Assassin Deception Spec significantly weaker per level than other classes?

[svalpatic]

I'm 43 on Voss and have been deception with Khem Val the entire time. While I wouldn't complain about a buff to the spec I feel like a dps boost would make it faceroll easy, similar to mercenary. I like that I have to use many different abilities. I like that I have to take time to consider how I will approach a group before I engage it and I like that stealth allows me to set up fights exactly how I want. My mercenary steamrolls everything in front of him spamming only 3-4 abilities, it was fun for the first few levels but the lack of challenge is making it a boring class to play.

 

I died on boss fights in the lower levels before I realized I could reset them and begin from stealth. Since then I've found most of them to be challenging but not overly so. I take advantage of the many interrupts we have and pay close attention to procs and use abilities when they will be most effective. These are fundamentals for leveling with a deception spec and ignoring these elements of gameplay will prevent you from killing level appropriate bosses. This isn't a class you can simply mash buttons with and win.

 

I think many of the people who complain about deception spec assassin are expecting it to be as easy as some other classes and while it can be as effective as other classes it does require more attention and thus will never feel as easy.

[FubarSmurf]

I'm level 48ish, deception specced, and the only two quests I've had real trouble with was the class quest (Zash) and Voss (finding source of darkness) quest. Granted, it's hard to solo a gold mob with silver mobs attached but questing in general has been relatively easy (very few deaths).

 

For PVE:

- Use your healer companion with the latest gear (my Talos is running on all blues, not even mods or purps yet)

- Learn to use all CC/interrupt skills well. I think we have about 5 of them if you include the 8 second tornado skill

- Learn to use stealth correctly, it could give you significant opening advantages in mob fights

- Someone mentioned earlier but use your companion to initiate combat first (yeah they'll get owned but it buys you quite a bit of time to crit on enemies)

 

For PVP:

- I dunno why some people complain so much about how weak assassins are in PVP. I haven't had any trouble yet dealing out crits and owning 2v1 or even 3v1 with my healer companion up. This includes getting ganked by random jedi trolling around the map looking for targets.

 

Biggest issue I've seen with other assassin players: Idiots who gear up for deception spec with endurance mods...some players don't have any crit or surge rating mods to their gear and are whining about their DPS...granted I made the same mistake until level 30 or so, but the right gear can make all the difference. Dunno why Deception assassins needs 14K HP at level 40ish but crit % is like 15 or less.

[Zeppelin]

Yeah, there are some fights you have to run around and kite or blow every cooldown... but I've had to do the same exact thing on other classes at times too.

[punman]

Class is fine, problems are with the players.

 

I seriously hope you don't expect to faceroll through content spamming Maul without intelligently using all your abilities, and YES MAYBE dying once or twice on a Class Quest Boss to figure out which of his/her abilities are more important to interrupt.

 

If you want the game handed to you on a platter without putting some thought into it, go play Farmville, and leave the big boy games alone for a while.

 

I leveled with Khem to 46 then Xalek to 50 (because he was easier to gear with my hand-me-downs) and now I have a fully epic Talos, too, for heals.

 

Sorry to be harsh, but I had problems with exactly two fights in the entire game, and those of you who are 50 probably know which two I'm talking about. They're supposed to be hard. Deal with it.

[ripamorame]

Tip use talos and you might be able to do your entire story countless times i had to recruit my juggernaut friend and he said countless times this is much harder for a class like you and countless times i was up against 2 elites big 6 man groups and corellia was one of the hardest zones to do when you take out thanatons base it was very very difficult to solo.

[Caprodas]

To those having the issues

Killing Darth Zash

I solo'd her in darkness spec last night at lv 29 then went to Taris and got the lv 33 pet, solo without stims or healpacks. I have used, up till now, only Khem. What issues did you have with the fight?

[DarthNorik]

Level 50, tldr

 

Use dark charge = problem solved.

[OdnaZvezda]

I've leveled two deception Assassins to 50(west coast and east coast servers. east coast had no queue when I started on launch day and I'm west coast).

