Dungeon Finder Needed Badly.

[columbus]

For the record, I believe that if a Dungeon Finder is implemented it should include Heroic Areas (+2 and +4) as well as Flashpoints

[Andurial]

Try playing on the republic.

 

Not only are low level flashpoints hard to find, but it's NEARLY impossible to find a group for HM. I've done only 2 HM in the last month yet I'm constantly looking for groups.

 

Even for heroics on the higher level planets, it hard to find people who want to go. The really stupid part though once you for a group with one other person and begin to type "LFM" then it's more likely that people who want to do heroics come out of the wood works.

[Raximillian]

We do need some party making tools. We do not need ones like WoW, but we certainly need something. Some list, or somewhere we can see all the people and groups forming for X dungeon. And that it works from anywhere in the game.

 

So I agree we need something, just not something like WoW has (insta-group, insta-port, x-server, all that is not really needed).

[Umbral]

... or an extreme minority who is very vocal get's a tool that 90% of the community don't want and that will ruin the game for the big mass of people.

Sooo we have 4 or 5 iterations of this thread virtually filled with people asking for a cross-server LFG tool, and countless other threads started by players asking for the same thing, but closed because this thread existed, and you're trying to pretend there's 90% that don't want the tool? Have you ever sat in Fleet on a non-RP server and read the chats about there being no proper LFG tool?

 

90%? lolololol

 

Try maybe, and that's a big MAYBE, a 5% very vocal minority that doesn't want a cross-server LFG tool.

 

 

It's actually amazing BW has picked up on the truth that of that 5%, most play on the same kind of "specialty" servers ......

Edited January 27, 2012 by Umbral

[Nepumuk]

For the record, I believe that if a Dungeon Finder is implemented it should include Heroic Areas (+2 and +4) as well as Flashpoints

 

The dev post which stated an improvement of the LFG system is currently in the design phase made it clear their intention is to support all types of groups, not just flashpoints.

 

One suggestion I haven't seen mentioned yet is something Guild Wars and a few WoW addons did: Scan the chat channels and pick up any well enough formatted LFG/LFM messages and make them visible in the LFG system as well. So you wouldn't have to sit there and scan the channels manually when it gets busy.

 

I hope we get an update soon so the players disappointed by the current state of LFG can start to enjoy getting to the group content more.

[Sendrel]

We do need some party making tools. We do not need ones like WoW, but we certainly need something. Some list, or somewhere we can see all the people and groups forming for X dungeon. And that it works from anywhere in the game.

 

So I agree we need something, just not something like WoW has (insta-group, insta-port, x-server, all that is not really needed).

 

Its been said before, but one of the Rift devs (that also worked on EQ2) stated publicly that list style group finders don't work. Apparently, they sunk a ton of time and resources into a system that the players wouldn't use. He said, basically, that people want to group in his experience, but they don't want to be the guy starting the group and that anything other than an auto-grouping function probably would be a waste of resources. The same thing can be said for WoW's experiments in group finder tools. They had a similar group finder and when given the choice between that and the trade channel, players chose trade chat.

 

WoW's system evolved to what it did because that's what players would use. Distinctions like 'not good for the community' and so forth are so subjective as to be completely meaningless when trying to balance against the rest of the equation.

 

I personally don't see the issue with auto-grouping and porting tools in this game (or any other for that matter). The instances are all in the same place, running there for the thousandth time doesn't increase immersion.

[Raximillian]

Its been said before, but one of the Rift devs (that also worked on EQ2) stated publicly that list style group finders don't work. Apparently, they sunk a ton of time and resources into a system that the players wouldn't use. He said, basically, that people want to group in his experience, but they don't want to be the guy starting the group and that anything other than an auto-grouping function probably would be a waste of resources. The same thing can be said for WoW's experiments in group finder tools. They had a similar group finder and when given the choice between that and the trade channel, players chose trade chat.

 

WoW's system evolved to what it did because that's what players would use. Distinctions like 'not good for the community' and so forth are so subjective as to be completely meaningless when trying to balance against the rest of the equation.

 

I personally don't see the issue with auto-grouping and porting tools in this game (or any other for that matter). The instances are all in the same place, running there for the thousandth time doesn't increase immersion.

 

That's interesting insight into how people group, and probably very true. I personally do not like to form groups either, but I have no problem joining one, or taking the lead if needed.

 

Let's see how it goes then. Whichever way it goes we definitely need something... Chat spam is not really very "social" either...

[zerobounds]

It seems like a system that does this would be fairly easy to implement. I don't really know what has been done in other games..

 

Just make a menu that lets you pick:

 

1) Create group/Seek group

2) Choose from a collapsible list (similar to quest list) that contains all of the unlocked flashpoints/ops you have and a list of all of your active quests. You pick one.

3) Choose a type filter of your class - Tank, DPS, Heal, Any.

