Top 10 most powerful Sith and Jedi

[Rayla_Felana]

1. Darth Sidious.

2. Darth Vitiate. (SWTOR new addition).

3. Darth Nihilus

4. Darth Vader.

5. Wrath of the Emperor (SWTOR new addition).

6. Marka Ragnos

7. Darth Sion.

8. Darth Bane.

9. Naga Sadow.

10. Darth Nox (SWTOR new addition).

 

1. Luke Skywalker.

2. Anakin Skywalker.

3. Yoda.

4. Unnamed Jedi Knight Hero (SWTOR new addition).

5. Unnamed Jedi Consular Hero (SWTOR new addition).

6. Reborn Revan (during KOTOR Revan).

7. Kyle Katarn.

8. Mace Windu.

9. Ben Kenobi

10. Jedi Exile.

 

I think that's a very fair and balanced list except i would put Windu (possibly the second greatest Duellist ever) to 4.

[Tinasa]

This list should read....

 

1. Darth Vader.

2. Yoda

3. Luke Skywalker

4. Darth Sidious

5. Obi-Wan Kenobi

[Zeratho]

I will post top-5 only.

 

Jedi:

 

1. Yoda

2. Anakin Skywalker

3. Luke Skywalker

4. Obi-Wan Kenobi

5. Qui-Gon Jinn

 

(Actually I don't even know that many strong jedi outside the movies. Maybe Revan sure, but no one else comes to my mind.)

 

Sith:

 

1. The Emperor of the Sith Empire

2. Darth Sidious

3. Darth Vader

4. Darth Revan

5. Darth Tyranus (Count Dooku)

 

(Sure there are Marka Ragnos, Naga Shadow, Darth Bane, but how could I know how strong they are since I don't know what they have done.)

[Spartanik]

Sith

 

1) Darth Sidious as per canon the Most Powerfull Sith to have ever lived

2) Darth Vader really do i have to list why?

3) Marka Ragnos <--- how bad *** can you be when you are mostly the only Sith to have died of old age

4) Darth Vitatiate(sp?) Gotta respect a guy that takes over a millenia to plan his return and really hit the Republic where it hurts, now we will see if that carefull planning succeed or not.

5) Naga Sadow <-----> Ludo Kresh, I put them equal because well they were pretty much even and they could have kept at it until their forces would be in ashes

6) Exar-Kun I'm surprised he's not on anyone list since he "survive" until Luke Skywalker NJO days and was considered enough of a threat by Empreror Vitatiate(sp?) to have his tomb sealed. (say so in the Gnosh dural journals)

7) Darth Nihilus, the SW version of Galactus

8) Darth Sion, The only way to kill him was for himself to will himself to die

9) Darth Bane, Rule of 2 nuff said.

10) Darth Revan as much as I like Revan and all as per Kotor he failed to do what he was sent to do by the empreror thus never suceeded in doing anything worth while as a Dark Lord other than being the big bad of the day.

 

Sith honnorable mention

 

Ulic Qel-Droma, Darth Cadeus, Darth Traya (suceeded in confusing the heck out of me and being creepy)

 

Jedi

 

1) Luke Skywalker <----> Yoda <----> Anakin Skywalker. With those 3 depending on how you see things and depending on what Era you take them and what context would usually take the top spot and be shuffled around.

2) Qui Gon Jinn <--- a Jedi that saw differently from other Jedi and was not afraid of talking trash to the council when he knew they were in the wrong and knew they weren't infaible(sp)

3) Nomi Sunrider, Battle meditation and could cut someone from the force. (the question still remain if it was permantly or temporary

4) Jedi Exile <---- rebuilt the jedi order and trained the next generation of Jedi masters, cut herself from the force and reformed that bond. She could form bonds with other, she's a very strange jedi.

5) Kyle Katarn

6) Revan<----> Qilan Vos <--- If you look at them closely they pretty much walked the same path between the Dark & Light Side of the force. Revan have slight advantage over Vos but not by much.

