Casual = Happy and Re-Subscribing; Hardcore = Rage Quit

[Baaddare]

Have you noticed this trend on the forums lately? Casual players gush about how much they are enjoying the game whereas MMO veterans and hardcore players seem to be extremely dissatisfied. What are your thoughts? If you accept this premise, why do you think this might be the case? Is it possible Bioware is aware of this and are fine with it (ie, it was a financial decision)?

 

I would disagree with the assumption that MMO veterans are extremely dissatisfied. It seems that most of the old vetrans from pre wow are favorable to this game.

 

BW has stated they aimed this game at RPGers who do not normally play MMO's and Star War Fans. They have also stated that they understood that somepeople would be hardcore and blow though the content in a race to 50 but that they were not aiming the game at people such as that as they felt that would be only a small % of the people who would be playing this game.

[Liberate]

Not resubbing, which is sad since I have looked forward to this game since the site flipped on.

 

I am not a child, I hate being lead from point a to point b. Everything is cookie cutter this spec is this, that spec is that. High level gear, everyone looks the same.

 

There is no freedom, I feel so uninvolved with crafting. I need to feel engaged, not just be the button pusher.

 

My abilities lag, or fire the animation but do no damage.

 

Running an i7 with a 550TI, it's not my computer.

 

I am glad those of you who enjoy the game, enjoy it. I just need depth, more freedom and uniqueness I guess. Unless Titan or GW2 really own up to the hype, it looks like I am done with mmos. This linear, hold your hand crap is for the birds.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Liberate

[Jswizzle]

Kerafyrm The Sleeper >MC,Illidan,LK,Deathwing

 

The Battle of Kithicor Forest, a GM run event involving a massive war of NPCs and players,> the scripted "battles" of WoW.

 

It's the GM run/sponsored events from EQ that I really miss in MMOs nowdays. Anyone who took part in that Battle, either with Lanys T`Vyl or against her, will probably list that as one of their favorite MMO moments.

 

The sleeper was classic. Before I quit EQ last month I would still sometimes go to the old school "sleepers tomb" and solo the raid content with my level 94 bard. I would solo some of the Planes of Power raid content too. It's still a lot of fun. Rallos Zek the Warlord was level 65 or something. So yeah I'm 30 levels over him.

[Kurnea]

Many people consider themselves to be a "hardcore" players because they completed a raid in World of Warcraft or entered the arena. Just... wow.... You have no idea what it really means to be "hardcore", most of you you are just casual players, trust me.

 

From what I gather, 'hardcore mmo player' more or less is equivalent to 'masochist'.

[Veifoi]

The first rule of MMO game design:

 

Most of your players don't post on the forums, most of them don't even READ the forums. Trying to gauge any kind of data on what to do design wise from the forum is FUTILE.

+11111

truest thing ever posted among the massive nerd rage of these forums.

[Baaddare]

Other than WoW's success, which was built on a foundation that was far more hardcore than it is now, I'd like to see some examples of MMO's that have had great success by building on a more casual format. I keep seeing this "developers go where the money is" argument, but I have yet to see a single example where the developer actually succeeded with this strategy in a subscriber based MMO. There's no evidence that casual players can make up the backbone of a subscription-based MMO. It drains all life out of the game when its too easy, gives your game a bad reputation, and makes even casual players not want to play it.

 

you do realize that gamers who were considered hardcore when wow came out considered it aimed at casual players. After all wow did away pretty much with harsh death penalties.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Baaddare

[daedalusmachine]

I doubt this game has hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of hardcores

 

and thats a low estimation of the people that will leave in 2 days

 

so no, plenty casuals also dislike this game.

 

casuals AND newcomers to the genre? yep, those might be enjoying it, since they lack something to compare it to and dont know better

 

1st line. no, it does.

 

2nd. we'll see. doubtful

 

3rd. maybe some do sure.

 

4th. this is plain false.

 

Try again? Pull some more bs out of the hat troll.

[Nanomancer]

My brother is casual....he plays very little (has a level 28) and he hates this game because of how tedious travel is. He hates it because of the horribly responsive combat. He hates it because the UI is god awful.

