Dungeon Finder Needed Badly.

[savagepotato]

Maybe next time don't make such bold (and untenable) assertions and you won't have to retcon so hard.

 

 

 

I've actually been pretty consistent in my statements. No, I don't have any hard evidence to go on - I've never claimed such. I've not even tried (and failed spectacularly) to argue from authority. What I did is claim that you have nothing other than to keep on repeating the same thing after its already been addressed over and over ad nauseam. When you make a claim (like 'LFD ruins communities') you kind of have to respond to people who make a good faith effort to reply to that claim with something other than 'yuh-huh! does so!!' and a simple repetition of the claim.

 

Sorry this has been so trying for you.

 

You want to talk about repetition?

 

Look at the people on your side of the argument first. Time and time again people outline the ways in which the cross server tool affects the game for them, to the degree of Bioware agreeing with it. and time and time again the people crying for a cross server tool come in and say "nope doesn't affect you in any way, I want my tool"

 

You want to talk about frustration over repetition? People living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

 

You cannot prove it doesn't destroy communities. Simple as that.

Edited January 18, 2012 by savagepotato

[Ganelon]

Risks have to be taken in the name of originality.

 

Are you still talking about the grouping solution for SW:ToR when you say this? How is a solution that is about eight years old original and risky? Especially when that solution has already been proven to be inferior to more recent methods.

 

I mean, I'm all for original things, but refusing something just because that's the way WoW does it is not a valid argument. I get it that some people don't like WoW, but to dismiss that they did a lot of things right is idiotic.

 

And I mean, at some point WoW's answer to finding a group was exactly what we have now in SW:ToR. Shouldn't we all be against LFG channels because of that?

[Reecelol]

 

This type of system is in place in the game. The problem is people refuse to use it because for some odd reason if they can't get a system to do EVERYTHING for them

 

kinda like how they gave you companions to do all your crafting/gathering for you? Y SO LAZY

[savagepotato]

Are you still talking about the grouping solution for SW:ToR when you say this? How is a solution that is about eight years old original and risky? Especially when that solution has already been proven to be inferior to more recent methods.

 

I mean, I'm all for original things, but refusing something just because that's the way WoW does it is not a valid argument. I get it that some people don't like WoW, but to dismiss that they did a lot of things right is idiotic.

 

And I mean, at some point WoW's answer to finding a group was exactly what we have now in SW:ToR. Shouldn't we all be against LFG channels because of that?

 

What is in game now is not a perfect solution. I dismiss the solution in place in WoW because it sucks in WoW, lots of other people feel exactly the same way.

Edited January 18, 2012 by savagepotato

[Ganelon]

But they skiped a jump and that is what BioWare is using. See below.

 

No, they didn't! Go check WoW's implementation of the LFG interface at the time of patch 2.0.1 (TBC). And it still wasn't good enough.

 

This is a clear case of Bioware not profiting from the experience and past lessons of the genre.

[savagepotato]

No, they didn't! Go check WoW's implementation of the LFG interface at the time of patch 2.0.1 (TBC). And it still wasn't good enough.

 

This is a clear case of Bioware not profiting from the experience and past lessons of the genre.

 

I think that's part of the point.

 

Nothing is ever going to be good enough for some people until you are instantly ported to and from your dungeon in seconds. On a whim, 24 hours a day, and can finish that dungeon in 15 minutes.

 

That is the progression of exactly what happened in WoW which some people still like to deny citing there being no "proof". The current WoW dungeon finder is the ultimate evolution of how to cater to a lazy and impatient player base. And worse yet actively dumb them down and make them progressively more and more demanding for ever increasing automation.

 

People complain about absolutely everything in an MMO that takes time these days. I am personally sick of it. People whine about the travelling, they whine about finding a group, they whine even if a forum post is too long for their gold fish like attention span.

 

Catering to impatience is not the direction I want a game to go. If it means it is not a mega success like WoW I am more than okay with that. Change has to be forced on people sometimes.

Edited January 18, 2012 by savagepotato

[Sendrel]

Quoting in its entirety before you edit the good stuff. Seriously, just take 5 minutes and proofread before you hit 'Post'.