7) Grand Master Satele Shan

8) Mara Jade Skywalker

9) Celeste Morne, She took on Muur and won resisted being taken over by him, Fought Vader and survived and then met Cade Skywalker.

10) Zayne Carrick <--- the living proof that the Force has a sense of humor

 

Note: Obi Wan Kenobi is not on the list right now because I don't know where to put him in order with the others but he should be somewhere in that list.

 

Honorable Jedi Mention

 

The Solo Children, Jaden Korr, Cade Skywalker (I don't know if he's included to be a jedi or not given his affinity with using the darkside of the force), Kyp Duron, Master Tholme, Kera Holt

Now that is a list i agree to. also on note the jedi exile her name is Metraa surik, and Vitiate the emperor there is some interesting facts, like he defeated a sith lord and age or 7 or 8 and took over a planet. Its an interesting story how vitiate came to power.. he pretty devoid a planet of the force and life by doing its ritual to become imortal killing every sith lord who were with him. On the note i think revan was a bit stronger then you sugested he fought the emperor allmost evenly, he just couldnt repeal his lightning but vitiate had some dificulty fighting him even fear. He also succeeded in influencing the emperor mind and halting his plans on destroying the republic, and delaying it for 300 years, not only that but the treaty of coruscant might be his influence as well on vitiate mind. also he had help trough the force from metraa ( the exile through all this time).

 

Also about Nomi sunrider she is probably one of the strongest jedi ever imo she cut Ulic quel droma from the force permantly, that however doesnt mean he couldnt became one with the force after he died, wich happen, as he found redemption by training Nomis daughter, amazing feat for someone who no longer feels the force but was previously connected to.

Ulic is probably one of my favorite characters as well exar kun and Revan story wise.

i have a bit of issues with darth Nihilius, i dont find him taht powerfull since he was strugling to survive, his power was on boughted time imo, he tried to feed on the exile ( Metraa surik) but he couldnt the exile was a wound in the force just like himself in way, the diference he need to trap hgis spirit in his mask and armor just to stay alive. he had power against othes yes but sooner or later he would fade. imo.

[unicornfive]

1. Darth Sidious.

2. Darth Vitiate. (SWTOR new addition).

3. Darth Nihilus

4. Darth Vader.

5. Wrath of the Emperor (SWTOR new addition).

6. Marka Ragnos

7. Darth Sion.

8. Darth Bane.

9. Naga Sadow.

10. Darth Nox (SWTOR new addition).

 

1. Luke Skywalker.

2. Anakin Skywalker.

3. Yoda.

4. Unnamed Jedi Knight Hero (SWTOR new addition).

5. Unnamed Jedi Consular Hero (SWTOR new addition).

6. Reborn Revan (during KOTOR Revan).

7. Kyle Katarn.

8. Mace Windu.

9. Ben Kenobi

10. Jedi Exile.

 

Darth Vader 4, ahahahahahahahhaaaHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH

I wouldnt even add him to the list

[BrandonSM]

Now that is a list i agree to. also on note the jedi exile her name is Metraa surik, and Vitiate the emperor there is some interesting facts, like he defeated a sith lord and age or 7 or 8 and took over a planet. Its an interesting story how vitiate came to power.. he pretty devoid a planet of the force and life by doing its ritual to become imortal killing every sith lord who were with him. On the note i think revan was a bit stronger then you sugested he fought the emperor allmost evenly, he just couldnt repeal his lightning but vitiate had some dificulty fighting him even fear. He also succeeded in influencing the emperor mind and halting his plans on destroying the republic, and delaying it for 300 years, not only that but the treaty of coruscant might be his influence as well on vitiate mind. also he had help trough the force from metraa ( the exile through all this time).

 

No, he didn't. Revan managed a knockback and all that did was pi*s off The Emperor. And thats why Vitate is now feeding on Revan's mind.