 

Just chiming in that casuals can not like this game for its flaws just as much as hardcore players.

[grandmthethird]

hardcore players = niche market

casual players = mainstream

 

which of these 2 do you think would make the most money?

 

(also i know hardcore players that are enjoying the game) what you should have said was hardcore forums warriors = rage quitters

[Daedricshots]

who cares? Hardcores of any mmo are always the minority. Casuals are what keep an mmo going.

[JeremyDale]

From what I gather, 'hardcore mmo player' more or less is equivalent to 'masochist'.

 

All "hard core" means is that video games is your main hobby and that you put a significant amount of time into playing them.

 

To be honest, it's the opposite of what that guy you responded to was saying. A lot of people who think they are "casual players" are actually "hard core" gamers.

 

The difference here isn't between "casual" and "hardcore" which is a myth and always has been a myth. A casual gamer isnt' going to pay a subscription to play a video game anyways.

 

The real conflict here is players who want their games challenging and players who want their games easy. That's the real difference.

Edited January 17, 2012 by JeremyDale

[Orkayl]

I don't think it's anywhere near universally true, but there is a definite trend in the 'will you resub' threads that the level of dissatisfaction increases pretty drastically at and beyond level cap (e.g. at cap for longer periods of time).

 

There is also a pretty large contingent of players who are dissatisfied with performance/bug issues that are gamebreaking to them personally.

 

So no it's not an ironclad indicator, but there is a definite trend.

 

Personally, I am a long-time MMO vet and somewhat hardcore and have been 50 on my main for weeks. I am dissatisfied with the product and am resubbing for 1 month solely to play with a RL friend to 50 on his only character. Barring drastic changes to the underlying game elements (that will never happen) then that will be the end of the road for me.

[Retro-]

I'm a hardcore MMO vet and end game raider in WoW and I'm resubbing. Would you look at that..

[Jswizzle]

From what I gather, 'hardcore mmo player' more or less is equivalent to 'masochist'.

 

Those aren't the hardcore players. Hardcore gamers exhibits the traits of Narcissism down to the letter. I'm not saying that to knock on anybody, because I'm pretty much talking about myself too.

 

There are healthy and destructive types of Narcissism.

[bunbuns]

Only people who are resubbing are fans and players who doesnt know how a good mmo should be. And thats gonna help with the down fall of this game .

 

Bad design+out dated game play + adoring fans = fail game,

 

Little heads up, be ready for server merge because alot of people are unsubbing

[daedalusmachine]

Not resubbing, which is sad since I have looked forward to this game since the site flipped on.

 

I am not a child, I hate being lead from point a to point b. Everything is cookie cutter this spec is this, that spec is that. High level gear, everyone looks the same.

 

There is no freedom, I feel so uninvolved with crafting. I need to feel engaged, not just be the button pusher.

 

My abilities lag, or fire the animation but do no damage.

 

Running an i7 with a 550TI, it's not my computer.

 

I am glad those of you who enjoy the game, enjoy it. I just need depth, more freedom and uniqueness I guess. Unless Titan or GW2 really own up to the hype, it looks like I am done with mmos. This linear, hold your hand crap is for the birds.

 

You know what Liberate, this is the only LEGITIMATE complaint I've heard from someone leaving. So I respect you for giving it.

 

I feel like the pressure to make MMO's accessable (which is what makes them hugely successful) has hurt their potential. Unfortunately, they're trying to make a game that literally, ANYONE can play. And for some gamers thats not going to work.

I mean, do I really want to play a game that's so easy a kid can play? Not really... but at the same time, there are still skill based elements that are enough to keep me interested.

 

I still enjoy the game and am looking forward to see where it goes. But I too miss the days of true innovation in MMOs. I've played since UO (EQ, AA, AC, EaB, Eve, FF11, GW1, Aeon, FFXIV and WoW) so I do consider myself a veteran and a hardcore, and I do like this game. So its really just a personal preference IMO.

