual content and features, features that they lied about having in this case.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Dreossk

[Felioats]

Here's some innovation for ya.

http://i.imgur.com/UmcMV.jpg

 

That's... depressing.

 

And grounds to sue for copyright infringement, actually. There's no way that isn't a direct and intentional copy.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Felioats

[mecher]

Couldn't have said it better myself. They could have used an ability system like KOTORs, or SOMETHING different, yet chose to make a clone of every MMO that has bombed recently (except with companions and voice acting which I do enjoy greatly).

 

Why do developers think they can pull people from WoW by doing the same exact thing? Or better yet bring people that are sick of WoW into a game that is exactly the same. We aren't tired of the setting (at least I'm not), we are tired of the mechanics. It makes no sense.

 

Greatly saddens me. I'll play for a while but I have no doubt I'm going to get bored quickly.

 

First paragraph = stupidity.

 

You think turn base will satisfy you ADHD kids?

 

And why do developers think they can pull WoW with the same thing? Because it's what WoW did. WoW did NOTHING innovate or different except one thing. Dumb down the MMO standards for the masses.

 

And here we are with the result of that as this forum topic proves.

[Serosen]

There is profit in it. Innovation is usually rewarded with profit. Look at World of Warcraft. It took most of the really crappy things about EverQuest, such as:

 

• Draconian death penalties and other completely unecessary time sinks that did nothing to make the game harder but simply made it took longer.
  
• Requiring a large amount of players to get just about anything done.
  

 

... and kept the fun things that EverQuest contained, plus added a few more dinky things (such as disguising grinding with questing) and voila! Instant millions.

 

Now look at just about any other title that has released since then. They're trying to emulate what World of Warcraft does, but why are people going to jump ship to Rift, AION, etc., when they don't do anything that their current game doesn't already do? They don't. They buy the game, putz around for a bit, then quit.

 

in·no·va·tion/ˌinəˈvāSHən/

Noun:

The action or process of innovating.

A new method, idea, product, etc: "technological innovations".

 

Nothing Blizzard introduced into WoW was ever a new idea, method or product. What they did do is refine existing ideas.

[mecher]

I finished my story in SWTOR and I don't want to start another character and do most of the same thing all over again. MMO don't survive by people making alts, they survive by having actual content and features, features that they lied about having in this case.

 

 

Funny as I'm pretty sure alts is how WoW is alive now.

 

And what features did they lie about? Go on and list them.

[Serosen]

Funny as I'm pretty sure alts is how WoW is alive now.

 

And what features did they lie about? Go on and list them.

 

Yeah the only reason I kept playing WoW was leveling alts. Everyone I know who still plays also has a bunch of max level alts.

[Dreossk]

Funny as I'm pretty sure alts is how WoW is alive now.

 

And what features did they lie about? Go on and list them.

 

They said it would contain all expected AAA MMO features. We have yet to see most of them.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Dreossk

[uadarth]

I don't think the problem is with the game or the story. This game has been out for how long now? not even a month yet and there are plenty of people that are level 50 due to space baring/hardcore play. The issue is not that there is not enough content but that people zip through it in order to grind to 50. Then they complain that there is simply not enough offered. The issue is with you, not the endgame.

 

Month and a week.

[mecher]

They said it would contain all expected AAA MMO features. We have yet to see most of them.

 

Source? And what features doesn't it have?

[uadarth]

They already announced a new planet in the next update that will include new single player content as well as working on dynamic universe events.

 

I do find it funny that people say SWTOR isn't innovative compared to X MMO. I can't remember any MMO really being innovative except UO and EQ1, everything since then has just been polish or slight changes to the system. Same as shooters, RTS's and any other genre. For the most part they haven't changed much since the 80's and have been slowly getting polish. It took the early 80's until Total War came out to get any real innovation in RTS's.

 

But yes, for some reason Bioware should be held to a different standard than the entire gaming community for the last 30 years............

 

Umm, Asheron's Call and Eve.

[Dreossk]

Source? And what features doesn't it have?

 

Source is things they said numerous times that are known by anyone who followed the game in the last years.

 

- housing like in SWG with every item of the game being droppable and movable anywhere in the house

- complete ship customization like in Galaxies (interior and exterior)

- real space combat (with atmospheric)

- city PvP raid

- PvP perks and bases

- social things in cantina like pazaak, sabacc and casino on Nar Shaddaa

- complete racing setup on many planets with vehicle tuning and customization

- complete character customization including post creation

- appearance tab with clothing over the armor with dyes, etc

- swimming

- day/night cycle

- add life to the world by giving adding hundreds of NPC in the cities and give them movements and animation instead of the current awful 24/7 frozen empty worlds

- redo cinematics so they aren't so stiff, laughable, awful and poorly made

- reason to go back and stuff to do on the previous planets

- guild emblem on armor, identification, ship (with complete customization like SWG)

- environment interaction

- more diverse skills like in Champions Online with skills interacting with other skills

- GM event, dynamic event and RP tools like in SWG

 

They have a lot to do because at this moment, the game is too shallow.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Dreossk

[JansanRuno]

I didn't read any of the OP's post because it was too long but I disagree with whatever it says .. I think.

[Yfelsung]

Yea that's cool and all but that car does have a different result than one without one hmmmmm? Ahh now I can use the restroom and still drive at the same time sweet.

 

Well, at least I now understand why you're so easily impressed by GW2.

 

The most innovative MMO I personally see on the horizon is The Secret World.

 

Could suck, but at least they're actually going WAY outside the box and ditching classes and levels.