 

The first one I leveled with Khem until Xalek joined me and while I never really felt underpowered, I hated having to Seethe for almost the full duration to get my companion back to full health. (Protip, dismiss & resummon or mount/dismount to insta heal them). I did have a bit of trouble with the Avatar of Sel-Makor, and I still haven't finished my class quest on the east coast server)

 

The second time through, I stuck with Talos as soon as he joined and the only fights I have trouble with now are pairs of elites or 3+ strong mobs. I rarely have to Seethe after combat for more than a couple seconds. It took one attempt to finish the class quest solo. Also, there's a Heroic 2+ quest on Belsavis at the Imperial Listening Station(I think that's what it was called) with a Champion difficulty Jedi with 70k+ health that was soloable using Talos.

 

I don't feel underpowered, but my only experience outside Assassin is a level 25 healing specced Operative.

 

Things to keep in mind(for soloing):

 

CC is important. Mind Trap on a strong/elite before the fight begins and you should be done with the rest of the group before Mind Trap breaks. Does not apply for droid fights.

 

Manage your force, important for interrupting(not for Jolt, but for other abilities that also interrupt).

 

Interrupt. Watch for the cast/channel bar. It's inevitable that some casts will get through, but with Jolt, Electrocute, Low Slash and Overload and proper force management, most casts won't get through.

 

Talos makes life so much easier than your other companions, you can focus on one mob in a group while the rest go after him due to healing aggro and pick off the rest or grab aggro on everything and make him heal you. If you've kept him geared, he can keep himself healed pretty well.

 

Stun & Run. Against melee, stunning them and creating a distance gap gives Talos time to catch up on healing during a tough fight.

 

Line of Sight(LoS). When fighting ranged mobs, again, stun and find somewhere to hide if the fight is close, It can't shoot you if it can't see you. Obviously you won't be able to do this when there are no objects to hide behind.

[Draemos]

Hey Everyone,

 

SPOILER ALERT- there are some spoilers of the Inquisitor storyline below.

 

A BioWare GM asked that I post this issue here to the forums to see if we can get some community feedback regarding the underpowered nature of the Assassin Deception spec. I have found leveling mine to 50, and buying all the custom mods I can to beef up his abilities as I was leveling, that the Sith Inquisitor Assassin Deception spec is consistently unpowered for the level in comparison to other classes.

 

This has taught me to learn about and to use every single ability the assassin has and when to use it, but it still requires me to be much higher than the level and there are just not enough drops or commendations to equip both me and my companion(s). At 50 I can start decking out everyone with Xalek being the easiest one to deck out in my old gear.

 

So during my 50 level journey, I have found that I always need to be 3 levels higher than the zones I'm going in, especially when fighting gold mobs. At 3 levels higher, the fight is still very tough to win but doable tho companion death almost always occurs. At the level of the mob or 1-2 level above I have found it mostly impossible to win. It took me a while to realize that without the stealth attack combos at the beginning of each of these storyline and boss fights, Deception Spec'd assassins are always at a disadvantage. After a plethora of deaths, I quit trying to fight these mobs outright. I can remember the Vash and Thanaton in the dreamwalking quests as the examples that stand out most clearly.

 

Also for fights where the gold mobs has adds, I always have to kill the adds quickly, then Force Cloak before I die, heal, and then go back for the gold mob. Usually my companion is dead by the time the adds are all finally dead.

 

Has anyone else playing the Deception Assassin run into this issue?

 

The Sith Inquisitor is a wonderful storyline, just wished the Deception Assassin wasn't so underpowered. Please chime in if you've either played or are playing a Deception Assassin Sith Inquisitor. Thanks everyone.

 

We not particularly strong soloers, but I certainly didn't need to out level the content either. Once you get talos, it's easy-street.

[Ghostfayce]

I wish the inquisitor got there healing companion earlier in the game.

 

Completely agree with this. My main is a 42 merc and it's almost no down time at all with Mako. I keep her gear up to date so her heals are insane. I'm leveling an assassin, got him up to 24. It's not really difficult, but definitely a lot harder than leveing a merc with Mako heals. Huge difference.

[Yoblad]

I found leveling to 50 as deception wasn't hard but not easy. I'm a WoW vet and there were quite a few cases where I was thinking "how can they expect someone new to MMO's complete this solo?" It's not something I would do again.

 

Once I hit 50 and started gearing for PvP it became painfully obvious this is where that build was intended to thrive. I'm a healer's worst nightmare and can utterly destroy anything I get the jump on unless they are highly skilled and geared. Even then it's usually a good battle win or lose.

