Pink_Saber Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 last post then i am done because, its too small a pop. to really matter but what i meant was This is an extreme example obviously, but say you have 25 ppl playing 4 characters, they've filled an entire shard on their own. You'd have 2 ppl effectively playing 8 characters v 2 other ppl playing 8 characters in pvp wz's, you'd have no one LFG or to help you do heroics unless you boxed as well, and you'd have NO one using companions. Since boxers are tyipically ppl that want to solo play, they dont contribute much to the MMO community as a whole. I don't get why they aren't playing a SP RPG. I am sure there are more examples but its just not worth it anymore. Your entire argument seems to boil down to "soloing is bad." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptwonline Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 last post then i am done because, its too small a pop. to really matter but what i meant was This is an extreme example obviously, but say you have 25 ppl playing 4 characters, they've filled an entire shard on their own. You'd have 2 ppl effectively playing 8 characters v 2 other ppl playing 8 characters in pvp wz's, you'd have no one LFG or to help you do heroics unless you boxed as well, and you'd have NO one using companions. Since boxers are tyipically ppl that want to solo play, they dont contribute much to the MMO community as a whole. I don't get why they aren't playing a SP RPG. I am sure there are more examples but its just not worth it anymore. Your complaint is more about solo players than boxers, so I'm really not sure what your beef is about boxing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GellonSW Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Multiboxing has never and will never interfere with PvE. Let's just get that ridiculous notion out of the thread. I can see why PvP folks would complain though. Edited February 2, 2012 by GellonSW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancientwolfgr Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 last post then i am done because, its too small a pop. to really matter but what i meant was This is an extreme example obviously, but say you have 25 ppl playing 4 characters, they've filled an entire shard on their own. You'd have 2 ppl effectively playing 8 characters v 2 other ppl playing 8 characters in pvp wz's, you'd have no one LFG or to help you do heroics unless you boxed as well, and you'd have NO one using companions. Since boxers are tyipically ppl that want to solo play, they dont contribute much to the MMO community as a whole. I don't get why they aren't playing a SP RPG. I am sure there are more examples but its just not worth it anymore. Good thing youre giving up anyways. That said, my guild of 100+ people wont group with you or anyone else either. Community as you show is not a requirement. When we are all on we basically leave whole zones filled with soloers complaining theres no groups. So? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiregean Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 This discussion always cracks me up, all the people who moan bitterly about how unfair Multi-Boxing is to them. Get over it, as long as we aren't using hacks, exploits, and other cheat type functions/programs we're following the rules same as you. I've been running multiple clients since Ultima online using a switch (now a virtual switch) and it in no way impacts any of you. Do I have an advantage against you in PvP? Yes until you get a friend to help you. Can I focus on two people fighting me? Yes but it's far harder. Multi-boxing is both a boon and a bane at the same time, as is playing solo and in a group. They're no different. The only thing I see it as is a way to avoid ninja looters and inexperienced players who would otherwise set me back. I enjoy playing on my own, I socialize like everyone else but when it comes to actually playing the game I like the challenge of knowing I can beat the game on my own with no outside assistance. Now the real reason so many of you are upset and I know damn well it to be true is that you're both jealous and angry that you have neither the systems, the money, nor the ability to coordinate multiple characters and this upsets you. Get over it. As far as the EULA is concerned, provided I'm not using any programs to otherwise AUTOMATE any of my characters I'm breaking no rules and as such am subject to no penalties. And in truth, if it weren't for my laziness at times you'd never even know I was multi-boxing. I've proven this time and time again to large groups by holding multi-person conversations with no extended time period between responses. If I hadn't told them I was multi-boxing they'd have never known (and I do make sure people know I'm doing it.) So again, get over yourselves and let us enjoy the game how we like to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trushott Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Multiboxing has never and will never interfere with PvE. Let's just get that ridiculous notion out of the thread. I can see why PvP folks would complain though. except ive boxed since 1996 but do not in this game becuase follow is so terrible and buggy as many things are in swtor but any halfway decent team of individual players playing single toons will always beat a boxer ... always ... if both sides equally geared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorianna Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 My husband has boxed since EQ days. He uses no 3rd party software and he has a blast w/ it. He gets bored when he doesn't box. Up until a few back I