 

You guys overrate Revan too much. Sidious and Vitate and Vader most other Sith would destroy him.

[JarredBane]

I have to disagree with allof you, technically speaking vader was not even a true sith, he was a converteddark jedi just like dooku. they were not brought up in the principles of the sith, nor did they adhere to the rule of two. neither did palpatine either. in terms of influence on the history of the sith order, Darth Bane was the most influential, by destroying the chaotic natureof the sith and setting the stage for the time when palpatine would over throw the jedi. Banes cunning and power allowed him to not only destroy the entire sith order, but foolthe jedi into believing they'd won. palpatine and his dark apprentices would never even have had the chance if it wasn't for Bane andhis ideas.

 

In terms of the most powerful sith ever i would say it was Exar Khun. not other sith had the audacity orpower to strike down a jedi master in the chamber of the galactic senate, and walk away. when the jedi and the republic found him they didn't even risk a direct confrontation with Khun, theydestroyed yavin 4 from orbit to kill him. and he still survived as a spirit to influence kyp durron thousands of years later. You can't argue with that kind of power.

 

Sorry brandon, Revan would have chopped vader into little dog treats, the empror definately could have beat him any day, but vader was never as powerful as he could have been,otherwise he would have challenged palpatine directly as was the way of of one master one apprentice

Edited January 21, 2012 by JarredBane

[bfishback]

I have to disagree with allof you, technically speaking vader was not even a true sith, he was a converteddark jedi just like dooku. they were not brought up in the principles of the sith, nor did they adhere to the rule of two. neither did palpatine either.

 

This is wrong, because Count Dooku and Palpatine both did adhere to the rule of two.

 

Darth Maul wasn't just a tool to be used, and we can assume it was the same for Ventress. They were never intended to be sith lords, and were never apart of the Darth Bane legacy or even considered true sith.

 

However, Galatic Empire Era/new republic era, I'm not sure if Palpatine still respected the rule of two, because I haven't read much EU in those eras.

 

and Dark Jedi =/= Jedi who turned to Sith

 

Dark Jedi were Jedi who used the dark side, and were not apart of the order. However, this does not mean they were apart of the Sith. They are like Grey Jedi, but focus on the Dark Side. They use their powers for personal gain. This is explained in the Darth Bane trilogy, btw.

 

If someone went to the Sith after leaving the Jedi Order, they still are considered Sith. You're a Sith if you adhere to the principles of the Sith and use the dark side of the force. You once being a Jedi or not means nothing.

Edited January 21, 2012 by bfishback

[JarredBane]

no it wasn't darth maul was trained to be so loyal to to the emperor that he had no ambitions to best palpatine. that's a direct thrashing of the rule of two, which states the master must fall to the apprentice. Palpatines designs were to rule forever, and never have an aprrentice seek to overthrow him. not to mention dooku took anapprentice in assajj ventress, violating the rule of two as well, and so did vader. the act of taking an apprentice when there was already one master and one apprentice is a violation of the rule of two, even if they weren't intended to rise to the place of master. Edited January 21, 2012 by JarredBane

[BrandonSM]

This is wrong, because Count Dooku and Palpatine both did adhere to the rule of two.

 

Darth Maul wasn't just a tool to be used, and we can assume it was the same for Ventress. They were never intended to be sith lords, and were never apart of the Darth Bane legacy or even considered true sith.

 

However, Galatic Empire Era/new republic era, I'm not sure if Palpatine still respected the rule of two, because I haven't read much EU in those eras.

 

and Dark Jedi =/= Jedi who turned to Sith

 

Dark Jedi were Jedi who used the dark side, and were not apart of the order. However, this does not mean they were apart of the Sith. They are like Grey Jedi, but focus on the Dark Side. They use their powers for personal gain. This is explained in the Darth Bane trilogy, btw.