 

TL;DR Deception is the weakest for leveling, go Darkness or Madness unless you like being frustrated. "put on dark charge herr derr" is not the answer since you abandon your primary 'stance' for the build.

[Reyom]

I had no problems for anything. Talos was a godsend when I got him and I'm still using him as my primary companion at 50. Yeah, some of the fights were tough, but I never had to try more than twice to get through. Not sure if I was luckier with gear or what, but all the problems people are stating are there, I didn't run into at all.

[Bahamude]

More BIG spoilers below- you've been warned.

 

I've read what everyone has said and decided to try out a few things. What I noticed is though the balance for most classes is weighted heavier on the main class than the companion, including the Assassin Darkness and Madness specs, the Assassin Deception spec seems to be more dps balanced between player and companion- thereby increasing the reliance on the companion.

 

Please keep in mind this is specifically for the deception spec assassin. What this means is the right companion makes all the difference between beating your opponent or getting beaten. Yes, this is somewhat of a general rule, but even more so for the Deception spec because the deception spec of Assassin standing on its own continues to feel underpowered compared to free standing sorcerers, darkness assassins, bounty hunters, and sith warriors. Dec spec assassins have interrupts and stealth based starter attacks- but those don't enter play right away in some instances- eg. story plotlines. In some of the instances, you should start the battle by using force cloak so you can begin on your terms, not theirs.

 

I found what I had to stop doing was favoring certain companions throughout an entire series of quests because I liked them more or because I geared them more. What I found I had to do was bring out different companions based on the situation and to not be afraid of doing so every few minutes, even swapping out different companions for conversations where I knew they'd like my choices.

 

But what this also means is because the companions will always be undergeared through the game, the Assassin Deception spec will never reach its full potential until much later on or unless you spend a lot of money- which may be the reason we have been given so much money- to buy that overpriced gear. Of course none of this is obvious to anyone just starting out in the game.

 

So here's what my tests found:

 

For very tough single gold or dual silver opponents you want Talos. If there's a whole bunch of little guys shooting from all directions, Talos gets distracted and takes damage. But more importantly, Talos needs to be far enough away from any horrible AOE or he's pretty much dead. In situations where there are multiple opponents and then adds, Talos could die pretty quickly since he can get overwhelmed. But for big single boss fights, if he's far enough away and there's only 1 target, he's your man. He will keep you up if you keep him far enough away and you can hold aggro with Dark Charge and Guard.

 

I used Talos (undergeared) vs Thanaton in the big final fight in the Dark Council chamber and pushed Thanaton far enough away from him with Overload that Talos could keep me up and topped off with health the ENTIRE fight. I tried the fight first with Ashara and Xalek and neither of them could pull it off. In fact, they died around the point where Thanaton stilll had half or a little less than half health and there was no way I could solo him. He just dished out too much damage with his devastating AOE attacks. But with Talos, for 10 minutes I very slowly interrupted Thanaton's casting and chipped away at his health with a fully or almost fully green health bar.

 

In my first fight vs Thanaton on Corellia, Ashara did well, since I could kite him around the room, and she chased him while I used slow and ranged attacks. Against multiple small opponents spread out, Ashara could get to them fast and provide enough of a distraction while I killed off my targets. Ashara was also most useful fighting around or right next to cc'ed targets. As long as you don't break cc, Ashara will focus her attacks without waking anyone up. Ashara also seems to do much better vs ranged attack opponents.

 

I think Khem was a great starting tank but his effectiveness started to wear down around 25-30. He really was becoming less effective unless you geared him. He is the ultimate melee tank vs melee opponents, but was very unhappy vs ranged and died fast. He also had the problem of breaking cc all the time and pulling everyone to attack him. So he's a blunt instrument with a radius of effect. He definitely seems to be the better tank for a sorcerer than a deception melee dps spec.

 

For me, Xalek was the best generalist tank since he could tank melee and ranged equally well. He had more mobility and ranged attacks. His downside is he seems to have a large aggro range and had the same problem I did with taking damage more readily from ranged attackers but he had longer ranged attacks to counter them- something Khem doesn't have. Where Ashara will let a patrol unit get close and then fire before she responds. I've seen Xalek jump out and attack an incoming patrol unit FIRST. So he's more proactive but possibly a bigger loose cannon as a result.

