direblaze Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Ok, leave their overpowered burst dps alone, let them keep their over the top utility and stuns, allow them to keep thier ranged dps. But change this one thing. Ops and scoundrels are not force users, they are not shadows or assassins, why should they be able to stealth forever like those two? they don't have the force power to blind people do they? no. so for ops and scoundrels put a cooldown on stealth for 12 seconds, only allow them to be in stealth for 10 seconds, using vanish resets the cooldown for use and in stealth timer. this way shadows and assassin would actually be able to do something better than those ops/scoundrels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidank Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 or we just make them do less burst damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juicenewtonz Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Or the class is fine and you are just bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trivialed Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Ok, leave their overpowered burst dps alone, let them keep their over the top utility and stuns, allow them to keep thier ranged dps. But change this one thing. Ops and scoundrels are not force users, they are not shadows or assassins, why should they be able to stealth forever like those two? they don't have the force power to blind people do they? no. so for ops and scoundrels put a cooldown on stealth for 12 seconds, only allow them to be in stealth for 10 seconds, using vanish resets the cooldown for use and in stealth timer. this way shadows and assassin would actually be able to do something better than those ops/scoundrels. Your post shows you know nothing about assassins/shadows and operatives/scoundrels. Do I really need to explain it? Or do you think you can figure it out on your own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evuke Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Rift all over again, all the Wow kiddies rolled mages, they all qq'ed about their counter class (saboteur - another burst dps class) owning them until sabos were nerfed to death, then mages became gods with no counter. BW don't listen to these whining kids, there's a reason operatives/smugglers are the LEAST played classes, they're not OP, but they are the counter to the most played classes (sorcs/sages) so expect a lot of whining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direblaze Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) it seems operatives and scoundrels are counters to everyone, sure keep stealth as it is, but have the nerf hit hard on the retarded burst dps and cc that is so utterly game breaking. OH, and stop being an fool, not everyone played wow, and people like me only played it for 3 months at most. There are tons better mmos than wow, daoc, aoc, eq1/2 are afew. Edited January 17, 2012 by direblaze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidank Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Rift all over again, all the Wow kiddies rolled mages, they all qq'ed about their counter class (saboteur - another burst dps class) owning them until sabos were nerfed to death, then mages became gods with no counter. BW don't listen to these whining kids, there's a reason operatives/smugglers are the LEAST played classes, they're not OP, but they are the counter to the most played classes (sorcs/sages) so expect a lot of whining. Actually, you would be surprised by how many classes are countered by 9k crits... A lot like how pretty much every class in rift was countered by saboteurs instantly killing everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidSpectre Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Or the class is fine and you are just bad pretty sure you lose any credit for calling others bad with the "autofacing is a good thing" you have in your sig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depth_mil Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Rift all over again, all the Wow kiddies rolled mages, they all qq'ed about their counter class (saboteur - another burst dps class) owning them until sabos were nerfed to death, then mages became gods with no counter. BW don't listen to these whining kids, there's a reason operatives/smugglers are the LEAST played classes, they're not OP, but they are the counter to the most played classes (sorcs/sages) so expect a lot of whining. I semiregularly die in or just after the 3s knockdown to very geared operatives on a JG in full champion gear. Yes this is usually consumable stacking, but it's a little silly to blame all the qq op threads on operatives just countering sages. I'm pretty sure the instagibs happen to everyone, a preemptive bubble is worth a lot more than the armor difference I think. It's very apparent that something is pretty badly out of whack when playing, and unless you're already aware of how insanely broken biochem is (and surge scaling in general, but hey), your first conclusion is probably that operatives are broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 BW don't listen to these whining kids, there's a reason operatives/smugglers are the LEAST played classes, they're not OP, but they are the counter to the most played classes (sorcs/sages) so expect a lot of whining. This is a complete lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vunak Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) FIX: Lessen burst. Increase survivability. I really wish a development team would get it right with a rogue type class. When I think rogue, I think an agile person. Give the class a decent amount of evasion. Make them hard to hit. But they don't have lightsabers or the force. They have vibroknifes. How does a vibroknife do more then a lightsaber? Lessen there burst. Make it more sustained. Would help in PVE as well. No class should have a sustainable stealth. This is for all stealth classes, assassins are strong as well. At lvl 10 I was hitting fully champion geared 50's for over 3k dmg. Give stealth a 45 second duration, gives them plenty of time to pop it get away or engage there target on there terms. Give them an in-combat stealth on a 1:30 cooldown. Take away the position requirements for certain abilities. Instead, allow those abilities to do more damage from a certain position. Increase survivability through armor, or evasion. Fixed. Now you have a stable class thats useful in endgame raiding, is fun difficult and rewarding to play. And you lessened the frustration other people feel when they get burnt in one CC. Edited January 17, 2012 by Vunak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evuke Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) It's a burst dps class, you are being bursted! at the end of that burst you are either dead, or the operative is because they will be completely out of energy. Any nerf to making them incapable of killing someone in that initial burst will make them useless, because they have no sustained dps due to their energy efficiency (it doesn't regen like other classes) If they are changed from a