 

If someone went to the Sith after leaving the Jedi Order, they still are considered Sith. You're a Sith if you adhere to the principles of the Sith and use the dark side of the force. You once being a Jedi or not means nothing.

 

 

Maul was Sidious's Apprentice. But Sidious knew Maul would never come close to defeating him. He wanted Dooku because Dooku was the best of the Jedi at that time before Skywalker. He also seemed the most vulnerable, and Sidious moved in to turn him etc yaddaa yaddaa.

 

 

Palps went on and off with the Rule of Two. Lets just say he didn't use it religously, sometimes multiple apprentices sometimes just Vader. But when his death came(His first one), Vader was his only apprentice.

 

I'm not all too familiar with Palps though. The above is what I think had happened.

[bfishback]

Maul was Sidious's Apprentice. But Sidious knew Maul would never come close to defeating him. He wanted Dooku because Dooku was the best of the Jedi at that time before Skywalker. He also seemed the most vulnerable, and Sidious moved in to turn him etc yaddaa yaddaa.

 

 

Palps went on and off with the Rule of Two. Lets just say he didn't use it religously, sometimes multiple apprentices sometimes just Vader. But when his death came(His first one), Vader was his only apprentice.

 

I'm not all too familiar with Palps though. The above is what I think had happened.

 

Maul was not his true apprentice. If you read the recent Plagueius book, Maul is just used as an assassin for Plagueius and Palpatine. Palpatine never trained him in the force.

 

Hell, before even Dooku becomes his apprentice, he already realizes that Anakin will truly be the one. He just takes Dooku for the time being.

Edited January 21, 2012 by bfishback

[Rhyltran]

Where is Lord Starkiller/Galen Marek in everyone's list?

 

Galen Marek is up there but isn't near Sidious or Luke level. Many people's descriptions are biased anyway. Whoever doesn't put Sid/Luke at the top are wrong. No one has shown to be at their level. Also some lists make me laugh. Example, Luke being at the top and Jacen Solo being at the bottom when he managed to injure Luke Skywalker. As much as I don't like his character he's extremely powerful. To injure Luke in a duel is spectacular especially considering Luke defeated Sidious in his prime in a lightsaber match and managed to move so quickly that he appeared as 20 lightsaber blades as he cut down the Vong.

 

Also to the one who claimed Revan would destroy Vader.. incorrect. Vader, even though he could never reach his full potential, was still beyond most Sith Lords. Vader WAS brought up in the ways of the Sith and studied various Sith teachings.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Rhyltran

[bfishback]

no it wasn't darth maul was trained to be so loyal to to the emperor that he had no ambitions to best palpatine. that's a direct thrashing of the rule of two, which states the master must fall to the apprentice. Palpatines designs were to rule forever, and never have an aprrentice seek to overthrow him. not to mention dooku took anapprentice in assajj ventress, violating the rule of two as well, and so did vader. the act of taking an apprentice when there was already one master and one apprentice is a violation of the rule of two, even if they weren't intended to rise to the place of master.

 

Darth Maul was trained to be loyal because he was never meant to be a Sith Lord. He wasn't Palpatine's true apprentice. It doesn't break the rule of two because of this.

 

And like I said, I'm going to bet it was the same for Ventress. Palpatine probably allowed Dooku to use her simply as a tool, much like Plageuis allowed Palpatine to use Maul as a tool.

 

Yeah, Vader did want Starkiller to be his apprentice. I'll give you that.

 

And please, people, read the Plageuis book before you talk about Maul. His true purpose is explained in the book.

 

Or at the very least read Wookiepedia. It's aggravating to explain the same thing repeatedly.

Edited January 21, 2012 by bfishback

[BrandonSM]

Maul was not his true apprentice. If you read the recent Plagueius book, Maul is just used as an assassin for Plagueius and Palpatine. Palpatine never trained him in the force.

 

Hell, before even Dooku becomes his apprentice, he already realizes that Anakin will truly be the one. He just takes Dooku for the time being.