4) Click ok.

 

The group creator defaults to Any, so anybody is grouped if there are people LFG on the same quest/op/fp. If he wants something specific he can adjust the filter to Tank/DPS/Heal and get a more specific player.

 

Seems like this would be simple enough to do.

Edited January 27, 2012 by zerobounds

[Touchbass]

Seriously, explain to everyone how the hell a tool that 90% of the players don't want can be so widely used in WoW and Rift? How could it have significantly decreased the time needed to form a group.

 

How the hell does it manage to work?

 

Yeah, this guy has no argument so he takes to make up things and refute sound logic statements with his "expert" opinion. Yikes.

[Touchbass]

Its been said before, but one of the Rift devs (that also worked on EQ2) stated publicly that list style group finders don't work. Apparently, they sunk a ton of time and resources into a system that the players wouldn't use. He said, basically, that people want to group in his experience, but they don't want to be the guy starting the group and that anything other than an auto-grouping function probably would be a waste of resources. The same thing can be said for WoW's experiments in group finder tools. They had a similar group finder and when given the choice between that and the trade channel, players chose trade chat.

 

WoW's system evolved to what it did because that's what players would use. Distinctions like 'not good for the community' and so forth are so subjective as to be completely meaningless when trying to balance against the rest of the equation.

 

I personally don't see the issue with auto-grouping and porting tools in this game (or any other for that matter). The instances are all in the same place, running there for the thousandth time doesn't increase immersion.

 

Really good post Sendral, can you provide the link for my own personal records? WoW tried almost everything prior to the X-LFD, so why do we want to waste a ton of time and implement the system when the damage has been done 6-12 months down the road?

 

I still honestly haven't heard a fair argument as to how it's destroyed WoW's community. I can understand someone believe in it happening cause that's what they want to believe but when specifically addressed to the issue of how it's been destroyed you get particular evasion style answers like just look at it.

 

Then we have these issues of jerks profilerating in the X-LFD. Are there studies that show X-LFD makes people a jerk? I remember a lot more jerks before the X-LFD hit, think of how many times lazy party members would expect to be summoned, would go off and do something while you sat in trade, and made ridiculous gear requirements for heroics.

[Touchbass]

*sigh* You are missing the point...

 

1 - Introduce LFG.

 

2 - People find it pointless to join guild or to behave polite since they soo easily can get a group anyway.

 

3 - The people I team with today will grow rude and lazy because of the ease of getting another group.

 

4 - People might even start leaving guilds or stop teaming with the guild cause it's easier in LFG where you can be as rude as you want, loot steal as much as you want and so on.

 

= The people that I team with today will degenerate and perhaps even stop wanting to team with me since I expect people to treat me like a human being.

 

= Introducing a LFG tool will destroy the game for a huge number of people and is directly game destroying.

 

So it's not just "don't use it then, it's optional" it's a whole community that will change and will be twisted towards the lazy, uncooperative and rude mode. It's unavoidable.

People are egotists, face it. This will promote their egotism.

 

Lord Jesus, this is the biggest Slippery Slope I've ever seen, and that's saying something.

 

1." X-LFD comes in. "

 

Ok we are in aggreement so far and your starting off good

 

2. "People don't join guilds and start being rude. "

 

HUH? Guilds were going strong long after the X-LFD came out so that's invalid. People were already rude on server pugs, people not showing up to help summon, people demanding gear that was better then the instance to be allowed to run it with them and public flogging if you did anything stupid. I've had better groups in the X-LFD and I think a lot of others have as well.

 

3. "The people I team with today will grow rude and lazy because of the ease of getting another group"

 

Honestly I had to read this three times over to make any sense out of it. So what your saying, or may I say what you are trying to say is your group members are *****. I really can't interupt that any other then that, can someone help me?

 

4. "People might even start leaving guilds or stop teaming with the guild cause it's easier in LFG where you can be as rude as you want, loot steal as much as you want and so on"

 

I thought you blew my mind in the previous one but this is truly insane. Your tears are going to be delicious.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Touchbass

[Sendrel]

Really good post Sendral, can you provide the link for my own personal records? WoW tried almost everything prior to the X-LFD, so why do we want to waste a ton of time and implement the system when the damage has been done 6-12 months down the road?

 

Looks like its been wiped (or my search-fu is weak and/or lazy) so I can't substantiate it. It was made on a well known, unofficial forum where game devs occasionally post.

[Touchbass]

Looks like its been wiped (or my search-fu is weak and/or lazy) so I can't substantiate it. It was made on a well known, unofficial forum where game devs occasionally post.

 

Darn, oh well I'm sure it'll turn up.

[AeonWeapon]

I guess i'll chime in. I boasted about this in beta, so I'll throw this suggestion out on the live forums as well.