[Mephismo]

Because every MMO company out there knows you can not possibly develop enough content to keep people playing that play a game over 40 hours a week. It is next to impossible to develop anything that isn't just pure grinding. That is why Blizzard has changed the direction of their game and are developing Titan as a casual based game that will be even more casual than WoW or SWTOR. They know it is impossible to compete with WoW in this department and you will see fewer and fewer games come out that are focused on hardcore types. It sucks for that segment of gamer but these companies go where the money is and that is with the casual type gamer.

 

This and clearly the casual players have not run out of content

[solidkjames]

Could be people are just sick of hearing things being "copied from WoW" that WoW copied from previous games in the first place. I generally ignore any comment that says "WoW had <insert something from UO, DAoC, EQ, whatever else> so this game should to" as an argument. If it's something that was genuinely from WoW, then I might pay attention.

 

I played WoW for a long time, and I enjoyed it quite a bit. I finally ended my run after hitting the Cataclysm end game and I won't be going back for the MoP expansion. It'll be the first one I don't buy.

 

This goes for me and all of my friends. We will stick with SWTOR going forward as this game has more potential and WoW will never see the same level of success it has seen in the past. I figure a lot of people will see how MOP does before buying it and when they see it is not as successful as most had hoped then WoW will finally become any other MMO. It will still have more subs than any other MMO but the MMO genre will be much more diverse with SWTOR moving right along. There will never be a game as large as WoW was at its peak and that is a good thing. Competition produces the best products.

[Baaddare]

I always tell WoW progression raiders to go get their Trueshot Bow in EQ pre SOL and then come talk to me about Hardcore

 

Hey i loved my bow and cried when i realized i would have to do the quest all over again once i used up the 5 shots that you could not just recharge it. I still remember when there was a ranger with her full set of T***** Vine Armor from fear and people were coming from all over the server to see her in it (considering the length of time it could take to get across the world back then it was something) They had to get her to go to a place were even the iskars and Shadow knights could look at her without guards attacking them.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Baaddare

[Nasq]

I really like how casuals use the word hardcore without knowing what's behind it.

 

Hardcore players enjoyed and experienced a lot more than casual players the MMOs since long ago, MANY before this one, UO, DaoC,EQ, SWG, EQ2, L1,L2, RO, ETC. If you compair all those games with the actual MMO system since WoW, all those games are HARDCORE.

(Casual players DIDN'T EXIST.)

 

That's why all these people have such a hard opinion when they see games like Swtor, because they have a more valuable experience than many of those people who started playing wow and considered themselves the basic fountain of knowledge from this world.

 

Did you know that almost ALL hardcore clans from europe (from WoW) are ALL coming from UO, SWG, EQ and DaoC? games with actually a lot more history than WoW itself? (Example) Did you know there was a World War 1, before the World War 2?

 

All those players are above the age of 25. And all those players are ALL against this game, every review from NSIDIA members, for example as many others, (top class wow) are against SWTOR.

 

Do you know why? Not because they are against you or they do not like the game or everyone has different opinions and stuff, tssssssssssssss, shut up! NO.

 

It's a matter of EXPERIENCE, and they have MILIONS of it more than any of you or even me and i'm a player since UO.

 

What would you think if i tell you there were games long ago that were actually a thousand times better than your best MMO experience ever in recent games? Then you'd claim a lot more quality in the games you're going to play right? It's LOGIC, that's why if hardcores like a game, it'll be a success. If you make your base with casual players, the game is going to fall down, trust me. The only good thing of blizzard was that they fed their hardcores while casualizing the game and at the same time feeding their casuals to enlarge the game's life. Did you ever play WoW pre-burning? Because that game was a totally different game.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Nasq

[Cameirus]

Have you noticed this trend on the forums lately? Casual players gush about how much they are enjoying the game whereas MMO veterans and hardcore players seem to be extremely dissatisfied. What are your thoughts? If you accept this premise, why do you think this might be the case? Is it possible Bioware is aware of this and are fine with it (ie, it was a financial decision)?

 

casual - bored by repetative grindy quests, annoyed by basic bugs like graphics and ability delay. Unsubbing.

 

Casual or hardcore, you standards dont have to be low.

[Baaddare]

I really like how casuals use the word hardcore without knowing what's behind it.

