Celebrus Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Expecting 2012 problems is acceptable. Seeing 2007 problems is not. We should be 'patient and understanding' to a plumber that uses known flawed materials and practices when installing a system into your house --- and certainly should not be 'happy' that he has come back to fix a mistake that should not have occurred in the first place. The difference being that you're in the plumber's house, he's not in yours, and you've paid to use his toilet. You must have been too caught up in the moment to notice any of the blemishes on the throne, but you've paid, and you might as well make the most of it while improvements are made. I love analogies. Lets make more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The difference being that you're in the plumber's house, he's not in yours, and you've paid to use his toilet. You must have been too caught up in the moment to notice any of the blemishes on the throne, but you've paid, and you might as well make the most of it while improvements are made. I love analogies. Lets make more. Or after using the plumber's toilet, you notice it has numerous issues that you find inexplicable. After all - how could a plumber have such a poorly maintained toilet in his own home? So you begin to question his competence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaiHeilos Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The difference being that you're in the plumber's house, he's not in yours, and you've paid to use his toilet. You must have been too caught up in the moment to notice any of the blemishes on the throne, but you've paid, and you might as well make the most of it while improvements are made. I love analogies. Lets make more. But he made you pay before you could even enter the house. How were you supposed to know his house would be a mess and his toilet covered in crap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tatarski Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm just happy people like you are quitting. I just hope you stay away and don't come back to ask for dumb changes and nerfs. Bye now. you just prove how right he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mufutiz Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I love how you people who whine and moan about premades try and make it sound like every single time you pvp there is a premade of fully geared and max expertise 50s. Its no where near that bad. besides, half the enemy team is pug. quit making a mountain out of a dust speck and acting like you can't understand why no one else is all "waaa waa yeah yer right bro!11" Going against a team that communicates is a tough fight period, wether they are 50s or not, get used to being out played or join a guild and use vent or whatever and quit expecting the developers to cater to the lowest common denominator, which is you. It's still a good question isn't it? You also got me wrong, I have no problem with premade groups whatsoever. Premade vs premade is the best form of PvP, the one I enjoy participating in the most. I was just using this crass example to demonstrate the extent to which the current system is working because a battlemaster geared premade vs a whole team of level 10-20s is a realistic scenario in this game. The most extreme one? Yes. But there are several shades of gray in between and all of them wrong. Since you took the time to reply to me, do me the honor and answer the question: What is the difference between SWTOR and every other, at least minorly successful MMORPG of the last years? Why has bracketed PvP worked in every other game but would not have worked in this one. I am genuinely curious. I am unable to see it but unlike many community members I am always willing to broaden my horizon. So educate me please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celebrus Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 But he made you pay before you could even enter the house. How were you supposed to know his house would be a mess and his toilet covered in crap? No. This plumber has worked in a glass house for some time now. If you didn't see the crap stains on those windows it's a lack of awareness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macabrae Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I think you over-estimate the number of crybaby quiters willing to drop the game because of stuff that is going to be fixed anyway. I couldn't agree more with this statement. Fact is the forums most of the time are a place to come complain. I have talked with lots of people in game who never come to the forums and post who love everything Bioware is doing so these people don't get heard from. Threads like these you will find in every MMO game made. At any given point WOW will have several people threatening to quit over this or that and have since that game launched and ya know what? They are the most successful MMO to date. What I also find funny is that most of those people are just stopping their feet on the ground like a child who didn't get their way telling their "Mommy and Daddy" they don't love them anymore.\ and are running away from home. I know this game has its flaws and EVERY game does. I was around for the launch of many games and this one is by far the best launch ever. Lots of people I know IRL are now starting to play this game who have been traditionally console gamers have told me this game has become their crack and love it SO while the "hard to please" people may cry and quit there are LOTS and LOTS more coming and playing loving the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soyuz Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yes there are Issues with PvP *shrug* WoW was far from perfect upon release, did anyone see the video of the paladin on the horde zepplin who alone took out like 15 horde? did people completely forget how OP rogues were? (there was a 3 part video series just to illustrate unbalanced pvp) did people completely forget premades farming BGs before blizzard created the premade vs premade patch? WoW wasn't stellar from the get go, nor will any other MMO. PvP is ****ed up right now yes, but you know what? nobody's holding a gun to your head and making you pvp, its not the games ONLY aspect. in case everyone forgot bioware put painstaking effort into their story which is why people play games like KOTOR or mass effect. If you quit that's fine, its your money, its your choice. but good luck trying to find something better. you