Dungeon Finder Needed Badly.

[savagepotato]

And Savage potato why are you even on the forums you love the game so much man shouldn't you be playing it instead of trying to argue with those who are voicing there opinions about the game needing a dungeon finder?Seriously man you have way to much time on your hands if you your satisfied with the games features and are still on here trying to argue with people..Moms basement? I'm just putting how I feel up on there cause I want to see this game succeed and not be dead in a year and trust me if they don't implement something that makes queuing up for Flash Points which are a huge part of the game easier have fun with your free to play mmo.

 

Id love to be playing right now. Were I at home, in my apartment, thank you, I would be doing so.

 

As it happens however, I am at work, wasting time communicating with highly intelligent creatures such as yourself as an alternative to work.

[Touchbass]

Given how much money was allegedly spent developing TOR, I really doubt that 'go back to WoW nub lulz!' is the answer the devs will arrive at.

 

Once you realize how much money was spent on the single player experience of this game (voice quests, different journeys to 50) versus traditional mmo tenets of an elongated end game it baffles my mind as why people think this game can afford to lose a chunk of the crowd the game has been marketed too.

[Touchbass]

Id love to be playing right now. Were I at home, in my apartment, thank you, I would be doing so.

 

As it happens however, I am at work, wasting time communicating with highly intelligent creatures such as yourself as an alternative to work.

 

I also get to post at work, gotta love the digital age Mr. Potato head

[cjmilla]

You know your not at work your in your moms basement don't lie.Must be a important job to be trolling TOR forums picking arguments with people who want a method to play the game easier.Nobody would ever force you to use a dungeon finder if there was one man so why do you even care?Get back to work!

[savagepotato]

So you'd rather destory the game for a lot of people then listen to a rationale argument? LFD will come to this game, it's just a matter of when. Bioware hasn't had time to develop it yet, not because it's trying to make you a special snowflake.

 

The force isn't strong in this one me thinks, I'm having a great time for the time being, why would I leave? You think i'd leave if they didn't put a LFD tool in? I'm not a child I'm just trying to help people find working solutions.

 

It's kinda ironic that your getting your panties in a knot over not changing a game that's concept is built on change, don't ya think? Lets keep our discussion going Savage but you need to be less hostile and present some facts or something. Read my major thread on page 6 and tell me what you think is wrong and we can work for them.

 

The issue has been discussed thoroughly in more threads that I can remember at this point. There isn't much point at all in going back and forth again over the same argument that has been gone back and forth over again a hundred times.

 

Given the developers have already spoken on the subject in the dev tracker, it is even more pointless. Cross server LFD will in fact NOT becoming to this game in the immediate future. Get over it.

 

The day it does assuming that day ever comes, and I hope bioware keeps the sense they seem to have now on the issue, the game can proceed to degenerate into the lowest common denominator garbage you seek.

 

I'm just here for the entertainment value of watching you fools angle and try to spin mediocrity into a good thing. The lengths you will go to try to impose garbage like cross server LFD on the game are amusing to say the least.

[BlueSkittles]

I'm quite willing to endure a few server merges and a smaller population game if it means I don't have to play the all new and improved WoW 2.0 with 100% more star wars.

 

Seriously, leave now, I won't miss you, take your instant gratification kind with you, and the game can move in a direction that isn't focused on catering to your instant gratification wants.

 

You can go back to WoW and use the LFD tool you love there to your hearts content. Perfectly logical solution. The product you seek already exists. Stop trying to change the product I like into what you want.

 

Ummm, no. I plan on staying with SWTOR for however long it takes until they put in a proven system similar to Wow/Rift/any-modern-MMO's LFG tool. And WoW's Dungeon Finder was SO unsuccessful, they created a whole Looking for Raid tool that does the exact thing, and according to MMO Champion, allows more people to experience content, thus more subscribers/re-subcribers/not-losing-subscribers.

 

Source: http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2614-Dragon-Soul-and-Firelands-Statistics-Blue-Posts-Poll

 

Got this quote from James Ohlen “Works for established video games, (but is) not in however.” So I guess you hope SWTOR never becomes "established".

 

Source: http://averagejoegamers.com/game/swtor-to-start-with-fifteen-flashpoints-but-most-likely-no-dungeon-finder/

 

Also, savagepotato, don't EVER *********** call me and people support a modern LFG tool lazy again. That is not only insulting, but plain wrong.