 

You want to talk about repetition?

 

Look at the people on your side of the argument first. Time and time again people outline the ways in which the cross server tool affects the game for them, to the degree of Bioware agreeing with it. and time and time again the people crying for a cross server tool come in and say "nope doesn't affect you in any way, I want my tool"

 

I'll run you through a typical LFD thread from my perspective:

 

Anti-LFD Guy 1: LFD sucks! It destroys communities!

 

Pro-LFD Guy: How does it 'destroy communities?

 

Anti-LFD Guy 1: It forces people to sit around a hub, not venturing out into the world, promotes ninja's, destroys accountability and ruins social networking! Also, I caught it looking lewdly at my dog.

 

Pro-LFD Guy: Actually, a queue-style LFD system makes it possible to leave the central hub as you're no longer tied to a regional chat system in order to get a group.

 

As for ninja'ing, its a relatively painless procedure to add in a couple components to the loot roll system to ensure that tanks can't roll against casters for gear.

 

And accountability? Seriously? You're not accountable for your actions as it is. LFD doesn't destroy accountability, the internet does. Blacklists and servers policing themselves are largely myths and entirely anecdotal no matter how you slice it. For every instance you can claim of someone being successfully blacklisted, I can come with 20 wherein the offending party just laughed it off and went on playing the game with absolutely no repercussions for 'bad behavior'. Not to mention /ignore is a better tool for never having to group with people you don't like ever again.

 

Anti-LFD Guy 1: ...

 

Anti-LFD Guy 2: LFD sucks! It destroys communities!

 

Pro-LFD Guy: Seriously!?!?

 

 

So yeah, you'll pardon me if I take your assertion that 'you do it too!!1!' with a grain of salt.

 

You cannot prove it doesn't destroy communities. Simple as that.

 

Did you just seriously ask me to prove a negative?

[Zandog]

hehehe ^ funny sh*t

[savagepotato]

Quoting in its entirety before you edit the good stuff. Seriously, just take 5 minutes and proofread before you hit 'Post'.

 

 

 

I'll run you through a typical LFD thread from my perspective:

 

 

 

 

So yeah, you'll pardon me if I take your assertion that 'you do it too!!1!' with a grain of salt.

 

 

 

Did you just seriously ask me to prove a negative?

 

Your little fantasy exchange there is more than just a little creative in painting yourself as the hero of the situation don't you think?

 

Look at the evidence in front of you. Every step of the way in WoW that they tried these different evolution's of the dungeon finder things stayed the same and in some cases even got harder, such as the burning crusade.

 

Yet, it wasn't until it went full auto cross server that things started to really deteriorate. You are arguing against something that people have gone out and experienced first hand. Basically you are slapping them in the face in the process and calling them stupid, and what do you expect from that exactly?

 

It has been stated several times by multiple people that it changes the focus of development. When the dungeon model becomes four random strangers thrown together who wish to be able to get it done in 15 minutes, the content must be de-tuned to support this. It was in WoW, it would be here, there isn't even a shred of doubt about it.

 

It has been cited that when Cataclysm released and hard content was introduced again, the populace could not cope with it, and proceeded to complain and cancel subs in numbers that forced Blizzard to dumb it back down. Despite the fact it has been argued they didn't dumb it back down, this has always been a lie to support the pro-lfd position.

 

People observed the negatives of LFD style groups first hand. I see so many people come in and echo my observations it's stupid. Groups where the only thing ever said is gogogogo, ninjas that drop after the first boss and getting what they need with no possible repercussions. Despite the fact that community policing has been argued to be a myth, this is again a lie perpetuated to support the pro-lfd position. I have personally used community policing practices, it works very well thank you.

 

All these things get said and they get trivialized and outright denied by pro-lfd proponents endlessly. As I said above you are slapping people in the face and essentially calling them stupid, and expecting a rewarding discussion to stem from that. Good luck with your impossible mission.

[Pvtcarnage]

I think that's part of the point.

 

Nothing is ever going to be good enough for some people until you are instantly ported to and from your dungeon in seconds. On a whim, 24 hours a day, and can finish that dungeon in 15 minutes.

