Enginer Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Hard modes are not to hard, hard modes with buggy content = to hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohnoto Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The combination of bugs, my foundry last boss bugged to use a one hit lightning spell to the entire group, makes this end game content way to hard. It's possible, but when you find random people it's really not. Nerf hard mode please it's way to hard and fix the bug so it's playable. I haven't started hard modes yet, but this doesn't sound like its "hard", just buggy. It doesn't mean that it needs to be nerfed, it means that it needs to be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee-Jay Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Make it hard but fair. Challenge is ok. Bugged or boring/tedious encounters are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karkais Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) The problem is just that this is a very gear centric game without a clear on-ramp for new 50s. The mechanics of hardmodes don't seem overly difficult, just the standard "kill the adds", "interupt an ability", "dont stand in the fire" stuff. The only difficulty seems to come in beating the enrage timer and healing through the high damage. Both these things become easier and easier the more gear you get. However, there doesn't seem to be much of an on-ramp for pve gear. You're only option, realisitically, is grinding Ilum and Belsavis dailies until you are decked out in rating 126 gear. (before you say it, yes, pvp gear is better and easier to get, but not everyone pvps). What would have been better is to have level 50 normalmodes of each flashpoint that drops tionesse gear. This would give people the on-ramp they need, allowing them to get used to grouping up at 50 whilst gaining the tier 1 gear. It doesn't make sense that you get tier 1 gear from getting unlucky on tier 2 instance loot. I agree, gear makes a huge difference. Another thing is experience, once you have went thru the FP couple times, it propably feels much easier. I remember in the beginning me and my friends had some trouble with HM black talon, dying to the robot and sabotage bots and whatnot. Fast forward few days with gear improvement: Last night we essentially ran thru the entire HM BT instance nuking the snot out of the trash elites. The only time when people died was when our tank missed a grp and one sorcerer turned to fight that group. And that was because our tank was by his own words half-asleep and wasnt paying attention. Its just a combination of two things: better gear and more playing experience. I couldnt for the life of me say that was too hard. ps. I really like how a lot of the bosses have some sort of quirk or speciality you have to know how to deal with. Its not all just tank-and-spank. Damage mitigation has to be good enough on the tank, healing must be up to the task, and your damage output has to be good enough to beat the enrage timers. In addition there may be something special like aforementioned HM BT where one guy needs to kite the sabotage bots, etc. Bioware has done very enjoyable group content. pps Due to aforementioned reasons, I have had a blast doing hardmode group content, and that is a blooming FIRST in any MMO I have played. Edited January 17, 2012 by Karkais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellison Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Why would you ever want to nerf hardmode? You are a wierd, stupid, ugly, smelly fu- AAAAHHHH!!! WHAT THE HELL!? I DIED?! THIS IS RIDICULOUS! NERF HARDMODE, IT'S TOO HARD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uruare Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) You allready get everything handed too you on a platter, please dont nurf hard modes. So far it's the only thing in this game that needs a little practice and understanding. It's doable, even with PUG, did esseles last night with some randoms and after several wipes and explaining tactics we got past iron fist, sadly after that it's all free "epix" Oh, and gief smuggler epix ^_^ I hope they nerf hardmodes and ops to the point that they're easily pug-able by people in mediocre gear and the stories they pack into them are awesome additions to their specifically immersion-driven vehicle of story emphasis. Look at WoW, now look back to ToR; Back to WoW, now back to ToR. Sadly for the quotee, TOR is not WoW, and the commitment to immersive storytelling of ToR creates an indelible hurdle that will never appeal to or do ought but ultimately alienate those trying to make ToR be WoW. Look back to WoW; suddenly, its raids are now diamonds. Now back to ToR; if they fixate singularly on funneling everything into raiding like WoW has and always will, they've wasted all their time and energy bothering with immersive storytelling. Now look back to WoW; there's lore and story. They're not why the bulk and majority of WoW players play WoW; not what drew them, not what's kept them, not what they farm dungeons and raids for. They're of completely secondary importance to the vast majorities on every server. Now back to ToR: think they can or even should replicate WoW's raid emphasis when they've already committed themselves absolutely to a delivery model of story immersion and content vibrance? The number of people already calling on everyone to spam spacebar in regular flashpoints presages the future of that. Get 25 people and 200 testers to come up with a new raid, several writers, a senior writer, a content director and several developers hammering out the presentation of significant story involvement in a new raid, along with the voice actors, and we're looking at upwards of a million to several million dollars in committed-to story delivery in a raid alone. Edit: I forgot to include the people that handle the crunchy bits! How could I forget the codemonkeys and graphic artists that get paid so well to animate things? Guess a lot could be recycled to cut costs here, but the point in general stands. I'm on the spacebar. Doo doo doot doot doot doo doot doot. Edited January 17, 2012 by Uruare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talorra Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The