Edited January 18, 2012 by BlueSkittles

[savagepotato]

You know your not at work your in your moms basement don't lie.Must be a important job to be trolling TOR forums picking arguments with people who want a method to play the game easier.Nobody would ever force you to use a dungeon finder if there was one man so why do you even care?Get back to work!

 

Nah it's not all that important a job at all, but it's quite easy, pays good, and I have an office to sit in and be amused by your angry attempts to instill mediocrity in your wake.

[Dyvid]

You know all this community talk isn't helping me find a group in the morning hours before I have to go to work. I'm also on a very popular server so you can't say that's the problem. Without a better LFG system I have 2 choices: 1) sit in the fleet for hours hoping I can find other people @ the right level to group with or 2) roll another character and just solo that up to 50, rinse repeat.

[Morenomdz]

Totaly agree.

 

Comparing directly to WoW, grouping for dungeons was damn hard even on high pop servers for several reasons, finding a tank, healer etc, but it got much better after the LFG Tool.

 

Yes, sometimes it takes over 10 minutes for a dps class find a group, but is much better wait for a tool to build up a decent group for you while you watch a movie or do something else ingame than keep yelling at the chat every minute or so trying to find players for your group.

[Touchbass]

Ummm, no. I plan on staying with SWTOR for however long it takes until they put in a proven system similar to Wow/Rift/any-modern-MMO's LFG tool. And WoW's Dungeon Finder was SO unsuccessful, they created a whole Looking for Raid tool that does the exact thing, and according to MMO Champion, allows more people to experience content, thus more subscribers/re-subcribers/not-losing-subscribers.

 

Source: http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2614-Dragon-Soul-and-Firelands-Statistics-Blue-Posts-Poll

 

Got this quote from James Ohlen “Works for established video games, (but is) not in however.” So I guess you hope SWTOR never becomes "established".

 

Source: http://averagejoegamers.com/game/swtor-to-start-with-fifteen-flashpoints-but-most-likely-no-dungeon-finder/

 

Also, savagepotato, don't EVER *********** call me and people support a modern LFG tool lazy again. That is not only insulting, but plain wrong.

 

I've tried reaching out to Savage but it's a lost cause. He'd rather see the game burn then help a vast majority of it's playerbase. But keep up the good fight, we are breaking down the walls of ignorance, just takes some time.

[savagepotato]

Totaly agree.

 

Comparing directly to WoW, grouping for dungeons was damn hard even on high pop servers for several reasons, finding a tank, healer etc, but it got much better after the LFG Tool.

 

Yes, sometimes it takes over 10 minutes for a dps class find a group, but is much better wait for a tool to build up a decent group for you while you watch a movie or do something else ingame than keep yelling at the chat every minute or so trying to find players for your group.

 

Over TEN minutes?

 

The horror. No people who can't function without a LFD tool aren't lazy or impatient at all, I totally see the other poster at the top of this pages point now...

[Touchbass]

The issue has been discussed thoroughly in more threads that I can remember at this point. There isn't much point at all in going back and forth again over the same argument that has been gone back and forth over again a hundred times.

 

Given the developers have already spoken on the subject in the dev tracker, it is even more pointless. Cross server LFD will in fact NOT becoming to this game in the immediate future. Get over it.

 

The day it does assuming that day ever comes, and I hope bioware keeps the sense they seem to have now on the issue, the game can proceed to degenerate into the lowest common denominator garbage you seek.

 

I'm just here for the entertainment value of watching you fools angle and try to spin mediocrity into a good thing. The lengths you will go to try to impose garbage like cross server LFD on the game are amusing to say the least.

 

 

The issue has been discussed and as it stands the why we need a LFD argument has not been rebuked at all. There are cons to a LFD, no one is denying that, however the pros to it vastly out weight it tenfold.

 

 

The developers are going to have to implement it in the near future, maybe a 1 but it's coming. Everyday more and more people come to the forums asking for these features and there are less and less of you around, it's a numbers game you can't win

[savagepotato]

I've tried reaching out to Savage but it's a lost cause. He'd rather see the game burn then help a vast majority of it's playerbase. But keep up the good fight, we are breaking down the walls of ignorance, just takes some time.

 

No you know what? I've been there and done that on trying to have any kind of discussion about the subject, threads and threads ago.

 

But there is no discussion on the subject. The pro-lfd people only have one outcome, cross server lfd or nothing.

