Bioware, Marauders need help in PVP

[Cooraan]

It's not that Marauders need a boost (they don't I have a sent, assassins/shadows need it more) its healers need to be checked. I have several screens of players who can post 300k damage + 100k in heals, while me with my assassin puts up 200k dmg on a good day. People say sorcs/sages need to be nerfed, but I see it with troopers/BH, Smugs/Ops as well. It's healers in general.

 

I'm not calling for a nerf on everyone, but right now there is an unbalance between class types. Either give everyone some form of healing skills (something small), or severly decrease the damage done by people speced healing. Because as it stands right now, I wonder why I play a dps class when I could reroll as a class with better healing abilities, and still do the same amount of damage, if not more then.

[memoriesofprey]

We're fine. They just need to fix the resolve system.

[Paxraven]

Personally if they gave the glowstickers some type of "Force Pull" ability it would stop a large amount of the complaining from melee and level the playing field against lightning/tracer spammers. especially in hutball.

 

Failing that fix resolve and make there stuns instant instead of channeled would be good enough.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Paxraven

[Anbokr]

A good marauder needs to work 3x as hard as a good player of any other class. The class isn't brokenly UP, but it could use some help in one of three forms: either A) a small heal B) a stun or C) a knockback. I like the push/charge mechanic much more than pull. The class really needs 1 of these 3, and unfortunately, will probably not get one until an expansion a year or two from now. This class seriously does not need more buttons, I have over 28 hotkeys bound that I use every single minute. Adding a pull, savage kick, and pommel strike simply adds more complexity to an already cluttered rotation that is microintensive. Edited February 3, 2012 by Anbokr

[Vember]

You need to respec. I don't even play marauder but I know you can specs so your dots heal you and your group. You can force leap at 0 range for an interrupt and spec so you can spam your interrupt and destroy healers.

 

That healing is miniscule at best. Without counting the group heals, a Kinetic Shadow in Combat stance will out heal you just from their form proc.

 

On the other hand, I can pop 2.5 k heals on my trooper while laying down 1.8k-2k grav rounds from 30m away at lvl 20 and never run out of resources. Good times.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Vember

[EternalFinality]

The sorc has a small, very inefficient heal they can cast if locked out of their big heal. Mercs have a heal on a 9-second cd they can use if locked out of their main heal. Operatives have no casted heals if locked out their main heal. You make it sound like we have 5 casted heals.

 

I've never seen a Sorc run out of Force, so who cares how inefficient something is. I'm pretty sure they have a channel heal too. And truth be told, I rarely see Operative healers. Always Sorcs and Mercs.

 

The point isn't that you have multiple casted heals, it's that interrupting your heal doesn't stop you from healing.

 

You can trinket their big cc. Obviously you would never trinket their stun, but that only lasts 3 seconds anyway, which isn't even enough to get out of charge range.

 

"Just trinket it" is not the solution and never has been. Cooldown is too long. Besides, the smart ones don't get out of leap range, they settle in at the 10m mark where you can't use it.

Edited February 3, 2012 by EternalFinality

[Qeuzolt]

Reason 5: Two of our most damaging abilities, Pommel strike and savage kick, DO NOT WORK AT ALL IN PVP. No other class has two of their most powrful abilities restricted to PVE. What is the logic for this

 

That's not true, Operatives have the same 2 abilities most classes have at least one.

 

The marauder also does have self healing in-combat, its in the annihilation tree...

 

Do I feel they deserve a small buff yes, I think they should put the root on Ravage in carnage to every spec, and carnage should have the ability changed to allow force choke to be instant like Jugg. That would give the "control" tree the best control, everyone would get a good damage/control ability.

 

The class overall is pretty good in PVP most people that say it sucks usually are badly geared, or incorrectly geared imo.