 

I sure don't want another LFD feature akin to World of Warcraft. It kills the community by randomly throwing players together with little to no sacrifice if they ninja loot or just act like a jack ***.

 

A few players; myself included, agreed upon the DDO LFG feature being among one of the best. If Bioware updated it's features a little bit it would be perfect. To sum it up:

 

-No cross server queues

-A large UI interface where the dungeon leader creates a group, and then he decides what type of DPS he wants(whether its divided up by class, role, or whatever)heals, tank, etc.

-Random player browses the LFG feature, sees group leader(lets call him bill)wants any tank, ranged dps, and an operative healer. Random player is a ranged DPS. He clicks on Bill's group. Bill sees hes ranged and gets the option to send him a tell or to just invite him. Bill says since hes ranged DPS he doesnt really care and invites him.

 

-Random player 2 is a Sorc healer. It's late at night and he notices Bill's group is in need of an OP healer but there arent any other groups looking for heals at the moment. He clicks the group anyways and it sends bill a message that a different healer wants to join, and it gives him an option to ignore the Sorc, send him a tell, or invite him.

 

-The UI would obviously allow players and group leaders to put up messages and the like to avoid confusion.

 

I played DDO too, and although that system was decent, it only worked well because there were so many people online on the same server in that game. It wouldn't work well here. And one thing that sucked about DDO is, sure there were groups you could join, but if you were looking for a certain quest at a certain level, you often could not find it. If you were looking to do just any quest, then it was easy. The game supported that LFG feature by making every quest replayable, sharable and scalable to various levels of difficulty also, so there was reason for joining quests you've already done. That was a very differnt situation with alot of supporting factors besides the LFG tool itself. TOR does not have those supporting factors and incentives to party up or to redo missions (you can't redo a mission you've already done, you're ineligable.) Dungeons and dragons is all about being in a party, and the online version supports that. TOR is designed to be solo friendly to the point that it not only has little encouragement and incentive to team up, but it actually discourages teaming in many ways.

[AeonWeapon]

Cons:

...

4. Content becomes cycled too quickly and creates boredom.

 

This MAY be true... But you know what? This is a very much preferable type of boredom to the kind of boredom we have now.

 

I would rather have many, many fun, fulfilling group experiences running all the content in the game, and become bored because I did it all alot, then be bored of the game entirely because I CAN'T get into teams to enjoy any of those group experiences.

 

The first kind of boredom, the "did it all" kind of boredom, won't make me quit the game, I'll stay and play new content as it's added (hopefully frequently), and have incentive to play alts because those characters would have access to all the game content with an LFG tool.

 

The second type of boredom, the "I can't play this game beyond this point and I feel stuck where I am" kind of boredom, WILL cause me to quit, because I don't feel the need to keep paying for a service I can't use to the fullest.

 

Incoming metaphor: It's better to be tired after stuffing yourself with a large fulfilling meal than to be tired because you're starving and can't get any food.

Edited January 27, 2012 by AeonWeapon

[Touchbass]

This MAY be true... But you know what? This is a very much preferable type of boredom to the kind of boredom we have now.

 

I would rather have many, many fun, fulfilling group experiences running all the content in the game, and become bored because I did it all alot, then be bored of the game entirely because I CAN'T get into teams to enjoy any of those group experiences.

 

The first kind of boredom, the "did it all" kind of boredom, won't make me quit the game, I'll stay and play new content as it's added (hopefully frequently), and have incentive to play alts because those characters would have access to all the game content with an LFG tool.

 

The second type of boredom, the "I can't play this game beyond this point and I feel stuck where I am" kind of boredom, WILL cause me to quit, because I don't feel the need to keep paying for a service I can't use to the fullest.

 

Incoming metaphor: It's better to be tired after stuffing yourself with a large fulfilling meal than to be tired because you're starving and can't get any food.

 

Agreed. Was trying to objective so I can hold the other side up to it as well

[subrosian]

Please DO NOT PUT A DUNGEON FINDER IN THE GAME.

 

Dungeon and raid finder is what ruined WoW. It destroys community, it eliminates the option to form groups any other way (because no one else is in chat looking for a group), and by making end game content too convenient it leads to the expectation that the content is dumbed down enough for the below average player to complete it.

 

Dungeon finder is the path to a game where nothing in the game takes skill or time... and therefore nothing in the game provides a satisfying reward.

 

PLEASE IGNORE ANYONE WHO SAYS SUCH A FEATURE WOULD BE OPTIONAL, It isn't... the noment its implemented the forum QQ of "random groups can't do the too hard dungeons" starts and the game is permanently ruined.

[raidyr]

Dungeon and raid finder is what ruined WoW.

If I had a nickel for every time someone said x ruined WoW....

 

Dungeon Finder was a great tool for WoW and it's exclusion from this game at launch is as disappointing as it is confusing.

