Cyfex Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Stop with the L2P ****, you're not helping anyone and quite frankly you sound like an arrogant ***** when you say that. I'm level 50 in ALL battlemaster gear and I get screwed in under 7 seconds by Operatives. Trust me, I know how to play, that's not the issue. The issue is with CD's and activation timers, or lack thereof on the Operative class. I've got a level 36 Operative I use as a healer so, again, I know what I'm talking about, not just saying things that I read. Screenshot of full bm gear plz. And to your l36 op healer thingie: I drive a Hyundai i10, so by the force of extrapolation I hereby claim to be a respectable source in the field of formula uno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtydurst Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Could you elaborate? If you have two stealth classes, one gets the opener, and the other doesn't have CD's, then how are you supposed to turn that fight around with any significant HP disadvantage? Let me inform you on some of the differences in our classes. My class doesn't have an opener which takes 30-40% of the average player's HP. The shadow's "opener" is a 2 sec knockdown that does 400-500 damage. Your class on the other has an opener which does 2-3K non-crit damage, puts a dot for 1.5K damage on the target (over 6 seconds), gives you 50% armor pen for 15 seconds, and knocks the target down for 3 seconds. If you think back to WoW, this opener is essentially cheap shot, ambush, and garrote all in one (minus the silence). So really what I'm saying is that if your opener left people at 70% HP instead of 30% HP, and the damage was moved over to other abilities that take longer to put out, it wouldn't be so easy mode. This class SHOULD do a lot of damage, but making shootfirst/hidden strike this powerful is making the class easy mode. Scale the damage on the opener back a ton, reduce the stun duration to 2 seconds, and make backstab/shiv hit harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoodwinkd Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 i dont know if this was mentioned, mostly because i dont have the time or attention to read all the posts, but the point someone made about rouges in wow being the same way in vanilla, i want to point out that after all the nerfs and qqing about how opd they were, they became (generally) the most underpowered and useless class in wow and blizz has been trying to balance them ever since (and yes i had a rouge when i played wow). now i dont have an operative and have never done any pvp or duelling (as of yet), but is this discussion really becuase operatives are opd, because the original poster was to predictable and kept running past him even though he knew he was being camped or a mix of the 2? i also want to point out the the original poster even admitted that he wasnt full pvp geared, if (and im presuming he was) the operative was fully (or almost) pvp geared and buffed/stimmed then yea hes going to be opd. my question then would be if you got an operative and another class (doesnt matter which) duelling with equal gear/buffs/stims, then what would the outcome be? (like i said dont have an operative and have never duelled one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtydurst Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 i dont know if this was mentioned, mostly because i dont have the time or attention to read all the posts, but the point someone made about rouges in wow being the same way in vanilla, i want to point out that after all the nerfs and qqing about how opd they were, they became (generally) the most underpowered and useless class in wow and blizz has been trying to balance them ever since (and yes i had a rouge when i played wow). now i dont have an operative and have never done any pvp or duelling (as of yet), but is this discussion really becuase operatives are opd, because the original poster was to predictable and kept running past him even though he knew he was being camped or a mix of the 2? i also want to point out the the original poster even admitted that he wasnt full pvp geared, if (and im presuming he was) the operative was fully (or almost) pvp geared and buffed/stimmed then yea hes going to be opd. my question then would be if you got an operative and another class (doesnt matter which) duelling with equal gear/buffs/stims, then what would the outcome be? (like i said dont have an operative and have never duelled one). Why would you post an opinion or presumption about this topic if you haven't PvP'd or dueled at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-COBRA- Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 acid blade will be nerfed into **** very soon, read on twitter. Hidden strike dmg gonna also drop a bit but the 50% armor debuff will be lowered alot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtydurst Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 acid blade will be nerfed into **** very soon, read on twitter. Hidden strike dmg gonna also drop a bit but the 50% armor debuff will be lowered alot can you provide a link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desgarden Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Let me inform you on some of the differences in our classes. My class doesn't have an opener which takes 30-40% of the average player's HP. The shadow's "opener" is a 2 sec knockdown that does 400-500 damage. Your class on the other has an opener which does 2-3K non-crit damage, puts a dot for 1.5K damage on the target (over 6 seconds), gives you 50% armor pen for 15 seconds, and knocks the target down for 3 seconds. If you think back to WoW, this opener is essentially cheap shot, ambush, and garrote all in one (minus the silence). So really what I'm saying is that if your opener left people at 70% HP instead of 30% HP, and the damage was moved over to other abilities that take longer to put out, it wouldn't be so easy mode. This class SHOULD do a lot of damage, but making shootfirst/hidden strike this powerful is making the class easy mode. Scale the damage on the opener back a ton, reduce the stun duration to 2 seconds, and make backstab/shiv hit harder. Don't you give them any ideas!