 

That is the progression of exactly what happened in WoW which some people still like to deny citing there being no "proof". The current WoW dungeon finder is the ultimate evolution of how to cater to a lazy and impatient player base. And worse yet actively dumb them down and make them progressively more and more demanding for ever increasing automation.

 

People complain about absolutely everything in an MMO that takes time these days. I am personally sick of it. People whine about the travelling, they whine about finding a group, they whine even if a forum post is too long for their gold fish like attention span.

 

Catering to impatience is not the direction I want a game to go. If it means it is not a mega success like WoW I am more than okay with that. Change has to be forced on people sometimes.

 

Cry some more, your needs and likes are not the same as others and insulting them for that only makes you look short sighted and selfish.

[Souki]

my opinion on all of this: this game NEEDS a flashpoint finder.

 

I like pvp but.. not that much. I prever PVE.

 

The only way to fully gear yourself up right now, is with pvp.

Raiding can be a bit hard for some people. Since i dont see a server forum. For guild to recruit.

 

Ive done some crafting, quests and flashpoints lvl 50. Its way not enough.

 

 

-Finding people for dungeons in the general takes SO much time.

-When im bored of questing. Id like a way to have my fun NOW. ( pvp lovers can with the warzone finder)

-This will not destroy community if its not cross server.

 

 

 

right now my problem is that i HAVE to stay in the fleet to spam the general for hours because theres no LFG channel. The LFG tool.. for me is useless. Ive never found a group with that.

 

I find myself wasting my time not having fun spamming to find a group.

 

 

 

Anyway. Its a great game. I just wanted to tell what was the issue im having so far.

 

 

sorry for my poor english.

[savagepotato]

Cry some more, your needs and likes are not the same as others and insulting them for that only makes you look short sighted and selfish.

 

You know it reminds me of pen and paper games.

 

I remember playing as a teenager. We had this one really awesome dungeon master (at the time I thought he was just stingy and boring). He would never allow an anything goes atmosphere. He stuck to the rules made people work for what they got, and at the time I took him for granted because I was only thinking of my own instant gratification.

 

Thinking back we would play with other lesser dungeon masters, and things would turn into a ridiculous free for all with people doing asinine things they should never even be able to do, which seemed fun at the time, but it was just total lowest common denominator wish fulfillment stupidity and everyone always walked away feeling like they just wasted a lot of time.

 

I liken it a lot to the instant gratification with modern MMO's when I think of it. The old games were so much more rewarding but slowly the cancer of the lowest common denominator took over and made them bland.

 

If there is no substance and structure to a game everything is trivial. That's one of the biggest problems with mmo's today. That the developers get absolutely lost chasing around the whims of the impatient and the game itself falls by the wayside. You could argue that it doesn't have to be this way, that you can have a compelling and convenient game. But history has proven that just doesn't happen. Chasing around the convenience demands of the lowest common denominator sucks. Period.

 

Lines have to be drawn. The answer should be if the game doesn't fit your needs don't play it, play something that does. Not to complain til you bend the game to your will.

Edited January 18, 2012 by savagepotato

[Sendrel]

Look at the evidence in front of you. Every step of the way in WoW that they tried these different evolution's of the dungeon finder things stayed the same and in some cases even got harder, such as the burning crusade.

 

Yet, it wasn't until it went full auto cross server that things started to really deteriorate. You are arguing against something that people have gone out and experienced first hand. Basically you are slapping them in the face in the process and calling them stupid, and what do you expect from that exactly?

 

It has been stated several times by multiple people that it changes the focus of development. When the dungeon model becomes four random strangers thrown together who wish to be able to get it done in 15 minutes, the content must be de-tuned to support this. It was in WoW, it would be here, there isn't even a shred of doubt about it.

 

It has been cited that when Cataclysm released and hard content was introduced again, the populace could not cope with it, and proceeded to complain and cancel subs in numbers that forced Blizzard to dumb it back down. Despite the fact it has been argued they didn't dumb it back down, this has always been a lie to support the pro-lfd position.