 

Give Xalek defense, absorption, and as much endurance as you can gear him with and he's a pretty decent. He definitely doesn't hold aggro quite as well as Khem but much better than Ashara, so if you need someone to absolutely hold aggro use Khem. But if the opponent is too tough and high dps, Khem will hold aggro till death. Xalek will yield to you eventually and the damage is spread out a bit more.

 

I'll have to gear up Khem more to see if that changes with much better gear but this is what I've been running into so far. Xalek has better dps but a good off tank. Ashara is pure dps with better adaptability vs a spread out group and ranged opponents.

 

Andronikos is a weird one. Assuming you're tanking, it's possible he's the dps version of Talos. He doesn't seem to live too long where large groups are involved. I certainly had less success with him as a general companion. He frequently died from being overwhelmed and he definitely appeared weakest vs melee opponents.

 

So bottom line is, if you play a Deception spec'ed Assassin, your minute by minute companions selection seem to matter more for the deception class spec than others. What this also means is you need to learn your companions' strengths and weaknesses early and gear them accordingly since you will need them more and from what I've experienced there's definitely less of a margin for error than with other classes.

[domwindle]

I personally enjoyed the challenge. Yes there were some frustrating moments, but I'd rather have that than an easy ride to the level cap.

[IkritTOR]

I have a lvl 36 Deception Assassin and I have a heck of a time soloing content. I used Andronikos and Ashara for a while, but once I got through Taris I found that the dps pet is not at all suitable for Deception, especially on boss fights. The issue I find is that you need to be behind a target to cast Maul (which is glitchy anyway), which means that, unless you have Khem Val (or Xalek, I suppose), it is a wasted ability except for Electrocute (1, maybe 2 Mauls if you are fast enough) and Low Slash (1 use). The Deception spec is all about Maul though, and it is disappointing to see that once your companion dies, your strongest skill, except for Assassinate, is almost unusable.

 

Now, in PvP, in my opinion, Deception is awesome. I'm still working on the timing of Maul and the proc that makes it cost less, etc., but I can still wreck in PvP. And I'm sure that a full human team on a Flashpoint or Heroic is amazing, as the tank can just sit there, take damage, and get healed while the Deception Assassin just strikes from behind 24/7. However, I am thinking of swapping back to the Darkness tree I abandoned when I was level 20 for lack of damage and lack of tanking (Khem Val, a tank, is not a suitable companion for a tank). Though I might try the Madness tree for more...reliable damage. At 50, I'll swap back to Deception, because I like the playstyle and it is very fun with other people (in PvP and PvE)

Edited January 18, 2012 by IkritTOR

[Nocorras]

Why the did you use the most irritating font.

[Cowflab]

I have a lvl 36 Deception Assassin and I have a heck of a time soloing content. I used Andronikos and Ashara for a while, but once I got through Taris I found that the dps pet is not at all suitable for Deception, especially on boss fights. The issue I find is that you need to be behind a target to cast Maul (which is glitchy anyway), which means that, unless you have Khem Val (or Xalek, I suppose), it is a wasted ability except for Electrocute (1, maybe 2 Mauls if you are fast enough) and Low Slash (1 use). The Deception spec is all about Maul though, and it is disappointing to see that once your companion dies, your strongest skill, except for Assassinate, is almost unusable.

 

Now, in PvP, in my opinion, Deception is awesome. I'm still working on the timing of Maul and the proc that makes it cost less, etc., but I can still wreck in PvP. And I'm sure that a full human team on a Flashpoint or Heroic is amazing, as the tank can just sit there, take damage, and get healed while the Deception Assassin just strikes from behind 24/7. However, I am thinking of swapping back to the Darkness tree I abandoned when I was level 20 for lack of damage and lack of tanking (Khem Val, a tank, is not a suitable companion for a tank). Though I might try the Madness tree for more...reliable damage. At 50, I'll swap back to Deception, because I like the playstyle and it is very fun with other people (in PvP and PvE)

 

Swap out your companions when the appropriate encounter comes. 1.5 seconds of spawning and Voila, easy soloing.