only thing I find hard in HM FP's now is getting the right loot to drop. Now if it just dropped a universal token at the end boss Right? My companion Kira is almost better geared than I am, from all the consular tier drops when we have no sage or shadow in group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bareyn Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Difficulties with Hard Mode? Check out my strats, they'll make you win better. [includes bugged encounters - Like Revan!] http://www.youtube.com/user/Angeryn Edited January 17, 2012 by Bareyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saligli Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 stop complaining, its called hard mode for a reason... hard mode would suck if you could beat it every time no prob.. maybe you should stick to normal mode... personally i love hard mode.. i would hate for them to nerf it and make it all easy.. the less of a challenge, the more boring it is. dont kill the game for us people who actually know how to play. sorry if im sounding harsh.. yes the bugs suck but the HM FP's aren't too hard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordConnery Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yes, the bugs make some fights near impossible. This however doesn't mean they're hard. They're just bugged. If you had a group of people in TS/Vent/Mummble and all communicating well, you'll find these flash points are fairly easy to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miathan Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 They should make the difficuly differences a bit smaller... like BT is a lot easier than everything else. Also, I ran Boarding Party HM a few times, and while I already did the whole instance up to the bridge without wiping, and once even without anyone dying, there's no way I can do the last boss. I tried it with really good groups but didn't even get close. The difference in difficulty between those 3 guys and the rest of the instance is retarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uruare Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 stop complaining, its called hard mode for a reason... hard mode would suck if you could beat it every time no prob.. maybe you should stick to normal mode... personally i love hard mode.. i would hate for them to nerf it and make it all easy.. the less of a challenge, the more boring it is. dont kill the game for us people who actually know how to play. sorry if im sounding harsh.. yes the bugs suck but the HM FP's aren't too hard Monkeys can learn to play video games. This whole 'learn to play' mentality is hilarious and misplaced. But then, nobody has any business insinuating that they know anything that matters if the platform of their statement is that they have the opportunities to run video game content. Just remember that there's nothing you're doing in this video game that we couldn't just as well train a monkey to do, except perhaps type words. On second thought, the monkeys would fit right in. Maybe they're already here. /Twilight Zone Music! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoth Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The combination of bugs, my foundry last boss bugged to use a one hit lightning spell to the entire group, makes this end game content way to hard. It's possible, but when you find random people it's really not. Nerf hard mode please it's way to hard and fix the bug so it's playable. I think it's two things that are making Hard Modes really tough to do right now 1) Bugs 2) Lack of end game testing in Beta which means there still balancing Hard Modes out The last flashpoint "The False Emperor" is easier to do then several other lower flashpoints..... I think that kind of speaks volumes of how buggy and unbalanced some flashpoints are right now" I imagine most of these will get fixed soon as Bioware keeps collecting data and feedback, just gonna have to wait.... Best bet to finish tough flashpoints are to use Range DPS, right now Melee DPS are kind of gimped due to bad mechanics with flashpoints.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithylid Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Difficulty has to have a relation to the rewards. They dont have to be hard because its in the name, they have to be harder than normal fp's so we have a progression. But they have to be hard enough so the rewards there are an upgrade. If they drop tier 1 purples i assume i need blues to get in there , not tier 2 so i can faceroll something to realize they dont offer any upgrades. And please don't ask people to PVP to improve their PVE chances, that's just a bad progression path. Normal ops are way easier than hm fp's, and the difficulty difference between some of them is so huge people are running hm BT for the daily and avoiding the rest. If you need proper group compositions and voice communication you are missing hm fp's with ops, thats where the real challenge should be. I want to be able to pug hm fp's, finish them in less than 1 hour and be able to do them with alts, and right now some of them are too hard for that. Its sad when people think they are finishing something because they are better players, when the only thing they are doing its outgearing the content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uruare Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Why would you ever want to nerf hardmode? You are a wierd, stupid, ugly, smelly fu- AAAAHHHH!!! WHAT THE HELL!? I DIED?! THIS IS RIDICULOUS! NERF HARDMODE, IT'S TOO HARD! MMO's are clearly not made for people that do things that matter with their lives. Here, log in and pretend you're awesome and that your DPS or how well you can farm the raid makes you good at something real. I have the perfect counter to any possible position ever taken on that; my monthly salary stub. It's got a number on it. That number, in US dollars, is more than many people that think they're 'hardcore' in MMO's make in a year. How's that relevant, one might ask? What sort of braggadocio am I on with, others might snarlingly inquire? Neither. Point is, some of us play MMO's like the happy-funtime games we apparently wish existed in such format