Reeny Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Operatives really need to be toned down. Their opening stun and damage followed by subsequent CCs, Vanish and Heal are just too much. I'm at 500 Expertise, Medium armor and an Operative can just take my health down 70% before I get out of the stun(assuming stun break ability is on cooldown). The fact that they can sneak up and do such massive damage is just ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BegaTasty Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Read what he wrote. Full pVp gear operatives are ridiculous on anyone not in full PvP gear. Not to say this particular Operative was not a complete A-hole. hes doing exactly what they are designed to do. Why were you rushing out without help, why were you not working with team ? I know... because you were rambo'ing it ... as usual in BG farming. This crusade you people are on, is so silly. Your hoping that posting post after post after post, an making each consecutive one more dramatic than the last will force bioware to give you what you want. Then you will move onto next class.... Beats me why you are on a pvp server in first place. You will notice a common thread to these complaints, its all done in BG farming. World pvp this doesn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezerian Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 hes doing exactly what they are designed to do. Why were you rushing out without help, why were you not working with team ? I know... because you were rambo'ing it ... as usual in BG farming. This crusade you people are on, is so silly. Your hoping that posting post after post after post, an making each consecutive one more dramatic than the last will force bioware to give you what you want. Then you will move onto next class.... Beats me why you are on a pvp server in first place. You will notice a common thread to these complaints, its all done in BG farming. World pvp this doesn't happen. I was being spawn camped... how is that possibly ramboing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knifewrench Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) if the two you are takling about are a battlemaster powertech with a battlemaster merc healer who is guarded then...um no. even in equal gear popping consumables you arent giong to break open that powertech or that merc I've had this situation, myself, going up against that set. Any time defensive CDs or whitebar happens it's a lot of chain interrupting. If they're not whitebarred it's possible to just CC lock them out of their defensive shield while beating on the other. A tank+medic is supposed to be synergetically devastating but they're totally killable if played against correctly. And operative is not powerless against that unless they're really bad. Edited January 16, 2012 by Knifewrench Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalT Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 If they would just remove the stun from that knife spam crap that they do I think it would be fine. As a consular in almost full champion gear I get taken down to about 25% before I can even do anything from knife spamming operatives. Its the most broken thing I have seen in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossos Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Operatives really need to be toned down. Their opening stun and damage followed by subsequent CCs, Vanish and Heal are just too much. I'm at 500 Expertise, Medium armor and an Operative can just take my health down 70% before I get out of the stun(assuming stun break ability is on cooldown). The fact that they can sneak up and do such massive damage is just ridiculous. Okay... Lets say the damage is nerfed so that they take off...15% of your HP. The rest of the damage they do is meh at best. Ops/Scoundrels have NO gap closers. We can slow you, but most can knock us back, knock back+root, root, sprint, leap away, stun, etc. We have 1 damage mitigation skill that basically makes us invulnerable for 3 sec. I guess that's good for a heal. Take a look at all those leet Ops PvP videos. Notice that most Operatives are ignored while out in the open. Ask an Operative you know how fast they are blasted down once they are "focused" on. We have a hard hit that requires positioning and stealth. We can't close gaps, and most of the 4 hit deaths people have experienced are at the hands of Champions and above, with stacking biochem against targets a that are typically sub-50. So...after that hard opener is nerfed. What to do with the class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossos Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I've had this situation, myself, going up against that set. Any time defensive CDs or whitebar happens it's a lot of chain interrupting. If they're not whitebarred it's possible to just CC lock them out of their defensive shield while beating on the other. A tank+medic is supposed to be synergetically devastating but just like our operative friend, they're still very well killable if played against correctly. Your scenario assumes that the other players have no CC breaker and no CC themselves. i.e. you end up vanishing or dying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverspar Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Okay... Lets say the damage is nerfed so that they take off...15% of your HP. The rest of the damage they do is meh at best. Ops/Scoundrels have NO gap closers. We can slow you, but most can knock us back, knock back+root, root, sprint, leap away, stun, etc. We have 1 damage mitigation skill that basically makes us invulnerable for 3 sec. I guess that's good for a heal. Take a look at all those leet Ops PvP videos. Notice that most Operatives are ignored while out in the open. Ask an Operative you know how fast they are blasted down once they are "focused" on. We have a hard hit that requires positioning and stealth. We can't close