 

All it is at this point is a flame war. Might as well watch it burn.

[Touchbass]

Over TEN minutes?

 

The horror. No people who can't function without a LFD tool aren't lazy or impatient at all, I totally see the other poster at the top of this pages point now...

 

He's entitled to his own opinion, you can't say he isn't. I'm gonna post something below for you to attack, why don't you pick on someone bigger then you

 

Come at me bro!

Edited January 18, 2012 by Touchbass

[Mailek]

What this game really needs at this point...is a Dungeon Finder. It was a huge success in other MMO's, no reason for it not to be in this game.

 

Pros:

 

1. Can continue questing while waiting for group to form.

2. Prevents trolls from sitting there ruining General Chat while they are bored trying to fill a group.

3. Proves that BioWare can do something like this. Buys street creds.

 

Cons:

 

1. Some people think it ruins the community...but I think they are wrong. They obviously have not sat for an hour trying to fill a Flashpoint group.

2. People who think like that are probably in a huge guild and have no trouble filling groups. We're usually filling 2-3 of 4 and just need that last role.

 

Dungeon Finder is not needed at this time and it's a stupid idea anyways. How hard is it for you to socialize or be in a guild and ask in voice chat / guild chat? Really, are you that lazy that you can't take your hands off that cheeseburger to type something out, you would rather just click a button right? Pffftt

[Touchbass]

Before we begin our discussion, I'd like to start off with two extremely positive things LFD has brought to the WoW community. I'm not saying these two particular benefits make the LFD mandatory, but for us to have any kind of a civilized conversation you need to first recognize the inherent benefits LFD has brought to these two issues.

 

1) The saviour of low population servers

 

The global LFD tool basically prevented low population servers from hemorrhaging players and salvaged a ton of communities from what a lot of players had previously written off. For those who are unaware, there are currently servers (especially alliance) with less than 30-40 players at max level at a given time during peak hours. You can literally spam for hours and not receive any replies, its quiet depressing in fact. To be an unfortunate individual stuck on one of those servers, you tend to have one out of three options: spend real life money to transfer off, quit the game, or play the game in a limited capacity. I don’t have the numbers for each of those three options but I’m sure to some of those left on the server felt as if they were on a ‘sinking ship’. When the LFG hit, populations took surges and people came back again. Players could gear themselves up independently of the server being in shambles and guilds were allowed spend their time tackling raids instead of searching for the elusive member(s) to fill out the dungeon group.

 

2) Access to low level content

 

I’ve seen some servers with more naked BE’s running around Orgimmar begging for doubloons than the entire max level base of other servers, even with these massive populations problems can still exist. While the good times were rolling (or dancing on mailboxes), hardly anybody was running low level dungeons. The problem wasn't lack of interest (as inherent of how easy it is now to get a group for lower level dungeons regardless of your group role), the issue was that it is time consuming and a pain in the butt to track down people and fill out the trinity for content that you could of probably leveled out of by the time you finished the bloody dungeon in the first place. With the addition of LFD, leveling became less of a pain if it wasn't your thing and created access. I don't think a lot of people realize that with the LFD a lot of players for the first time got to see these dungeons within the appropriate difficulty parameters.

 

 

The next section is some insight into why the whole LFD crisis came up in the first place

 

1) Gaming demographics have changed

 

The average face of a MMORPG gamer has changed dramatically over the past, we are melting pot of veterans, power games, stay at home dad/moms, the unemployed, the mentally ill, casual gamers and multi-platform gamers. Due to the mass appeal, subscriptions have soared like never before and have brought unforeseen consequences when the play styles of some of these gamers have clashed. The challenge is how we accommodate players of differing extremes: some want tight-knit communities that encourage and require players to work together, players who support grouping within same server but demand working reliable tools to facilitate the process, and finally players who frankly just want access to the game they paid for at their convenience.

 

2) Why should we be catering to these different crowds?

 

Money. The things money buys is good for an MMORPG, it allows it to evolve and address the concerns of players in a reasonable amount of time. The wheeled engine of WoW costs a tremendous amount of money to run, if we got rid of all those players that didn't fit 100% into our ideologies of what a gamer should be we'd see substantial loss of customer service, R&D and free content patches to just name a few things. More importantly, life sometimes makes you transition your availability due to work/school/annoying wife, if a game you truly enjoy is built around one play style you'd be up the creek without a paddle if you can't obligate that time anymore. All of us are probably guilty of taking advantage of the benefits brought to us from our fellow gamers; we need to be more sympathetic to their plight.