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Let me inform you on some of the differences in our classes. My class doesn't have an opener which takes 30-40% of the average player's HP. The shadow's "opener" is a 2 sec knockdown that does 400-500 damage. Your class on the other has an opener which does 2-3K non-crit damage, puts a dot for 1.5K damage on the target (over 6 seconds), gives you 50% armor pen for 15 seconds, and knocks the target down for 3 seconds. If you think back to WoW, this opener is essentially cheap shot, ambush, and garrote all in one (minus the silence). So really what I'm saying is that if your opener left people at 70% HP instead of 30% HP, and the damage was moved over to other abilities that take longer to put out, it wouldn't be so easy mode. This class SHOULD do a lot of damage, but making shootfirst/hidden strike this powerful is making the class easy mode. Scale the damage on the opener back a ton, reduce the stun duration to 2 seconds, and make backstab/shiv hit harder. None of this contradicts my point that if everything else is equal, and: you are a stealth class he is a stealth class he gets the opener on you you don't have any CDs to either break CC or vanish you are going to die I'm a scoundrel and I've proposed basically the same changes that you just did--it won't change the fact that you're going to die given the scenario above. You're not talking about all classes going toe to toe at 100% vs 70%... you're talking about stealth classes, one got the opener, the other has no CDs. That's a disadvantage you cannot and should not come back from. On a side note, do you know what should happen if you get to open on a scoundrel? You should force him to vanish, and you just so happen to have one of the few instant cast aoe's on short cooldown that you can use to unstealth him right after he does, even with his aoe immunity up. With your vanish up, you should be able to escape him. With his vanish up, he should not be able to escape you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtydurst Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 None of this contradicts my point that if everything else is equal, and: you are a stealth class he is a stealth class he gets the opener on you you don't have any CDs to either break CC or vanish you are going to die I'm a scoundrel and I've proposed basically the same changes that you just did--it won't change the fact that you're going to die given the scenario above. You're not talking about all classes going toe to toe at 100% vs 70%... you're talking about stealth classes, one got the opener, the other has no CDs. That's a disadvantage you cannot and should not come back from. On a side note, do you know what should happen if you get to open on a scoundrel? You should force him to vanish, and you just so happen to have one of the few instant cast aoe's on short cooldown that you can use to unstealth him right after he does, even with his aoe immunity up. With your vanish up, you should be able to escape him. With his vanish up, he should not be able to escape you. The point of me showing you the differences between our openers is that if I get the opener on an operative/scoundrel and he doesn't have a CC break it isn't GG. If he gets it on me w/o a CC break it is GG. Shadow opener is weak, Operative's is overpowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtydurst Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The point of me showing you the differences between our openers is that if I get the opener on an operative/scoundrel and he doesn't have a CC break it isn't GG. If he gets it on me w/o a CC break it is GG. Shadow opener is weak, Operative's is overpowered. To clarify on this: In my opener I get to knock you down for 2 seconds, do 500 damage, and do one CV strike (which can hit for 1.5K on a crit). Man, devastating and difficult to come back from I know! It's not like you can vanish and hit me for 4K, apply a dot for 2K, gain 50% armor pen, and knock me down for 3 seconds (all with one global). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The point of me showing you the differences between our openers is that if I get the opener on an operative/scoundrel and he doesn't have a CC break it isn't GG. If he gets it on me w/o a CC break it is GG. Shadow opener is weak, Operative's is overpowered. If you open on him then it should be GG, even though it takes longer than vice vera. Your little opener/2 GCDs worth of damage, and robbing him of his opener should be enough to win. Like I said regarding aoe/vanish, you should actually be able to kill him even with his vanish ready, while he should not be able to kill you with your vanish ready. I guess none of this really counters your point that the shadow opener is weak, and that operative's is overpowered. I was just harping on your odd stealth vs stealth example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabbb Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 well geared PT here to say. Yeaaah, nerf Operatives. I managed to piss off an operative who decided just like the OP to camp me at spawn and camp me he did. There is simply no response to their burst/stun combo. It goes like this 6K knockdown stun, trinket, 3k hit + 500 from dot, I shield or stun him, if i stun him he trinks, if I shield he stuns me again, 3k + 500, 3k + 500, oh good I'm out of stuns let's see how much hp do I have left, 15% of my life? Oh bother. The fact is Operatives do too much dmg and stun you twice to the point where when you finally get out of it your hp is too low to win, I can't do 16k dmg before he does another 4k. They are broken. Yes I can randomly stealth scan 2 inches of field 10 of every 20 seconds. Yes I know what I'm doing, I have good gear, I'm 50, I pvped in Wow for years, I have everything bound I know what moves to use when, there is no counter to an operative, sorry I'm not a sorc (the second most OP class) who can sport a bubble at the start and knock back. As it stands its it's not rock paper scissors, Operative is the rock, Sorc is the paper, everyone else is scissors (vs the Operative) it isn't balanced. Nerf them! RABBLE RABBLE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Waiting for a dev response on these classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 As it stands its it's not rock paper scissors, Operative is the rock, Sorc is the paper, everyone else is scissors (vs the Operative) it isn't balanced. Nerf them! RABBLE RABBLE See my sig. There's really no way for tanks to hunt stealthers... They can just sit at a node and randomly use a skill that might prevent them from getting opened on. Not really different from stealth in other wow-clones, but a trend that