 

Arrgh! I guess thats true.

[Rhyltran]

For those who claim Vader is weak I give you this. An argument from another thread I posted to someone asking for a source of Vader's prowess. People misunderstand. I explain that Vader was powerful and they go "BUT HE LOST SO MUCH OF HIS POTENTIAL" he did but lost potential doesn't mean weakling. If he didn't lose his potential he would have potentially become the most powerful force sensitive in Star Wars history. Instead, he became 80% of Sidious (according to G Lucas.) which is still powerful but not as powerful as he could have been.

 

Being 80% of Sidious is still far stronger than 99% of the Dark Lords in the Star Wars universe.

 

 

"Now that Vader had begun to tap deeply into the power of the dark side, his true apprenticeship can begin."

 

"More important, by the time Vader was capable of becoming a risk to his mastery, Sidious would be fully conversant with the secrets Plagueis had spent a lifetime seeking - the power over life and death. There would be no need to fear Vader. No need to have an apprentice other than to honor the tradition Darth Bane had resurrected a millenium earlier."

 

Right here it shows that currently Sidious fears Vader. That he's a threat to his mastery of the dark side. Just prior the book was talking about Sidious views on the rule of two and how he remembered when he killed his master. Vader is a threat to him. He's THAT powerful but Sidious feels in the future. He won't be. He'll become so powerful that there wouldn't be a need for another apprentice. That time hasn't come yet. First it states he's becoming more powerful now that he's finally tapping deep into the dark side and then it states in the future he won't need to fear him.

 

 

"Time and again the two Jedi attempted to alter their style, but Vader had an answer for every lunge, parry and riposte. His style borrowed elements from all techniques of combat, even from the highest, most dangerous levels, and his moves were crisp and unpredictable. In addition, his remarkable foresight allowed him to anticipate the Jedi strategies and maneuvers, his blade always one step ahead of theirs, notwithstanding the two-handed grip he employed."

 

"She felt as if she were fighting a droid, although a droid programmed to counter all her best stratagems."

 

"Calling on the Force, Starstone fell on him in a fury, striking wildly and repeatedly, and with anger. Moments into her attack she understood that Vader was merely allowing her to vent, as the Temple's swordmaster had often done with his students, allowing them to believe that they were driving him back, when in fact he was simply encouraging them to wear themselves out before disarming them in one rapid motion."

"He flicked his blade, precisely, economically, forcing her back and back..."

 

page 278.

 

Page 277

 

Forte and Kulka were skilled duelists, but Vader was not only faster than Starstone remembered him being on Murkhana against Master Chatak, but also more agile. He employed his awesome power to put a quick end to the fancy twirling of his opponents, who fell back against the hammering blows of Vader's bloodshine blade."

 

This was against, admittedly, two skilled duelists. He was also facing Starstone, Kulka, Forte, Jambe, Nam, and Klossi. None of them could match him. Against Roan Shryne, he slashed at his legs at one point and Vader leapt over his blow, twisted in the air, and landed behind him.

 

From force unleashed..

 

The apprentice crouched facedown in the snow, surrounded by rubble. His breath came in agonized, short gasps, but he was grateful for each one. He should be dead. That blow should have killed anyone. The fact that he was breathing testified to the one mistake his Master had done.

He had been rebuilt tougher than before.

 

Vader casually tossed him toward the icy cliff.

 

He though he was ready -and so the sheer severity of the opening blow took him by surprise.

A simple double stroke, up then down, it contained enough power to jar his wrist and shoulders and very nearly disarm him completely. The collision of their lightsabers was blinding. He staggered backward and found himself at the center of a Telekinetic storm. His Master seized on his momentary weakness and hurled missiles at him from all sides...

 

Darth Vader fought brilliantly, never employing anything less than a killing stroke. His intention was lethal. All he needed was one slip, one tiny gap in his opponent's defenses.

