TheRiddick Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) pvp wise? very true. I doubt anything can beat gw on that. Pve wise? lol no... just... no I can agree with that statement. though PvE wasn't too bad, Domain of Anguish speed runs were fun as hell heh. Edited January 17, 2012 by TheRiddick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegathegreat Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) orrrrrrrrrrrr we could have same stats with bolster, and if you truly are a better player you beat the pants off me, p.s I have full champ set working on BM, so i have done the grind and i still say it is stupid as hell progression in skill is so much better than progression in gear, that way you actually KNOW you are better than the other oppenent/team rather than thinking "i worked to get this gear, therefore i AM better" neh, you are a pansy discuised as a dandylion :/ you know your better the second your opponent makes his first mistake, anyone who is good knows this and regardless of gear will most likely be the winner voiding outside interference which generally a good player will see coming from a mile away. none the less gear progression allows the good players to take on new challenges such as defeating multiple enemies solo. I just dont understand why anyone would want every toon to be exactly the same on the battlefield, personally i want my toon to be the hero, an absolute dominant force that between gear and skill allows me to rise well above the normal player. Edited January 17, 2012 by Vegathegreat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jswizzle Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 You don't really have to focus on the gear grind. Sure there will always be someone that steamrolls you, but that doesn't mean you can't find a way to win. The competitive aspect is very much alive. I like playing the underdog and winning. It's more rewarding at the end of an uphill battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRiddick Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 you know your better the second your opponent makes his first mistake, anyone who is good knows this and regardless of gear will most likely be the winner voiding outside interference which generally a good player will see coming from a mile away. none the less gear progression allows the good players to take on new challenges such as defeating multiple enemies solo. I just dont understand why anyone would want every toon to be exactly the same on the battlefield, personally i want my toon to be the hero, an absolute dominant force that between gear and skill allows me to rise well above the normal player. lol I pray that you never create an MMO cause balance in your pvp will never exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axorman Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Can you read patch notes or do I have an unfair advantage? As long as the queues still include lvl50s and 10s you have an unfair advantage. Talk to me when the patch goes live. I'm out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehash Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 You want MOBA. You play MMO. You want MOBA. You play MMO. Let it sink. The difference between the genres (very generally) essentially comes down to progression. MOBAs provide you with almost none. Whereas MMOs are ALL about progression. Now, that said, there can be progression that doesn't revolve around gear. PvP should be about ladders and bragging rights. Bioware can give players this by adding rewards like mounts, new class skill graphics or animations, new emotes, wardrobe items etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceJudge Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 MMORPGs usually have the gear hamster wheel system. Thing is not everyone is entertained by 4 hours of raiding, so grinding like that is unappealing. Now being able to grind by just fighting other players is a completely different light to some players. If it was just competition the people who liked doing the 6 hour raid thing would just be superior to players who just enjoy pvp. I can't say I mind the separation that much, I just wish gear was customizable because some of the pvp gear starts looking pretty funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Philar Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Call of Duty, Modern Warfare, League of Legends... you're doing it wrong, you should be charging $15 a month. I'm beginning to suspect that you may be an executive at a game publishing company who only wants to defend the broken system that promotes grinding because your games all have subscription fees... That is pretty much the only logical conclusion, outside of you just being a terrible PvPer who relies on gear advantages to supplement your lack of skill. Fact is, PvP is a completely separate game from the actual MMO and should be treated as such by both the developer and the player. If you cannot see that then you are exactly the kind of robotic grinder that publishers make bank off of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehash Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) I'm beginning to suspect that you may be an executive at a game publishing company who only wants to defend the broken system that promotes grinding because your games all have subscription fees... That is pretty much the only logical conclusion, outside of you just being a terrible PvPer who relies on gear advantages to supplement your lack of skill. Fact is, PvP is a completely separate game from the actual MMO and should be treated as such by both the developer and the player. If you cannot see that then you are exactly the kind of robotic grinder that publishers make bank off of. This. Is there a reason I never see a logical argument supporting gear based pvp progression in MMOs? (My guess is because there isn't one) All I ever hear is "go play an FPS or MOBA" which isn't an argument at all. Edited January 17, 2012 by Rehash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crujido Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Because it gives more people a goal. As much as I love PvP, it makes it a lot more fun if I am getting rewarded for doing so. Also competition is mute right now since you can't roll with a 8 man pre-made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sicknss Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm beginning to suspect that you may be an executive at a game publishing company who only wants to defend the broken system that promotes grinding because your games all have subscription fees... That is pretty much the only logical conclusion, outside of you just being a terrible PvPer who relies on gear advantages to supplement your lack of skill. Fact is, PvP is a completely separate game from the actual MMO and should be treated as such by both the developer and the player. If you cannot see that then you are exactly the kind of robotic grinder that publishers make bank off of. Your laziness shows in the quality of your insults. Fact is, pvp is not separate in this game and I'm sorry you didn't feel that you needed to put the effort into doing any research before you bought it. Pvp in this game, like virtually every other MMORPG is an addition, enjoy. To clarify, since you're apparently very confused - IF I want to play a pvp game I'll play one designed solely for that purpose. I also do not particularly enjoy grinding for anything... levels, gear, pvp or pve. I did not expect SWTOR to break the mold and I'm fine with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sicknss Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 This. Is there a reason I never see a logical argument supporting gear based pvp progression in MMOs? (My guess is because there isn't one) All I ever