shouldn't be carried forward, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toothsome Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 enough said.. so tired of these posts../ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akiwi Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Tracer missile, tracer missile, tracer missile, and sometime it might require another TRACER MISSILE = Dead from range. As you might be able to tell seeing as I'm not bagging the Operative/Scoundrel out, that yes I play a 50 Operative.... Do I think they are OP, hmmmm, to some extent I guess. I'd be happy if they removed the 2 point talent tree ability to knock people down on a hiddenstrike from stealth so people would stop crying about it. I can go all crazy captain insano on a Commando and give him everything I got and he will just get up, laugh, and proceed to decimate me. And if he happens to be healing spec well thats even worse lol. I actually had a healing Trooper the other day /laugh emote at me because I was trying to kill him uninterrupted for a little over 2 mins in a Civil War WZ. After a Operatives burst they ain't exactly anything to write home about Shiv > Laceration........ Shiv > Laceration...... Shiv > Laceration..... Debilitate > Acid Blade/Backstab or maybe if your lucky enough to be up against a keyboard turner or back peddler you can get in a backstab or 2 without Deb. Wait what I cant remember what the topic of the post was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtydurst Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 enough said.. so tired of these posts../ If people say nothing this easymode, gimmick, one trick pony class would move forward as is. The reason there's so many posts and threads about the operative/scoundrel is because there are REAL problems from a design standpoint, as well as a balance standpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedImage Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 lol @folks defending the op/scoundrels. My friend has a 50 scoundrel and regularly is rotfl while facerolling people in pvp. He tells me almost daily how he cant believe they havent nerfed his class yet. He is also leveling an operative so he can do the same thing on the empire side. He consistantly wins 1v1 and 1v2 matches, fairs extremely well in 1v3's, and often manages kill+escape in ridiculous situations my SI assassin would never even think about going into solo. He does it all without much risk and freely admits its a faceroll class in pvp. He claims he never lost a 1v1? What a joke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akiwi Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 lol @folks defending the op/scoundrels. My friend has a 50 scoundrel and regularly is rotfl while facerolling people in pvp. He tells me almost daily how he cant believe they havent nerfed his class yet. He is also leveling an operative so he can do the same thing on the empire side. He consistantly wins 1v1 and 1v2 matches, fairs extremely well in 1v3's, and often manages kill+escape in ridiculous situations my SI assassin would never even think about going into solo. He does it all without much risk and freely admits its a faceroll class in pvp. He claims he never lost a 1v1? What a joke! I once ate a goldfish. True story! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedImage Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I once ate a goldfish. True story! So did I. At a college campus party. Thanks for stopping troll. Go back to your op/scound while you can. If my friend tells me/shows me how faceroll they are.....I'm inclined to buy into it. Since he has showed me and there infinite videos on youtube showing how o.p. it is now....I kind of have no choice but to believe it at this point. Now move along troll. lol you trolls defending your precious easy-mode class are hilarious. (Fight to the death! All 5 seconds of it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mursie Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Ops really aren't that overpowered. my level 16 operative only kills lvl 50's in warzones at about a 60% success rate. Considering I have no opener, no laceration, and currently no points in the ability to increase stealth (thus i run at 85% speed in stealth) i find this success rate "adequate". But honestly, if a class were truly overpowered... wouldn't you expect it to faceroll 50's at nearly a 100% clip right out of the gate? I can kill lvl 50's.. but it takes work and expertise stim stacking to successfully achieve. This isn't just, i plant face on keyboard and 50's melt, type of deal. At my current level... i use every trick i currently have available... and it is a real chore. so seriously.. stop with the QQ already.. it's getting old! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedImage Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Ops really aren't that overpowered. my level 16 operative only kills lvl 50's in warzones at about a 60% success rate. Considering I have no opener, no laceration, and currently no points in the ability to increase stealth (thus i run at 85% speed in stealth) i find this success rate "adequate". OMG....maybe you should read that out loud to yourself a couple times? LOL! Edited January 17, 2012 by WickedImage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamataKahn Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm sure you dont know what you're talking about. Really, the lot of you. If you get plowed by an Operative, you deserve it. Break the CC, bust a shield/sprint/knockback/whateva, and begin kiting them to death. There are so many of you that...LOL..are really bad at PvP. You just aren't getting it are you? OPs kill so fast you don't have time to do any of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamataKahn Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I can go all crazy captain insano on a Commando and give him everything I got and he will just get up, laugh, and proceed to decimate me. I'm a commando level 50 with pvp gear, purples, and blues and an OP killed me before I even got back up just last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_aug Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 You just aren't getting it are you? OPs kill so fast you don't have time to do any of that. See my previous post a few pages back for a video tutorial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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