did not box. Then vent became popular. We have kids and vent is a big issue for us. We do not like to use headsets, because we cannot hear the kids and we cant have it on open speaker because there is always someone who feels the need to say something my kids do not need to hear. Vent destroyed the fun for me. No more raiding and alot of times, no groups. So I started boxing as well. We played EQ2 mostly and some WoW. We were able to do all the instances together and we had alot of fun doing it. If a friend came on and wanted to play, I would drop a character and the friend would take it's place. People box for different reasons and people play MMOs for different reasons. MMOs to us is having fun w/ our spouse. We bother no one and especially in EQ2 w/ guild halls.. no one even knew we existed except our guild. It's our time and it's our money. I think people jump to alot of conclusions about boxers. It's too bad. We haven't boxed yet in this game. The two of us plus companions seem okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skerry Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 But what about programs that allow you to control multiple accounts simultaneously ? The trouble people have with multiboxing is seperating botting and multiboxing. The program is nothing but a key repeater. I hit A key and it goes to X instances of the game. This means that a person needs to be sitting at their machine attending the game, nothing is done automatically they can't walk away and have stuff happens. they must react in order to get things done. IF it crosses over into botting, where I can hit A key and for all intents and purposes walk away from the machine and it will just do it's thing- that is very very bad. This is why it is never illegal in any MMOs, it does not hack into the game, alter the game, or in anyway modify the game - everything a multiboxer does can be done by multiple players. Meaning, what 1 player with 4 characters can do 4 players with 1 character can do. No advantage, no benefits (outside of not having to worry about other people messing things up ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surakis Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 You don't see a problem with 4 people running up to you and all casting the same spell/attack at the exact same time and instantly killing you? And why does it matter if it was a boxer over 4 players using Vent doing this? 4 toons beat you down. 4 toons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BegaTasty Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Of coarse it shouldn't be bannable, it has nothing to do with anyone if you can afford multiple accounts. I think people just like to complain, looking at this forum is understandable. I say go for it, I use my Razor mechanical keyboard to set macro's to make things easier, it isn't bannable because its simply a keyboard. Buying two accounts an using your G15 to sync them is just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyler Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 The main issue with multi-boxing is it requires some form of macroing system to have multiple PC's controlled from 1 input device. That could be seen as against the user agreement assuming it disallows macroing. That being said, in a game like wow, multi-boxing was easily fixed by a group fear (priests for the win). A lack of fear in this game could make it more difficult for the player being multi-boxed against. This is my own personal observation based on past experiences Take from it what you will. You don't multibox, do you? Because it doesn't require any macros to do. And you don't need multiple PCs to multibox. BTW, a multiboxer did send BW a request about it being legal or not, under the TOS. Legal it is. Also, the use of your software to run your G15/other gaming keyboards, that let you create macros...BW said that was legal also. For those that don't know the difference, and obviously some posters here, don't - "Bots" are characters that are completely controlled by a program, just like the NPCs in the game. Basically you have one computer playing against another computer. Chars that are being multiboxed are controlled by a person, pressing keys to make things happen. Remember Google is your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knockerz Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) It's legal. Even if BW or Blizzard were to ban the software I can guarantee you can find hardware that hardwires your input from single mouse and keyboard and duplicates/clones commands to two or how ever computers you want to connect for the purpose of multiboxing. The reason not many use hardware is that it's more expensive. You can get a whole year subscription with some of the software companies for like 90 dollars or less, but a single device only for two computers from Vetra will cost you like 200-300 dollars. The multicasting systems for like 8 clones requires a switcher, which will run you nearly as much as building a whole new computer. That's why you rarely see any one with that hardware, but they do exist. Here is the link to their website: http://www.vetra.com/ Hardware multiboxing is superior to software multiboxing, but not many go down this route due to high cost, but it avoids any potential conflicts with the eula. Edited February 2, 2012 by Knockerz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appeals Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) ROFL!!! Real life Multiboxing This cracks me up. Im a 3-boxer. Im gonna be blunt. Its awesome. Solo play is too easy. (my opinion) Few things for the uneducated posters. I skip over every post that makes ludicrous