to play. Me? I hate going out to clubs. Most of my colleagues go shmoozing all the fricken time at clubs, at university symposiums, at topical conventions, at the fancy bars in upscale hotels; it's really not my scene. MMO's, in theory, are perfect stay-at-home recreational outlets for me. Y'know, for when I'm not going to a museum or out to see a play, or to a concert, or out to try some new, sometimes weird place to eat with my significant other and our friends, or just sight-seeing. There is no MMO for people like me. I play hard when I play, but I play on my own schedule and my schedule is non-negotiable. It's taken years to get sync'd up with some of my raid guildmates in WoW, and that doesn't always happen either. So, yeah. I hope they nerf the 'challenge' into the ground to the point that all content can feasibly be PUG'd by folks in ramshackle compositions of crafted, PVP and quest gear that didn't require them to live on the game for a month to pains-takingly struggle and laboriously fixate like their lives depended on it to secure. I hope, foolishly and in plain acknowledgement thereof, that this could be the MMO that is chiefly, firstly and foremostly story driven. But, the gear treadmill looks exactly like WoW's. The means of getting on that treadmill...exactly like WoW's, at least when Bioware's dev team for TOR's acquired a tenth of the familiarity and competency at structuralizing and engineering the game for that. SI've got so many hours on any given day to **** around with these games. I raid with my raid guild in WoW ...sometimes every weekend when I'm around, and that's all the raiding I care for. TOR's got nothing to sell me in the raidgame department. Never will either by the look of things; WoW's already doing it better than TOR ever will if all they bloody do is cookie-cutter WoW's structuralization. Try to do WoW raids better than WoW much? Have fun widdat, says me. Now, if they deliver to me and folks like me a game that's passingly to briskly challenging but heaps it on with the ongoing saga of storyline unfolding on and on and on? My fellow forumer, they could sell me expansions of expanded content with new companions with more deeply involved storylines and branching sagas of setting and lore exploration, but they'll never sell me a raid. And there's a remarkably good chance that folks like me could drop four or five hundred bucks a month without blinking an eye or ever, ever missing it on that which adequately amused and engaged us. But g'head. Rattle off however you might, or ignore me altogether. TOR probably isn't going to be the MMO I'm still waiting for. I didn't have my hopes too high, and they're not evaporated entirely yet; too early to be throwing in the final-verdict towel yet; but the direction is all funnel-into-raid-farming so far. Pity that. I've got enough disposable income just waiting for the right game to go hog wild on that finally, after all this time, gives me what -I- want out of an MMO. Funnily enough, I'm socially proximal to a surprising number of people with equally comfortable incomes that feel the same. Untapped market, perhaps? Just imagine...an interactive space opera taking you on a journey over the course of years across deep and vibrant storylines. Plenty of lighter fare group content, lots of stuff to get together and do, but not fixated on the raid raid raid and then raid some more so you can raid mentality. Game like that comes along and knows how to tell a story and I'll quite possibly never leave it. Cheers to wishful thinking, eh? /yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AureliusVoss Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 trololololoololol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kvar Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 please don't ask people to PVP to improve their PVE chances, that's just a bad progression path. Sadly this is what most people are doing. Its easier to get PVP items and its cheaper since you dont have to pay for any repair bills on multiple hard mode wipes. plus you get better gear quicker by PVP'ing instead of farming hard modes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixMatrix Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Sadly this is what most people are doing. Its easier to get PVP items and its cheaper since you dont have to pay for any repair bills on multiple hard mode wipes. plus you get better gear quicker by PVP'ing instead of farming hard modes. Yeah. The main thing is that the "common" drops in HM flashpoints are terrible. Energized and Tionese gears are just not worth the trouble. Only Columi is, and only barely. And while 95% of the HM bosses are trivial (many can be soloed), there's just a FEW, and it seems to be completely random which ones, that have fairly tight enrage timers. Tight enough that unless you're seriously on the ball (or have specific classes), you need gears better than what drops in their own flashpoint to make it. Now, its totally possible to do all of them in crap gear (though in some cases its going to be class dependant). Compared to a lot of other MMOs out there, the hardest encounter is trivial. But compared to the loot you get from it, its simply silly. Better to get gears elsewhere (like the Eternity Vault, dailies, or PvP), THEN do the hardmode FP. And then its just praying the right Columi drop, else the entire run was a waste of time (aside for the commendation, which you need like 60 of). And all of that, just because of a handful of bosses that are completely out of the league of all the other. Oh, and some of the HM flashpoints don't even have any of those (Taral V, False Emperor,or even Eternity Vault...). So you can always repeat the same handful ones hoping to stack up on energized/tionese then go do those, but thats not exactly fun. Its just faster to stack up the champion gear. All around, terrible design. Just even things out. Either make everything on the same level as IronFist, but make sure the loot matches up, or fix the 3-4 bosses that are 50x harder than everything else**** ***Note: im not saying anything is hard. Just that comparatively with the other bosses, they're totally out of place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeledon Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 