 

Yep, the content got dumbed down. The five man content. The raid game is still widely acknowledged as among the most difficult and challenging in the genre, if you actually try the challenging parts.

 

So, a couple things to go along with that.

 

It'd be just as easy to argue that the 5 man content was trivial to begin with, dumbing it down a little bit more only makes it more accessible. And here's the thing about that: I'd agree with you that its a pretty craptacular move if the five mans were the pinnacle of progression. They're not, raiding is in WoW. You can argue against raiding being at the top of the food chain in MMO's (and I think that'd be a sweet discussion to take part in), but you can't really argue that that's not the case now in WoW.

 

So, similarly in TOR, flashpoints aren't the pinnacle of progression. Or at least I don't think they're meant to be. If (and its a big 'if' given my next point), you have to dumb them down a bit in the name of accessibility, that's probably ok as long as it retains subs longer than they would have otherwise without an LFD. I'm not sure how something that makes up so small a percentage of the actual game can single-handedly 'destroy the community' though.

 

Secondly, the Flashpoints aren't difficult as is. Parts of them are (or were, haven't kept up with the entirety of the patch notes and haven't been able to log in to check) buggy. But bug fixes shouldn't be confused with a nerfbat.

 

The bottom line in my experience is that people who can't complete the content or have no expectation of being able to see the content are more likely to not renew their sub. If you have to dumb down the flashpoints - which is debatable in TOR - to get some sub retention, I don't think that's an unfair tradeoff given that its not even the pointy tip of the progression spear.

[dakalro]

Sorry, I should rephrase that, from my experience and a general conses among people I talk to, a local server lfd would be great, a cross server one wouldn't be, and instead of just not using it, I would like to add my input so that a tool that I would use, and will server the purpose of there, might come out of this instead of more stuff I wouldn't.

 

Should we also let imperial and republic group freely? I have friends who are republic that I can't group with because my other group of friends chose imperial, and we're both on the same server.

 

I don't know any high demand roles that have issues finding groups it takes me 10 seconds to get a group as a tank, without this super fast group finder deluxe. While I agree that some dps might have a faster time because of this others will have a slower time. As I have stated before the general group experience I have had with the LFD tool as a tank has not been the most pleasant, random pugs on server currently have all been very pleasant. Random pugs on server before the LFD tool in wow were 99% pleasant, occasionally there were bad apples.

 

I agree that there might be times where groups can not be formed at certain levels but I think that this could be addressed while still giving preference to local server over cross server, and I see no reason to have cross server at level 50 because of this.

 

Rose tainted glasses. WoW PUGs were as bad from LFG channel as they were from LFD tool. The only thing that spoiled people was cross server LFD because they could bail without fear of ever meeting the other people again.

 

On a same server LFD there's no difference from using chat, you're just not stuck in Fleet, holding your ....... I want to go do something on some planet, not afk in town, I can do that easilly in WoW.

[DarthKhaos]

kinda like how they gave you companions to do all your crafting/gathering for you? Y SO LAZY

You do notice it takes a lot longer to craft 1 item in this game than in WoW? You lose the ability to have that character assist you out in the world where YOU have to work harder.

 

I think that's part of the point.

 

Nothing is ever going to be good enough for some people until you are instantly ported to and from your dungeon in seconds. On a whim, 24 hours a day, and can finish that dungeon in 15 minutes.

 

That is the progression of exactly what happened in WoW which some people still like to deny citing there being no "proof". The current WoW dungeon finder is the ultimate evolution of how to cater to a lazy and impatient player base. And worse yet actively dumb them down and make them progressively more and more demanding for ever increasing automation.

 

People complain about absolutely everything in an MMO that takes time these days. I am personally sick of it. People whine about the travelling, they whine about finding a group, they whine even if a forum post is too long for their gold fish like attention span.

 

Catering to impatience is not the direction I want a game to go. If it means it is not a mega success like WoW I am more than okay with that. Change has to be forced on people sometimes.