 

3) This isn't Kansas anymore

 

Don't let anyone fool you, traditional MMORPG's were built on the concept of ludicrous grinds that basically required an obscene amount of time to reach max level. Now don't confuse my words, this isn't a discussion of how long the leveling process should take or am I advocating the hitting of max level of not being an accomplishment - what I am trying to say is the gaming atmosphere of old which doesn't exist in any practical sense to the target markets Western MMO's are trying to reach out towards. We are spending countless resources trying to redo the leveling process and making it alt friendly, why would we do that when the hard cores spend most of their time at max level? We do this because they are no longer the majority of the player base and the genre has evolved for better or worse, the pockets of the many out weight the pockets of the few.

 

 

4) The Rise of the Titans

 

The height of MMORPG's are communities (think of the name itself), they are living bustling entities that evolve even when you aren't logged on. One of the most efficient and memorable ways of binding a community is the requirement of other players to facilitate something, whether a crafting ingredient or his/her help in a group for example. This created an atmosphere were people who put any resemblance of effort to becoming actually integrated into server and those who caused any problems where chastised and shunned. Imagine advertising your group intentions in whatever deemed appropriate channel and being able to categorize all of your responses with the notation of whether that person is worth grouping with or a waste of time. Don't underplay the notion that servers felt distinctly different from one another and had an identify, rolling need for an off spec item if that was taboo on the server could literally blacklist you. Wait, why is any of this deemed a problem?

 

5) Square peg meets the round hole

 

I'd like to take a moment to introduce myself at this point, hi my name is Charles and I'm a tank. I was the living breathing personification of the aforementioned lifestyle, I'd log to receive a plethora of tells to clear up dungeons for friends on off nights and raid like men on main nights. Everything was going great until I had my son; life and my game time started to change drastically for me at this point. No longer could I commit set chunks of time to play due to child raising duties and I was conversely dropped off the guilds active roster as the tank. I was still able to complete dungeons and occasionally fill in to OT but something fundamentally changed, getting premade groups became difficult for me. What changed wasn't that I become unpopular or my skills had waned to the point of “noobery”, what had fundamentally changed was how much of a hassle everything had become. Before I’d plan to play only 3 hours due to other obligations, I’d log on, see who’s on and we’d negotiate when we’d start. This would allow me to delay my set chunk of time to later or start it immediately and get off, now when I tried to get groups together it was a one shot deal and if people were indisposed at the moment I was unable to get anything done. After weeks of incomplete game time I regrettably said my farewells to my server top guild and only came back for expansion releases (when groups are easy to find) and permanently when the LFD came out.

 

This next part I attempt to highlight why certain situations paved the way for the LFD in the first place, I’ll be making some assumptions but anyone with a dog in the fight (aka has a job and/or family life) will understand that they are reasonable and fair.

 

 

1)Not everyone has 24/7 availability

 

If you work a full-time you only really have between 3-4 hours of playtime a night before you are significantly affecting other areas of your life. Weekends are a different story, sometimes you get to play a lot and sometimes you have less time then weekdays, but let’s say you squeeze in 10 hours total across the weekend. I’m being very generous with the above allotted times, if you have any outside obligations, hobbies, studies, other games of interest or a family, those times allotted are going to skyrocket down. That equals 25 hours of playtime roughly week for a medium to borderline hard core gamer, where I personally think most people are between 11-16 hours. Some people think spending an hour to form a group of “friends” online is acceptable gameplay, while I won’t say that they are wrong but I’m going to say a lot of others disagree strongly.

 

 

2)Think LFD causes problems? The old model was worse

 

Now picture you log on for your daily bread (I mean hours) and instead of going out and enjoying the world you have to stand around a capital city to ask for a group. You just got off work and already you’re not having fun, you’re being forced to work to enjoy yourself. Under the old model it used to take around 20 minutes at minimal for assembling the group and arrival at the instance, some people could get it done faster and others, well couldn’t get it done at all for various reasons. Now imagine someone has to go, god forbid it’s a tank and that means someone has to leave the instance to ask again, by this point another player may drop and your run could be over. Having a run collapse can eat upwards of 2 hours of someone’s play time, if not more. Losing that time may not be a big deal to someone but if they only have 11-16 hours to play a week, not being able to get a dungeon off the ground is going to cost them a significant chunk of their playtime for the week and not including the time it takes to assemble another one.