guys tout on about guild wars 2 or terra, guess what? they're not going to be perfectly balanced either, in fact I'll bet it'll be the same thing, then everyone will be ************ about that lol. MMOs take time to evolve and improve which is their whole point- a constantly evolving world that never remains the same. if you want instant gratification the FPS's are that way -------> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grafikk Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 OMG it's been a month everyone FREAK OUT!!! lol, see ya homie. You my friend are the poster child for what is wrong with today's MMOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHotter Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 PvP is a tough beast. It can make a game more interesting, but it has a way of chasing off players who are getting a beating. When the guys who are now saying "LTP noob" lose their easier targets and realize they have to spend all their time playing one character and farming consumables and joining a well geared pre-made on vent in order to compete they may be the next in the 'it's not worth the effort' crowd. Any game that wants to have a lot of players would do well if they can figure out a way to have players with similar abilities/gear matched up against each other. I just don't think there are enough players in any game to have 24/7 well matched games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mufutiz Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 OMG it's been a month everyone FREAK OUT!!! lol, see ya homie. You my friend are the poster child for what is wrong with today's MMOs. doing this during the first month is probably the worst timing ever. Nobody would even care a year from now. In fact most people would welcome it then, probably, since low level PvP will be a lot less active than it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilsteps Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I really do wonder why people like you are so blatantly dense and ignorant. I might consider trolling but you guys seem to be genuinely serious. Nobody expects to go against a 50 on a lowbie character and prevail. What a lot of people are asking themselves is why Bioware allowed this when pretty much every other, remotely, big MMORPG on the market has shown them how it's done properly. It is a complete farce. There is no real way any person in an executive position should have looked at it and said: Yeah, that's a good idea! But since that must have been the case (I am really hoping for an alternative explanation)...god have mercy on our souls. A fix is on the way, and everyone who was not the first handful at 50 went through it without the tears. If trying to compete despite being at a disadvantage is too intolerable for some to take then just quit. I enjoyed trying to be effective against the geared players. I like that there are no brackets as it makes it more of a challenge. Remember when gamers liked a challenge? Also, people cry about the game not having anything new, then in the same forums cry that it doesn't have features the older games have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mufutiz Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 A fix is on the way, and everyone who was not the first handful at 50 went through it without the tears. If trying to compete despite being at a disadvantage is too intolerable for some to take then just quit. I enjoyed trying to be effective against the geared players. I like that there are no brackets as it makes it more of a challenge. Remember when gamers liked a challenge? Also, people cry about the game not having anything new, then in the same forums cry that it doesn't have features the older games have. It is not about being unable to compete. For me personally it is not even about my personal experience, since I am playing my Sentinel alt exclusively in carebear-mode right now. It is just completely beyond my understanding how this happened. I am not trying to vent here. I am genuinely afraid about what the future holds for PvP in this game and quite hesistant to waste too much of my limited time on it for that reason. Didn't really help that a german CM today posted in slightly different wording: L2PVE guys! PvP is just an afterthought in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravinian Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 This OP: I'm not sure if you know how a forum works but you're doing it wrong. Ps- sorry you it's too difficult for you to idk NOT pvp? If you're getting face rolled, that's your own fault not Biowares. If your main focus is pvp the m getting 50 wouldnt be a problem. They have so many more issues that they are working on to care about one qq unsub. You fail I had a legitimate expectation of PvP when I bought the game. I think most players did. You seem to want to blame me for a poor piece of game design. Which as I mentioned earlier to another poster, is fine, I understand why you do it. If you didn't blame me you would have to accept that Bioware was to blame and then you might feel compelled to do something about it. That is fine by me, honestly, I don't mind, whatever makes it possible for you to continue to give your money to a company without feeling like an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravinian Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 As I said before, it isn't about being able to compete, or even the disparity in gear. It is about a company sitting on their hands doing nothing about a large number of their playerbase being roflstomped due to a design error. The error itself isn't the problem, the problem is the reaction to that error. To do nothing. To sit and wait, while weeks go by, doing nothing. This issue deserved a short term hotfix while they looked at the larger problems. Not two weeks of sitting around doing nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravinian Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Oh something I did notice earlier though. The "oh why don't you get to 50 crowd, its pretty easy don't take that long!!" Then the same group two minutes later..."oh its only been a month...hardly a long time!!"" So which is it? Long enough, apparently, to totally ruin someone's entire game play to max level? Funny how two contradictory answers can exist in the same mind at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mufutiz Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) I had a legitimate expectation of PvP when