claims... for example. "its illegal" - really? are the cops going to come to my house and arrest me? "BW/EA let me do it because i pay them extra money... turn a blind eye" - lol! ok.. so this claim believes my extra $30 will make or break them. uhh, 2mil subs @ $15 each =$30 mil while designer outsource rate is ~ $64 in US industry, sooo basically 1/2 an hrs worth of their time to make a tree or boulder is detrimental enough to allow me to "cheat"?? "its not fair... one person plays 4 accounts, I only play one" - errr. what?! what grade are these people in? Clue, you arent playing a human. You arent ACTUALLY in the game. you control 1 account, I choose to control 3. if you want a fair fight, get more accounts, or dont fight me, or better yet, get 2 people to help. "they have no life and no friends so they must do it..." hee hee.. ok. If it makes ya feel better, please go do some research and find out how many people multibox. (clue, its a lot) "they are bots and ruining the game" ermmmm. baseless facts. next "Multiboxers only do it to sell in game currency, farm, or sell accounts" are you really that crazy and nuts? I spent this much time and effort into my own enjoyment you think I want to sell it!?! oh and, 3x the credit input vs 3x the repairs and 3x the gearing I have to do. bah, totally worthless claim. "They cheat and use third party software" - again incorrect, and misinformed. and one of my personal favorites... "this isnt how the game was intended to be played" - ORLY?!? the devo staff and game production team consulted you on your advice and you were privy to to what the game intent was?!? Im a guess not. Now, if theres an actual standpoint or base to provide a claim not supported by opinion or conjecture, please... Otherwize, ... I'll see you in game. Edited February 3, 2012 by Appeals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appathetic Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Great Post Appeals! I Completely agree with you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apprentis Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I'll third that. Hee hee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cretinus Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) This MB discussions all end the same, with people arguing whether it does, or whether it does not, infringe the anti-bot regulation. It does not, imho. But this is actually the wrong question. If BW wanted to avoid MBs, then they would most certainly not use the anti-bot regulation, because it is very weak for this issue. They would probably add a very clear anti-MB regulation to the legal stuff and that would be it. Something like "multi boxing is not allowed" would do, with a very clear definition of what is considered to be multi boxing. So the question here is much rather, whether the majority of players is happy with MB being allowed, or would rather see it banned. If the latter is the case, then some sort of petition could possibly lead to a clear anti MB regulation. Edited February 3, 2012 by Cretinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck_TwnTNN Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (looks at the three posts above) ... Oh... I see what you did there. I run multiple accounts in EvE Online, but I run them all independantly and have to swap in order to do so between all my monitors running the game in windowed mode. THAT kind of multiboxing is perfectly legit. Running a 3rd party app that permits you to run multiple accounts while only actually using one of them is something I think the EULA might have an issue with because this is something that can be exploited on so many levels, that I can't imagine it being permitted to continue too long once it's discovered by EA. Cheers! Multi_Tasked_Canuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photometrik Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Multiboxing is completely fine by me. I would never do it myself, but I think it's rather amusing to see. Plus, it is hilarity incarnate to target the lead character, wreck his face, and watch the rest of the clones just fall apart. Seen it happen quite often in WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiddex Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 a bot is a bot is a bot. and if it just mimics everything you do with your char, it it remains a bot. not that multiboxers would care but they have my disrespect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sittal Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I'd never multibox, but i don't mind people who do. you are paying more money to a game i want to succeed and probably having fun doing it too, so have at it. if i get ran over by a horde of identical looking players in pvp, i'll just laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiddex Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I'd never multibox, but i don't mind people who do. you are paying more money to a game i want to succeed and probably having fun doing it too, so have at it. if i get ran over by a horde of identical looking players in pvp, i'll just laugh. we will see if you laugh just as loud if theyare all assasins and kill you with the first hit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I am hoping for some clarification from a mod on this but i also would like to hear fromt eh community also. Recently on my server a guy has been spotted repeatedly running around with three toons all with similar names and all three doing the exact same thing at the same time. Meaning when 1 jumps they all jump, one attacks they all attack, with the same skills. Its clear this guy is using a 3rd party program to control the three