Exactly. It's not about finding people it's about not having to do it themselves. The current system can use some sprucing up but people have to use it. I garantee you if everyone who is looking for a group flag themselves LFG and edits the comment to say "Tank LFG Foundry" or something or a group leader places "Group LFM 2DPS BT Hard Mode" and people open up the search window and look for the flashpoint they want they would find groups easier. However they want a LFG version of an "I.W.I.N." button.

 

my opinion on all of this: this game NEEDS a flashpoint finder.

See above.

[Graburr]

This is a clear case of Bioware not profiting from the experience and past lessons of the genre.

 

first of all, TWO games that have x-server functionality is hardly a "lesson of the genre".

 

as savagepotato said, it's how you train your players. chat works absolutely fine in lotro and other games (I'm not saying it's the best solution there is, but it works).

another thing is blizzard is good at refining other people's ideas, but very bad coming up with something themselves. before their LFG-tool there were meeting stones, that went through some many iterations it's mind-boggling - especially when they came up with stuff that OBVIOUSLY were a bad idea on paper already (example? at one point meeting stones could only be used if you were in the level range of the instance) or take AV. or tol barad. or DF which is still not "fixed", else they wouldn't have to tune it all the time - not enough tanks? why could that be....?!

 

x-shard DF does one thing, and one thing only: it increases the probability to find a group, while it removes complete control over the group creation.(unless you go back to square 1 and use chat again). it's practically the other extreme to the current situation.

 

with all the screams here, most people miss the point that the rest just wants a better solution to find a group - not a DF, not cross-shard, not a lazy one-button solution. the best of both worlds.

 

and least of all, just because it's used in a successful game does not mean it's a gift of god. or do people really think justin bieber makes better music because he sells a lot of records?

 

 

I'm curious what 'reality' you live in where anecdote equals proven, verifiable fact. Which kinda gets me back to my original point about the anti-LFD crusaders. Just keep repeating it long enough and people will lose the will to respond after a while.

 

I've seen this threads in abundance (in rift and now here), but funny enough whenever there are valid points they are simply ignored.

 

as for proof, there are enough scientific studies that show peoples behavior changes with anonymity (usually for the worse). heck, you should know that already unless you stumbled on the internet 2 days ago. x-shard is one additional layer of anonymity, which will have the corresponding effect.

 

also, and that's one "feature" overlooked (which I posted in at LEAST three other threads, so much for arguments against x-shard): faceroll content.

if the system creates the group for you, the content this group does HAS to be easy enough the worst combination of matchup can do it. you can't have people spend an hour in an instance and don't get "rewarded", else they might complain on the forums or worse, stop subbing!

and that's where wow's DF comes in, it completely removes control over the group creation process (in which undergeared players/idiots are filtered out) for the sake of a faster queue and an easy instance.

there is a reason trion made master-mode dungeons not available via DF.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Graburr

[Touchbass]

first of all, TWO games that have x-server functionality is hardly a "lesson of the genre".

 

as savagepotato said, it's how you train your players. chat works absolutely fine in lotro and other games (I'm not saying it's the best solution there is, but it works).

another thing is blizzard is good at refining other people's ideas, but very bad coming up with something themselves. before their LFG-tool there were meeting stones, that went through some many iterations it's mind-boggling - especially when they came up with stuff that OBVIOUSLY were a bad idea on paper already (example? at one point meeting stones could only be used if you were in the level range of the instance) or take AV. or tol barad. or DF which is still not "fixed", else they wouldn't have to tune it all the time - not enough tanks? why could that be....?!

 

I don't think you are being fair on Blizzard, not only can Blizzard refine ideas but they can create their own. Blizzard made those meeting stones with the expressed purpose of helping level appropriate groups, not for high level members to port other people around with ease. I know hindsight makes it look stupid as if it was a colossal failure, it does not mean it was a poor idea or implementation. I don't undersand the last portion of your point there, come again please

 

x-shard DF does one thing, and one thing only: it increases the probability to find a group, while it removes complete control over the group creation.(unless you go back to square 1 and use chat again). it's practically the other extreme to the current situation.

with all the screams here, most people miss the point that the rest just wants a better solution to find a group - not a DF, not cross-shard, not a lazy one-button solution. the best of both worlds. and least of all, just because it's used in a successful game does not mean it's a gift of god. or do people really think justin bieber makes better music because he sells a lot of records?

