Touchbass Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I said average person, yes there are some people who arn't going to like the exclusion of the tool and some people who wont like the inclusion this isn't really a fact that it's needed or a fact that the average enjoyment of the game will increase. Straw man. Please provide a citation of north American/European subscriptions during this time since the Asian "subscriptions" are so messed up as a metric. Google, i'm not doing your homework for you. I'm challenging you to prove me wrong on this. And bioware has also stated they are philisophically against a cross server dungeon finder at this stage in the game. I don't think this stance has changed. Straw man. Right nobody in here is arguing with facts it's all opinions so calling one side out for using opinions while doing it yourself is just plain stupid. Again a Straw man. We've been discussing this issue for capped threads on the matter and most of the resistance is "Destroys communnities" and other clever one liners. We've spent our time building towards a compromise with felllow gamers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXgatorboyXx Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Lol read my posts, i'm not against a dungeon finder, I just find it funny that you guys keep saying where are the facts that it destroys the community, oh herp derp I can't prove **** that it makes the game better. You think we are crying cause we want to? I waited in anticipation like others for this game for ages and we get a product that lacks basic functions that are present in older games. 200 pages+ 200+ that says enough alone /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeonWeapon Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I certainly don't want to be part of a game community with anyone who doesn't give a damn about me enough to care whether I get to actually play the game. I would gladly use the LFG tool and, after seeing how you anti-LFG people think so selfishly and inconsiderately, wanting to deny fun to others because you feel you have the right to dictate how they should play the game, I now have another reason to want the tool: It would separate me from you selfish, stubborn, unsympathetic people, because you would not be in queue with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Bioware has always said this is something they would have to come back and visit, I don't think they have even said it's a local server dungeon finder that auto groups you. No one is saying it is. Logic also states that normally only people with a bad experience speak out so people that are happy and having a good time are probably in the game instead of wasting their time on a dungeon finder thread. Straw man. I post at work, lol. And to them it's an issue with new kids who want instant gratification having have everything now now now. Straw man. You don't have facts you have opinions just like they do. We have logic and it's getting noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitiock Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Straw man. Google, i'm not doing your homework for you. I'm challenging you to prove me wrong on this. I ask for facts supporting your side since you claim the people against it have none and this is what I get? Straw man. I'm not building up an argument that isn't related and beating it down, i'm asking you for facts that the average persons experience would be increased by it. Again a Straw man. We've been discussing this issue for capped threads on the matter and most of the resistance is "Destroys communnities" and other clever one liners. We've spent our time building towards a compromise with felllow gamers. I'm starting to think that anything you disagree with is a strawman, pointing out that the company running the game has a similar belief is not making a strawman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitiock Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 You think we are crying cause we want to? I waited in anticipation like others for this game for ages and we get a product that lacks basic functions that are present in older games. 200 pages+ 200+ that says enough alone /thread No I don't think you are here because YOU don't believe you have a problem, just like I don't think people claiming it destroys the community are here because THEY don't have a problem. Do I think that either of you are presenting facts with your personal experience, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I ask for facts .... Prove me wrong on the subscriptions numbers that you challenged me on. I've been waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeonWeapon Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Here's an idea: Let's put the LFG tool on the Sith side and no LFG on Republic side, then see if the sides balance out because more people change over to Republic out of hatred for the LFG tool. Then we would really have philosophical differences to go to war over. I guarantee however that the Republic side would just become more outnumbered than it already is because people would want to use the LFG tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) I'm still waiting Vitiock, you've made a claim about something that we both know can be looked into and substantiated or proven invalid Edited January 25, 2012 by Touchbass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexbeav Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Oh man as far as I know most people still say the burning crusade was the best expansion for wow, which didn't have a cross server dungeon finder... Wrath of the Lich King didn't have the LFG tool implemented until half-way through either. And I don't think they consider