hear is "go play an FPS or MOBA" which isn't an argument at all. Unfortunately that's as logical as it really needs to be. This, like virtually every RPG (and MMORPG) game ever, is progression based. It allows pvp but it is not solely nor was it ever intended to be a pvp game with rpg elements if you chose to enjoy them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceManLoneWolf Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) I also do not particularly enjoy grinding for anything... levels, gear, pvp or pve. I did not expect SWTOR to break the mold and I'm fine with that.Does that mean you shouldn't express your opinions and champion change? Last time I checked MMOs change over time. You can be content with what you bought and still long for more. Edited January 17, 2012 by IceManLoneWolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor_Troll Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Discuss.... because bioware thinks that being innovative in any way is bad for business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Philar Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Your laziness shows in the quality of your insults. Fact is, pvp is not separate in this game and I'm sorry you didn't feel that you needed to put the effort into doing any research before you bought it. Pvp in this game, like virtually every other MMORPG is an addition, enjoy. To clarify, since you're apparently very confused - IF I want to play a pvp game I'll play one designed solely for that purpose. I also do not particularly enjoy grinding for anything... levels, gear, pvp or pve. I did not expect SWTOR to break the mold and I'm fine with that. So you are OK with an inferior design because you expected it to be inferior. That argument works for some people, but not for others. As a paying customer, it is your right to ask for improvement and changes that make the product you are paying for better. You choose to simply accept it as is and that is fine, but that does not make your pathetic attempts to rationalize your cognative dissonance any less pathetic or any more logical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abanoth Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Because people who play MMOs need something to look at to feel accomplished. Also, because WoW did it and they sold 12 million subs and thus can do no wrong. Edited January 17, 2012 by Abanoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasymodeX Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 PvP has a gear grind because PvE is centered on a gear grind, and both the devs and you wouldn't want PvE gear or PvP gear to be radically better for the other content, now would you? This is the only, and the absolute, reason for tiered PvP gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abishe Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 TBH gear is the void, all MMO's faceing. if the content is gear=you'r game have failed. I never seen a good game being about gear. Like Witcher, Mass Effect, NWN2. if the combat do not satisfaction the custumer the game simple failed. reason a FPS never fails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRiddick Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 PvP has a gear grind because PvE is centered on a gear grind, and both the devs and you wouldn't want PvE gear or PvP gear to be radically better for the other content, now would you? This is the only, and the absolute, reason for tiered PvP gear. simple, use bolster to have one set stat for gear at 50... then pve can grind all day, while PvP is about skill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloberts Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Am I the only one who thinks more skilled and more experianced players are entitiled to the best gear, which they worked for. In roman times, a celebrated gladiator usually was decked out in high quality and sturdy armor. The new comers were still earning that armor. Can you imagine if a new gladiator asked the champion to take off his armor so it would be a fair fight? The champion would laugh and chop his head off. This type of game design isn't implementing a completely level playing field every single match, which does affect it's esport potential. But I like the journey to the top. If you don't want to put in the match time, then don't. Games in general have been watered down because of your mindset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beergoogles Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Guild Wars did it best when it comes to PvP.... You shouldnt have to grind out for months to get the best gear. PvP should be Skill vs Skill not Skill vs gear and Gear winning. Those that argue otherwise need the gear to compensate for there lack of skill /end thread Lol skill based? If there isn't pvp gear, then who ever had the best pve gear would have the advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Philar Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Am I the only one who thinks more skilled and more experianced players are entitiled to the best gear, which they worked for. In roman times, a celebrated gladiator usually was decked out in high quality and sturdy armor. The new comers were still earning that armor. Can you imagine if a new gladiator asked the champion to take off his armor so it would be a fair fight? The champion would laugh and chop his head off. This type of game design isn't implementing a completely level playing field every single match, which does affect it's esport potential. But I like the journey to the top. If you don't want to put in the match time, then don't. Games in general have been watered down because of your mindset. What kind of "skilled" and "experienced" player actually wants to cowardly hide behind his gear instead of showcasing his impressive skill on a level playing field? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRiddick Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 pansies discuised as dandylions... thats who Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasymodeX Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 simple, use bolster to have one set stat for gear at 50... then pve can grind all day, while PvP is about skill This doesn't work because different builds use different stats. Removing the ability for players to customize their stats is pretty bad. Not only that, devs would not agree with players on which stats are good. This also removes any differentiation from PvP, which players still want -- they just don't want 95% of their stat allocation to be the "differentiation". They want the last 5% to be incrementally acquired through PvP-based "AA" systems and so on. Am I the only one who thinks more skilled and more experianced players are entitiled to the best gear, which they worked for. Battlemaster gear is not based on skill. It's primarily based on playtime x RNG. Add a slight modifier for whether you're a tank, DPS, or healer AC, and another slight modifier for whether you run in a premade or solo ... after those, then a sliiight modifier for skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceManLoneWolf Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Lol skill based? If there isn't pvp gear, then who ever had the best pve gear would have the advantage.Obviously because it would be impossible for them to change the stats of a player's PVE gear when they enter a warzone. They also couldn't possibly give everyone a basic PVP gear set for free and require that PVP gear be used in warzones, but then provide other rewards such as cosmetic customizations to your PVP gear or even PVP sets with alternative benefits. Edited January 17, 2012 by IceManLoneWolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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