 

Of course we want a working solution, nobody is demanding a LFD for the sole purpose of a LFD. We want access to content and so far it's the prescribed method that works. All solutions server bound DO NOT work a chunk of the player base which BW needs to obtain to keep the game going to best of it's ability. Selling more records may not inherently make him a better musician but selling more records buys him the vocal coaches, music production equipment and all the stage presence money can buy to make an actually entertaining show.

 

 

I've seen this threads in abundance (in rift and now here), but funny enough whenever there are valid points they are simply ignored. as for proof, there are enough scientific studies that show peoples behavior changes with anonymity (usually for the worse). heck, you should know that already unless you stumbled on the internet 2 days ago. x-shard is one additional layer of anonymity, which will have the corresponding effect.

also, and that's one "feature" overlooked (which I posted in at LEAST three other threads, so much for arguments against x-shard): faceroll content.

if the system creates the group for you, the content this group does HAS to be easy enough the worst combination of matchup can do it. you can't have people spend an hour in an instance and don't get "rewarded", else they might complain on the forums or worse, stop subbing!

and that's where wow's DF comes in, it completely removes control over the group creation process (in which undergeared players/idiots are filtered out) for the sake of a faster queue and an easy instance.

there is a reason trion made master-mode dungeons not available via DF.

 

There are no scientific studies that show people are more likely to be jerks in the Dungeon Finder then in a real life environment., if there are I'd like to read them! Joking aside, I don't know how much more of a jerk being annoymous in LFD makes you, if any. I have a hard time believing people are perfect angels that change into foul mouth curs once they enter the LFD. The majority of my dungeon finder experiences in WoW are above average, with the odd few cases of someone having a bad day, in almost every case not waiting an additional 20-30 minutes to find a group has overidden my feeling of contempt for that person

 

The second part here you are clearly fabricating things to make your side of the argument look good. No you do not have to make it to the lowest common denominator. When Cata launched, WoW's heroics were painfully difficult for a vast majority of LFD pugs and wipes and disbands were common all the time on certain fights. After sufficient time the LFD was buffed so the rest of the players could go through while still allowing the people who wanted an challenge initially to have it. Everyone won.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Touchbass

[Touchbass]

But they skiped a jump and that is what BioWare is using. See below.

 

This type of system is in place in the game. The problem is people refuse to use it because for some odd reason if they can't get a system to do EVERYTHING for them they'll go back to stage 1 which is spam General LFG.

 

Even in the best system (be it a fully automated system or not all a matter of perspective) it will NOT work if it is NOT used.

 

Go on your server right now and bring it up, search for LFG and you'll see maybe 5 people using it.

 

 

People don't use the current system cause it doesn't work. Bioware made the genious decision of making 2 DPS per group instead of 3 and not allowing Dual Spec for Heals/tank. *** what they thinking? People got tired of sitting around all day and spamming and said screw it, why do you think some servers are implementing server wide chats as a recommended remedy?

 

You think people are lazy, I know people who have searched actively for over an hour with no responses. If no one is available, no one is available, no amount of refined tools can fix that except a LFD feature. It's coming, trust me on that, just when is the question not if.

[Touchbass]

kinda like how they gave you companions to do all your crafting/gathering for you? Y SO LAZY

 

Haha, I enjoy a good quip

[Pvtcarnage]

You know it reminds me of pen and paper games.

 

I remember playing as a teenager. We had this one really awesome dungeon master (at the time I thought he was just stingy and boring). He would never allow an anything goes atmosphere. He stuck to the rules made people work for what they got, and at the time I took him for granted because I was only thinking of my own instant gratification.

 

Thinking back we would play with other lesser dungeon masters, and things would turn into a ridiculous free for all with people doing asinine things they should never even be able to do, which seemed fun at the time, but it was just total lowest common denominator wish fulfillment stupidity and everyone always walked away feeling like they just wasted a lot of time.

 

I liken it a lot to the instant gratification with modern MMO's when I think of it. The old games were so much more rewarding but slowly the cancer of the lowest common denominator took over and made them bland.