 

3)The solution that worked for most gamers

 

With the addition of the LFD tool, gamers where finally given a tool that could maximize a person’s time in an efficient manner. When you click that button you know you have roughly between 10 and 30 minutes at longest before you group starts. This gave players the option of doing some dailies, farming some particular items or doing something quick in real life, regardless of their choice they were finally using their time to something they wished. This isn’t as much about the length of time but the expected duration of how long a particular task will take which is important. If I know I that when I log on and I have 3 hours to play and I can calculate it’ll take me 30 minutes to assemble a group, 1 hour to complete it and 45 minutes to do my dailies afterwards I’ll be a happy customer. Now imagine I log on, spend over an hour trying to find a group and can’t complete the group, by the time I reach the point where I can no longer finish the dungeon due to time constraints I’m going to rush through my dailies in a bitter mood. This doesn’t have to happen many times for people to throw up their hands and say to “hell with it”.

 

4)Work odd hour or strangely irregular hours

 

One of the biggest groups that got punished were those who didn’t game when the rest of us were online. Think you got issues assembling a group in the pre-LFD days, trying being online when there aren’t even 5 people online at your level. For years they were told to relocate to a server that best fits their needs, ignore the content entirely or quit. I shouldn’t have to go into why there is something substantial wrong with the above helpful advice and in fact I won’t.

 

5)The player level bubble

This sort of ties within an earlier point but I just wanted to expand on it quickly. Group content is great when it’s accessible now imagining having no one around you to complete it. If the majority of players are at max level how are you supposed to perform group activities prior to the level cap? The old model was beg in /1 or coerce a guildie into feeling bad enough to run you through it. This is the reason WoW removed the majority of elite group quests, not because people weren’t interested in them but because people couldn’t get them done in a reasonable amount of time.

 

The next section is my attempt to reconcile the two crowds and try to break the ignorance that is plagued towards us “second class citizens”

 

1)The LFD destroys communities rant

 

This is the biggest and loudest argument and deservers the most attention, we need to think about what the perspective is of the person who is advocating this and what are his intentions. His premise is very understandable, why on earth would you want anything you cherished to be besieged? The players from this perspective are happy with their current gaming experiences and view anything dramatically changing as threatening their positive experiences. They may claim they are community individuals, but they aren’t in fact they really only looking out for their own interests and have no regard for the majority of the player base.

 

2)The LFD killed WoW (or severely crippled it)

 

This has to be the most erroneous statement I’ve heard in the debate and I have to applaud who came up with that conjecture for how much is has swamped the MMORPG community. First off, how would you analyze this statement for any shred of truth? I’m not going to take your anecdotal evidence as fact, because quite frankly the LFD tool brought me back to the game and I know countless others who came back to the game because of it. In fact, the only evidence we can look at that is considered fair is how many subscriptions came back with the addition of the LFG feature versus who left the game at the same time. I wonder who’s going to come out on top of that one

 

3)The majority of these people opposing the LFD are hypocrites

 

The only thing that changed was that we could no longer force people to communicate with others when they didn’t wish it or it wasn’t convenient. If you had a laundry list of friend’s pre-LFD to always do groups with, you should have seen absolutely no change at all in your gameplay experience. What could have possibly changed? You would log on, talk to your guildies and friends and come up with a time to run dungeons as you always did prior. If you were unable to facilitate a group as it sometimes can happen, you’d ask if anyone knew anyone or you simply just ask in trade. When someone refers to bad experiences with the LFD tool, I ask myself how they found themselves interacting with the tool in the first place. You clearly couldn’t find anybody to group with so instead of sitting around in Orgimmar spamming for groups you realized what the rest of us realized years ago that it that wasn’t fun. You then took the approach of joining a queue intended for a different gaming experience and got upset when it wasn’t to your liking. I can’t be the only one who is baffled by this, can I?