gaps, and most of the 4 hit deaths people have experienced are at the hands of Champions and above, with stacking biochem against targets a that are typically sub-50. So...after that hard opener is nerfed. What to do with the class? Your logic is full of holes considering everyone's damage is meh outside of one ability on a long CD or requiring a successive chain to even get effectiveness out of it. Next excuse. Edited January 16, 2012 by Silverspar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BegaTasty Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Okay... Lets say the damage is nerfed so that they take off...15% of your HP. The rest of the damage they do is meh at best. Ops/Scoundrels have NO gap closers. We can slow you, but most can knock us back, knock back+root, root, sprint, leap away, stun, etc. We have 1 damage mitigation skill that basically makes us invulnerable for 3 sec. I guess that's good for a heal. Take a look at all those leet Ops PvP videos. Notice that most Operatives are ignored while out in the open. Ask an Operative you know how fast they are blasted down once they are "focused" on. We have a hard hit that requires positioning and stealth. We can't close gaps, and most of the 4 hit deaths people have experienced are at the hands of Champions and above, with stacking biochem against targets a that are typically sub-50. So...after that hard opener is nerfed. What to do with the class? They dont care about that mate, they can only see the fact that someone kills them in a battleground, so it isn't their fault. They ignore the facts when you tell them how to protect themselves, an all they know is the "we want nerfs" mantra. "Silverspar showed exactly how they think"..... Good post by the way mate first logical an mature one I have seen here int his rubbish. Edited January 16, 2012 by BegaTasty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campaigner Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Least played classes in the game are clearly OP. (lol) Edited January 16, 2012 by Campaigner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbocat Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 The knockdown on Operatives lasts too long not to mention there are many who are abusing certain exploits and continuous delivering a high damage attack in a short amount of time. I know there are quite a few who will deny the possibility of that happening, but considering the fact how "great" BioWare has already proven at their PvP balancing act, it's funny these people will actually go out to defend this. Ofcourse ppl defend thir class when ppl like you and other come up with random numbers crit from a OP. Ofcourse a full geared oprative will kill a low lvl without gear in a knockdown, they are a burst class, and the knock down last 3 sec, and 1 GCD is 1.5 sec, that will say just 2 attacks before you are up on your feet again. A oprative cant kill a equal geared player in a knockdown. And you know why they critted for over 5k, BECAUSE of BIOCHEM. stacking adrenal/stims etc. That will be nerfed tonight. So just stop your stupid QQ now, think ppl are realy gettin tired of it. Cant even post a good thread on PvP forums, because of all nerf this nerf that spam all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Actually I'm 50 with half pvp gear, couldn't get out of spawn in huttball. And yet you haven't found the alternate exit from spawn. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossos Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Your logic is full of holes considering everyone's damage is meh outside of one ability on a long CD. Next excuse. Everyone has a position ANDa state (stealth) requirement attached to the ONE hard hitting ability they have? Umm...no. I see where your head is at, but try again. How about things like reactive shields, reactive heals, damage mitigating buffs that apply to state changes such as cover, or mid-combat selectable stances (Jedi/sith)? How about bubbles that full on mitigate all damage, not just kinetic (JC/SI)? Again, what about gap closers, or gap openers, knockback with root mechanics, etc.? Try again. BTW, what class do you play? Are you an SI/JC and upset about it? Possibly not spec Madness/Balance? Edited January 16, 2012 by Ossos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negativenergy Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 This has been a pretty good read so far, but yah we should take away the only decent thing from a class. Lets replace their opening move with a double fisted reach around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rediwill Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 It doesn't even matter if you have battlemaster gear...if you get opened up on by a operative from stealth you will be dead. Even the Operatives know it isnt fair. Same thing happened in WOW with Rogues and they put in some fixes. The problem is that the stealth itself is broken in my mind. Higher pvp gear should allow you to see them sooner and they should not be perm stealth. Also, they should have a serious health nerf and damage nerf and some cooldown tweaking. The armor pen should have a cap that is not 100% pen from what I hear. The combat stealth is way op skill and if they havea DOT on them it shouldn't even work at all. I have had 2 DOTs on a person and they run very far away before the stealth breaks. That is just a broken system. Then again all of the Imperial classes at this point are better then their mirrored Republic classes. Way to much proof of this fact on the forums. All you can do is...Run premades and or just live with dying and losing alot more on the Republc side until BW can get their heads out of their butts. The brackets will help a little bit for you non-50s but the 50s will still get 1-2 shotted by Operatives. However, I do not think that you continually running out of your huttball spawn is a problem. If you do that and die that is on you. Wait for another person and go in pairs if you got a Operative camping. Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcyrus Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) The OP does have a point. As of right now the only defense against Operatives/Scoundrels is your 2minute CC escape ability, which let's be fair... even if you use it, you're still going to be down 1/3 to 1/2 your HP due to the initial damage you'll take. When discussing PvP, BioWare has said all throughout the game's development that they do not want stunlock mechanics in the game. They don't want players to be able to be killed with no chance of fighting back, yet that is precisely the case if your CC escape is on cooldown. No class should get an automatic "I Win" capability that can only be countered once every 2 minutes. Edited January 16, 2012 by jcyrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardya Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Ask an Operative you know how fast they are blasted down once they are "focused" on. ? Is there a class in any game that can survive being focused on? That is your balancing factor to the opener? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossos Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 ? Is there a class in any game that can survive being focused on? That is your balancing factor to the opener? Oh, I'm sorry. Should I revise it to "being caught in the open by any other class, unstealthed". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardya Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Oh, I'm sorry. Should I revise it to "being caught in the open by any other class, unstealthed". L2P I imagine if I was in PvP for the first time and this was happening. Seriously, this is not healthy for the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossos Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 L2P I imagine if I was in PvP for the first time and this was happening. Seriously, this is not healthy for the game. LOL too true. How about they (BW) nerf Scoundrels and Operatives to the point that they are no longer functional. Actually, I really hope that's what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverspar Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Ofcourse ppl defend thir class when ppl like you and other come up with random numbers crit from a OP. Ofcourse a full geared oprative will kill a low lvl without gear in a knockdown, they are a burst class, and the knock down last 3 sec, and 1 GCD is 1.5 sec, that will say just 2 attacks before you are up on your feet again. A oprative cant kill a equal geared player in a knockdown. And you know why they critted for over 5k, BECAUSE of BIOCHEM. stacking adrenal/stims etc. That will be nerfed tonight. So just stop your stupid QQ now, think ppl are realy gettin tired of it. Cant even post a good thread on PvP forums, because of all nerf this nerf that spam all the time. Keep making excuses. None of it's random. But, if it makes you feel better to keep denying the truth of the matter, go ahead. I've been hit, personally for 8k twice in a row, which was a two shot on me, in my gear. So don't make up some conn story of how it ain't happening because you know it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turn-XGundam Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Actually, sages and sorcs would be the runner up for most overpowered class after operative. honestly i would say every other class except OP/Scoundrel is balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathid Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 The OP does have a point. As of right now the only defense against Operatives/Scoundrels is your 2minute CC escape ability, which let's be fair... even if you use it, you're still going to be down 1/3 to 1/2 your HP due to the initial damage you'll take. When discussing PvP, BioWare has said all throughout the game's development that they do not want stunlock mechanics in the game. They don't want players to be able to be killed with no chance of fighting back, yet that is precisely the case if your CC escape is on cooldown. No class should get an automatic "I Win" capability that can only be countered once every 2 minutes. Ive seen and had sorcs/inquis do that to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rediwill Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I will agree that the other classes are not as badly OP but there is some serious mechanics that are not the same for the other classes. Most of it is related to CDs and when the damage is applied and or if you can be moving or not moving when you do your skill. I am sure BW can fix it if they just play some warzones for themselves. It isn't that hard to fix most of the issues. I do agree that no class should be nerfed to the point it is not playable. Ops and Scoundrels have their uses but to go around 1-2 shotting people non stop in a match is not it. Remember folks the game s still young and the Beta didn't test this because BW failed to give people the higher level gear and thats for the 1-2 WZs you could play. If this is still in place in 3 months then people will start to leave or everyone will just roll IA and Scounds. Nothing new....it is just a bit strange that there is no Republic class tha is better than a Imperial class....that is what is causing a lot of the rage....almost like it was inteneded....in some minds by BW. Stun locking system is broken...Resolve is a joke......not much mroe to say... Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyrdstar Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I think it's just that people that play busted face roll stealth classes in all mmo's are just genetically superior beings that are all drawn to those classes via a hive mind phenomena. We must all face facts /L2P and bow down to them. /sarcasm off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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