burst dps class to a sustained dps class then fine, but isn't that what an assassin/shadow is? Edited January 17, 2012 by Evuke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidank Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) It's a burst dps class, you are being bursted! at the end of that burst you are either dead, or the operative is because they will be completely out of energy. Any nerf to making them incapable of killing someone in that initial burst will make them useless, because they have no sustained dps due to their energy efficiency (it doesn't regen like other classes) A decent scoundrel that keybinds cool head & pugnacity won't run out of energy for at least a minute, and that's spamming attacks on every gcd. That isn't burst. Edited January 17, 2012 by Aidank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juicenewtonz Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 pretty sure you lose any credit for calling others bad with the "autofacing is a good thing" you have in your sig You are right, when laggy melee players can make it hell for any ranged player because they are teleporting around with their movement the ranged player should be forced to suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depth_mil Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 It's a burst dps class, you are being bursted! at the end of that burst you are either dead, or the operative is because they will be completely out of energy. Any nerf to making them incapable of killing someone in that initial burst will make them useless, because they have no sustained dps due to their energy efficiency (it doesn't regen like other classes) Ammo/heat work the same way - the idea is to penalize you for doing exactly what you're trying to do (dump all your resource and try to instagib someone). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direblaze Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 It's a burst dps class, you are being bursted! at the end of that burst you are either dead, or the operative is because they will be completely out of energy. Any nerf to making them incapable of killing someone in that initial burst will make them useless, because they have no sustained dps due to their energy efficiency (it doesn't regen like other classes) If they are changed from a burst dps class to a sustained dps class then fine, but isn't that what an assassin/shadow is? Total lie, snipers are a burst class and deal way less damage. Ops rarly run low on energy due to their skill tree, and if the fight goes bad they press the magic instant stealth button that works even when god himself is hitting you, then its the small case of attacking again when you have the knockdown back up and winning because the target already used all his counters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vunak Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) It's a burst dps class, you are being bursted! at the end of that burst you are either dead, or the operative is because they will be completely out of energy. Any nerf to making them incapable of killing someone in that initial burst will make them useless, because they have no sustained dps due to their energy efficiency (it doesn't regen like other classes) You sound like an operative that relies on that initial burst. This is wrong. So very wrong. I've been pulled out of stealth many times and still come out of it heads up. Why? Because we have a lot of tools at our disposal. Hit them with your stun. They break it? Fine.. flash bang them. You still get your backstab. shiv and laceration in on them. You pulled them to well over half health in those few CD's. They panic and stun you. Break it. Circle strafe around and Backstab again. If your fighting something that does a lot of burst as well. LOS and heal. If its a melee. Kite them. Sure there is a lot that can happen in those few seconds. But you aren't a sitting duck like every other bad operative relying on that initial burst would love other to believe. The burst is to much Bioware. Its to easy of a class to play. Hidden Strike...Backstab....shiv...laceration...dead. Dont forget to use acid blade before you backstab guys. Oh dont forget the stims and all that. 9k crit. Very easy. Edited January 17, 2012 by Vunak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wixxkruppel Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Or the class is fine and you are just bad What she said. Edited January 17, 2012 by wixxkruppel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Morholt_ Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Perfect way to fix them is to buff them, so that we don't see 6-7 Sorc or Merc BGs....I wonder why!!!!!!! If you don't know why, L2P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastion-fox Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I will keep playing my lethality build until the nerf comes, it will eventually come because of all the whining. Plus out of all the MMOs I have played rogue classes bloom near max level or the latest. Operative/Scoundrel is no different, they become extremely dangerous at 40+ as that's when the opener is 100% knockdown unless you have full resolve. Oh well. I won't change once we get nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDiscordia Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 This is a complete lie. [citation needed] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocorras Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 You are right, when laggy melee players can make it hell for any ranged player because they are teleporting around with their movement the ranged player should be forced to suffer. Yeah like ranged players don't teleport all around when I'm trying to melee them. Autofacing should not be in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juicenewtonz Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yeah like ranged players don't teleport all around when I'm trying to melee them. Autofacing should not be in pvp. Then put in player collision so melees cant just strafe back and forth inside of a ranged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direblaze Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Perfect way to fix them is to buff them, so that we don't see 6-7 Sorc or Merc BGs....I wonder why!!!!!!! If you don't know why, L2P fool, anyone with half a brain would know why so many play them,, Mercs are by far the best looking class, they are bounty hunters, everyone and their dog who saw the movie or knows the lore wants to play one.. Sorcerers are played by anyone who likes mages, and since throwing pebbles looks silly they chose sorcerers. IT has nothing to do with how they play, its all about how they look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direblaze Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Then put in player collision so melees cant just strafe back and forth inside of a ranged Fix the physics too so whenever we knock someone back they dont just rubber band in an odd direction or not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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