 

 

4)Ask not what your server can do for you but what you can do for your server

 

With every major patch people leave and quit which swings servers into mayhem. One of the servers a buddy of mine played on was Smolderthorn, it had a top 100 guild and a fair balance till WOTLK server instability issues forced transfers. Within a few content cycles the server was completely damaged and people jumped ship. If someone quit during TBC and came back after the LFD was introduced he’d logically think it killed the server when it fact did not. Become part of the solution and not the problem, post your attentions on the server forums that you want to participate in a server event. You don’t even have to do know what to; you can usually leverage someone with ideas that has no warm bodies to fill them. Start small and work your way up. There is tons of information on Google on this so happy hunting!

 

5)Players have diminished in quality since the LFD for reason X,Y, and Z

 

No, what has happened is people are of different skill backgrounds and you’ve just never realized just how many of them take up your player base who keeps your game running. This isn’t the days of yore when everyone who plays strongly understands the genre, blizzard has opened up the market for different crowds and it’s their playing experience too. Think of it from the other side of the coin, how do you think it is for us more casual player base to deal with you people on a more regular basis? Don’t got 100% optimized gear and talent spec for an encounter that don’t require it, get ready to get instructed on the values of life and potentially booted. Ask to a do all the bosses to a geared tank, better believe that’s a vote kick.

 

6)The Z in “X,Y, and Z” is for laZy

 

One concern is that queue based systems will make people lazy and lethargically spend their time throughout the game world. We’re living in the country that works one of the most hours per person in the world and has severe time poverty and you’re confused why people are trying to take shortcuts? You’d have to be insane or unemployed not to take every time related advantage that doesn’t spoil your own experience in a game that soaks them up like nothing. Being lazy has no discrimination for which it strikes, whether it’s elites afking in bg’s for High War Lord titles or Johnny McNoob /afking in the raid finder

 

7)People are ******es in the LFD

 

This is the only argument I particularly agree with, it is true that anonymity breeds people to make actions that may have not made in a different situation. Blizzard has given us a tool to deal with it; it’s called the vote kick. If you DO NOT abuse the vote kick, it is available almost every time you’ll ever need it. The majority of incidents that I’ve personally witnessed have been people taking someone’s words to seriously or someone “ninjaing” something. Now, for the latter it’s impossible to ninja in this game, I need you to understand that. “Ninjaing” for the sake of this argument is taking something that didn’t belong to you, entering into a rolling chance with someone when both parties legitimately want an item is not stealing. If someone has the same armour class or item proficiency, then casually speak to them in public or private to get their intentions, you’d be shocked in how people are civil once you make that communication leap and instead of assuming. For the attitude part, that is everyone’s job to try and keep a cool head. If you see people fighting over something in game, first off don’t make it worse by saying who’s right and who’s wrong. Secondly try and defuse the situation, I’ve been able to do this a few times or at least get to the point where everyone agrees it’s best to move on but be silent. Lastly, if else fails, Blizzard has given us the vote kick for these types of measures, use accordingly though or be warned it may not be there when you require it.

[savagepotato]

He's entitled to his own opinion, you can't say he isn't. I'm gonna post something below for you to attack, why don't you pick on someone bigger then you

 

Come at me bro!

 

Uh did you just try to go internet tough guy? Or are you just here because reddit is protesting sopa right now?

 

Your pro-lfd points are not needs either.

 

You do not NEED a cross server tool to find a group, you are not OWED anything by the game or the developers. All there are are pro's and cons.

 

For you the pro's outweigh the cons, that is your opinion, something you fail to see. All there is in the matter is opinion, and at the moment the developer shares the opinion that the con's outweigh.

 

I hope this remains the case.

[Touchbass]

Uh did you just try to go internet tough guy? Or are you just here because reddit is protesting sopa right now?

 

Your pro-lfd points are not needs either.

 

You do not NEED a cross server tool to find a group, you are not OWED anything by the game or the developers. All there are are pro's and cons.

 

For you the pro's outweigh the cons, that is your opinion, something you fail to see. All there is in the matter is opinion, and at the moment the developer shares the opinion that the con's outweigh.

 

I hope this remains the case.

 

Yes we are owed, every successful company out in the market place believes they OWE something to the customer. It doesn't matter if that thinking is good/bad, it doesn't make it untrue. I have more faith in Apple then I do of Potato's school of business.

 

Btw I love you pick on easy to defuse points but yet stay clear of mine

[SkySavage]

Adding in a +1 for same server LFD. Sure I can get the reasons for cross server not being popular but there isn't a good reason not to have same server LFD.

 

General chat arguments spawned from LFG spam don't build a community, it just makes it annoying.