 

Ashara or Andronikos for easy AoE trash, Khem for gold elites and tough groups, heal companions when you feel lazy. It worked for me, and I promise it'll work for you.

[Bahamude]

More Spoilers below from the end of the Storyline- you've been warned.

 

Well, I started gearing Talos and I've confirmed something a few folks have stated. Talos is the trump card that gets you by all those overpowered gold mobs. And I do mean overpowered- including some of those otherwise unbeatable gold storyline bosses.

 

As a good example and an exercise for those who are curious to test this theory:

 

In Battle for Corellia, right before you fight Ramos- the big bad gold boss, there is a Green Jedi Master (lvl 49 shadow) outside the room. This mob is massively overpowered with a pulsating AOE and ranged combat stun. It doesn't matter which other companion you bring out, the only companion you can use to beat him is Talos. His AOE DOT is devastating and kills fast. The biggest irony here is Ramos is much easier to kill than that Green Jedi Master lvl 49 Shadow. And both are "standard" gold mobs.

 

I have an ideological problem with a game having mobs that are basically unbeatable except wen you use overpowered healing. Why the hell can't I, a Sith Lord, have that kind of ridiculous power? So as Talos gets more and more pimped, his healing ability becomes ridiculously powerful. In fact, if you're good at pulling aggro, as long as you're not pulling too many mobs and can keep the baddies off of Talos, you ARE pretty much on easy street. It doesn't teach you how to play the class at all, but it makes nearly all combats that much easier. Which ironically is why I decided to try not to use him unless I know a mob is otherwise unbeatable. I really do want to be able to play this class correctly.

 

I actually liked it that this class was pretty challenging to play and I thank everyone who replied. Your replies have helped educate me on how this spec was designed and even gave me insight on how the companions do or don't integrate into that plan.

 

It still raises the issue whether it was designed right in places, or whether certain mobs- especially the storyline mobs should be designed as completely overpowered as they are, but maybe that's the point. You're not invincible. And no one ever does anything by themselves.

 

Thanks guys!

[mercilessfire]

I started out in Madness leveling, but I switched to Darkness around the 30s because Khem Val was losing effectiveness every level, and I had to find a way to stay in a fight longer. Deception is a great 50 end-game spec, as it gives you the burst that is awesome in PvP, and gives you a nice DPS rotation in PvE. I used Adronikus and Ashara as they came around, and only when Talos came around did I manage to kill all mobs with no problem (Tankasin + Healer = GG)

[XXThrashteraXX]

Are you guys serious? I had no issues at all while leveling. I was actually in zones where the level req was higher at some points I was leveling in belsavis at 41 and did the first quests with no issues. If you're Deception and not using a tanking companion then of course you will have a hard time.

 

I leveled with Khem Val until I got Xylek I destroyed regular mobs my level and 2 levels higher, Elites would not give me issues just use the abilities you're given. If you let your companion take all the damage Elites will rip them then kill you I would taunt off my companion activate deflect, deal massive damage then have my companion taunt. Not to mention the 1 minute CC or 10 sec if they're droids.

 

I think your issue here is your gear might not be too good. I had mostly mod gear and have artifice as crafting skill so i would always have gear my level. It's either that or you're just not playing right (no insult intended)

 

 

I actually found it easier to roll with a healer companion.

[NDiggy]

I'm only level 38 (Deception) but I haven't had any problems so far. I've been able to solo many 2 man Heroics. Khem Val is my companion of choice and I've only geared up him with quest rewards. My dps output seems good and my burst is great. If I do get into a bad spot Force Cloak is a great reset, or if that is down I can use one of our several CCs and sprint away to safety.

 

Right now I've just finished Taris, and I went back to Alderaan to finish the bonus quests because I had a gray quest in my quest log I couldn't abandon. To my surprise I got through to the bonus section to find all the quests were orange to me. I started these level 40+ quests at level 37 and plowed through them with no problem. One level 41 Elite at the end of a quest line gave me issues, but after two unsuccessful attempts, I used my biochem to make some more med packs (didn't have any my first attempts) to heal my companion and I breezed through that quest as well.

 

One thing I've found that most people take for granted is that interrupts help a lot. They mitigate tons of damage done to you and your companion. Keep an eye on the enemy cast bar. Its hard at first because the UI isn't that great but it gets easier once you get used to it.