accounts at once. I have seen this in other games, it tends to be one of those grey areas, while i have zero issue with multi boxing (2 or more accts on the same computer) i have a serious issue with the whole daisy chain, where 1 toon controls the others. This smells of cheating, but is it cheating? Does Bioware consider it cheating, or do they turn a blind eye to it because its 1 guy playing for 3 accounts. Do you as a player think its cheating to have 3 accounts being played simultaneously by one machine ? We had a very open and heated discussion with this guy on our server, he swears he is not hurting anyone by doing this, to me he is, to me because of how this works he can do content made for more than one person, solo. For example world bosses, cant use a companion to assist you no matter the level, but this guy can use his 2 other accts to assist him even though he is soloing. I was hoping to avoid a book here but i think i failed at that, i would like to know what you all think and maybe Bioware's stance on this. TL;DR- Does multi-boxing with a daisy chain program seem legit, or illegal ? This exact post has shown up on every MMO forum I've ever visited, and without exception multiboxing has been allowed in every MMO I've ever played. Sorry OP, just because you don't like something doesn't make it "illegal". If you think he's breaking a rule then /report him, but don't cry when nothing happens because he's not breaking any rules... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gehoornde Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 ROFL!!! Real life Multiboxing This cracks me up. Im a 3-boxer. Im gonna be blunt. Its awesome. Solo play is too easy. (my opinion) Few things for the uneducated posters. I skip over every post that makes ludicrous claims... for example. "its illegal" - really? are the cops going to come to my house and arrest me? "BW/EA let me do it because i pay them extra money... turn a blind eye" - lol! ok.. so this claim believes my extra $30 will make or break them. uhh, 2mil subs @ $15 each =$30 mil while designer outsource rate is ~ $64 in US industry, sooo basically 1/2 an hrs worth of their time to make a tree or boulder is detrimental enough to allow me to "cheat"?? "its not fair... one person plays 4 accounts, I only play one" - errr. what?! what grade are these people in? Clue, you arent playing a human. You arent ACTUALLY in the game. you control 1 account, I choose to control 3. if you want a fair fight, get more accounts, or dont fight me, or better yet, get 2 people to help. "they have no life and no friends so they must do it..." hee hee.. ok. If it makes ya feel better, please go do some research and find out how many people multibox. (clue, its a lot) "they are bots and ruining the game" ermmmm. baseless facts. next "Multiboxers only do it to sell in game currency, farm, or sell accounts" are you really that crazy and nuts? I spent this much time and effort into my own enjoyment you think I want to sell it!?! oh and, 3x the credit input vs 3x the repairs and 3x the gearing I have to do. bah, totally worthless claim. "They cheat and use third party software" - again incorrect, and misinformed. and one of my personal favorites... "this isnt how the game was intended to be played" - ORLY?!? the devo staff and game production team consulted you on your advice and you were privy to to what the game intent was?!? Im a guess not. Now, if theres an actual standpoint or base to provide a claim not supported by opinion or conjecture, please... Otherwize, ... I'll see you in game. Pure gold! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netskink Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I used to multibox in wow. I enjoyed the complexity of encoding macros for the different classes and having them work together. I assure you I spent more time sitting at target dummy's tuning macros and my driver shim than I did questing. Way more time, let me say that again, way more time coding than playing. In fact, I don't think I ever quested as a multiboxer. I simply ran heroics or did pvp. I have videos of me tanking and dpsing/healing heroics on two accounts with team mates. So, if you think it is easy to multbox a melee and a caster at the same time using only in game macro mechanics then you are way off base. Since I mentioned a device driver, let me also explain that the driver shim only repeated key presses. It did not insert key strokes. Every single action my two toons did was initiated by a keypress. Nothing was automated. The only automation was the /castsequence macros supported by the game. I lul'd myself silly when I would be in wsg and kids would say, "OMG, the bot has the flag" and then someone would say "the bot has top dmg and no deaths. follow him." Lastly, not all game players are unemployed or work at mcdonalds. If you are upset because a developer has the money and means to dual box, that is your problem not his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bamajawn Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) It was quite common in EQ for a player to have two accounts, particularly for a tank/healer duo. I see no difference between having one player or two behind the keyboard(s). I cannot see that this harms me or another player in any way. Why dictate how others choose to play the game? If a 3rd party app was controlling the characters my answer would be different, but if a real person is in control, I have no problem with it. Note: I'm not a multibox player. I can barely take care of ONE toon at a time. Edited February 3, 2012 by Bamajawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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