[DeathDiciple]

I don't think people should confuse AAA mmos with niche-based games either. If Eve is more up someone's alley, I dont' know why they'd be supporting anything like TOR in the first place.

 

EVE is totally different beast, different mindset. Definitely never gonna be for everyone. The moment they tried to step away from 'niche' views and put in avatars/PI/WS is the moment it started its downfall...

 

But anyways, it is example of HUGE number of choices, as opposed to 'one and only' endgame. And that is something to consider here. You can play market games, you can go full indy, you can go hunting sleepers (and actually fight AI that will keep you on your toes instead), run around unclaimed space claiming its riches (until you get caught into a gatecamp anyways ). Not gonna touch pvp aspects as its pointless to compare a game where you lose everything and a game where you can't lose anything.

 

While being 'harsh and unforgiving sandbox' is niche, there are a lot of ideas that are not. I would love to see Sleeper/Sansha AI instead of scripted bosses, and I would love to see crafting system that actually drives the market as opposed to being useless. As well as real territorial PVP and unique resources available only in 'uncharted worlds' etc.

[mecher]

Source is things they said numerous times that are known by anyone who followed the game in the last years.

 

 

You lose automatically when you can't even name one source for your list. Pathetic.

[Kirkkh]

"Based on metrics what we're seeing is the people who get to 50, who aren't the 'I play 50 hours a week' kind are able to get through Eternity Vault. Like, the casual level 50 players. So that's really exciting and that's what I want..."

 

From Bioware dev.

[Dreossk]

You lose automatically when you can't even name one source for your list. Pathetic.

 

Just look on Google, it will take the same amount of time for you than for me and you are the one that want it.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Dreossk

[Cragen]

I absolutely agree OP, though I doubt we will see much innovation in Swtor or even a anything that will make the world feel more alive.

 

Kinda get the feeling it is practically impossible to do anything that is not heavily instanced on account of how terrible the Hero Engine is. Its always fun to see games that get sold on a engine that is far from finished.

 

Maybe in couple years time Bioware have manage to band aid the engine enough to do some rudimentary things that one would except for a MMO from 2003, but as it stands now its not looking good.

[uadarth]

I'd say it's more akin to saying that a bike with 3 wheels is an innovation over a bike with 2.

 

Is it different? Sure.

 

But does that difference really accomplish anything new? Nope.

 

Sure it does. It creates a stable bicycle like vehicle for those without the coordination(kids) to use a bike.

[mecher]

Just look on Google, it will take the same amount of time for you than for me and you are the one that want it.

 

Not going to waste my time. Provide sources for outrageous claims or ****.

[TheHeadCapper]

- swimming

 

Seriously?

 

Swimming in heavy armor with swords or blasters or whatever has to be the stupidest thing i've ever seen.

Edited January 17, 2012 by TheHeadCapper

[Yfelsung]

Sure it does. It creates a stable bicycle like vehicle for those without the coordination(kids) to use a bike.

 

But all it does is go from point a to point b at about the same speed, using the same roads and same form of locomotion.

 

That's not my definition of innovation, or at least not my definition of significant innovation.

 

Like the iPhone.

 

The first iPhone was a massive innovation in smart phones.

 

The iPhone4S is not much of a change from the iPhone4.

 

Similarly, I see GW2 as about the same jump as a 4 to a 4S.

 

In the end, it's still techn-hobbits, furries and elves gaining levels and fighting dragons. I've done it all before.

 

At the very least they could have tried to make an original setting. But they didn't even do that, they made a setting arguably more generic than even Blizzard's settings.

[Kourage]

Why be mediocre when you can be exceptional?

 

I pose the same question to players who don't do anything to update their gear besides choosing quest rewards.

[Andryah]

Clever title OP.

 

Same old stale regurgitated /rant though.

 

There is a good deal of innovation in this game actually, in the context of MMOs. It's just that you are fixated on your "learned complaint list" and can't see beyond it IMO>

[spinedoc]

Clever title OP.

 

Same old stale regurgitated /rant though.

 

There is a good deal of innovation in this game actually, in the context of MMOs. It's just that you are fixated on your "learned complaint list" and can't see beyond it IMO>

 

I see very little innovation, actually as the game stands today I see NO innovation, none, nada, zilch.

 

I see areas where there *could* be innovation, where the devs probably meant for future innovation to take shape, and those things give me hope, but it still means I won't sub until one day in the future those things come to fruition.

 

Let's take the thing that bioware clamors most loudly about when they say they innovated the MMO genre, that of storytelling. They obviously didn't introduce storytelling to MMO's, they didn't even introduce cut scenes or even voice acting to MMO's. Sure they do an absolutely fantastic job of storytelling, but that's not "innovation", it's just polishing of whats currently already invented. It doesn't mean what bw did has no value, far from it, but it's not "innovative". We can see glimmers of what could have been innovation, the response system and the light/dark side system and the companion affection system, but none of these currently affect the storyline or gameplay at all, I'm currently maxed out on dark side points, other than buying a couple of lightsabers that are the same stats as any other level appropriate on I can obtain I see no benefit. I'm maxed on companion affection, again no changes, I think the only benefit is the rumor that they might complete missions quicker. Same thing with quest responses, it matters NONE what your responses are, the storyline and indeed the particular quest still unfolds exactly the same way, which invariably is go across the entire zone, kill 10 rats, and run all the way back to me.

 

BW can still salvage this, and I'm hoping this is what they plan to do. If they simply throw more content at the game it would be a bad move as you can see how many are unsatisfied after being hyped for years on "innovation" which never came through.