 

Assassins have a wide range of tools and are tons of fun. Use all the tools available to you, keep your gear and your companion's gear updated and you should be more than fine.

[Bahamude]

To those having the issues I solo'd her in darkness spec last night at lv 29 then went to Taris and got the lv 33 pet, solo without stims or healpacks. I have used, up till now, only Khem. What issues did you have with the fight?

 

If you read the thread title, you'd see that the discussion is about the Assassin Deception spec NOT the darkness spec. The question being raised is with the Deception spec being underpowered because of the way it's built. The fact you had no problem with the Darkness spec is irrelevant to the discussion.

[Bahamude]

I'm only level 38 (Deception) but I haven't had any problems so far. I've been able to solo many 2 man Heroics. Khem Val is my companion of choice and I've only geared up him with quest rewards. My dps output seems good and my burst is great. If I do get into a bad spot Force Cloak is a great reset, or if that is down I can use one of our several CCs and sprint away to safety.

 

Right now I've just finished Taris, and I went back to Alderaan to finish the bonus quests because I had a gray quest in my quest log I couldn't abandon. To my surprise I got through to the bonus section to find all the quests were orange to me. I started these level 40+ quests at level 37 and plowed through them with no problem. One level 41 Elite at the end of a quest line gave me issues, but after two unsuccessful attempts, I used my biochem to make some more med packs (didn't have any my first attempts) to heal my companion and I breezed through that quest as well.

 

One thing I've found that most people take for granted is that interrupts help a lot. They mitigate tons of damage done to you and your companion. Keep an eye on the enemy cast bar. Its hard at first because the UI isn't that great but it gets easier once you get used to it.

 

Assassins have a wide range of tools and are tons of fun. Use all the tools available to you, keep your gear and your companion's gear updated and you should be more than fine.

 

I think your experience is atypical among many deception spec assassins. May I ask how you're gearing yourself? I was using quest rewards for Khem and it was completely inadequate. Khem was getting destroyed and was often dead before too long. I admit I was using mods for my gear that were more balanced between Endurance and Willpower. Are you going more Endurance heavy or Willpower heavy? Also of the other mod attributes were you focusing on crit, power, surge, etc?

[Aethyriel]

I think your experience is atypical among many deception spec assassins. May I ask how you're gearing yourself? I was using quest rewards for Khem and it was completely inadequate. Khem was getting destroyed and was often dead before too long. I admit I was using mods for my gear that were more balanced between Endurance and Willpower. Are you going more Endurance heavy or Willpower heavy? Also of the other mod attributes were you focusing on crit, power, surge, etc?

 

With Khem all the way til I got Ashara I didn't have any problems either with anything at all as Deception Assassin. Gear from questrewards (motsly bought mods at the end of each planet to keep it up2date), focusing on WP/Crit (nobody needs endurance) and just taking gear for Khem Val when opted to as Qreward, nothing special.

 

I can't see how you would have trouble with anything at all. Send Khem on one mob/the strongest out of stealth, 2 Thrash, Shock, execute, next target, maul, thrash, Execute Khems mob... when he drops < 50% dismiss him, resummon him (mount up/dismount alternatively) and keep tearing through enemies. Now with Ashara the only thing that's different is I don't have to dps her add down, she takes somewhat more dmg when fighting strong mobs/elite though.

 

You can also CC the strong mob in a grp and finish off the other 2-3 mobs or whatever first. Low Slash/Electrocute for Maul when Khems dead/lost aggro, defensive cooldowns if needed, vanish and reg. when things just went terribly wrong. I've just finished Quesh and I have yet to see a problem with Dec. spec... also, on the classquest on Quesh you can fight 3 strong type mobs at once for the bonus.. and that wasn't a problem either, on lv 37.

[Versagen]

Ya, not to troll, but honestly I was mudering **** all the way to belsavis and correllia, than had a hard time because I missed so much exp from stealthing through quests rather than killing trash (Don't mistake that to mean that I had an easy time because i just stealthed all the way to 50, i solo'd all zash and thanatan with NO issues.) On top of wiping out groups of 2 silver elite, 1 reg mob attackers.

 

Someone said it before me, but I think it needs to be reiterated. If your not using a tanking companion (khem val says hello) You're doing it wrong.