The apprentice vowed not to give him one...

 

The apprentice fell back under the rain of blows. The sizzling of fabric and a faint stink of burning skin told him that at least two of Darth Vader's misses had been horribly near...

 

Reaching out with his left hand, he blasted his Master with Sith Lightning. That broke the momentum of the furious onslaught, enabling him to stand and catch his breath. [...] The Dark Lord was instantly on his feet...

 

He beat back the telekinetic attack with one of his own, shoving his Master in the chest with the Force of a small explosion, throwing Darth Vader backward across the room.

For all his size and occasional clumsiness, the Dark Lord was sure on his feet. He landed upright and launched himself back into the fray.

 

Note that the apprentice had defeated multiple Jedi masters himself, was a power house in the force, and was extremely agile. If you want more sources. Go ahead. But it's obvious. Vader was by far one of the most powerful Sith. Even in his suit. Even Sidious regarded him as a threat.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Rhyltran

[BrandonSM]

Now, I wonder where people would put Plageuis.

 

 

Honestly, I think he deserves to be on the top ten. Not sure, I also haven't finished the book. And I haven't seen him do many spectacular feats except that he..

 

 

 

He can see the amount of Midi-Chlorians in people. I think thats a pretty cool power since The Jedi have to take blood tests.

 

[daswookie]

I would probably put Master Thon and Anakin Solo towards the top of the Jedi List. And Grand Lord Vol somewhere on the sith list.

[JarredBane]

excerpt from wookiepedia - Darth Maul was a male Dathomirian Zabrak Dark Lord of the Sith who lived during the waning years of the Galactic Republic. Originally a Dathomiri Nightbrother born on Iridonia and known only as Maul, he was given, as an infant, by his Nightsister mother to Darth Sidious, who trained him in the ways of the dark side of the Force as his secret apprentice. Maul became a master of Juyo, Jar'Kai, and Teräs Käsi, with training in Niman, and chose to wield a red-bladed saberstaff in combat. Though well trained in the ways of the Sith, Maul was technically a Sith Lord in violation of the Rule of Two because his own Master was at the time apprenticed to another, the Muun Sith Lord Darth Plagueis.

 

maul was trained by sidious, as wasnoted in both phantom menace and the shadow hunter book.

[Rhyltran]

excerpt from wookiepedia - Darth Maul was a male Dathomirian Zabrak Dark Lord of the Sith who lived during the waning years of the Galactic Republic. Originally a Dathomiri Nightbrother born on Iridonia and known only as Maul, he was given, as an infant, by his Nightsister mother to Darth Sidious, who trained him in the ways of the dark side of the Force as his secret apprentice. Maul became a master of Juyo, Jar'Kai, and Teräs Käsi, with training in Niman, and chose to wield a red-bladed saberstaff in combat. Though well trained in the ways of the Sith, Maul was technically a Sith Lord in violation of the Rule of Two because his own Master was at the time apprenticed to another, the Muun Sith Lord Darth Plagueis.

 

maul was trained by sidious, as wasnoted in both phantom menace and the shadow hunter book.

 

Yes but not as a true apprentice. Wookieepedia can be edited by anyone and isn't always 100% accurate.

[unicornfive]

For those who claim Vader is weak I give you this. An argument from another thread I posted to someone asking for a source of Vader's prowess. People misunderstand. I explain that Vader was powerful and they go "BUT HE LOST SO MUCH OF HIS POTENTIAL" he did but lost potential doesn't mean weakling. If he didn't lose his potential he would have potentially become the most powerful force sensitive in Star Wars history. Instead, he became 80% of Sidious (according to G Lucas.) which is still powerful but not as powerful as he could have been.

 

Being 80% of Sidious is still far stronger than 99% of the Dark Lords in the Star Wars universe.

 

 

"Now that Vader had begun to tap deeply into the power of the dark side, his true apprenticeship can begin."