[Sendrel]

Please DO NOT PUT A DUNGEON FINDER IN THE GAME.

 

Dungeon and raid finder is what ruined WoW. It destroys community, it eliminates the option to form groups any other way (because no one else is in chat looking for a group), and by making end game content too convenient it leads to the expectation that the content is dumbed down enough for the below average player to complete it.

 

Dungeon finder is the path to a game where nothing in the game takes skill or time... and therefore nothing in the game provides a satisfying reward.

 

PLEASE IGNORE ANYONE WHO SAYS SUCH A FEATURE WOULD BE OPTIONAL, It isn't... the noment its implemented the forum QQ of "random groups can't do the too hard dungeons" starts and the game is permanently ruined.

 

Arguing from repetition is pretty annoying. If you can't beat 'em, just keep shouting 'LALALALFDSUCKSLALALA' til they lose the will to respond.

[navarh]

It destroys community, it eliminates the option to form groups any other way (because no one else is in chat looking for a group)

ohnoesss

 

and how about your friends and guild? where that blahblahblah get the guild blahblah make friends?…

post like this:

"i don't want LFG tool so don't implemen it"

don't write anything beside this or you will prove yourself wrong in the same post

[raidyr]

Arguing from repetition is pretty annoying. If you can't beat 'em, just keep shouting 'LALALALFDSUCKSLALALA' til they lose the will to respond.

 

You forgot "BUT IT WILL KILL THE COMMUNITY" nonsense that is never backed up and when it is, with ridiculous hyperbole like "My entire WoW server died the day after they added dungeon finder".

[silverprovidence]

What is needed is not an automatic finder+porter. Whats needed is an actual manual LFG Tool that lets players broadcast their group wishes and allow others to search and narrow down what people are looking for regardless of where they are in the game. And no, /who does not count. That does not allow you to select what flashpoint people are hoping for as a filter option, and you'd still have to do a search of every planet, and then still go through all the people who ARENT flagged 'lfg'. Edited January 27, 2012 by silverprovidence

[subrosian]

I still honestly haven't heard a fair argument as to how it's destroyed WoW's community. I can understand someone believe in it happening cause that's what they want to believe but when specifically addressed to the issue of how it's been destroyed you get particular evasion style answers like just look at it.

 

It creates a "fast food" culture that is anathema to cooperative content. When Cata launched it had Heroic dungeons that required players to work together and use their class abilities. People complained that they had to run with their guilds to clear the dungeons, because when they used the dungeon finder, they were grouped with people who refused to communicate, did not know how to play their class and got mad when given advice on the fights.

 

The decision was made to nerf the dungeons until they no longer required teamwork, and the latest dungeons literally do not require CC to complete. Because DPS is all that determines success or failure, people focus completely on meters, and as the content requires less teamwork, people are intolerant of new players.

 

The dungeon finder is the cornerstone of the problem. With no barrier to entry, players who are not ready get into the content with no one helping them learn it. With no time invested in forming the group, there is no barrier to exit encouraging groups to help new players.

 

 

-

 

Those barriers might seem "optional" to you, but to a game theorist like me (a field of math and economics dealing with the math of choice) it is actually mandatory to have these barriers to encourage cooperative behavior. Make the dungeons too easy or too acceesible, and you are guaranteed to see the massive loss of subscribers you see in wow, as half the players are bored by easy mode content, and the other half are frustrated because no one will take the time to help them get better at ghe game.

[lordhaizen]

So if you have time and a big guild nice but if you dont have should you be forced join one ?

 

Nice Community idea

 

Dungeon Finder Now

[Vrumpt]

Please DO NOT PUT A DUNGEON FINDER IN THE GAME.

 

Dungeon and raid finder is what ruined WoW. It destroys community, it eliminates the option to form groups any other way (because no one else is in chat looking for a group), and by making end game content too convenient it leads to the expectation that the content is dumbed down enough for the below average player to complete it.

 

Dungeon finder is the path to a game where nothing in the game takes skill or time... and therefore nothing in the game provides a satisfying reward.

 

PLEASE IGNORE ANYONE WHO SAYS SUCH A FEATURE WOULD BE OPTIONAL, It isn't... the noment its implemented the forum QQ of "random groups can't do the too hard dungeons" starts and the game is permanently ruined.

 

Thank you. We need more people voicing their opinions like this. LFG is a path to the dark side. Copy one thing and suddenly you may as well copy everything.

 

I love how all the pro-LFG fools think that casually disregarding these points without event thinking about them is the way to go. Think about it and its easy to see by example how a tool that eliminates social interaction can start the path to a game where nobody talks to each other and guilds are useless.

 

You pro-LFG peeps are whats gonna kill this game. Stop shouting and start thinking about what actually happens when you no longer have to say a word to another person.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Vrumpt