[IcyFisty]

The problem with marauders isn't that they are broken, it is that the other 2 specs aren't necessarily viable. The general (and there are notable exceptions, like the writer of the Mach 5 guide - Kib) consensus is that annihilation (bleeds) is heads and shoulders the best spec for both PvP and PvE. That isn't right and in fact doesn't make any sense.

[EternalFinality]

The problem with marauders isn't that they are broken, it is that the other 2 specs aren't necessarily viable. The general (and there are notable exceptions, like the writer of the Mach 5 guide - Kib) consensus is that annihilation (bleeds) is heads and shoulders the best spec for both PvP and PvE. That isn't right and in fact doesn't make any sense.

 

This is so damn true. Even at launch when I briefly browsed their forum it was all "Watchmen is best in PvP noobs, burn dps is best I top all warzones"

 

Occasionally you'd get someone arguing for Focus spec instead.

 

EVERYONE appeared to agree Combat sucked.

 

I'm specced combat and think it's amazing. Master Strike rooting your target is huge. Crippling Throw rooting is huge. Temporary 100% armor penetration and auto-crit 2 focus Blade Storm does great damage. Focus generation from combat trance and lower cooldown Zealous strike keeps the abilities flowing.

 

I came to the conclusion that most Sentinels and Marauders are just idiots who like 2 lightsabers. Most Marauders I fight are Watchmen spec. I win 1v1 nearly every time.

Edited February 3, 2012 by EternalFinality

[Jooji]

"Just trinket it" is not the solution and never has been. Cooldown is too long. Besides, the smart ones don't get out of leap range, they settle in at the 10m mark where you can't use it.

 

LOL the smart ones don't run away, they stay close? Really? You're on crack if you think that's the solution as a healer. The CD on your CC break in most specs is only 30 seconds longer than the CD on the CC itself.

[EternalFinality]

LOL the smart ones don't run away, they stay close? Really? You're on crack if you think that's the solution as a healer.

 

Uh. yes? As I said, they really don't care, ESPECIALLY if they're guarded. They move away a bit and keep on truckin. If they're a Sorc they know you can't really stop them anyways.

 

The CD on your CC break in most specs is only 30 seconds longer than the CD on the CC itself

 

My CC is on a 1 minute cooldown. And besides, you're always being CC'd by someone. We're not talking duels here.

Edited February 3, 2012 by EternalFinality

[Xary]

No Marauders/Sentinels are just fine. They are beasts in PvP, have great defensive cooldowns, better stealth ability then Assassin/ops as well as consistent DPS. A well played Mar/Sent is hard for multiple people to deal with let alone one person.

[EternalFinality]

better stealth ability then Assassin/ops

 

When did people start uttering this absurd nonsense? It's 4 seconds. 4 seconds long. Breaks if you do anything. Can be specced to break snares or be invul. (one or the other, and most don't waste points on the former)

 

That's better than a class who can approach in stealth, remain in stealth, and has openers? You're out of your mind.

 

A well played Mar/Sent is hard for multiple people to deal with let alone one person.

 

See, this is where you are completely wrong. As soon as more than one person gets on a Sentinel, they get chain CC'd into oblivion. They are kings of 1v1 combat, until other people notice you. Roots devastates the class. Anyone who is actually coordinating will deal with them accordingly.

Edited February 3, 2012 by EternalFinality

[Weeplol]

Marauders / Sentinels are fine.

 

If you dont wanna play a class that needs more than 3 keybindings, roll Merc.

 

If you think mara dmg is gimped, get gear. Seriously i shred ppl to pieces.

 

If you keep on dying, you're using ALL of your defensive abilities wrong. Learn to use them properly.

 

Regarding your healing concern, this isnt a welfare game (yet). Stop QQing about not having a heal, we don't need it. We shouldnt have it. It makes no sense. Sidenote on this healing topic though, as Annihilation i get the 75k healing medal every single game that goes full time.

 

And cc? Maybe we dont have fancy knockbacks like all other classes, but no need. Force Choke and Intimidating Roar is more than enough. We're supposed to dps, not be a cc-hero.