BC superior because it didn't have any LFG tool, but rather because trash pulls required correct CC application to get past from, and were not an AOE spam in each room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXgatorboyXx Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Last time I checked BW made the game not Vitiock, who the **** are you anyways to demand facts on whether or not something is going to benefit ****. Mass numbers of customers are demanding a service that should have been included in the first place, BW now has to play there hand, fix the issues and save the game, or leave it status quo and have fun watching as the population dwindles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitiock Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Wrath of the Lich King didn't have the LFG tool implemented until half-way through either. And I don't think they consider BC superior because it didn't have any LFG tool, but rather because trash pulls required correct CC application to get past from, and were not an AOE spam in each room. Yes but if they are claiming that an expansion without the dungeon finder is better that means that the dungeon finder really isn't that important in the end. I don't think people who thought wrath of the lich king was the best would point to the dungeon finder as their reason for it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Last time I checked BW made the game not Vitiock, who the **** are you anyways to demand facts on whether or not something is going to benefit ****. Mass numbers of customers are demanding a service that should have been included in the first place, BW now has to play there hand, fix the issues and save the game, or leave it status quo and have fun watching as the population dwindles Amen brother. Bet you anything Vitoch will respond to this and not my rebuttal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitiock Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I'm still waiting Vitiock, you've made a claim about something that we both know can be looked into and substantiated or proven invalid I am asking you to back up your point like many people on this forum have asked the people who say it destroys communities do. I don't think this is unfair or unfounded, but it seems you don't feel that turning that argument around is fair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 LOL he was posting every minute on the forums, got challenged, randomly disappears for a few minutes (we'll call this the google phase) and responds to an off the cuff remark. I got a good laugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitiock Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Last time I checked BW made the game not Vitiock, who the **** are you anyways to demand facts on whether or not something is going to benefit ****. Mass numbers of customers are demanding a service that should have been included in the first place, BW now has to play there hand, fix the issues and save the game, or leave it status quo and have fun watching as the population dwindles Please refer to the dev post quoted on the front of this page. You will notice that bioware is against x-server dungeon finders, I don't think a few peoples opinions are going to change that. And please can you tell me where these masses of people are, there are over 2 million subscribers but I doubt there have been 20000 unique posters in these threads, which means that less than 1% of people care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeonWeapon Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Last time I checked BW made the game not Vitiock, who the **** are you anyways to demand facts on whether or not something is going to benefit ****. Mass numbers of customers are demanding a service that should have been included in the first place, BW now has to play there hand, fix the issues and save the game, or leave it status quo and have fun watching as the population dwindles Even if the anti-LFG people do outnumber the people who want it (which I HIGHLY doubt), enough of us want it that we should get it. Numbers dont' mean everything. If you dont' like it, don't use it (I feel like a broken record having to repeat this so much.) Read Rousseau's Social Contract: The good of the majority is not the same thing as the general good. If both sides can have our way, if people who like the tool can use it and people who prefer finding groups in chat can still form groups in chat, there's no reason why both sides shouldn't have our way. We're all paying the same subscription, and enough of us want this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) I am asking you to back up your point like many people on this forum have asked the people who say it destroys communities do. I don't think this is unfair or unfounded, but it seems you don't feel that turning that argument around is fair? I'm not repeating my words everytime someone disagrees and refuses to read the thread. Edited January 25, 2012 by Touchbass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitiock Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I'm not repeating my words everytime someone disagrees and refuses to read the thread. Welcome to our thread Durio! I threw down the gauntlet a few threads ago asking for any reason why an X-LFD would be damaging without using rhetoric or conjecture on the matter. All I've gotten is an elongated reason that is destroys communities based on personal evidence. The fact that they can't produce any evidence is why we are going to get a X-LFD eventually Man you would think someone who throws down the gauntlet like this would accept my challenge to provide facts, must not