i bet this is one of the people who thought wrath and cata in wow were difficult Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somentine Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) The only 'hard' part about hardmodes is the bugs and enrage timers on a few of them. At least for Republic. Me and my tank friend started hard modes in greens and oranges that ranged between 45-50 and had a peice of champ gear or a lvl 49 epic that was made. We picked up two random people and ran HMs with them for 3 or so days. By day three, we were all decked out and it was even more a joke. That being said, I don't understand the point of the commendations or crystals. First of all, if you aren't mostly T2 by the time you even have enough Tioness to get a single piece, you were extremely unlucky. If you aren't completely T2 by the time you have enough to get a T2 by commendations, you are probably cursed. Idk, so much about this game is a bad attemp at being WoW. Some people are gonna go into a nerd rage and defend this game or insult WoW, but really. If you are going to copy most of the game, copy it properly. Think things through before you just put random numbers down. And before people start going ape shi on me for saying WoW on these forums, I stopped playing WoW and will only re-evaluate that decision when the expansion comes out. I am not a WoW fanboy. Edited January 18, 2012 by Somentine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annabethchase Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 possible solution: dont play with random guys Flashpoints should be easy enough to pick up group. If you can't pick up group for a flashpoint, what can you do with one? Pick up groups are vital to any healthy MMO to combat the feeling that you have to only group with the same guys over and over to progress. A friendly helpful community that is able to progress together is the key to long term success of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drunknurse Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I seriously fear "This raid/dungeon is too hard" threads. It's because of threads like this that Firelands heroics were nerfed to hell and Dragon Soul was an absolute faceroll walk in the park. Please, if you don't have the skill to do a raid A: Practice until you do B: Find another way to spend your time. I'm not interested in *another* game's difficulty being purged like a disease. Bugs are bugs and should always be fixed. If it's hard because it's bugged, fix the bug. If it's hard because it requires you not to suck, keep it as it is. Sorry if this sounded a little harsh but because of Cataclysm my vomit reflex kicks in when I see "this is too hard" when it comes to raids. ^^^^^^^^ This comment here. However I will add my 2 cents. Tier 11 was perfect. Normal wasn't too hard but it was a stepping stone and still felt challenging, simply because we didn't have gear. Then hardmode t11 was awesome, 4 "end" bosses all fairly well tuned and unique challenging fights. Then Firelands... They nerfed the hell out of it before 50 guilds in the world even downed HM Ragnaros. Remember when you complain and get something nerfed, you just ruined the fun for a lot of people. Maybe I sound selfish wanting content to be difficult, but really do you enjoy being able to roll bosses you know nothing about? Play a single player RPG on the lowest difficulty, then the highest difficulty. Which was more fun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oppolus Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Rofl. Developers, please, please, please do NOT turn this game into WOW, where every whining about: ITS TOO HARD, turns this game into a jump and run game... I will unsub the day it happens... I will not play another WOW style. Learn to play and deal with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfamousAssassin Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I'v rolled threw every HM FP when i was in orange gear, this craps easy idk y people think there so hard....even pugging we rolled them, l2p u have to have half a brain in this game as opposed to no brain in wow on there new dungeons, if this crap gets nerfed this game will fail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalan_mistral Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 The Only thing that really needs fixing are the bugs!! HM Progression - i'm sorry you expect to just walk thru everything like it's a stroll in the park? Learn the game, learn the mechanics of each HM, Learn your Class, and Learn how to gear yourself up if you aren't good enough to do it. OP Progression - Even on Normal mode things can get difficult, lack of gear, lack of concentration, you still need a group of 8 people all doing exactly what they should be doing when they need to do it, and i have to say Teamspeak/Mumble etc does make 8 people working together alot easier Gear Progression - ok seems a lot of people don't like this for one reason or another, and for me personally i think they should make PVP gear useless for anything other than erm err PVP, Once you hit 50 you have 3 main choices if you don't go the pvp route, Doing Dailies to get the Mods, Armour and Enhancements, winging your way thru HM's in the hope of drops, or Going on Ops in the hopes of getting drops, For me i was doing dailies upgrading my gear to make HM's easier so we all have a choice, and you might have noticed Moaning about it wasn't a choice i gave people Oh and on a final note, someone said they play this game for the storyline, hey guess what me too i love the storylines in SWTOR and i want to see lots more of it in the future, i wouldn't want this game to go the same way as WoW where hardly anyone knows why they are doing any of the missions or Raids etc LoL but for me i would also like to see alot more different HM's and alot more Different OP's and i don't care if they are all the same level/gear requirements, for me it's having more things to do. And if you aren't bothered about doing OP's you can't say you are here for the story, as the OP's are also a part of the story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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