 

I think you have a horribly wrong idea of what you're class is supposed to be like.

[Jooji]

When did people start uttering this absurd nonsense? It's 4 seconds. 4 seconds long. Breaks if you do anything. Can be specced to break snares or be invul. (one or the other, and most don't waste points on the former)

 

That's better than a class who can approach in stealth, remain in stealth, and has openers? You're out of your mind.

 

That stealth class gets knocked back then spends 5-10 seconds getting back to its target. The marauder simply charges back. Herpderp.

[EternalFinality]

That stealth class gets knocked back then spends 5-10 seconds getting back to its target. The marauder simply charges back. Herpderp.

 

And now you can't use it to escape. Herpderp you're dead.

[pherball]

Reason 1: Absolutely no healing ability. Sure, you can use a stimpack. But almost all other classes, even if they are not healing specced, have some sort of internal healing ability that can be used DURING COMBAT

 

Reason 2: NO CC. Nothing more I can say here except we have no ability to stun/lock/immobilize/push an enemy in PVP; all other classes do.

 

Reason 3: Management is tougher than any other class. We have more keystrokes we have to monitor and we have to monitor not only rage but also fury.

 

1. I can easily get 100k healing as Watchman in WZ's.

 

2. Leap = root (bypasses Resolve)

Stasis = stun

PBAE Mez

Root on heal debuff (bypasses Resolve)

Root on Master Strike (bypasses Resolve)

Snare on Cauterize

Spammable Snare

 

This class has MORE CC than most classes in the game.

 

3. No class in TOR has that high of a skill cap compared to other MMO's (DAoC, EQ, Shadowbane, etc). If you're having issues it's your own skill level that's lacking. Getter better, make macros, or ****.

[PloGreen]

First, please no "You suck," or "Learn to play your class" posts.

 

The fact is that marauders are currently underpowred compared to almost every other class. I say this as someone who has played multiple 50 classes and am basing this observation on survivability, offensive and dfensive capabilities of the class.

 

in PVE they are fine. No problem.

 

However, in PVP, marauders are, frankly, gimped.

 

Reason 1: Absolutely no healing ability. Sure, you can use a stimpack. But almost all other classes, even if they are not healing specced, have some sort of internal healing ability that can be used DURING COMBAT

 

Reason 2: NO CC. Nothing more I can say here except we have no ability to stun/lock/immobilize/push an enemy in PVP; all other classes do.

 

Reason 3: Management is tougher than any other class. We have more keystrokes we have to monitor and we have to monitor not only rage but also fury.

 

Reason 4: Damage is too low vs other classes. Other classes, with healing abilities, deal nearly the same DPS as we do. For lack of a healing ability or the ability for CC, our DPS should be increased considerably.

 

Reason 5: Damage time. Not sure how to phrase this. But on certain attacks like Ravage the damage done to the enemy does not appear until the three second long animation has finished.

 

Reason 5: Two of our most damaging abilities, Pommel strike and savage kick, DO NOT WORK AT ALL IN PVP. No other class has two of their most powrful abilities restricted to PVE. What is the logic for this

 

 

I could think of a few others, but my fingers are tired.

 

Thank you for reading

 

(I am posting this here instead of on the class thread because this is the most read forum on the site)

 

Sorry but you are completley wrong. Geared marauders are deadly. You do not need a self-heal, you have really decent dps and can simply stealth out of the fight. I see this often with good maruaders.

[illmercU]

well. First marauders CAN heal *takes a look at bleeds* second marauders ARE warriors....if you have played any other MMO yuou know what im saying...no stuns nor will you get one. No. no one can match your dps if you can stay on your target. So, you are wrong if you think that other classes can match you in dps. 3rd a warrior is meant to roll with someone who can slow / stun= bh merc or sorc try this. if you get a decent helper you will realize you are top on scoreboard everytime period. And finally...dont waste your break cc on slows and dont waste your jump on closing the distance you know that invis you have??? USE THAT! then when you get knocked back jump on em again. So, in all marauders are awesome you just have to be smarter than an average joe to use one.