 

If there is no substance and structure to a game everything is trivial. That's one of the biggest problems with mmo's today. That the developers get absolutely lost chasing around the whims of the impatient and the game itself falls by the wayside. You could argue that it doesn't have to be this way, that you can have a compelling and convenient game. But history has proven that just doesn't happen. Chasing around the convenience demands of the lowest common denominator sucks. Period.

 

Lines have to be drawn. The answer should be if the game doesn't fit your needs don't play it, play something that does. Not to complain til you bend the game to your will.

 

Apples and oranges.... please insert another quarter and try again

[Touchbass]

What is in game now is not a perfect solution. I dismiss the solution in place in WoW because it sucks in WoW, lots of other people feel exactly the same way.

 

Lots of people feel the current Canadian/American party in power is bad for the country, lots of people feel prejedice against woman in the third world is a good thing, what is your point? Actually I'll play along with you, more people like the LFD then those who don't, lets compare the number of people who joined with the conjunction of LFD then those who left at that exact point. LFD brought me and countless others back to WoW and has stabalized a lot of servers. LFD has been a blessing for WoW and salvaged a great game for it's time.

 

You remind me of the kid who orders chocolate ice cream from the vendor and gets upset cause he doesn't like chocolate ice cream. If you don't like chocolate ice cream, use the vanilla flavoured way of finding groups.

[Touchbass]

Apples and oranges.... please insert another quarter and try again

 

I like his self gratifying point of lines have to be drawn

[GarbonzotheDude]

first of all, TWO games that have x-server functionality is hardly a "lesson of the genre".

 

as savagepotato said, it's how you train your players. chat works absolutely fine in lotro and other games (I'm not saying it's the best solution there is, but it works).

another thing is blizzard is good at refining other people's ideas, but very bad coming up with something themselves. .

 

How is that even a comparison? First of all lotro has an actually pretty nifty lfg feature and secondly they have a server wide channel that people use to form groups that while it was player created most are aware due to the knowledge being available in several locations such as amongst the forums. Plus it was agreed upon by the players that the same channel would be used per server.

 

Neither of which this game has partly due to poor implementation on BW's part and no community agreement that I can see on these forums of how to try and handle it across the board since BW has done such a poor job at it so far.

 

Not to mention how much content was changed to being soloable due to some of the same complaints you see popping up in this game. Hell, some would even argue that was one of the things that damaged retention to the game in the first place. Was Turbine dragging their feet on handling grouping woes especially considering how much of the epic quests used to be group content.

[Touchbass]

Not to mention how much content was changed to being soloable due to some of the same complaints you see popping up in this game. Hell, some would even argue that was one of the things that damaged retention to the game in the first place. Was Turbine dragging their feet on handling grouping woes especially considering how much of the epic quests used to be group content.

 

Yeah, the massive influx of group quests to this game while leveling has to be one the biggest design flaws yet to be seen for a lot of people. We're still in the honeymoon phase but once this game matures those things are going to be a bane for a lot of people. Hell I see people spamming for the same group quests over the duration of a 3-4 hour gaming session on Tatoonie.

[JeremyDale]

 

That being said, our design team doesn't philosophically believe that cross-server Flashpoints are good for the game at this stage in the game's lifespan. There is huge social pressure to not be a jerk that goes away when the odds that you will never see these people again is high. I'm not saying never - there may come a time in the future where we reevaluate this - but at least in the short term, we believe this will cause more damage to the community than good.[/color]"

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1502055#edit1502055

 

lol....I hope the devs meant this as a joke. If they really think a video community represents a "huge social pressure to not be a jerk" then they are high on some illegal substance.

 

Cross-server flash points are a good thing, and will cause absolutely NO harm what so ever to the community.

 

If friends want to group up on the same server there is nothing stopping them, and no one who doesn't want to use a LFG system is being forced to. The only result adding a cross-server LFG system will do is let players who are having a hard time putting groups together put a group together - and that is a GOOD thing people.

 

This entire argument that adding a LFG system takes away from the community or limits a person's desire to make friends is utterly ridiculous.