 

Hardcore players enjoyed and experienced a lot more than casual players the MMOs since long ago, MANY before this one, UO, DaoC,EQ, SWG, EQ2, L1,L2, RO, ETC. If you compair all those games with the actual MMO system since WoW, all those games are HARDCORE.

(Casual players DIDN'T EXIST.)

 

That's why all these people have such a hard opinion when they see games like Swtor, because they have a more valuable experience than many of those people who started playing wow and considered themselves the basic fountain of knowledge from this world.

 

Did you know that almost ALL hardcore clans from europe (from WoW) are ALL coming from UO, SWG, EQ and DaoC? games with actually a lot more history than WoW itself? (Example) Did you know there was a World War 1, before the World War 2?

 

All those players are above the age of 25. And all those players are ALL against this game, every review from NSIDIA members, for example as many others, (top class wow) are against SWTOR.

 

Do you know why? Not because they are against you or they do not like the game or everyone has different opinions and stuff, tssssssssssssss, shut up! NO.

 

It's a matter of EXPERIENCE, and they have MILIONS of it more than any of you or even me and i'm a player since UO.

 

What would you think if i tell you there were games long ago that were actually a thousand times better than your best MMO experience ever in recent games? Then you'd claim a lot more quality in the games you're going to play right? It's LOGIC, that's why if hardcores like a game, it'll be a success. If you make your base with casual players, the game is going to fall down, trust me. The only good thing of blizzard was that they fed their hardcores while casualizing the game and at the same time feeding their casuals to enlarge the game's life. Did you ever play WoW pre-burning? Because that game was a totally different game.

 

Um I hate to burst your bubble but all the old EQ players that I know rather like SWTOR now it might be that many of us are in the 40's and 50's but we enjoy this game.

[solidkjames]

Only people who are resubbing are fans and players who doesnt know how a good mmo should be. And thats gonna help with the down fall of this game .

 

Bad design+out dated game play + adoring fans = fail game,

 

Little heads up, be ready for server merge because alot of people are unsubbing

 

The good news is, as long as I can find 7 other like minded people that want to play the game, I can continue. It's posts like yours that makes all of these forums worthless. You add nothing to the conversation, you outright troll everyone who likes the game and because YOU say so the game is dead. Who cares? Why waste your energy to even type this out? Is it because the game failed you and you want others to feel your level of disgust? When will you people learn that there is absolutely NOTHING you can say that will make people hate or like this game anymore. Just go on about your life but don't try to tell people who like the game that its fail. Good luck finding your dream game.

[Barracudastr]

Have you noticed this trend on the forums lately? Casual players gush about how much they are enjoying the game whereas MMO veterans and hardcore players seem to be extremely dissatisfied. What are your thoughts? If you accept this premise, why do you think this might be the case? Is it possible Bioware is aware of this and are fine with it (ie, it was a financial decision)?

 

Its simple this game is a game that was made for non mmo players in the sense that their target audience are people that have never touched a mmo. They stated this themselves.

 

This game will never be on the level other online games with pvp are on concerning esports and things of that nature.

 

This games focus is around fast content/story.

 

Other then that any hardcore gamer or even gamers that are inbetween casual and hardcore will find this game lacking and probably wont stick around long.

 

There are too many issues in this game for a mmo to be considered for many gamers that have been around for awhile. Things that other new mmo's aren't having issues with. So its a bit hard for us guys out there with 10+ years MMO experience to just accept this game considering some of the major flaws it has with the amount of dev time and money spent on it.

 

Unacceptable in many peoples opinions.

 

Also note every good review this game has is nearly 100% based on one aspect.... story with voice overs. Because thats all this game offers for most.

[LaVolpex]

All I'm going to say is...

 

E-SPORTS man.... E-SPORTS...

 

LOL

 

they can leave and go back to pvp in a box..er im sorry arenas , this game is going good and it could use less whiners and no lifes that cleared all content in a month just to claim the hardcore title on their own minds and that of their peers , of course they are bored now, they expect wow like polishment a month after release , thats the kind of people we DONT need here tbh

 

if the word "e-sport" is ever uttered by a bioware game dev in so much as a funny tone im out the door so fast , not even my ships hyperspace can catch up

Edited January 17, 2012 by LaVolpex