 

Let players play the game. Don't make them play "Chat-text Time on a Space Station" if they don't want to. I'm a good tank because I play well not because I spent time typing millions of things in party chat to build my 'cred' or milking other people's ego's. I'm a tank not a lawyer.

[DarthKhaos]

Yes, it'd be easier to see that there isn't a group available. Everyone flagging themselves won't change the leveling ratio's and lack of of players entirely in some roles on some servers. Not including Dual spec prevents healers like me from joining the healing queue and puts me right in the dps queue ... it's kinda sad as I don't like to DPS.

You are wither deliberately dodging the point/topic or are just blinded by the fact you want the system to match the group for you automatically.

[Touchbass]

You are wither deliberately dodging the point/topic or are just blinded by the fact you want the system to match the group for you automatically.

 

 

Can we not do this without childish remarks? Because you don't agree me does not mean something is wrong with me and vice versa goes for you mate.

 

Now to the topic off hand, the premise is flawed. If everyone who was appropriate level labeled themselves as either a tank/healer or dps they'd be an astronomical amount of players that are DPS. So say 10 tanks, 45 dps and 15 healers as random numbers. A maximum of 10 groups can be filled that leaves 15 dps out in the cold with 5 healers. Your system does nothing for those who are left out. The majority of them just plainly give up waiting and do something else. How would your system serve them? Should we just forget about them? Am I missing something as you charge, i'm willing to listen if there is a way to ensure everybody gets a slice of the pie

[savagepotato]

Yes we are owed, every successful company out in the market place believes they OWE something to the customer. It doesn't matter if that thinking is good/bad, it doesn't make it untrue. I have more faith in Apple then I do of Potato's school of business.

 

Btw I love you pick on easy to defuse points but yet stay clear of mine

 

First of all all of your points are basically easy to sum up.

 

You take a point and say no your opinion is wrong because in my observation it wasn't X it was Y.

 

All you are doing is substituting your point of view for the other. As an example you claim to refute the notion that the dungeon finder tool degraded WoW because it brought you back to the game. and therefore enhanced it in your view.

 

Yet you have no more actual proof than you place the burden on others to provide. You are in a nutshell saying no you are wrong because this is my opinion and it's right. Other people have observed the complete opposite to what you have in many situations. But there is always someone like you that will come in swinging their version of things as the real truth.

 

You haven't refuted a single thing, just put forth a differing point of view. One that has been devised to support your agenda.

Edited January 18, 2012 by savagepotato

[Klondeikbar]

Dungeon Finder is not needed at this time and it's a stupid idea anyways. How hard is it for you to socialize or be in a guild and ask in voice chat / guild chat? Really, are you that lazy that you can't take your hands off that cheeseburger to type something out, you would rather just click a button right? Pffftt

 

Yes...yes I would rather click a button than type "LFG" in general chat for an hour. Is that really so ridiculous?

[Touchbass]

First of all all of your points are basically easy to sum up.

 

You take a point and say no your opinion is wrong because in my observation it wasn't X it was Y.

 

All you are doing is substituting your point of view for the other. As an example you claim to refute the notion that the dungeon finder tool degraded the community because it brought you back to the game. and therefore enhanced it in your view.

 

Yet you have no more actual proof than you place the burden on others to provide. You are in a nutshell saying no you are wrong because this is my opinion and it's right. Other people have observed the complete opposite to what you have in many situations. But there is always someone like you that will come in swinging their version of things as the real truth.

 

You haven't refuted a single thing, just put forth a differing point of view.

 

My observations? People are claiming the entire game doesn't need a LFD when certain servers/factions are desolate. That is a fact.

 

People try and propose that LFD destroyed the community, I present the fact that it didn't. Many more people came back to WoW for the LFD feature then those who left it, that is the only FACT that can be objectively looked at. Your proposals of otherwise are just conjecture.

 

The problem is I keep stating evidence that you just ignore, I really can't do more with you if you won't adhere to basic principles of logic. Hell you'd rather see the game burn then help your felllow players

 

EDIT: Can you give many ANY evidence that the LFD feature is a bad overall idea?

Edited January 18, 2012 by Touchbass

[Moricthian]

The inserver PvP que system works perfectly and it has yet to destroy the community. Implementing a similar design for flashpoints will have a similar effect on the community...none!

 

People who argue against a que system for flashpoints are ignore or refusing to face the above fact.