Nexusissei Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 ....tool that's capable of telling you what level of gear is capable of allowing a group to defeat an encounter. Sounds to me you are looking for a tool to decide before you start a FP to tell you if the gear of the players is adequate? Why do you need an addon to do this? No, that's not what I'm saying at all. Information and a way to process that information into something meaningful is what I'm asking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seuria Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Let's put it this way. . . You die on a boss. Why did you die? You know the mechanics, everyone worked with them just fine. What went wrong? How, in the end, do we not know the encounter simply isn't overtuned in comparison to similar content? How can one discern a mistake from actual problems with the encounter without the ability to discern your mistakes from Bioware's? I was in the Cata beta and there was a small subset of us who ran the new heroics in that game and pointed out that they were highly tuned compared to Wrath's and that this likely wouldn't work within Blizzard's framework. Given Blizzard's change in direction it looks like we were right. How did we know this, though? Both experience AND the tools available to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astoris Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Whats the point of people decking themselves out in Tionese level gear to do heroics which drop mostly Tionese level gear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexusissei Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 How, in the end, do we not know the encounter simply isn't overtuned in comparison to similar content? How can one discern a mistake from actual problems with the encounter without the ability to discern your mistakes from Bioware's? I was in the Cata beta and there was a small subset of us who ran the new heroics in that game and pointed out that they were highly tuned compared to Wrath's and that this likely wouldn't work within Blizzard's framework. Given Blizzard's change in direction it looks like we were right. How did we know this, though? Both experience AND the tools available to us. Exactly. We're running blind here. It's not very fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSwamper Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 It's not just a question of those who want DPS meters vs those who do not. If you have DPS meters in the game, then some players will not do what is best for the fight at the time, CC, slowing effects, etc., because they are afraid it will affect their precious DPS score. So, in those cases, the DPS meter actually makes people play worse because they prioritize DPS all the time when it's not always a priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidence Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 That's not what this is at all, try again. You sure? I don't really know what to say, there's nothing more to add, this is 100% true on my server so I don't even bother trying to find a group for hard modes anymore because it's always full of green geared bads that keep wiping on bosses and wonder why. Looks like to me people were playing to have fun. And you called them baddies. Maybe if you worded stuff better and didnt come off as a ******e, poeple would understand where you guys are coming from. But when you post stuff like the quote above me, you sound like a ******/tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithicKnight Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 LFM 10 Onyxia, link achievement, must have 389+ GS or don't bother asking, PST! Just... no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexusissei Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Looks like to me people were playing to have fun. And you called them baddies. Most people don't find dying the same way time and time again because you're trying to run the hardest content in the game in the lowest gear possible fun. Edited January 16, 2012 by Nexusissei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almghty_gir Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 gear isn't as important as you think. i pugged hardmode taral V, i invited them to inspect me in my oranges with level 49/50 mods, and then switched to duplicates with lower level mods just for lols. still didn't have a problem tanking. you don't need dps meters, you don't need gear score, neither of those things will tell you who knows how to play and who doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironix Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) The sad thing is that the people complaining about meters and metrics are hampering the balancing of instancing around community concerns. Along with a lack of character copy to the PTR this makes that balancing act solely dependent on Bioware without any meaningful input from the community itself. Good luck guys, you're gonna need it. O.o I simply just assumed Bioware facilitated PTR testing with some sort of character copy or at least the creation of a level 50 char instantly. How in the world are they getting people to test the numerous bugs in end-game content? Is that what the live server is for? =O Edited January 16, 2012 by ironix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stirbend Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 How do you expect me to educate myself if I don't know the amount of DPS or healing being done? Or if that healing and DPS is being done efficiently? So what you're saying is, that you need a tool to tell you what happened on your screen, because you wren't actually paying attention when you were playing? I never needed tools to tell me how efficient i was, that is as plain as day in MMOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfmiolleh Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Gearing up is half the fun. I like to use the upgradable "orange" gear and keep updating the modifications but sometimes a green will drop or I can craft something better than my current item so I wear it. I'm just level 30 though. I don't care about damage neters, threaght meters or anything else. I figure Ill learn to play the game just as the developers intend it to be played. Edited January 16, 2012 by Derfmiolleh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DND_Druid Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Its a game it isnt important, what people have as gear is up to them. Being leetist is abhorant you should be ashamed. Edited January 16, 2012 by DND_Druid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seuria Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 O.o I simply just assumed Bioware facilited PTR testing with some sort of character copy or at least the creation of a level 50 char instantly. How in the world are they getting people to test the numerous bugs in end-game content? Is that what the live server is for? =O That's what I've gathered. It appears to be a complaint over on the PTR forums, unless those people are trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexusissei Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 gear isn't as important as you think. i pugged hardmode taral V, i invited them to inspect me in my oranges with level 49/50 mods, and then switched to duplicates with lower level mods just for lols. still didn't have a problem tanking. you don't need dps meters, you don't need gear score, neither of those things will tell you who knows how to play and who doesn't. uh huh... I believe you! No really! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seuria Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Its a game it isnt important, what people have as gear is up to them. Being leetist is abhorant you should be ahsamed. Wiping over and over because one or two people can't or won't pull their weight isn't all that much fun for some people. The old adage holds true here, "When you group with others and don't do your best before and during that encounter you are inhibiting their fun." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VladMorbius Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 These issues are inherent with all gear progression games which is why gear oriented MMOs will continue to suffer imbalance far more than those that are built around skill sets and not gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neumi Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Totally, How can you expect anyone to have fun if they aren't capable of proving they are the best at the game. Totally agree, even if the thread is about something else. However, having the best of the bestetest is not always necessary to be a good player. I hate the "inspect" feauture in every MMO, it makes people arrogant if they see that someone is not equipped perfectly. As long as the instance succeeds everything's fine, I don't care who has what. And failing sometimes can be fun as well, it's about learning tactics. In the battle gear vs. skill I personally chose the person with skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Templeman Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Let's put it this way. . . You die on a boss. Why did you die? You know the mechanics, everyone worked with them just fine. What went wrong? My advice is to try finding out what went wrong the old fashioned way. First step tends to be asking the healers. I had to deal with that today. We just worked are way up to HK 47 and got handed are backsides. Figuring out why we lost is part of the fun. it makes winning have real value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironix Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 It's not just a question of those who want DPS meters vs those who do not. If you have DPS meters in the game, then some players will not do what is best for the fight at the time, CC, slowing effects, etc., because they are afraid it will affect their precious DPS score. So, in those cases, the DPS meter actually makes people play worse because they prioritize DPS all the time when it's not always a priority. DPS meters make people play worse? Perhaps idiots... Wouldn't that type in my raids anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexusissei Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 My advice is to try finding out what went wrong the old fashioned way. First step tends to be asking the healers. I had to deal with that today. We just worked are way up to HK 47 and got handed are backsides. Figuring out why we lost is part of the fun. it makes winning have real value. How do you determine what was at fault? Was it the healers incapable of healing? Was it too few healers? Was it DPS not being geared enough? Was it DPS not knowing their characters well enough? Was the tank not geared enough? Was the DPS and tank well-geared but the healing the problem? Was the overall item level of the group the issue? Was the healing not efficient enough? These are questions that begged to be answered and cannot be answered subjectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oawe Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 People are joining heroics wearing greens although lvl 49-50 epic items are cheap and plentiful on AH. So...a damage meter = everyone gets blue and purple gear? I get what you're trying to say but damage meters aren't going to 'fix' the issue you're having. Problem: people aren't wearing proper gear. Solution: people should wear proper gear. Just tell people purple > blue > green and that they need at least blue (or whatever your preference is) to do a Heroic. I've never used damage meters but I'm pretty sure those are used strategically in conjunction with your combat abilities and in which order you execute them. It's pretty straight forward that bad gear is bad gear... Not saying damage meters and combat logs are bad, just saying this is not the 'fix' you are looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Templeman Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 No, you misunderstand. For the most part you, as a member of an ops group, would notice nothing different. This could be what I am missing. Can you really not see a difference and hunt down the problem as the game is now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DND_Druid Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Wiping over and over because one or two people can't or won't pull their weight isn't all that much fun for some people. The old adage holds true here, "When you group with others and don't do your best before and during that encounter you are inhibiting their fun." Your point is valid if the content was that hard or death ment anything . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtsdad Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 People are joining heroics wearing greens although lvl 49-50 epic items are cheap and plentiful on AH. They get away with it because there are no DPS meters. It's hard to find good people for PUGs. Please add damage meters to the game to improve the quality of players. Nice try. You "i have to have DPS meter" people are so sad its almost laughable. I had someone in my group one day who said "Man I am having a hard time not having a DPS meter. Im so used to looking at it" And there is the issue. Its nothing more than a crutch or an excuse or a tool to act like an elitist. It is NOT necessary and MMO's and real players have gotten along for years without them. As to you issue just announce when you are looking for a group that you must be properly geared or join a guild. Yes some people dont upgrade their gear and it particularly frustrating when the tank Im trying to heal decides to have sub-par gear but it is what it is. Take your DPS meter lust elsewhere or better yet just learn to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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