 

"More important, by the time Vader was capable of becoming a risk to his mastery, Sidious would be fully conversant with the secrets Plagueis had spent a lifetime seeking - the power over life and death. There would be no need to fear Vader. No need to have an apprentice other than to honor the tradition Darth Bane had resurrected a millenium earlier."

 

Right here it shows that currently Sidious fears Vader. That he's a threat to his mastery of the dark side. Just prior the book was talking about Sidious views on the rule of two and how he remembered when he killed his master. Vader is a threat to him. He's THAT powerful but Sidious feels in the future. He won't be. He'll become so powerful that there wouldn't be a need for another apprentice. That time hasn't come yet. First it states he's becoming more powerful now that he's finally tapping deep into the dark side and then it states in the future he won't need to fear him.

 

 

"Time and again the two Jedi attempted to alter their style, but Vader had an answer for every lunge, parry and riposte. His style borrowed elements from all techniques of combat, even from the highest, most dangerous levels, and his moves were crisp and unpredictable. In addition, his remarkable foresight allowed him to anticipate the Jedi strategies and maneuvers, his blade always one step ahead of theirs, notwithstanding the two-handed grip he employed."

 

"She felt as if she were fighting a droid, although a droid programmed to counter all her best stratagems."

 

"Calling on the Force, Starstone fell on him in a fury, striking wildly and repeatedly, and with anger. Moments into her attack she understood that Vader was merely allowing her to vent, as the Temple's swordmaster had often done with his students, allowing them to believe that they were driving him back, when in fact he was simply encouraging them to wear themselves out before disarming them in one rapid motion."

"He flicked his blade, precisely, economically, forcing her back and back..."

 

page 278.

 

Page 277

 

Forte and Kulka were skilled duelists, but Vader was not only faster than Starstone remembered him being on Murkhana against Master Chatak, but also more agile. He employed his awesome power to put a quick end to the fancy twirling of his opponents, who fell back against the hammering blows of Vader's bloodshine blade."

 

This was against, admittedly, two skilled duelists. He was also facing Starstone, Kulka, Forte, Jambe, Nam, and Klossi. None of them could match him. Against Roan Shryne, he slashed at his legs at one point and Vader leapt over his blow, twisted in the air, and landed behind him.

 

From force unleashed..

 

The apprentice crouched facedown in the snow, surrounded by rubble. His breath came in agonized, short gasps, but he was grateful for each one. He should be dead. That blow should have killed anyone. The fact that he was breathing testified to the one mistake his Master had done.

He had been rebuilt tougher than before.

 

Vader casually tossed him toward the icy cliff.

 

He though he was ready -and so the sheer severity of the opening blow took him by surprise.

A simple double stroke, up then down, it contained enough power to jar his wrist and shoulders and very nearly disarm him completely. The collision of their lightsabers was blinding. He staggered backward and found himself at the center of a Telekinetic storm. His Master seized on his momentary weakness and hurled missiles at him from all sides...

 

Darth Vader fought brilliantly, never employing anything less than a killing stroke. His intention was lethal. All he needed was one slip, one tiny gap in his opponent's defenses.

The apprentice vowed not to give him one...

 

The apprentice fell back under the rain of blows. The sizzling of fabric and a faint stink of burning skin told him that at least two of Darth Vader's misses had been horribly near...

 

Reaching out with his left hand, he blasted his Master with Sith Lightning. That broke the momentum of the furious onslaught, enabling him to stand and catch his breath. [...] The Dark Lord was instantly on his feet...

 

He beat back the telekinetic attack with one of his own, shoving his Master in the chest with the Force of a small explosion, throwing Darth Vader backward across the room.

For all his size and occasional clumsiness, the Dark Lord was sure on his feet. He landed upright and launched himself back into the fray.

 

Note that the apprentice had defeated multiple Jedi masters himself, was a power house in the force, and was extremely agile. If you want more sources. Go ahead. But it's obvious. Vader was by far one of the most powerful Sith. Even in his suit. Even Sidious regarded him as a threat.