I bought the game. I think most players did. Exactly. Had they been honest right from the start and prepared us for just how much of an afterthought PvP would be in this game, I don't think many people would complain now. They wouldn't have expected any different. But just before the game launched PvP was hyped really hard once again, especially Ilum which turned out to be the biggest joke of it all. Obviously this had to be done but you cannot blame people for getting hit by reality really hard now. There has almost no progress been made for PvP in MMORPGs over the last few years. After Guild Wars and WoW Arena there have been some A's for effort but that's it. And now the best SWTOR can offer is - first 4 weeks mind you - Open PvP DOA and FFA brackets that group together lowbies and fully progressed 50's? Edited January 17, 2012 by mufutiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheldon_Ghast Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Bye OP, the game will be much better without you because that's one less person who's whining will not ruin this game. Not a fanboi, but I realize that there are things that must be worked for and if I want to step into the same arena and have the same rewards as other players who put in the time and effort, there is a period where I am going to be fresh meat. GET OVER IT!!!!..., Having an all 50 bracket won't fix anything, and really instead you are handicapping players who may have just gotten to the point where they can get into warzones and want to pvp with their friends who have been playing the game a while. What do you say to those people? To bad, you should have bought the game sooner? Anyway, I digress..., as I said, goodbye, and can I have your stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soyuz Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) As I said before, it isn't about being able to compete, or even the disparity in gear. It is about a company sitting on their hands doing nothing about a large number of their playerbase being roflstomped due to a design error. The error itself isn't the problem, the problem is the reaction to that error. To do nothing. To sit and wait, while weeks go by, doing nothing. This issue deserved a short term hotfix while they looked at the larger problems. Not two weeks of sitting around doing nothing. patches require coding. are you a programmer? if not let me explain, very simply...you fix one bug and another pops up. tinkering with code in an attempt to fix one problem often leads to another springing up, this is my existence as a CIT major. so trust me when I say, i'm sure they're working as fast as they can. if they patch too quickly that patch can have unforeseen bugs. which would make you a very sad panda. Edited January 17, 2012 by Soyuz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilsteps Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 As I said before, it isn't about being able to compete, or even the disparity in gear. It is about a company sitting on their hands doing nothing about a large number of their playerbase being roflstomped due to a design error. The error itself isn't the problem, the problem is the reaction to that error. To do nothing. To sit and wait, while weeks go by, doing nothing. This issue deserved a short term hotfix while they looked at the larger problems. Not two weeks of sitting around doing nothing. Not weeks......oh the humanity!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srqt Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Even now it isn't that bad. Seriously I'm level 39 and my Kills are always substantially higher than my deaths I am usually in the top 5 for damage in the WZ and win more than I lose. Sure once in a while you run into a geared 50 premade and you get rolled but they are not that frequent and they are getting their own bracket before it gets out of control. I really don't see how this could have been handled better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogfatherxx Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Me wish that person excuze I becuse me not do english two good but me red some place that a newer 50 only group is going to be in game very sune. i want boy and girl too pleez be not impatient. Thank yoo and good new days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravinian Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 patches require coding. are you a programmer? if not let me explain, very simply...you fix one bug and another pops up. tinkering with code in an attempt to fix one problem often leads to another springing up, this is my existence as a CIT major. so trust me when I say, i'm sure they're working as fast as they can. if they patch too quickly that patch can have unforeseen bugs. which would make you a very sad panda. How would turning expertise = 0 have created another bug? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatanic Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Even now it isn't that bad. Seriously I'm level 39 and my Kills are always substantially higher than my deaths I am usually in the top 5 for damage in the WZ and win more than I lose. Sure once in a while you run into a geared 50 premade and you get rolled but they are not that frequent and they are getting their own bracket before it gets out of control. I really don't see how this could have been handled better. I call BS on this one. We **** any lvl39s we ever meet over and over. Most 50s that doesnt have pvp gear aswell. And it will only get worse the more of us who gets battlemaster over the comming days. Btw, your kills doesnt mean a thing. A stealther can go 30-0 easy enough and still loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loekii Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Any game that wants to have a lot of players would do well if they can figure out a way to have players with similar abilities/gear matched up against each other. I just don't think there are enough players in any game to have 24/7 well matched games. While they cannot get a well matched game, they can at least get it as close as they can -- which is a lot closer than they released with. For example, they could have released with the option to queue for 'bracketed' Warzones or open Warzones. This would have created brackets for players looking for brackets, while also allowing for those looking to for open warzones to queue up as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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