have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeonWeapon Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Please refer to the dev post quoted on the front of this page. You will notice that bioware is against x-server dungeon finders, I don't think a few peoples opinions are going to change that. And please can you tell me where these masses of people are, there are over 2 million subscribers but I doubt there have been 20000 unique posters in these threads, which means that less than 1% of people care. The majority of players don't post in the forums. It's like that in every game, most people just play the game and don't go on the forums at all. Most people will also just quit the game if they're unhappy with it, without a word said on the forum. So... that argument has no meaning, next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitiock Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Even if the anti-LFG people do outnumber the people who want it (which I HIGHLY doubt), enough of us want it that we should get it. Numbers dont' mean everything. If you dont' like it, don't use it (I feel like a broken record having to repeat this so much.) Read Rousseau's Social Contract: The good of the majority is not the same thing as the general good. If both sides can have our way, if people who like the tool can use it and people who prefer finding groups in chat can still form groups in chat, there's no reason why both sides shouldn't have our way. We're all paying the same subscription, and enough of us want this. If as people claim the inclusion of this tool prevents them from having their way shouldn't it be the good of the majority instead of the good of the minority? You aren't losing anything by them not adding a feature, where these people claim they will be loosing something by the inclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXgatorboyXx Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Please refer to the dev post quoted on the front of this page. You will notice that bioware is against x-server dungeon finders, I don't think a few peoples opinions are going to change that. And please can you tell me where these masses of people are, there are over 2 million subscribers but I doubt there have been 20000 unique posters in these threads, which means that less than 1% of people care. Go to google and type in "swtor D" and tell me what the first thing that it suggest is? this thread. Yeah I imagine everyone whos having issues with the game are coming here to complain*sarcasim*, the only reason I'm complaining is cause I unfortunately dumped money into this game and I'd like to see some changes, if they don't change it i'll leave like I'm sure many already have Edited January 25, 2012 by xXgatorboyXx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitiock Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The majority of players don't post in the forums. It's like that in every game, most people just play the game and don't go on the forums at all. Most people will also just quit the game if they're unhappy with it, without a word said on the forum. So... that argument has no meaning, next? Right it has no meaning just like saying a bunch of people posted in this thread so it should be put in the game has no meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexbeav Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Personally, I leveled while playing WoW and the only dungeons I ever ran until 70 were Deadmines and Stockades. I finished leveling just by questing, hit 80 and THEN started running dungeons for the gear. When I started an alt, the LFG proved invaluable to me having a positive leveling experience : I would keep on questing while looking for a group, and saw all the dungeons I never got a chance to see while leveling my main, because there were simply not enough people in *area name* who were interested in grouping up for the dungeon. I do believe that an intra-server LFD tool would be great. I also believe that some people would have a better experience with a X-server LFD. Why not give them both ? An LFG tool with the option of looking inside your own server or checking the rest as well. With or without it, I *am* going to level my alts. But it will be a much better experience if I have the tool, and it will most certainly be very helpful to people with jobs and families, that don't want to spam general chat for 30' to get a group for a dungeon that's shorter than that. If you like to do it "old-school", be my guest. I'm not going to stop you or berate you if you want to spam general, though I *will* be ticked off if you clog up the chat while an interesting conversation is going on, and will point you to each server's dedicated LFG channel (/cjoin LFG). I will also not stop you or hold a grudge against you if you want to go to your nearest lake, fish until you catch your dinner, and cook it in a nearby campfire. But please don't berate me if I just drive to go buy my fish and cook it in my oven. "Live and let live" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitiock Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Go to google and type in "swtor D" and tell me what the first thing that it suggest is? this thread. Yeah I imagine everyone whos having issues with the game are coming here to complain, the only reason I'm complaining is cause I unfortunately dumped money into this game and I'd like to see some changes, if they don't change it i'll leave like I'm sure many already have I'm not saying you aren't right to complain and have no right to ask for features, i'm merely saying that the people asking for facts from the people against it while providing none of their own are pretty hypocritical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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