 

If Vader is that strong only as 80% of sidious, then what does it make Master Windu that beat Sidious? A god?

Vader is 80% of the WEAK Sidious of the movies. Darth Sidious became powerfull after his "death" in movies.

[BrandonSM]

excerpt from wookiepedia - Darth Maul was a male Dathomirian Zabrak Dark Lord of the Sith who lived during the waning years of the Galactic Republic. Originally a Dathomiri Nightbrother born on Iridonia and known only as Maul, he was given, as an infant, by his Nightsister mother to Darth Sidious, who trained him in the ways of the dark side of the Force as his secret apprentice. Maul became a master of Juyo, Jar'Kai, and Teräs Käsi, with training in Niman, and chose to wield a red-bladed saberstaff in combat. Though well trained in the ways of the Sith, Maul was technically a Sith Lord in violation of the Rule of Two because his own Master was at the time apprenticed to another, the Muun Sith Lord Darth Plagueis.

 

maul was trained by sidious, as wasnoted in both phantom menace and the shadow hunter book.

 

Darth Plageuis's, Darth Sidious's and, Darth Maul's Wookieepedia Page have been edited 5 times in the past 2 days. Its getting updated and revised similar to Revan's page when his book came out.

 

Which means those pages are unreliable for a while.

 

 

Maul was a tool.

 

 

Ventress knew she was a tool, which is kind of sad.

 

If any of you have read Dark Rendzevous she tries to convince Dooku to make her his apprentice and all fun stuff. He taught her but, he didn't consider her as an Apprentice. Make Sense?

[BrandonSM]

If Vader is that strong only as 80% of sidious, then what does it make Master Windu that beat Sidious? A god?

Vader is 80% of the WEAK Sidious of the movies. Darth Sidious became powerfull after his "death" in movies.

 

Windu vs Vader... hmm.

 

I give it too Windu. But my Fanboyism for Mace may be tkaing control of me.

 

Windu is the better DUelist. Thats absoloute.

 

But Vader might beat him with Force Powers, though I doubt it... Vader was the master of telekinsis(Sp?)

[Zeratho]

If Vader is that strong only as 80% of sidious, then what does it make Master Windu that beat Sidious? A god?

Vader is 80% of the WEAK Sidious of the movies. Darth Sidious became powerfull after his "death" in movies.

 

As far as I'm concerned, Windu didn't beat Palpatine because he was better, Windu beated Palpatine because Palpatine let him, so Anakin would see Palpatine in the good, weak light. (Palpatine was sensing that Anakin was coming)

 

As for Sidious after the movies, that is just full crap. Sure I know he lives in the books, but as far as I'm concerned, he died once and for all when Vader killed him. Reviving Sidious is just a big spitting on the face for Vader's sacrifice. I think that story of Star Wars ends for good on Return of the Jedi, and every book after that is non-canon (even if they are supposed to be canon).

[BrandonSM]

If Vader is that strong only as 80% of sidious, then what does it make Master Windu that beat Sidious? A god?

Vader is 80% of the WEAK Sidious of the movies. Darth Sidious became powerfull after his "death" in movies.

 

Windu won the duel then Sidious bent his lightsaber.

[BrandonSM]

As far as I'm concerned, Windu didn't beat Palpatine because he was better, Windu beated Palpatine because Palpatine let him, so Anakin would see Palpatine in the good, weak light. (Palpatine was sensing that Anakin was coming)

 

As for Sidious after the movies, that is just full crap. Sure I know he lives in the books, but as far as I'm concerned, he died once and for all when Vader killed him. Reviving Sidious is just a big spitting on the face for Vader's sacrifice. I think that story of Star Wars ends for good on Return of the Jedi, and every book after that is non-canon (even if they are supposed to be canon).

 

Then well, not much of us will take you seriously in these type of Debates.