[ZakPreston]

Carnage Maras are terrible atm:

1. No combat-heal at all

2. Mediocre damage, have never had 4k+ crits ever.

3. Way too many CDs. It's fine, but pushing so many buttons does not reward me with really good damage or utility.

4. No stuns and pushbacks. No anti-CC insted. Maras fly over the whole map like a teddybear, but not a feared Sith Lord.

5. Extremely squishy while some Cooldowns are up, and has no stealth unlike Ops/assassins.

6. Proc-based ataru-form is a laugh comparing to Juyo.

 

 

Overall Combat Maras can be fixed easilly: give us PUSH or PULL, some sort of anti-cc/pushback and rise damage for 25-35%.

[Apocalypse-]

Only 2 fixes are needed: A full fix of ability stuttering and roots are blocked by (but do not build) resolve.

 

Buff anything beyond that except for 20+ in Carnage/Combat, and you've got yourself a seriously overpowered class. Currently I don't even try in 1v1s, have to make a mistake to lose a 2v1, and don't even hesitate to 3v1 unless there are two healers. In a 8v8 game, I'm perfectly capable of occupying 3 people on the enemy team ALONE. That's insanely valuable on 2/3 of the Warzones, and on Huttball our Transcendence/Predation buff is the most powerful buff available for the objective.

 

Also, to anyone saying that the 2% heal on dot crits is miniscule.... You clearly either failed 7th grade math or just don't pay any attention. At 50% (30% base, 5% smuggler buff, 15% for full Juyo) crit chance on dots and at least one dot ticking per GCD, I average that 2% heal probably 3 out of 4 globals. That's 6% health every 6 seconds. Popping Zen? that's 18% health in under 8 seconds.

 

At the end of the day, Sentinels/Marauders are hard to play. They're outright deadly in good hands. That does NOT mean that they're broken.

[Reichmar]

Bioware, my guild has a mara that does quite fine for himself. I'm sure that you all look more at your metrics than players that whine.

 

These threads are funny.

 

You guys are fine.

[illmercU]

I agree completely with you apocalypse. mauderers can tank the heroics while leveling in bleed spec from the heals they get. The crit chance on bleeds is HUGE their damage is HUGE. people are just do damn stupid to realize things. Like i said in my earlier post you wanna be unstoppable?? Join a game with a ranged who can slow /stun and watch how much better you do. Because in the end Bioware isnt gonna make you OP and give you an outright stun..sorry doing 2-4k a hit on warrior with a 4 sec stun WELL GEE LET ME NUKE EVERYONE!!!

[ZakPreston]

Anni maras are the quintessence of hit-n-run philosophy, they have nothing except high dot-based damage, while Carnage has rootbreaker, 3-sec root and ravage-root. That brings us much more utility.

[mistrfantasy]

IMO, a well played marauder is VERY dangerous in PVP.

 

You said we have no CC's? We have one cc intimidating roar, which can mezz up to 6 ppl for 6 seconds, also there is force choke...., and we have like 6 roots, if spec'd right, deadly throw roots players, so does force charge, ravage also stops them in their tracks. And crippling slash slows them down if landed as well.

 

So basically you have 5 or 6 skills that can root(or make the other player not able to move for some time) If that isn't enough to beat someone down and kill them all while keeping them up close and personal, then I don't know what is.

 

Not to be mean, but you're either not 50 yet with all your skills or just don't know how to play the class.

 

You are the noob if you ever even think about specing into carnage. It's the worst spec for pvp and pve(the pvp damage is easily healed through and the armor on bosses does not scale well carange pve dps). In PVP you either go Rage(juggernaut wannabe) or Annihalation(proper marauder spec), and while those specs has no roots(the 1 sec force charge is not a root), you really don't need roots or cc as a marauder since all our abilities can be used on the go.